Bush has corrupted every institution we have. I guess we should not be surprised to see that he has created an environment in the military that would corrupt it as well. Clearly from this story, the senior military leadership was complicit with Bush in destroying the moral sensibilities of the soldiers under their watch. It is a damn shame.
Posted by Mary at September 24, 2005 12:11 AMBusiness as usual. Mary, the corruption of every institution is not surprising. The President of the United States is immoral and unethical, so the immorality of others is no surprise. Bush has set the standard for corruption, and like any institution, it is merely filtering down.
Posted by Judith at September 24, 2005 05:34 AMHmn Rghts Wtch cn b cntd n t bmn th plght f ny vrmn whl dsrgrdng th trcts prptrtd by thr cmmn cs cmpdrs.
[Editor: ignore=off]This wouldn't still be dribbling out if other corrupt institutions -- the Congress and the media specifically -- had reacted appropriately when Abu Ghraib first broke. Like the low-level grunts caught torturing people, the people who run those institutions were (and mostly still are) handing over their moral compasses to Bushco's authority, following in lockstep every lurch towards totalitarian rule.
When our grandchildren look back on this era, they are going to wonder why so many in positions to curtail Bushco's immoral rampage across the landscape just went along with it. The fact that he was reelected after Abu Ghraib says it all. Even if some swing states were stolen, the election was still close enough to steal. If American institutions had reacted the way Americans like to pretend they do, that wouldn't have been the case.
Capt. Fishback: I am certain that this confusion contributed to a wide range of abuses including death threats, beatings, broken bones, murder, exposure to elements, extreme forced physical exertion, hostage-taking, stripping, sleep deprivation and degrading treatment.
Holy shit.
Posted by dj moonbat at September 24, 2005 07:19 AMIt's a shame when the common soldier gets the blame! We're talking about kids who literally have to ask permission to use the latrine. They are thrown into situations that educated officer's have trouble accepting. It's very likely that NCO's are contributing to these kids failure to have compassion, decency and a sense of humility, but still have the killer (teamwork) instinct. There are still no officer's or high ranking NCO's that have faced persecution, in any scandal.
Please, don't forget Rummy's role!!
We have problems now with Vietnam veterans who can't handle civilian life. Think of what we are going to be looking at in 20 years thanks to all of this.
Posted by rlp at September 24, 2005 09:04 AMRip, the suicide rate will be very high.
Posted by Judith at September 24, 2005 09:23 AMDid any of our soldiers cut the heads off of any assbackward primitive mohammedan throat cutters? No? Let me know once they do then we will consider listening to liberal sniveling about “abuses”.
Posted by Apollyon at September 24, 2005 01:22 PMIudith,
Yes, it will, along with the violent crime rate, child abuse rate, spousal abuse rate resulting in a high divorce rate. All of the negitive numbers are going to be higher than they otherwise would be.
Appolyon,
I didn't even mention P.O.W. abuses. What makes you think that occuping another culture's land is going to get you anything except a gurrella war? What we have now is so predictable one would have to be a neocon not to see it coming. Even, traditional conservatives are starting to openly disagree with this war.
Posted by rlp at September 24, 2005 01:53 PM"I didn't even mention P.O.W. abuses. What makes you think that occuping another culture's land is going to get you anything except a gurrella war?"
rlp,
How did we win WWII?
How were wars won throughout human history?
Are you aware that MacArthur had to rule Japan for 7 years without terrorists hampering the reconstruction? The fact that we are this far along in such a short period of time is remarkable. Over the last 15 years more soldiers died on average in training accidents than in the theatre of war. Why do you suppose the media leaves out this critical figure? We both know the answer.
rlp,
The "average" I am referring to is a daily average.
Posted by Apollyon at September 24, 2005 02:22 PMTorture is wrong, no matter what the other side is doing, one can assume that the people doing it are enjoying it, it is not the act of civilized humans.
Posted by old ari at September 24, 2005 06:05 PMold ari,
Torture is wrong, I agree. But sometimes it is necessary. There may have been some isolated incidents, but the media portrayed it is as a Communist Vietnam slave labor camp. That is my objection. Also, that liar at Newsweek, Michael Isikoff, fanned the flames by printing a bullsh!t story that was disseminated worldwide. Once the Muslims got wind of the lie they decided the best thing to do was riot and kill one another…..Man, they need some recreational sports. Hell, we should send Ron Reagan over there to teach them something calming like ballet dancing.
Are you aware that MacArthur had to rule Japan for 7 years without terrorists hampering the reconstruction?
The key term is "Without terrorists hampering the reconstruction." This isn't Japan in 1950, al Qaeda isn't going to go away. Millions of young moslems percieve America as an oil thirsty occupier who wouldn't even be interested in the area if it weren't for the internal combustion engine.
Over the last 15 years more soldiers died on average in training accidents than in the theatre of war. Why do you suppose the media leaves out this critical figure? We both know the answer.
We've been in Iraq for two and a half years or about 900 days, we've lost 1913 troops as of friday. That's slightly over a two deaths a day average. If we've been losing on average more than two solders a day in training accidnets then where have the congressional investigators been? Why hasn't there been an outcry about the incompetent wasting of our youth in such a manner? Yes, we both know the reason the media leaves out this number and that's because it isn't true.
Apollyon,
In case you need me to do the math for you from the link here goes: 250 total deaths by motor vechicles during the 10 year period 1994-2004. They account for 19% or about one fifth of all military training deaths. 250 x 5 = 1250. Ten years=3652 days. The average is about one death every three days, a far cry from over two a day. The statistics don't lie.
Posted by rlp at September 24, 2005 10:54 PMThe key term is "Without terrorists hampering the reconstruction." This isn't Japan in 1950, al Qaeda isn't going to go away. Millions of young moslems percieve America as an oil thirsty occupier who wouldn't even be interested in the area if it weren't for the internal combustion engine.
rlp,
8 million Iraqis completely disagree with that view. When they came out and voted for their right to live democratically it rejected the islamofascists theocratic dreams. It is a small minority of rodents running around with Kalashnikovs. The Iraqis control their oil and we, along with many other countries, buy it from them. Do you have information to the contrary?
In case you need me to do the math for you from the link here goes: 250 total deaths by motor vechicles during the 10 year period 1994-2004. They account for 19% or about one fifth of all military training deaths. 250 x 5 = 1250. Ten years=3652 days. The average is about one death every three days, a far cry from over two a day. The statistics don't lie.
That article discusses statistics only based on the ARMY. I'm talking about the average based on all the armed forces- ARMY, NAVY, MARINES, and AIR FORCE. We can also add National Guard and Coast Guard.
When they came out and voted for their right to live democratically it rejected the islamofascists theocratic dreams.
The most successful parties in the election were Shiite clerical parties. This is a part of the reason that Sunni resistance has grown scince the election.
BYW, "islamofascism" is an oxymoron. Fascism is a secular form of dictatorship that manipulates the dominant religion of a country to justify militarism and its own corrupt rule. Fascism has only been around as an ideology for about 100 years. Theocracy in various forms, has been around scince the earliest days of civilization.
The sunni's do NOT seek a theocratic state. They regard themselves as the heirs to Mesopotamian culture and heritage. They are historically the most educated and westernized of the Iraqi groups look at the Shiite's as, to use an American term, unlettered hicks.
It is a small minority of rodents running around with Kalashnikovs. The Iraqis control their oil and we, along with many other countries, buy it from them. Do you have information to the contrary?
And they're all going to become prosperous, westernized and share the oil equally.
NICE DREAM-The reality is not so pretty. Read the Juan Cole article here. It's a credentialed, scholarly view from one who origionally supported the war but whose expertese has led him to change his mind.
That article discusses statistics only based on the ARMY. I'm talking about the average based on all the armed forces- ARMY, NAVY, MARINES, and AIR FORCE. We can also add National Guard and Coast Guard.
Where do you think that 69% of all training casulties come from?
O.K. then, we'll add 50% to the above number and 1250 becomes roughly 1900. The result is that we now have one death every two days instead of every three. That's still a death rate at least 50% lower than your origional claim.
There's also the fact that the mortally wounded are moved out of Iraq to other medical facilities so that they aren't officially counted as combat casulties.
Posted by rlp at September 25, 2005 03:07 PM Conyer's Blog
Conyer's Action Items
In U.S. Report, Brutal Details of 2 Afghan Inmates' Deaths - By Tim Golden
Why is the Confederate flag waving in Afghanistan - very indepeth article with sad articles. TheDoodAbides.com has action steps under ETHCIAL BISCUTIS about medical personneld involved in the torture, clear violation of their oath and grounds for having medical licence taken away.
~~~NYT, U.S. Torture and Alibi Journalism
By Tim Golden with editorial comment by Les Blough
May 21, 2005, 21:40
Editor's Note: The New York Times published the article below in their International Edition. It is telling that we were unable to find it in their editions for U.S. consumption. It is a report on the unspeakable torture and killing of Afghans - victims of a rogue U.S. military - sent to Afghanistan by a rogue, terrorist government under the leadership of George Walker Bush and his pschotic, neocon advisors.
It is not only the torture and brutality that must be exposed. Just as important is the fact that the New York Times published this article at all. After providing direct support for Bush's "War on Terrorism" and the invasion and destruction of Afghanistan and Iraq for the past 4 years the corporate media has been trying to wipe blood from its hands.
As early as November 2, 2003, only 2 years after the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan and 8 months after the invasion of Iraq, I wrote The Corporate Media abandons the sinking Ship-of-Fools in Washington. Even then, we could see the NYT, Washington Post and other corporate media begin to publish smatterings of articles, critical of the invasions. But no token criticisms will ever redeem them for their journalistic crimes. Henk Ruyssenaars is a senior foreign correspondent, and editor/publisher of Foreign Press Foundation. He has aptly named this corproate media strategy, "Alibi Journalism".
Yes, the depraved behavior of the U.S. military toward their prisoners of war is criminal, dishonorable and repugnant. But the sleight of hand by this crooked, deceptive media, slipping away from their responsibility, is in some ways even more nauseating. One is just as culpable as the other and forget about the coming judgement of history - the world at large has already pronounced their condemnation of both. - Les Blough, Editor......
Appolyan - Isn't that another name in the Book of Revelations for the devil, like Chertkoff in Russian? There was a real reconstruction in Japan and Europe including Germany - Halliburon just steals the money, still no rebuilding of infrastructure that GE, Carlyle and other war profiteers bombed to hell. Hallibuton gives contaminated, untreated water and unsanitary food to combats soldiers and the American people and Congress don't say a word. Soldiers are still being required to buy their own body armor and cannot affort adequate armor or armored Humvess which would have cut US soldiers deaths by 1/4. What are we doing there but building 14 permanent military bases and stealing Iraqi oil.. The Iraqis had nothing to do with 911 and even bush and his commission said so.
Conyer's Blog
~~~Description
Every day they bring to us from Iraq our son's bodies in a war with no meaning and with only one target which is the satisfaction of Mr. Bush Mr. Bush, who pushes our country to a new vietnam he said that the reason of that war is to get out saddam from Iraq but it seems that oil was the target.And what is the price, it is the blood of our son's which are killed daily on hands of iraqi resistance, it is our country resources which decrease day by day , but unfortunately bush administration controls the media
In our country today the news of our defeat is faked into victory & only the filled half of the glass is shown Please participate to stop the misleading and share us to stop blood and money bleeding.And please if you have an answer to this question please do "for whom thousands of our son's die in a war only for Mr. Bush satisfaction?"
I think that most of you will not believe me when I inform you that more than 28.000 soldiers have been killed in Iraq but this is what I have been seeing in the Arab news channels And the films that transmitted by the terrorists on those channel and on the internet that shows their operations in Iraq documented by video, beside some friends of mine confirmed these informations from there friends that are fighting in Iraq and that they are living in a hell .
The terrorist's operations range is between 80 to more than 100 operations daily in Iraq and at least 85% are effective & has deadly casualtys. to confirm truth of these claims there was several sites that were established by me before and it has been removed, you can guess of course by whom? To make sure of what i am saying And to make you watch and feel how our soldiers live in iraqi hell I will bring to your own eyes the visible evidences, documents and scenes from this daily hell that confirm this.
~~~The New Ernie Pyles: Cbftw and Sgtlizzie
On Internet Blogs, Soldiers in Iraq Offer Up Inside Story on the War
BAGHDAD -- "There were no reporters riding shotgun on the highway north of Baghdad when a roadside bomb sent Sgt. Elizabeth LeBel's Humvee lurching into a concrete barrier. The Army released a three-sentence statement about the incident in which her driver, a fellow soldier, was killed. Most news stories that day noted it briefly.
But a vivid account of the attack appeared on the Internet within hours of the crash last Dec. 4. Unable to sleep after arriving at thehospital, Le Bel hobbled to a computer and typed 1,000 words of what she called "my little war story" into her Web log, or blog, titled "Life in this Girl's Army."
At least 200 active-duty soldiers currently keep blogs . . . according to "The Mudville Gazette", a clearinghouse of information on military blogging administered by an Army veteran who goes by the screen name Greyhawk.
In late July, Arizona National Guard Spc. Leonard Clark . . . was fined $1,640 and demoted to private first-class for posting what themilitary said was classified material on his blog.
His postings -- which included long entries detailing attacks against American patrols and convoys -- described his company's captain as "a glory seeker" and the battalion sergeant major as "an inhuman monster."
"A growing number of men here are starting to wonder why we should continue to risk our lives for this whole mess when we know that the government will probably pull out of here," he wrote on April 11.
cbftw.blogspot
Colby Buzzell, a soldier who during his 12-month tour of duty started a blog called "My War" ( was months into his deployment when he read a magazine article about blogs and decided to give it a try."
~~~08 06.2005 Jeff Norman
"Mr. Secretary, Military Families Think You're Lying to Them. Why Won't You Meet with Them?"
Tonia Young
Gold Star mom Nadia McCaffrey wound up her Southern California visit yesterday by attending Donald Rumsfeld's speech at the Beverly Hilton Hotel in Beverly Hills. The Secretary of Defense spoke before a capacity audience at a luncheon presented by the Los Angeles World Affairs Council.
Rumsfeld continued to dismiss reports that prisoner abuse by American military personnel is widespread. He praised his subordinates for "conducting investigations," and claimed the torture problem has been solved. Rumsfeld insisted recent news coverage of prior incidents only makes it seem "like it's new allegations."
Nadia, whose son Patrick was killed in Iraq in June of 2004, attempted to approach Rumsfeld to ask him about what she believes are his various inconsistent statements, but was blocked by security. In an interview after the event, she told me the military leadership has failed to protect troops with adequate equipment that is readily available. "We have thousands of M113 armored vehicles sitting in storage," Nadia complained. "Why has Rumsfeld decided only recently to ship them to Iraq?" (Although Stars and Stripes reported on January 4 that M113 personnel carriers would finally be transported to Iraq, it has not been confirmed that the vehicles have actually arrived and are in use.)
Dana and Frances from CODEPINK interrupted Rumsfeld's speech and tried to unfurl a banner while telling the Secretary that he had "lied" to the American people. They were immediately dragged out of the ballroom.
As Rumsfeld was leaving the event after his speech, I took a few steps out of the media area where I had been sitting, and said to him,
"Mr. Secretary, military families think you're lying to them. Why won't you meet with them?" The Secretary ignored me as two men who appeared to be Secret Service agents aggressively removed me from the premises. I know of no other instance in which government agents have been used to physically assault a reporter for mildly questioning a public servant. None of my media brethren have so far come to my defense, despite the possibility they could be similarly bullied merely for doing their jobs.
The strategy of intimidating journalists is futile, because even hawks now recognize Rumsfeld lacks credibility. On his Fox News TV show Wednesday night, Bill O'Reilly revealed, "I don't have any confidence in Donald Rumsfeld at this point...I don't think he's leveling with the American people."
The effort to hold the Bush administration accountable continues tomorrow in Crawford, Texas at the vacation home of President Bush. Members of Gold Star Families for Peace plan to confront the President about why U.S. forces are still occupying Iraq, and ask him to explain exactly why he believes the mission is a "noble cause." According to Gold Star founder Cindy Sheehan, the families will stay "until we are arrested or satisfied with the answers."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/jeff-norman/mr-secretary-military-_5213.html
Posted by Rosa at September 26, 2005 05:33 AM