Would thing really have been better under John Kerry? Most of my Canadian friends think that your country is in fact under the control of corporations and the military industrial complex and whoever gets the top job is irrelevant.

Patrick, you and your Canadian friends are probably right. Are ex-Americans welcome in Canada?

Absolutely Judith, in fact, I'm about to marry one!

Most of my Canadian friends think that your country is in fact under the control of corporations and the military industrial complex and whoever gets the top job is irrelevant.

The central consensus is, in fact owned by The Complex. But when dems are running the show, The Complex makes fewer efforts to make day-to-day life into a crushing, unbearable struggle for everybody but the upper .5%. It's a safe bet, for example, that a Kerry administration would not even have considered throwing out wage regulations for construction workers in the wake of Katrina; for the GOP, it would be shocking if they didn't.

Kafka Does Iraq: The Disturbing Case of Abdul Amir Younes Hussein

The disturbing case of Abdul Amir Younes Hussein, the CBS cameraman who has been detained by U.S. forces in Iraq for over five months without a shred of evidence being publicly presented against him, has taken yet another bizarre turn. On September 12, CBS News was informed that a hearing scheduled for September 22 had already been held -- without Hussein, his lawyer, or anyone from CBS News in attendance. Then, on Tuesday, came word that the CRRB had decided to keep Hussein locked up, with no review of his case for another six months. It's an outrage...
(Story over at Huffingtonpost.com)

Don't you just love it. CBS, NBC, etc., are finding out that their support and enabling of this Administration has few rewards in reality. Welcome to Bush's World CBS.

Interesting comments on the Complex. I've managed to read more of "Impearial Hubris" dispite the feeling of near deperssion it brings.
When discribing how al Quieda sees it enemy compaired to North Vietnam 30 years ago, it is noted that the American value system has changed. Namely, the Vietnamese made the war too costly in human life for the Americans to stay. People didn't want their kids drafted and killed in an unending war. Al Quieda sees America as valuing money above all else and their plan is to drain the U.S. of wealth to the point the powers that be are no longer willing to pay for the war. Unlike the North Vietnamese, Al Quieda doesn't care what the average American thinks for they believe that the common people don't matter in this country.

Been watching the anti-war protest on C-Span. Must have 2,000 people there. Wow. What a large rally. Hope those buses make it in from NY to bump the number up to 4-5,000.

So far I've seen support for the Palestians, the Cuban government, and communists. Apparently ending racism doesn't apply to Israel.

This is why you guys are losing elections and will continue to lose elections.

The real truth (or lack thereof), you are full of crap. The March in DC is huge, although I am sure the media will fraudulantly report small numbers, if they report on it at all. Two thousand. Oh, please!

Any simple protest against the Bu$h Administration will suffice!

D.:

But when dems are running the show, The Complex makes fewer efforts to make day-to-day life into a crushing, unbearable struggle for everybody but the upper .5%.

Yeah? How do they do that? By giving money away to people who didn't earn it?

I know one government program I'd support unconditionally: paying terminally poor women to undergo free tubal ligations. Ten thousand a head so that it gets their attention.

And no more illegal immigration, either.

The so-called real truth is a liar, I'm looking at the live footage right now and the number is closer to 20k than 2k. No Cubans or other "commie" signs on my TV.

"The Real Truth" - you're stupid. And predictable.

The real real truth is, EVERYBODY wants out of Iraq.

CORRECTION: It was just announced that the rally is counting 250k in attendance. Well, at least I was correct in that the number is closer to 20k than 2k.

Rlp,

I wasn't referring to the signs. I'm actually LISTENING to what they are saying. Turn your ears on. They've een talking about Palestine for 30 minutes now. I knew the left was anti-Bush but I had no idea it was so anti-semitic (people were applauding the anti-Israel speeches).

And C'mon, there are not 20k people there (and even if there were, that's not a large number to have after all the media buildup the last month). Get a dose of reality.

I wish the media would report this rally. It would help us a lot more than you.

Now it's 250k???? LOL.

Guess those buses from NY finally came carrying all those 200,000 people!

BTW, what source does that number come from? Daily Kos or DU?

These camera angles they're using on CSPAN are extremely deceptive. Why aren't they showing what the turn-out is really like?

I'll give the wrong-wingers this much: it would be nice if a group like ANSWER wasn't always involved in these things. Why doesn't somebody else step up?

wm rivers pitt:

"more than 600k"
"Huge is an understatement"
"the largest march I have seen in the over two decades"
"a wall of humanity"
cops "are scrambling to control the size of this thing."

http://truthout.org/campcaseydc.shtml

So called real truth - Your arguement that being pro palestinian rights is the same as being anti semetic is stupid and false. I have many Jewish friends, but I have little respect for the government and policies of the state of Israel. They are the true racists. Palestinians can' vote in their homeland! Just becauseI despise the Bush administration and what they've done to our beloved country does not mean I hate America. Get it? It's really that simple. Try thinking a little harder before you make a fool of yourself again.

Now it's up to 600k? Can't you guys make up your mind? Of course it's from that non-partisan site for Cindy Sheehan.

If you had stopped at 20k I might have believed you.

You guys are devoid of any reality whatsoever.

Yeah? How do they do that? By giving money away to people who didn't earn it?

What are you ranting about now?

Yeah? How do they do that? By giving money away to people who didn't earn it?

You got it. That would be the war profiteers. We're talkin' BILLIONS baby!

To Oaklander:

You disproved your own argument that being pro-patestine is not anti-Israel by calling Israel racist.

BTW, I did not use the words anti-american. I said anti-Bush. Nice little liberal trick but it doesn't fly. The only people who have used that phrase are Dem's talking about Bush. You are the one who is not thinking very hard.

And Israel is not responsible for for the fact that Palestinians can't vote. They were offered major consessions in 2000 when Clinton was in office and Arafat rejected it.

Despite your best attempt, your anti-semiticism shines thru.

You guys are devoid of any reality whatsoever.

We're not the ones advocating the continuation of an unwinnable war. It's unrealistic to believe that a continued occupation of moslem lands will not continue to create gurrella fighters. The military connection of the U.S. to Israel does not help, but even if Israel didn't exist it would not change the basic problem the U.S. has with the moslem world under current circumstances.

Are the filthy hippies in Cindy Sh!tcans caravan of babbling fools going to make their way here to Los Angeles? I sure hope so.

So called truth - Name calling becomes you so well. It's definately your strong suit so stick with it, because your logic sucks. And of course I know you didn't use the words anti American (notice the capitalization), but don't hide behind that. We know you hate us. It's easy to see. It's really a laugh when neo-con nut jobs accuse liberals of being racist. LOL Keep it up though. I love a good laugh.

I guess that Apollyon has fantisies of dirty, uninhibited hippie girls.

argus,

I try and stay away from Berkeley granola chics. I like girls that shave their armpits and legs.

We know you hate us. It's easy to see. It's really a laugh when neo-con nut jobs accuse liberals of being racist. LOL Keep it up though. I love a good laugh.

We all know libturds aren't racist; the comments below are just aberrations, right? Riiiight.....

"Is you their black-haired answer-mammy who be smart? Does they like how you shine their shoes, Condoleezza? Or the way you wash and park the whitey's cars?" -- Song from the show of left-wing radio host Neil Rogers

Blacks and Hispanics are "too busy eating watermelons and tacos" to learn how to read and write." -- Mike Wallace, CBS News.

"You f*cking Jew b@stard." -- Hillary Clinton to political operative Paul Fray. This was revealed in "State of a Union: Inside the Complex Marriage of Bill and Hillary Clinton" and has been verified by Paul Fray and three witnesses.

"The Jews don't like Farrakhan, so they call me Hitler. Well, that's a good name. Hitler was a very great man. He rose Germany up from the ashes." -- Louis Farrakhan (1984) who campaigned for Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney in 2002

"Now that nation called Israel, never has had any peace in forty years and she will never have any peace because there can never be any peace structured on injustice, thievery, lying and deceit and using the name of God to shield your dirty religion under his holy and righteous name." -- Louis Farrakhan who campaigned for Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney in 2002, 1984

'Hymies.' 'Hymietown.' -- Jesse Jackson's description of New York City while on the 1984 presidential campaign trail.

"Jews — that's J-E-W-S." -- Democratic state representative Bill McKinney on why his daughter Cynthia lost in 2002

"There are white ni**ers. I've seen a lot of white ni**ers in my time." -- Former Klansman and Current US Senator Robert Byrd, a man who is referred to by many Democrats as the "conscience of the Senate" in March of 2001

"The Medicaid system must have been developed by a white male slave owner. It pays for you to be pregnant and have a baby, but it won't pay for much family planning." -- Jocelyn Elders

The white man is our mortal enemy, and we cannot accept him. I will fight to see that vicious beast go down into the lake of fire prepared for him from the beginning, that he never rise again to give any innocent black man, woman or child the hell that he has delighted in pouring on us for 400 years." -- Louis Farrakhan who campaigned for Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney in 2002, City College audience in New York

"There's no great, white bigot; there's just about 200 million little white bigots out there." -- USA Today columnist Julienne Malveaux

"We have lost to the white racist press and to the racist reactionary Jewish misleaders." -- Former Rep. Gus Savage (D-Illinois) after his defeat 1992

"White folks was in caves while we was building empires... We taught philosophy and astrology and mathematics before Socrates and them Greek homos ever got around to it." -- Rev. Al Sharpton in a 1994 speech at Kean College, NJ, cited in "Democrats Do the Dumbest Things

"The white race is the cancer of human history." -- Susan Sontag

"Reparations are a really good way for white people to admit they're wrong." -- Zack Webb, University Of Kentucky NAACP

I have many more......

"Are the filthy hippies in Cindy Sh!tcans caravan of babbling fools going to make their way here to Los Angeles? I sure hope so."

Here dear fellow liberals is the level of intelligence of our opposition. Another idiot troll.

That's it Judith, just keep regurgitating your spoon fed drivel.

My goodness but the trolls are angry today. It must be hard to see the administration you've blindly trusted for so long getting ready to implode at the same time as the biggest anti-war protest since the 1060s takes Washington. Go watch some re-runs of Happy Days, that should help.

Wow. Good luck with that liberals = racists line. I'm sure you'll get real far with that.

Anon,

Nothing to say about the comments I posted? Typical.

ann,

Haven't you been muttering the same nonsense for the last 5 years? Keep it up. The entertainment value libturds provide is priceless.....

Well Anonymous, my family, who has voted D as long as they have lived are switching party's since the whole Katrina fiasco. They live there, they saw what Nagin and Blanco were doing first hand and they called it incompetence. So keep smoking the pipe or pole, whichever you prefer. By the way, WHEN did you say the last time you won an election was? Oh yah, I have been a conservative black man forever. I did not want to subscribe to the handout lifestyle like that in NOLA, or Oakland, or Inglewood, ... or ... or ....DC. I wanted more so according to your posters I must be in that top .5%. Unfortunately not yet, but sometime soon.

Wow, this new Appolonia chick is one seriously twisted wingnut.

So keep smoking the pipe or pole, whichever you prefer.

ah, now it's homophobia. poor wingnuts, you're really stressed out today!

dj batsh!t,

Shouldn't you be licking your transgendered lover’s genitals? Get to work libturd, duty calls and you're the limp wristed camel sodomite for the job.

What can I say? I'm a lazy, lazy _____.

I wanted more so according to your posters I must be in that top .5%. Unfortunately not yet, but sometime soon.

There you have in two sentences the essence of a useful dupe.

Ton,

No they're not going to let you into their club and your skin color is only part of the reason.

To Oaklander:

I have a simple question for you: Do you believe Israel has a right to exist as a nation? Yes or No. No BS answers or spin.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/09/24/antiwar.ap/index.html

Police Chief Charles H. Ramsey, noting that organizers had hoped to draw 100,000 people, said, "I think they probably hit that."

A few hundred people in a counterdemonstration in support of Bush's Iraq policy lined the protest route near the FBI building. The two groups shouted at each other, a police line keeping them apart.

Ramsey said the day's protest unfolded peacefully under the heavy police presence. "They're vocal but not violent," he said.
---------------

Perhaps "the real turd" will say that CNN is part of the "liberal controlled media" ???

No they're not going to let you into their club and your skin color is only part of the reason.

Hey ignoramus, can you say Condi Rice? Collin Powell? Rod Paige? Bush has appointed blacks to some of the highest positions in our country.

On the "tolerant" left you have morons like Howard Dean making racist jokes about blacks in kitchens.

Which black individuals did Clintonista appoint to his cabinet?

The whole world waits for your answer.....

In the meantime you can read the litany of racist quotes I posted from libturds and try to explain to No Uncle Tom how you're the part of tolerance (LOL!!).

Nothing to say about the comments I posted? Typical....mmm the right wingers are testy....sorry Apollyanna, we can't stoop that far down.....even dingbat Tubby Pusstoes is out....hmmm...by the time the hurricanes are done we can move the Iraq Civil War back on to page 1.....how long until Shrub stumbles drunk off Air Force One?...so much to look forward to!

Rlp:

"We're not the ones advocating the continuation of an unwinnable war. It's unrealistic to believe that a continued occupation of moslem lands will not continue to create gurrella fighters. The military connection of the U.S. to Israel does not help, but even if Israel didn't exist it would not change the basic problem the U.S. has with the moslem world under current circumstances."

First of all, you're proving my point about not dealing in reality. Having an election in January and voting on a constitution next month isn't exactly losing the war. If we were really losing then NO progress would have been made politically in Iraq. I'm glad you weren't around in June of 1944 during D-Day. You would have been calling a halt to WW2 because we were losing.

Second, I doubt you had much to say when Bill Clinton "invaded" Muslim lands during his administration. The US is the country that has HELPED Nuslims in the last 12 years. You tell me who else has helped them. Did Saddam? How about Arafat? And don't forget Muslosivich (however you spell it). What Bush is doing in Iraq is no different than Clinton stopping the ethnic cleansing of Muslims in Bosnia and Somalia. Both "invasions" were correct.

BTW, we have still have military in Bosnia and Somalia. Did you criticize Clinton for that?

Haven't you been muttering the same nonsense for the last 5 years? Keep it up. The entertainment value libturds provide is priceless.....

Oh, the trolls are angry, ANGRY. They have the house, the senate, the WH and the press, but they're still angry.

It funny, though, I always thought that Bush & Co would get away with it all. All the lying, cheating, cronysim, etc. I figured they would just plant WMDs in Iraq when they couldn't find them. I never imagined that if they were going to pack the WH press corps with GOP friendly reporters they'd picked a guy who had been a gay escort. I never once thought that after 9/11 Bush would appoint a former horse show judge to head FEMA after running a campaign saying he could keep Americans safe. Nope, I thought they were smart enough to cover their tracks. But they're just like the guys at Enron - they think they're smarter than everyone else and can get away with it. But you know, even the guys at Enron got caught. Even if they never serve a day in prison, everything they ever worked for is lost now. They will never have the power and prestige that they one had because they are so stained by scandal that no one will ever have anything to do with them again. I see Bush & Co. going down the same way. It's all about the hubris.

at,

Personally I'm not angry. Actually, I was just commenting a few days ago that I want to thank Bush for driving libturds stark raving mad. Don't mistake lambasting libturds as anger, it's a sport. While you guys are doing drugs and sodomizing one another we have a lot fun at your expense.

Well, well, fellow LCer's. If the trolls are representative of the GOP, they know that Bush is toast no matter what they say-their actions speak volumes.

Well, well, fellow LCer's. If the trolls are representative of the GOP, they know that Bush is toast no matter what they say-their actions speak volumes.

Yaaaaawn.........

We've heard the same tripe in 2000, 2002, 2004 and soon to be 2006.

Hmm, approval ratings in the seventies are the same as approval ratings in the thirites? Of course, it's your fundamentalist rhetoric. Everything is the same. If you cut your finger, it's the same as cutting off your hand.

Silly, trolls. Past behavior is no indication of future success. Bush has another failure and the trolls will make apologies for him. Being a Bush apologist is hard work, I guess.

to at,

Rearding the Wmd's: (Imagine me whisperingthis to you) - Saddam used them on his own people. But don't let that little fact get in the way of your fantasy.

BTW, you may want to check out 60 minutes (that conservative show ya know) tomorrow. Pakistani officials are stating that Saddam moved the wmd's to Syria and Lybia before we dethroned him. And we all know Pakistan is and always has been pro-US.

As far as being angry, I'm not. You just don't like it because some evil conservatives have come to your little website and are interuppting you fantasy world.

BushCo can demonstrate their incompetence, neglicence and corruption over and over again, but somehow its always the fault of liberal racist sodomites. In-fucking-credible.

To Ga6thDem,

And the sun might come up in the west tomorrow morning too.

Why wouldn't we think Bush et al were going to win next year. They've done it every year for 15 years!!! And the margins are getting bigger.

In 1990, you guys controlled the WH, Senate, the House, most state governorships and the courts. You've lost all but the court and that's rapidly slipping thru your fingers.

Now, who's the failure here?

While you guys are doing drugs and sodomizing one another we have a lot fun at your expense.

Bitter, angry trolls. Must cast aspersions on purported "liberal" character in order to make themselves feel better.

And we all know Pakistan is and always has been pro-US.

Is that supposed to be irony, or are you actually trying to be serious?

Saddam moved the wmd's to Syria and Lybia

Holy crap, how can it be that after all these months, you dimwits are still falling for the same regurgitated b.s., over and over again?

You poor, simple fools!

To Junkie,

I beleive that he was assuming your alias name was representative of you real like actions. If you don't like that, then change your alias (may I suggest DemFlunkie, which is more accurate).

Rearding the Wmd's: (Imagine me whisperingthis to you) - Saddam used them on his own people. But don't let that little fact get in the way of your fantasy.

Yes, and after Gulf War I, he was forced to get rid of them. That's why the inspectors couldn't find them. That's why our forces couldn't find them. That's why he never used them again after Gulf War I.

BTW, you may want to check out 60 minutes (that conservative show ya know) tomorrow. Pakistani officials are stating that Saddam moved the wmd's to Syria and Lybia before we dethroned him. And we all know Pakistan is and always has been pro-US.

Let me get this straight....you trust Pakistani officials to tell the truth? And even after the story about the report about GWB's Texas Air Guard MIA tour, you still believe 60 Minutes? Wow, you are a free thinker. Believe it when it suits your ideology, dismiss it when it refutes your tiny little world view. Wonder who Karl Rove knows in Pakistan who he could get to leak this one.

As far as being angry, I'm not. You just don't like it because some evil conservatives have come to your little website and are interuppting you fantasy world.

Oh, so angry, angry. Your world view isn't as rosy as it once was so you are now reduced to trolling liberal websites, insulting others and desperately trying to prove you are right.

To at,

Maybe, just maybe, we believe it's possible because Saddam used WMD's on his own people. Let me say it real slow for you - his O-W-N people. I take it then that you are willing to leave a man that would do that to his own people and had threatened the US in the past in power.

And you call us silly. Please.

Sorry -- OT -- to all of you who have thought about us in Houston and me specifically, I just wanted to say thank you so very much. My family, friends and pets are safe and fine -- I'm also lucky in that all the utilities are working in my part of town (and I have a 1/2 tank of gas, food for a week and plenty of water), so I am in better shape than many others.

Take care, and thank you again,
dorita

BTW, you may want to check out 60 minutes (that conservative show ya know) tomorrow. Pakistani officials are stating that Saddam moved the wmd's to Syria and Lybia before we dethroned him. And we all know Pakistan is and always has been pro-US.

Funny, a show like that just when Bush's ratings are tanking and support for the Iraq folly is at an all time low and right on the heels of a massive anti-war protest in DC which drove both Bush and Cheney to leave town. Interesting.

I beleive that he was assuming your alias name was representative of you real like actions. If you don't like that, then change your alias (may I suggest DemFlunkie, which is more accurate).

Real Truth (such an oxymoron) must work on reading comprehension. Alais was created in response to Apollyon's silly comment. Silly trolls.

Real Truth said:

I take it then that you are willing to leave a man that would do that to his own people and had threatened the US in the past in power.

Will we be going after all the evil dictators now? Why did we buy off N Korea rather than take out Kim Jong Il? What are we doing about the masterminds of the Darfur genocide? Why was it only Sadaam? Could it be oil and a grudge match? Could it have been because we wanted to look tough and we thought Iraq would be a cakewalk?

LOL TRT
You're hawking governors who have an approval rating in the thirties like Arnold? You are forgetting that Bill Clinton kicked you guys' ass time and again.

We know, being a Bush apologist is haaard work!You guys act like he's a mental midget with statements like "he's doing the best that he can." Well if you think that letting our citizens die because of the incompetence of the Bush administration is good thing, keep on learning new talking points for your apologia.

"buttfucking junkie."

What an appropriate moniker.

LOL!

Pakistani officials are stating that Saddam moved the wmd's to Syria and Lybia before we dethroned him. And we all know Pakistan is and always has been pro-US.

Pakistan's long term interest is to have an Islamist government in Afghanistan. That gives India, their primary enemy more to think about. Pakistan is going to say whatever they think will serve their interest at the time.

Also, if WMD's are in Libya, then why hasen't our new ally Libya turned them in yet?

“Why did we buy off N Korea rather than take out Kim Jong Il?”

Typical liberal idiocy. You mental giants went apoplectic when Bush went into Iraq and NOW you’re babbling about why we didn’t go into N Korea?!?!?

Liberalism is a mental disorder.

argus,

Gaddafi is protecting his ass and ONLY his ass.

Speaking of Pakistan, why don't we have a nice long, drawn-out national conversation about how Pakistan got its nukes.

Won't happen, of course - it wouldn't fit the $cript.

"buttfucking junkie." What an appropriate moniker. LOL!

I hope you've enjoyed your lesson in satire. I neither do drugs nor engage in homosexual sex. But I find it horribly amusing that you think liberals do.

Typical liberal idiocy. You mental giants went apoplectic when Bush went into Iraq and NOW you’re babbling about why we didn’t go into N Korea?!?!?

Why, not at all, clearly you could not comprehend my post. I am merely pointing out that we are not in Iraq for the stated reasons. And that if we were in Iraq for the stated reasons, we would be hypocrites. I have no desire that the US go to N Korea or anywhere else unless there is aggression against us, which there was not in Iraq.

You clearly have some sort of learning deficiency. Too bad all the government programs to help people with such deficiencies have been cut by Republicans.

Yeah, dorita!!

Glad to hear you are safe and sound.

All I heard was some Pill-a-pino bitch saying Mother Fucker over and over. God I hate Filps!

Apollyon, no one commented on your post because it's not worth our time. We prefer to comment on truthful statements, not ones madeup by right-wing nuts.

"Shouldn't you be licking your transgendered lover’s genitals? Get to work libturd, duty calls and you're the limp wristed camel sodomite for the job."

Again, I rest my case.

at,

Do you think terrorists only resided in Afghanistan?

I would LOVE to hear what you would do to N Korea and why. Maybe if the Clintonista admin didn't get suckered by that deranged midget in NK he wouldn't have nukes now. I love how Clintonistas minions said they were shocked, shocked that Kim Jung Il lied to them.

So at, the racist comments I posted by libturds are fake??....What color is the sky in your parallel universe?

Maybe you should stick to coloring books or playing with you Barbie dolls.

Apollyon, please learn to read! My previous post:

I have no desire that the US go to N Korea or anywhere else unless there is aggression against us, which there was not in Iraq.

You know a troll is frustrated when they start blaming Clinotn.

By using the term "Clintonista" do you mean to imply that Clinton-supporters are communists? Just wondering.

First of all, you're proving my point about not dealing in reality. Having an election in January and voting on a constitution next month isn't exactly losing the war. If we were really losing then NO progress would have been made politically in Iraq.

Second, I doubt you had much to say when Bill Clinton "invaded" Muslim lands during his administration...about Arafat? And don't forget Muslosivich (however you spell it).

Here is the real truth:

It's apt that you would make the connection between Iraq and the former Yugoslavia for the same thing is going to happen. Iraq is not a natural nation state, the sunni's who are historically the best educated and most modern group have held it together scince 1922 through various forms of dictatorship. Remember Yugoslavia was held together by Tito's dictatorship, after his death the predictable eventually happened. Iraq is fragmenting into three states that don't like each other. This is why Bush I would not topple Saddam, it would strenghten Iran and Syria, which is what is happening. Iran will effectivily control the shiite south and Syria will control the sunni west.

There is also the likelihood of a wider regional war. An independant Kurdish north is very likely to create a regional war for Iran, Turkey and Syria all have Kurdish minorities that would be eager to join an independant Kurdistan. And all of this is likely to happen with 100k+ U.S. troops caught in the crossfire. That's is the progress your neocon leaders are bringing about. Hope you enjoy bloodbath's.

I know Judith. In your deranged world you can only make fun of white Christian males.

"As far as being angry, I'm not. You just don't like it because some evil conservatives have come to your little website and are interuppting you fantasy world."

BINGO!

Steve, I know what your stance is on allowing trolls to post and I respect that decision. However, when one admits that "interrupting" (one "p" Apollyon) is the goal, I would like you to reconsider the destructiveness of said trolls and censor their posting ability.

"buttfucking junkie."

I agree with Judith. If one wants to have an honest and intelligent debate about the issues, great. However, this kind of rhetoric is not needed.

Dorita: great to hear from you and that everything is OK. Take great care.

Trolls, we couldn't invent the bile you spew if we tried, so your view of the world is something that you just can't experience anywhere else. Well, the evisceration room at the slaughterhouse is close, and the toilets at the Superdome would rate I suppose. No, they're only disgusting, and your core belief system is far beyond that.

You know a troll is frustrated when they start blaming Clinton.

Hee, hee. Apollyan is still pissed that Clinton got a blow job when he's never had one!

Gaddafi is protecting his ass and ONLY his ass.

Well then wouldn't he score more points by turning in what the U.S. is looking for and would have already have confirmed through satilites was likely to be there? What do we have intellegence officers for? No one has claimed that Libya was helping Saddam before now. Pakistan has its own agenda and if they're going to claim this now when they haven't before, then they're reasoning as to what is their long term best interest has changed.

To the Real Liar - Sure I would say Israel has the right to exist as long as the Palestinaians have the right of return. But as we all know that Israel will never allow. So much for equality under the law. The question is: Does a genocidal racist Israel have the right to exist.

BTW, pardon my hiatus, I had a Peace March to attend.

“Why did we buy off N Korea rather than take out Kim Jong Il?”

Who made that statement, at?? You can't have it both ways.

Sure I would say Israel has the right to exist as long as the Palestinaians have the right of return...

Right of return?? You are a fool. Go learn some history.

The far-right wing wackos are going to be out in force now that people are discovering their leader has no clothes. Unfortunately, liberals are going to get their wrath and anger because they have no place else to go with it. SUCKERS! WELCOME TO REALITY.

"I know Judith. In your deranged world you can only make fun of white Christian males."

Oh Apollhon, you sure put me in my place didn't you. LOL LOL LOL

Wow. A lot of 'wingers are going to have coronary problems in October, if today's visitors give us any indication of how they react to "persecution."

Oaklander,

Your ignorance knows no bounds. As a Jew, if we were as racist as you claim the Palestinians would have been annihilated long ago. Do you think if those primitive goatfukers had the weapons that Israel has that they would show the same restraint?

emal and tempus -- thank you -- I wish I had waited until tomorrow to let you guys know -- that will teach me -- I should have read all the comments. This is a particulary ugly thread to have dropped my wee bit of good news.

I'm thinking that part of this troll trouble has to do with the fact that perhaps 3 million people in w's "home" state don't give a flying f*** about anything he has to say. He flies in and then decides to "weather" the storm in Colorado. How manly of him. We got through it here -- and it wasn't even as strong as Katrina. In truth, no one here needs him. We can do what we need to without his inept cronies. Please god don't let dirty dick come here.

Of course the apologists are out in full force, but I put my hope in the average person (I know there are many things connected with the evacuation that were made worse by the average person, but very few died.)

The mayor of the fourth largest city in the US proved his worth yet again. The local leaders of the region learned lessons quickly. The fact that the storm weakened and changed direction should not ADD to w's "success" nor detract from the effectiveness of the local leaders.

I'll stop and let the rest of you continue to sling that shit to see if it sticks. I doubt it will on either side -- meaning trolls can try but never succeed and the homies will fight valiently :)

Judith, I'm not trying to put you in your place. You've done that just fine yourself.

dj moonbat, you are so right. I am going to pop some corn and enjoy the show. How sweet it is to see the unraveling begin.

Appollyon - I didnt say JEWS were racist. I said the state of Israel is racist. See the difference? But that "goatfucker" remark of yours leads me to believe that perhaps you are.

Oh Judith,

Weren't you making the same asinine statements in the last 2 elections?

I guess ignorance really is bliss, eh Judith?

I can’t wait to hear your excuses next election after the R’s mop the floor with you sorry asses, AGAIN!

Dorita, glad everything was better than expected and the news is good. Yeah, I know, everytime you let in the "lessers" this is what happens. When will we lean?

can you say Condi Rice? Collin Powell? Rod Paige? Bush has appointed blacks to some of the highest positions in our country.

Are they in the .5% in wealth? That was the point of the club comment. How about the fact that a century of statistics show that both the stock market and the general economy do better under Democratic presidents?

The Republicans were hoping to go after black voters through churches, Katrina has effectivily ended that. The polls are now showing it, Tom as always is going to remain a minority within a minority.

Wow Apollyon, you are a one-man hatefest today. I wish I could buy you a beer just to chill you out.

Top Republican Tells Post: Laura Has Taken Away Bush's Swagger

Steve Soto's story is posted over at Eschaton. Glad to see other blogs posting Steve's writings.

"Wow Apollyon, you are a one-man hatefest today."

Racist, it's what they do best. I am beginning to understand how certain types can foster hate towards themselves. These are the people who will never listen to reason, never compromise, never open their minds to understanding, will never indulge in critical thinking, and if the truth be known, are incapable of such attributes. They are taught bitterness and hatefulness. One has to wonder what happened in their lives that have made them so mean-spirited and vile in their thinking.

Not one word tonight on the MSM News about the protest in Washington. I guess we can forget about any news other than the hurricans for the next month or so.

....and what exactly good has Bush done for "his OWN people"? Oh yeah, I forgot, his OWN people is that .5% that he's taking care of. I bet Saddam thought he took care of his OWN people too. His definition just wasn't the same as that troll's above. Personally I think a US president should count the average citizen HIS OWN PEOPLE, but Georgie PrezelBoy doesn't, therefore I have no respect for him or his stupid, potty mouthed followers. You know who you are.

The funny thing is, not only does everyone want us out of Iraq, everyone knows that everyone wants out, but only some of us have the courage to say so. The rest are only concerned with maintaining some very false appearances - which IMO is a sure sign of failure.

Sadly, I expect we've still got a few years of "optimism" ahead of us.

Well, one thing about having a troll hatefest,
it got the post count over 100.

To Judith,

I see where you don't want any dissent on your posts. As usual, you liberals preach tolerance and free speech, but when some comes along you don't agree with, you scream for it to be removed. Sad.

"I am beginning to understand how certain types can foster hate towards themselves. These are the people who will never listen to reason, never compromise, never open their minds to understanding, will never indulge in critical thinking, and if the truth be known, are incapable of such attributes. They are taught bitterness and hatefulness. One has to wonder what happened in their lives that have made them so mean-spirited and vile in their thinking."

You have accurately described those on the left. I couldn't have said it better myself.

To Oaklander - How exactly is the state of Israel and Jews different? Calling the state of Israel racist IS calling Jews racist. I have no idea what you are thinking. Maybe you should read the Old testament.

To Ga6thDem - when Bill Clinton was kicking our butt, was that before or after he lost the Senate and House to Republicans. Or was it when we stopped nationalized health care? Or when Republicans passed welfare reform (Clinton took credit for it but we crafted the legislation). I could go on and on.

Secondly, I can't wait to hear about the 30's approval rating when Arnold is re-elected governor.

dorita, so glad to hear you and your friends and family are okay.

And yes, your comment about our illustrious leader lately from Texas is right on:

I'm thinking that part of this troll trouble has to do with the fact that perhaps 3 million people in w's "home" state don't give a flying f*** about anything he has to say. He flies in and then decides to "weather" the storm in Colorado. How manly of him.

It was a bad, bad day for George. Couldn't stay in Washington because that Cindy Sheehan was going to be there with a whole bunch of her friends. Couldn't go to Crawford because it wouldn't look good to have him seen not caring again. Couldn't stay in Texas because it might interfer with the real people doing real thing to manage the crisis. So he was forced to hide out in Colorado acting like he mattered. As emal says, "It's hard work" being president, especially when the only reason people care about that is because they worry that he'll screw things up even worse if he gets the chance.

Why did we invade and occupy Iraq?

WMD? no

Saddaam is a murderous tyrant? no

Saddam gassed his own people? no

The reason is that the US must defend the status of the dollar as the world's reserve currency. Saddam's fatal mistake was that he decided that he would accept only Eurpos for his oil, threatening that status.

Our country is hopelessly bankrupt. The actual national debt is just under 8 trillion dollars. We must borrow heavily in order to just pay the interest on that debt. It must be apparent that the debt will never be paid off. The printing presses at the Federal Reserve have been working around the clock printing US fiat currency used to purchase government debt instruments. As long as other countries need to hold billions of dollars in their central banks to pay for oil and other commodities, the merry-go-round keeps going. If some other currency replaces the dollar, all of those notes will come flooding back home and the US will endure financial collapse.

We will not leave Iraq unless we can make sure that the Iraqi's will continue to use the dollar for their oil exports. Iran is attempting to set up a Persian oil bourse to compete with the London and New York oil exchanges. You can bet that it will not be denominated in dollars. This the the reason that the noise machine that is the corporate media is demonizing Iran at an ever increasing rate. Look for the US or Israel to invade Iran next. It's either that or financial collapse.

I would guess that some sort of false flag operation will be perpetrated by American or Israeli intelligence personnel, implicating Iran. It will be of sufficient seriousness to whip up American outrage into supporting military action and reinforce Bush's image as a war president that should be supported no matter what. Perhaps an attack on a US ship in the Persian Gulf ala the Gulf of Tonkin psuedo attack.

The powers that be will certaily start another war before allowing the US economy and the US currency to collapse. Whether there are enough troops to be successful is another question.

Believe it....it's not about WMD, it's about currency.

You have accurately described those on the left.

No, she accurately described intractable, angry wingnuts of any persuasion, a class to which Apollyon self-evidently belongs. Nor did she call for the silencing of dissent; she called for the banning of a self-admitted troll. See the difference?

"I see where you don't want any dissent on your posts."

You guys are so predictable. I knew that was coming when I posted it.

There is a very big difference between honest dissent and opposing opinions. That my dear friends is the civil exchange of ideas, thoughts and opinions. Along with freedom of speech comes responsibility. How responsible is it to show up at site and attack and use foul language? You can disagree with me all you want on any subject, but I can assure you that those of us who post here have limits to what we will accept and what we will not accept in behavior from you. You have the freedom to post, and we have the freedom to tell you what we think about your attacks, and whether or not we want to subject ourselves to them. Just because you have the freedom to post, doesn't give you license to be an asshole. But I doubt you would understand the subtle difference.

Mary, well said. Poor George wasn't wanted any place.

Anon, I doubt if they will ever see the difference. It is difficult to understand when you see everything through a very distorted lense.

The "Uniter not Divider" has accomplished one thing in his life, and quite successfully. He has managed to turn American against one another in hate.

Now, wait for the usual immature and hateful response to my post. Counting, 1, 2, 3,......

Real Truth - Here we are back at the bad logic again. See it works like this: you have a set called all Jews. Within that set you have a sub-set, lets call it Jews who approve of Israels racist policies. One includes the other, but IS NOT THE SAME AS the smaller subset. Figuring that out is called logic.

God it's hard to reason with a sick mind!

Oaklander, give it up. First, one has to have a logical mind. Then one has to have the ability to reason. You have to understand that 2 + 2 equals 4, not 5.

September 24, 2005 -- Anti-war protest in Washington, DC today. Very few Democratic members of Congress to appear. Reason: The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), according to Democratic insiders on Capitol Hill, put out the word that any member of Congress who appeared at the protest, where some speakers were to represent pro-Palestinian views, would face the political wrath of AIPAC. According to Democratic sources on the Hill, Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts was the chief conveyor of the AIPAC warning to his colleagues. At the time of this report, three members of Congress were to address the anti-war protestors: Reps. Cynthia McKinney (D-GA), John Conyers (D-MI), and Lynn Woolsey (D-CA). The word is that AIPAC will direct its massive campaign support to Woolsey's neo-con and pro-Iraq war primary challenger, California State Assemblyman Joe Nation, who has strong connections to the Rand Corporation, one of the Pentagon's chief war-making think tanks. Woolsey represents California's Marin and Sonoma counties.

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/

Well then wouldn't he score more points by turning in what the U.S. is looking for and would have already have confirmed through satilites was likely to be there?

argus, he did. AND he is paying restitution to the family members of those murdered on that fateful Pan Am flight that was blown up over Lockerbie, Scotland. You did know that Gaddafi was responsible for that heinous act of terrorism?

Here is a good read:

Libya: In a stunning trans-Atlantic announcement on December 19, British Prime Minister Tony Blair and President Bush said Libya had agreed, after nine months of secret talks, to publicly disclose and dismantle all nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs; to limit its missiles to a range of less than 300 km; and to open the country immediately to comprehensive inspections to verify its compliance. Like a drug dealer caught on the street, Libya also rolled over on its suppliers. Together with information coming from Iran, officials are now cracking open the international network of suppliers and middlemen that allowed both countries, and North Korea, to accumulate the high-tech equipment necessary to build nuclear weapons. Pakistan has emerged as a key supplier to all three.

Just how significant is the Libyan decision to end its nuclear weapons program? It marks the first time in almost 30 years that any nation has ended such a program without a change in regime. Several countries, including Sweden and Australia, abandoned research on nuclear weapons in the 1960s when they joined the newly negotiated nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, and South Korea and Taiwan gave up their nuclear ambitions in the early 1970s under pressure from the United States. Since then, however, programs only changed when regimes did. Argentina and Brazil ended their programs when civilian governments replaced military juntas. South Africa dismantled the six nuclear weapons it had secretly built when the apartheid regime was about to yield to majority rule. Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan gave up the thousands of nuclear weapons they had inherited from the Soviet Union when they gained independence.

http://www.carnegieendowment.org/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1448&prog=zgp&proj=znpp

Oaklander,

When you call Israel racist you call the Jews that make up the country racists. As far as my “goatfukers” comment, that is a description of the islamofascists and their supporters. There are Muslims that despise the Islamic throat-cutters and want to live in peace with the Jews but they are a tiny minority. Just look at what’s going on in Gaza. Pollyannaish liberal American Jews donated $14 million to buy greenhouses owned by Israelis to give to the paleoswinians as a good faith gesture, not to mention pulling out of Gaza. What did we get in return? Paleoswinians rampaged through the greenhouses, burned Synagogues and has fired countless rockets into Israel…….Now justice is coming in the form of an unrelenting rain of Hellfire missiles. Over the past 60 years the primitive Mohammedan cultists have demonstrated that they are unwilling to live with their Jewish neighbors. The ones in Gaza may get their wish, very soon.

Judith, For what it's worth, although Barbara Lee did not speak at the SF march and rally, actor Delroy (Delron?) Lindo read an impassioned statement by her. And yes there was a contingent of pro Israel counter demonstrators.

Judith,

Your points on etiquette are well taken. I will try and tone it down.

Apollyon, FYI there are some Jews in Israel that dissaprove of the treatment of the palestinians. Do you have a clever hateful name for them too?

PS. notice how I refrained from name calling and personal epithets. I suggest you might try the same.

Apollyon, I think you will find some interesting discussions here at TLC. Yeah, we get mad, and occasionally we resort to telling someone to go Cheney themselves, but on the whole we all have something of value to contribute and to learn from one another. In reality, we are all in this together and we need to find common ground somehow.

Oaklander,

I will try to behave. And yes, I am aware of the Jews who feel palestinians have been "oppressed". A Jew is lead council for Hamas. A Jew assassinated Rabin for negotiating with the throat-cutters. Liberalism has infected the body politic in Israel far worse than here in America.

I am sure that there are those in Palestine and Israel who do not agree with the politics or policies of their Countries, just as there are in this Country. If asked, I think most people would prefer peace to war.

Judith,

I must admit I expected unbridled moonbattery and used rhetoric reserved for the Demented Underground and Smirking Chimp. I have no doubt that there are probably good discussions here; we just see things fundamentally different, imao. But hey, that doesn’t mean we can’t make fun of the French together!

Apollyon,

No one has ever disputed Libyan involvement in the Lockerbee bombing, nice attempt to build a strawman however.

Your point is irrelivant to Iraq. No one has claimed that the Libyan weapons program is connected to anything in Iraq, unless this is another new reality that we're supposed to accept without question, first 911, then WMD's inside Iraq, then Iraqi "freedom" (more likely disintegration and civil war), and now this.

To Oaklander:

From you earlier post:

"The question is: Does a genocidal racist Israel have the right to exist."

Nowhere in that statement do you make a distinction between Jews who oppose their government's policies or those who support it. So don't tell me I'm not logical when you can't even be consistent in your own statements from one post to the next. We conservatives may be many things (in youe view) but being physic is not one of them.

To Judith: While I may not agree with all the rhetoric that has been used by Apollyon today (and he did apologize), I think he is dead on when he debates the issues. And the responses to him thus far have not refuted anything he said.

And yes, I have criticized some of the posts here today, but that's the nature of politics. Some pretty nasty things have been said to me and about me today also (some of it from you). I'm a big boy and can take it. But I read some of the posts last week where Ga6thDem told someone they would "Rot in hell" after that person took a position that he could not tolerate. If that's not hate, I don't know what is. And I've been on "right wing" blogs where liberals commented and they were not told things like that.

Personally, I think critcizing someone's thoughts on a particular subject are fair game. If I think what someone said is stupid, I'm going to say so. You guys sure don't have a problem saying that about me. That's fine. But contrary to the criticism I've received from people at this site, I have not questioned anyone's patriotism or their sincerity.

For the record I do not hate liberals. I just don't want them in a position of power. You probably feel the same way about conservatives. So be it.

Apollyon, Thank you. But you talk as if the Jews bear no responcibility. As if Jews have never murdered Palestinian children. Or never crushed American aid workers beneath Caterpillar bulldozers. Violence has been committed on both sides. A peaceful resolution will only come about when both parties realize that the others anger is justifiable. Jesus said "Love your enemy" He was on to something. (Don't get me wrong, I'm not a flamin' Christian. But I do agree with the philosophy) I hope that you don't think that this point of view makes me a racist.

Judith,

Everyone would prefer peace to war. What do we do while palestinians are blowing up our busses and pizza parlors filled with women and children?.....Judith, there are about a dozen major conflicts around the world and it is muslims who cannot get along with their neighbors. Take a look at this website: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Btw, Hamas has declared war on Israel.

Hey, it's okay to see things differently.

Whoa: do I detect the spark of possible peace in our time, on this thread? If so, well done.

To Rlp

Forgot to comment on your concerns on about Iraq falling into civil war:

I just don't think that's going to happen. mainly because we've heard about that since the day we went in and it hasn't happened yet. Yes, you are techically correct when you say that Saddam kept the country together. But out of fear. He was a equal opportunity torturer. I would much rather give the Iraqi's the opportunity to determine their own destiny.

The Sunni's are going to participate in the government. They really have no choice unless they want to be an island unto themselves. The train is leaving the station. I believe they will jump on-board. We'll find out Oct 15th.

I have no desire that the US go to N Korea or anywhere else unless there is aggression against us, which there was not in Iraq.

Posted by at at September 24, 2005 03:24 PM

Is it possible the aggression by Iraq against the U.S. was stopped before it occurred by the waging of the Iraq war? Just ask Vladimir Putin:

Russia Warned U.S. About Iraq, Putin Says

Regarding Israel-Palestine:

Oaklander, if you looks at the history of the last 30 years, very rarely has Israel been the aggressor. They usually are responding to attacks. If Israel were left completely alone, this all would end. As far as innocent people being killed, Israel does not target innocents while hammas and the PLO do.

Israel is always the one making concessions. When was the last time the PLO made concessions and stuck to it.

There is one thing I don't understand. Why does Israel keep letting the hammas and PLO prisoners go, only to have them attack them again.

And there is one thing I disagree with Bush on (don't faint). I can't for the life of me understand why he keeps calling for restraint from Israel. I guess nobody's perfect.

"For the record I do not hate liberals. I just don't want them in a position of power. You probably feel the same way about conservatives. So be it."

The Real Truth, my first reaction to the above statement was "right on." However, when I put aside my first immediate reaction, my second reaction was no. This Country, once upon a time, was govern by Liberals and Conservatives who could somehow find common ground for the good of all citizens. I do not want one Party rule, Republican or Democrat. I want checks and balances. The problem today is our Government has been hijacked by those who are far-right extremists and it is tearing this Country apart.

To Manny Ortez,

Good point.

I would also implore everyone to read the book "The Iraq - Al Qaeda connection". He reminds people about Saddam's speeches in the 90's calling for Jihad against the US (and he's not Islamic). To me, it's illogical to believe that Saddam had nothing to with terrorism after statements like this.

It's a great book and a great read (hey, I read Al Gore's book "Earth in the balance" so you libs can read this one).

Speaking of Gore, please nominate him in 2008. It would save us a lot of time and money.

How about the fact that a century of statistics show that both the stock market and the general economy do better under Democratic presidents?

Posted by rlp at September 24, 2005 04:12 PM

I've seen the same thing. Unfortunately, this misleading analysis of the economic data ignores certain facts. Democrat Presidents have just been better at eventually running the economy aground before they leave office and then passing it off to the Republican Presidents to have to deal with the mess left behind.

For example, just look at the two most recent Presidents, Democrat Bill Clinton and Republican George W. Bush. Clinton takes over in 1993 and the economy was already on an upward slope, while Bush takes over in 2001 and the economy was already on a downward slope. Or how about the horrific economic situation Republican Ronald Reagan inherited from Democrat Jimmy Carter in 1981?

Oaklander,

What in particular would you criticize Israel about?

I must say that the dipsh!t who stood in front of a demolition bulldozer is dead due to her own stupidity. She was like a puissant compared to that behemoth in front of her and the driver couldn’t even see her. This is what happens when American bleeding hearts go over to foreign lands where they expect their behaviors to be tolerated as they are here. Remember that punk who was caught in Singapore spray painting graffiti? Well he got the mandatory caning and is permanently scared on his back. And we’re talking about dozens of lashes and justifiably so. We would have less graffiti here if we did something like that. Punish the malcontents instead of a slap on the wrist. Also recently a girl from Australia was sentenced to 20 years in prison by a Muslim judge, in Indonesia, for attempting to smuggle a little ganja. Its sad but you have to follow the laws of other countries if you go there, simple as that.

I would also implore everyone to read the book "The Iraq - Al Qaeda connection". He reminds people about Saddam's speeches in the 90's calling for Jihad against the US (and he's not Islamic). To me, it's illogical to believe that Saddam had nothing to with terrorism after statements like this.

Posted by The Real Truth at September 24, 2005 08:40 PM

I agree wholeheartedly. Too many against the Iraq war have forgotten some of the facts about Saddam and his regime, including the fact that the Clinton administration made regime change our country's official position against Iraq. Taking the strong position of regime change, as Clinton did in the late '90s, without actually taking the action to make it happen isn't leadership.

Judith,

I thought we were making some progress until your last post. First of all, your looking at the past thru rose colored glasses. Politics has always been partisan. Name me a period when there was "common" ground. The civil war? The early years of the country (read about Adams vs. Jefferson). Read the book 1776. Notherners wanted George W. ousted as commander of the continental army.

I really take exception to your stmt about the government being hijacked. What proof do you have that this happened? Was it in 2000 when Bush supposedly stole the election (despite the fact that every recount shows he won)? Or maybe 2002 when we gained seats in both houses. O maybe 2004? What? Ther are elections every year. If you want to make a change then work to convince voters to vote for your candidate.

And let's be honest here - after all we've said today, you really want a balance between Dem's and Repub's? I think we both want our side to be in control.

Besides, I don't remember the Dem's being "concerned" about balance in the 1970's when they had the WH, and both Houses.

Manny Ortez,

I've seen that argument before and it doesn't hold water, I'll explain why. As one who has been involved in the shipping industry, I know that shipments of cardboard boxes are an almost perfect predictor of the economy six months down the road. In other words, if factories and other companies that ship a lot expect to sell more in the near future, they order more boxes. If the reverse is true they order less. Given this six month lead time, you can allow another six months for the effect to work its way through the rest of the economy. As a presidents' term is four years, the "hang over" period is only about the first year of the new term. The new presidents' policies are acted upon and affecting the economy for three years of the four year term.

Yes, you could say "but what about deep recessions, wouldn't that cause an exception?".
The answer to that is considering the fact that we now have over a hundred years of a consistant pattern, these exceptions, to the extent they exist, haven't proven significant enough to change the overall pattern. The last three years of a term are attributable to a given presidents term, the trend is consistant and unyealding.

Judith,

Many liberals view the thought of saying “under God” in the pledge of allegiance as extreme.

Many conservatives, and liberals, feel that Kelo is extreme and blatantly unconstitutional.

The latter, brought to us by the liberal wing of the SCOTUS, is communist in nature.
Karl Marx: The theory of the Communists may be summed up in one single sentence: Abolition of private property.....Which do you find more threatening?

rlp,

I understand your point, but it can certainly skew the numbers you're citing when making the claim that "both the stock market and the general economy do better under Democratic presidents" if Republican Presidents, like George W. Bush, have to deal with about 25% of an entire four-year term being an economic recovery period, don't you think? Plus, your claim is also misleading because the first year of the next President that follows is actually operating under the policies of their predecessor (e.g., Clinton's first year in office after George H.W. Bush saw solid economic growth despite Bush having to navigate the country through a recession).

There are certainly a multitude of additional variables that would need to be included in this debate, including the various other incidents that impact economic conditions during a presidential term that have nothing to do with an administration's fiscal policies (e.g., military conflicts, natural disasters, etc.). My main point is that to make the claim that "both the stock market and the general economy do better under Democratic presidents" may technically be true but is grossly misleading for some of the aforementioned reasons. After all, during the 2004 campaign Democrats keep making all these negative statements about the economy under Bush. Yes, many of the claims were fairly accurate, such as there had been a net loss of jobs under Bush to that point. But it didn't take into consideration the fact that Bush inherited an economy sliding into recession, corporate scandals that were hatched in the last '90s were hit in 2001, the attacks of 9/11 and subsequent War on Terrorism, the dot-com bubble burst, etc.

Manny,

When a president like Clinton takes over, even when he comes in at an opportune time still has to perform. Clinton could have persued policies that would have lead to a squandering of the 90's tech boom. He had about seven good years before the tech bubble bursted and started the last recession. Bush II may have had some difficulties coming in when they did. But, considering how long the job market has remained soft under Bush II, the current wage stagnation is his responsability.

There may be amny factors accounting for suoperior economic performance under Democratic administrations, but I believe economic philosophy is the most importiant. Look at the difference between two quarter century periods, namely 1948-73 and 1980-2005. During the first period demand side economics were dominant. Even the Eisenhower presidency didn't change the prevailing philosophy and we experenced a period many call the high mark of American economic growth. Scince Reagan we have seen supply side economics become dominant and dispite the tech boom of the 90's, overall economic performance has been less impressive.

Yes, the last quarter century has been good to the elete, but you can't have a successful economy long term with these policies. Yhe answer is in demand.

Clinton takes over in 1993 and the economy was already on an upward slope

Really? After Bush I's tax increases? Hm....wonder what that tells you.

Apollyon, I think Kelo is unconstitutional.

I have no problem with "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. However, I believe in God, so I wouldn't have a problem with it. Personally, if you don't believe in God, then don't recite the Pledge or say that part of the Pledge. Problem solved.

The Real Truth, there was a time when rancor and hateful harsh words were not the daily political diet. While there were passionate differences between the two parties, I do not ever remember hate being the core motivator of either Party. Civility has been replaced with hate.

The eagle cannot fly with only a right wing. We have and are experiencing one Party control. It would be very narrow to believe that only one Party has all the answers, and the other has nothing of value to contribute.

Yes, it was 2000.

COMPROMISE, remember that word, and I don't just mean the Democrats.

To Judith,

As I suspected, your real motivation to feel this way come from the 2000 election. It was not hijacked (although I'll never be able to convince you of that so I won't try). Regardless, at some point you're going to have to move past it (as are all the Dem's). You had a chance last year to defeat Bush and were not successful. I'm sincerely offering some advice here: Bush is not running again. If the Dem's don't start realizing this, they will lose again next year and in 2008. They are going to have to have a plan on major issues (which they don't have now).

As for the President himself (I'm not talking about us bloggers who argue with one amother), you tell me a time when he has personally attacked the Democrats. He has bent over backwards to try and work with the Dem's in Congress and even went so far as to utilize Bill Clinton to help with hurricane relief. And what did Clinton do? He went on tv last week and blasted Bush. Yet I suppose that's Bush' fault.

Howard Dean said at one time that he hated Republicans and every thing they stand for. Is this the uniter you had in mind? Has a Republican said this about Dem's???? had the Republican chairman made statements like this about Dem's?

I'm not saying that Repub's never engage in persinal attacks, but for you to pit the blame on Bush is just ridicoulous. He has tried to unite the country. The fact that Dem's keep slapping his hand away is not his fault.

BTW, Bush has compromised on a lot of issues (like letting Ted Kennedy write the education bill).

A Jew assassinated Rabin for negotiating with the throat-cutterss

hey, that hurts. we would never negotiate with israel.

and we're really more decapitators than throat-cutters. we use a sword, you understand.

prince bandar,

Thanks for the correction. btw, why did you guys decide to wipe your asses with your left hand and not the right? Its symbolism is appropriate in so many ways. Also, why do you make your women wear 7th century potato sacks? You know, only a little cowardly parasite would do that to his woman.

potato sacks? not all muslims are from iowa. we only wear clothing made from the finest couscous bags.

when will the infidels ever learn?

princess fatima,

I and several others have been trying to get a fatwa. What does one have to do these days to get a fatwa against them? Btw, where’s prince Bandar? Is he on all fours facing east with his ass in the air right now?

my dimwitted infidel, you must be more than a mere speck on the head of a pin to merit recognition, much less attention.

as for the prince, he tends to his own affairs

princess fatima,

Does the prince tend to his affairs in the barn? That may explain why you wear a potato sack; to distinguish you from the farm animals. I’ve always been curious how Arabs, who’ve fallen assbackward into black gold, still can’t get indoor plumbing throughout the Arab world. But hey, you guys make great humus. You should check out some western luxuries like toilet paper, you may like it. Maybe not, old habits are hard to break.

Heh. Steve, you ought to do these comedy threads more often, fatima and bandar are a hoot. But your parody of the right wing asshole is hilarious. From the obvious obsession with barnyard animal sex to the disturbed savouring of scatalogical images of Arabs, you've captured the essence of the idiocy of the Bushlicker. Even choosing the name of Prince's sidekick is funny.

Kudos.

my obtuse infidel, we have no barns as you call them in iowa, nor any need for potato sacks. You are blinded by camel's spit in your eye.

The merits of indoor plumbing have been vastly over-rated. A hole in the ground never backs up.

tell me a time when he has personally attacked the Democrats.

How about the fall of 2002 in Georgia when Max Cleland was running for re-election?

iamcoyote,

If we want to hear the comments of a Puerto Rican transgendered midget well let you know. Now, if you could please shut that gaping, tartar encrusted penis receptacle that you call a mouth. I want to hear more from the princess about the Crapistan that she dwells in. Actually, make yourself useful and go find a goat; I think prince Bandar is done sticking his ass in the air and he’ll probably want to “relax”. Then of course he will have his evening meeting with fellow goatfukers where they’ll shoot their Kalashnikovs in the air and whine about Jooooos.

i bid you infidel, do not smear others with your soiled typing finger. the sand under your feet may shift, leaving you begging for a cask of clean water. the prophet (pbuh) does not smile on those who falsely bear the name of the keeper of the locusts.

beware bottomless pits

princess fatima

I am flabbergasted by the depth of incoherence and gibberish in your last post. May G-d bring peace upon your soul. You can take comfort in the fact that it’s not your fault. Those countless years of kneeling and swaying uncontrollably while muttering Quran verses can do that to ones mind. Did you know that Mohammed was illiterate and had dictated his delusional babblings to a scribe? That may explain a lot, eh?

Stop it, Steve, you're killing me! You should take that show on the road with The Rude Pundit: The Rude Troll! HAHAHA!

To at,

Provide me the transcript and source and I'll believe you.

The reason I don't beleive it is this:

Last year someone asked Bush about the controversy over Kerry's war record. Bush dismissed the controversy and praised Kerry for his service to his country. He also deferred to Kerry saying that he (Kerry) had actually seen combat.

i wish y'all would be nicer to prince bandar. he's practically a member of my family. we held hands in the garden *sigh*

now about those dangerous syrians . . .

oh, i get it. apollyon didn't know that prince bandar is a real person (sometimes called "bandar bush"). well, he is, einstein. he often visits your boy down on the crawford farm (it's not a "ranch" if there's no livestock).

Apollyon pig eater, the sodomite fatima is not one to attend to. She flashes her eyes and tempts all the men in my clan. She lustly dares to show her ankles and wrists. She is poisoned by false prophets. She is the least of the prince's wives -- she is relegated to foot washing and the prince's private's cleansing.

Your words against the Prophet -- PBUH -- are true, but not relevent. It was customary at the time -- as it is now -- for scribes to follow great leaders and transcribe their words and insight. So, was it that you had a point?

May Allah remove the pig blood that poisons your body.

princess ummugulsom,

I am privileged that you would take time out of your day, of picking dingle berries from prince bandars better looking side, to bestow your enlightenment upon me. I was not aware that princess Fatima was a sodomite. Did you know Arafat was gay? As the great pedophile leader of the PLO he was forced to marry in his 60’s to hide that secret. Some of the elder palestinian rats, with diapers on their heads and breath of hot garbage, told the fondler of little islamofascists that he must marry because the leader of a Palestinian terrorist organizations could not be known to enjoy spooning young hajjis.....I guess many Arabs do prefer “alternate” lifestyles. Could that explain why so many are sheep herders?

princess, I must confess, I am a Jew and don't eat swine or shell fish. Gimme a bagel with cream cheese and lox and now we're talkin'. I don’t want to waste anymore of your time; you should probably get back to sticking your ass in the air.

What's up with the feces fetish, "Appolonia?" (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) That's just disgusting!

Apollyon -- you didn't have to tell me anything about yourself. You could have just responded in the fun little thread here. I know what your monikar means, but do you know who Fatima or Ummugulsom were? I doubt it. I'm not of your faith nor the other, but I tend to read in my spare time and learn for that matter.

iamcoyote, I decided a while ago that it would be me that posts last here. I've got the days off -- the university has shut down. Even when I drop off to sleep or clean up the yard, I will keep checking back and make sure I am the last.

Apollyon -- bite yourself and all your bile. I will outlast you -- if anything, I am tenacious.

btw iamcoyote -- I couldn't find it on the General's site, but there was a nasty picture of Chaney there -- oh and speaking of the General -- do you think this Apollyon is one of that Pam or whatever that slut's name is that stirred stuff up over there earlier this week?

"tell me a time when he has personally attacked the Democrats.

No Bush doesn't cast disparaging remarks on the Democrats." He uses others to do his dirty work, and with his approval.

dorita, I must have missed it. I'll go look for the Cheney photo. Though I'll have to space them out on L&L. The shot of Ratzinger is scaring the children!

dorito,

What are you babbling about?

They ruined a perfectly good rectum when they put teeth in your mouth. Do your parents happen to be siblings?

my perfectly good comment is gone. how'd that happen?

and only one other person on this site EVER called me doritO.

I'm the last --- ;)

dorito,

I didn't realize that you were the princess and bandar. My apologies for my last post.

It was fun.

i cannot account for prince bandar, i only wrote princess fatima and ummugulsom.

prince bandar is a regular contributor and funny on his own. i just jumped on his coattails as it were.

and stop calling me dorito already.