Civil war? Now?
It's been civil war over there for 6 fricking months since the run-up to the interim government and when Sunni and Shia began targeting each other's populations for bombings. It's been so obiovus that even an armchair jockey like me, reading the news safe at home in Usonia has seen it without much effort.
Fucking journalists.
Posted by idiosynchronic at September 30, 2005 04:30 AM...its tough to find out whats happening when... "you cant even go out for coffee in the green zone" so sayeth the sage bill orielly...
Posted by kingweasil at September 30, 2005 05:49 AMIf there were any justice in the world Bush would perish in the bowels of an inadequately armored military transport vehicle, torn asunder by shrapnel, his corpse then consumed by the resulting fires.
Posted by steve duncan at September 30, 2005 06:11 AMIf there were any justice in the world Bush would see his house invaded, drug off to a prison, be forced to undergo 'intensive' questioning, be humiliated repeatedly, returned to a bombed out house with quarter of his family dead and another quarter missing, and then be killed by suicide bomber while just trying to get food.
Posted by idiosynchronic at September 30, 2005 06:19 AMSteve G. made an excellent point. The dynamics of the civil war are simple and incredibly dangerous.
The Shia and Kurds will wipe out the Sunnis. But there are a about 1 Billion Sunnis world wide who will go beserk. A huge recruiting tool for El Queda, maybe more.
And/or Iran and Turkey move in. So back we are to having to broker a deal between Turkey and Iran - the two major neighbouring military powers. They'll love more oil, and to control the Kurds.
God, what a mess. And right in the middle of the oil fields.
Posted by Samuel Knight at September 30, 2005 06:19 AMI agree with all the above writers and this is just more proof that the chimp is the worst president ever....
Posted by headxray at September 30, 2005 06:20 AMIf there were more justice in this world than injustice, people like GWB would never even attain positions such as POTUS in which they could cause so much harm to so many others.
Posted by a different jlb at September 30, 2005 07:04 AMThe Shia and Kurds will wipe out the Sunnis"
That's not so likely as you may think. The Sunnis have several areas where they constitute a large majority. In general, they are much more educated, wealthier and sophisticated than a great many of the Shi'ia. They also constitutre the bulk of experienced military, especially the officer corps. And guess who were the ones who stashed most of the munitions. I certainly hope, as bad as it's likely to get, that we wouldn't see genocide of 15-20% of a modern nation's population!
It's likely to get plenty ugly. The Kurdish Pesh Merga number up to 80,000 experienced and reasonably well equipped fighters. The Badr Brigade is at least 15,000 strong and currently in control of the military and police forces in about half of Iraq. Al Sadr can bring up anywhere from 10-100,000 fighters, but they are essentially the Crips & the Bloods, street gangs with little support from the rest of Iraq. The insurgents are estimated to be about 30,000 strong, although Juan Cole thinks they might be double that, and they are proven adept at murder and mayhem.
If the Kurds go solo or get involved in a full scale civil war, the Turks will take advantage of the excuse to attack big time. If the Shi'ia get in trouble, Iran will pitch in. If the Sunnis get their asses kicked, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and probably Russia, Georgia of some of the 'stans will get upset.
That's the danger of civil war in Iraq. Just like pre-WWI, a whole lot of people have an interest in what's going on. In fact, that may be the best reason to believe that it might not happen. The US presence is an incredibly, humiliating and murderous force in the country. If we left, it might actually allow the regional actors to force some accomodation among the parties. One thing is for sure, NO Iraqis would tolerate the presence of alien terr'rists in their country any more. The first casualties of a rapid US pullout would be the jihadists.
Just maybe if the pathologically venal and ignorant influence of Rumsfeld, Cheney and the whole PNAC "enduring bases" fantasy team from Hell was removed, things COULD get better, not worse. I, for one, am willing to find out.
Posted by DeminNewJ at September 30, 2005 07:16 AMIt may not be very applicable, but here's a story from when I was in Iraq after the invasion.
I think it was after we were leaving Najaf, and on our way out a group of Iraqis flagged the commander down. After some chatting with the locals through the interpreter, it was learned that there was a little house on the outskirts of the town we had been stopped in that was a bit of a safe haven for some Baathists. The townsfolk wanted up so go up there and wipe them out ( wouldn't have been a problem for Crazyhourse troop) BUT since they Baathists weren't really doing anything they were told that unless they were actively attacking anybody we couldnt help them. The townsfolk left. That night they townsfolk decided they would do what we couldnt. Slaughtered the Baathists and went about their business.
Honestly, cannot vouch for this, I wasnt with the Crazyhourse troop commander when he was talking with the townsfolk. But I have no reason not to trust the commander. I really haven't felt that the Iraqi people would appreciate being pushed around by anybody if the American troops left.
: shrugs: but what do I know...
Posted by Jolly Sapper at September 30, 2005 07:27 AMDeminNewJ:
The US presence is an incredibly, humiliating and murderous force in the country. If we left, it might actually allow the regional actors to force some accomodation among the parties. One thing is for sure, NO Iraqis would tolerate the presence of alien terr'rists in their country any more. The first casualties of a rapid US pullout would be the jihadists.
Just maybe if the pathologically venal and ignorant influence of Rumsfeld, Cheney and the whole PNAC "enduring bases" fantasy team from Hell was removed, things COULD get better, not worse. I, for one, am willing to find out.
If maintaining peace in Iraq, and the greater Middle East, was ever a serious concern on the part of the administration, do you think we would ever have launched this war?
Posted by dj moonbat at September 30, 2005 07:44 AMJudith Miller has been released from prison, and has named "Scooter" Libby, Cheney's hit man, as the source of the information in the Plame case. The Republicans are certainly having a good week.
As far as civil war is concerned, there is no avoiding it. Religion has once again demonstrated its real purpose. No wonder every other animal on Earth has no use for it.
Posted by tempus at September 30, 2005 07:59 AMResponding later to criticism, Bennett said his comments had been mischaracterized and that his point was that the idea of supporting abortion to reduce crime was ''morally reprehensible.''
Well, that's a lovely response and attempt to cover his ass, but the caller was talking about abortion being a reason that social security revenue is low. The caller wasn't talking about crime at all. Bennett is the one who moved the conversation to equate abortion and crime. Nice wiggle, though.
Posted by ann at September 30, 2005 08:46 AMWhatever happened with the group of right-wing "journalists" who went on a press juncket to Iraq to get at the "truth" that was not being reported by the vast "left-wing" MSM? I never did hear any reports from them. Did they even get off the plane?
Posted by Trieatalot at September 30, 2005 09:16 AMFind yourself uptight, socially unacceptable, or constipated? Try Power Line. This enlightening blog certainly has something to say, and if you are a believer in colon irrigation, it is just what the homeopath ordered. So have a bran muffin and log on to www.powerlineblog.com. Your dog will thank you in the morning. "Gonna give you my love, every inch of my love." Robert Plant after perusing Power Line, or at least I think that is what he was doing.
Posted by tempus at September 30, 2005 11:42 AM"F*ck off Tempus, and forget the book deal". Robert Plant's attorney.
Posted by tempus at September 30, 2005 12:13 PMTrieatalot, No, their all dead.
Posted by bbtb at September 30, 2005 02:15 PM