Well, that should be a familiar topic for him, since he knows all about the make-up of a terrorist.

I wouldn't mind seeing him choke on his own tongue.

Not to death!

Just enough to make him turn purple and grab this throat before some SS agent whacked him on the back and dislodged it.

So now it's Dr. Bush? Maybe he and Dr. Phil should throw a town hall extravaganza. They could have a few terrorists on the stage, everybody having a good hug and cry. Then talk about how it all started with that bitch that gave birth to them and brought them into this cruel, heartless world.

He's giving a speech today?

Another reason not to watch teevee!

What's up with Atrios?

He should just rename his site "Open Thread".

It seems to have devolved into a contest to see who can type "frist" first.

Snark, you criticize open threads on an open thread?

From CNN news this morning...

White House spokesman Scott McClellan said President Bush would likely veto the defense spending bill if McCain's language were included, calling the amendment "unnecessary and duplicative."

"If it's presented, then there would be a recommendation of a veto, I believe," McClellan said.

McClellan said existing law already prohibits the mistreatment of prisoners in American custody, and the amendment "would limit the president's ability as commander-in-chief to effectively carry out the war on terrorism."

If it is duplicative, how does it limit the President's abilities as CinC?

Sorry...it was all a quote

White House spokesman Scott McClellan said President Bush would likely veto the defense spending bill if McCain's language were included, calling the amendment "unnecessary and duplicative."

"If it's presented, then there would be a recommendation of a veto, I believe," McClellan said.

McClellan said existing law already prohibits the mistreatment of prisoners in American custody, and the amendment "would limit the president's ability as commander-in-chief to effectively carry out the war on terrorism."

Snark, you criticize open threads on an open thread?

Where else?

hey, john mccain finally does something right!

Good morning liberals.

Let’s all hope that Fitzgerald announces the results of his investigation before the weekend. This waiting is hard work….hard work.

Thank you professor, I was unaware our Manchurian Candidate had proposed an anti-torture bill. A quick veto will end this lunacy.

It will perfectly in form for George Bush's first use of his veto powers to be the veto of a defense spending appropriations bill because it contains an anti-torture provision.

That will look just lovely in the history books.

hey, j, looks like 90 us senators are lined up against you and the torturers.

bush is on the radio now, telling us what goes on in the mind of a terrorist.

this is really enlightening and new stuff. not the usual bullshit filled with empty catchphrases and hauled out for no other reason than dear leader's plunging popularity [/as if]

I'd anticipate a ratcheting up of fear-mongering in the Bush speech.

And--hey, J West, you stupid sack of gopher crap--there'll be no veto with a 90-9 vote.

"we were not in iraq on september 11, 2001."

no, you were in saudi arabia. thanks for taking care of that. hell, thanks for everything.

is this nothingburger of a speech to cover for the latest spy scandals? or is fitz gonna hand down indictments today?

Shhhh...

Our duly elected leader is talking.

J. west how many inditements will Joe and Valerie have against them? What a fool.

It's hard to type while standing at attention with one hand over my heart.

I'll get back to you in a moment.

good one, j

i think the strategy behind this speech is: say the same thing you always say, but do it for twice as long. that should work.

Hey, I thought only liberals cared about the psychology of terra-ists! He's horning in on our territory, the bastard.

Good morning liberals.

Let’s all hope that Fitzgerald announces the results of his investigation before the weekend. This waiting is hard work….hard work.

Thank you professor, I was unaware our Manchurian Candidate had proposed an anti-torture bill. A quick veto will end this lunacy.
Posted by j.west at October 6, 2005 07:06 AM

*****

The vote was 90-9, you stupid fuck. That's 23 more votes than you need to override a veto, you braindead cumsucking pig.

I can think of a few quick ways to end your lunacy, but this bill would prevent me from implementing them.

It'd be better if the indictments came down on a Monday. Every one would have all week to talk about them.

Friday is when Bush announces something that he wants to be overlooked by the press.

Goose,

The actual indictments against Joe and Valerie will be lost in the bigger story.

At this moment, the Wilsons are barricading the doors along with their co-conspirators, Kerry and his failed campaign staff. When Fitzgerald announces arrest warrants for this criminal gang, Joe will be on the floor feeding the ammunition belt to ex-war hero Kerry in a bloody shootout with federal marshals.

“You said feed me the belt and I fed you” (Mandrake to Jack T. Ripper)

When the investigation took its unanticipated shift, the focus changed to a social/political climbing couple using classified CIA documents in coordination with a failed presidential candidate to influence the outcome of an election.

I want what he's having.

Except I want to keep my pants on.

McClellan said existing law already prohibits the mistreatment of prisoners in American custody, and the amendment "would limit the president's ability as commander-in-chief to effectively carry out the war on terrorism."i>

And I can understand how he would want to keep on torturing those damn terrorists since it seems to be working out so well.

j.west is actually Ann Coulter

bbtb - j.west is a transvestite???

Transgender!!

ann,

What could you possibly have against getting “medieval on their ass”? Using a pair of pliers and a blowtorch makes for a more meaningful conversation.

Check out Fresh Air today - Krugman goes head to head with Stuart Butler of the Heritage Foundation on how Bush is going to pay for rebuilding the Gulf Coast without raising taxes.

Celebrity Deathmatch!

Der Liederhosen is just catapulting the propoganda. Have you ever been in the monkey house at the zoo when the head monkey starts flinging his own shit. . . ? Just asking. Remember to duck >>> (:>

It's so funny to see Republicans make the same mistakes over and over. Trickle down economics - didn't work. Torture instead of persuasion - didn't work. But damn, they will stay the course until the end! Even if they are wrong, they are determined!

jwest, psychedelics so early in the day?

It's so funny to see liberals (ann) continue to deny what has worked (trickle down economics) every time it has been tried.

Torture - a form of real quick persuasion - works just fine, thank you very much.

":jwest, psychedelics so early in the day?"
naw west is hitting the crack pipe like every other day...

It's so funny, you know, how Bush repeats the same things over and over and over....as though at some point people will believe. Unfortunately, it does work sometimes....until the day when the curtains are pulled back and everyone sees that the Great and Powerful Oz is just a frightened old man, spinning tales of grandeur.

bu$h wants to scare and frighten us again.
Why doesn't he get his own camp in order? The people finally understand who to be afraid of, his adiministration!
If it's the radical muslim clerics that are starting the hatred, then why doesn't bu$h eliminate them? I'm sure special ops can do it!
I guess that's not the way to fight an insurgency, you have to let them get a good foothold first.
He doesn't want to fight a war on terror, he wants to protect America's corporate stranglehold on "Southwest Asia".

j.west is actually Ann Coulter
Posted by bbtb at October 6, 2005 08:09 AM

*****

A cunt by any other name is still a cunt.

Sunshine,

Thick skinned conservatives can take anything you can dish out, but there are some thin skinned PC liberals on this thread.

Maybe you could kick the conversation up a few IQ points.

Torture - a form of real quick persuasion - works just fine, thank you very much.

How about that - jwest is also an expert on the uses of torture in military operations. I'm surprised Bush didn't call on him/her to testify in front of Congress. Funny, that the majorty of psychological studies have consistently found that torture ellicits fake confessions. Real useful shit.

At this moment, the Wilsons are barricading the doors along with their co-conspirators, Kerry and his failed campaign staff.

Wow, u.jest is in fine form today. Them is some high, high quality banana peels you're smoking.

Why would they talk about their own therapy sessions?

Sunshine,

Thick skinned conservatives can take anything you can dish out, but there are some thin skinned PC liberals on this thread.

Who's Sunshine? Are you talking to your blotter acid?

Having finished reading the transcript of the "new" Bush speech, I can say that there's nothing new in it. It's just a restating of the same faulty assumptions that got us into this mess to start with. I'm not surprized, anyone who operates under the assumption that Sunni radicals have the same goals as Shiite radicals doesn't "get it" to begin with.

How about that little trick in Iraq yesterday, trying to define voters as those eligable to vote rather then those who actually do. If any Iraqi Sunnis didn't have enough reason to be suspicious of the process before, they do now.

P.S., it was 32 years ago today, October 6, 1973 that the Yom Kipper War began. Western support of Israel in this war led to the first oil embargo. In short, the nightmare we are in began 32 years ago today. And we're more dependant on imported oil now than we were then.

Ann,

Try to internalize the argument and see if it makes sense.

When we in the Military/Industrial Complex had the secret hurricane machine turned on in Japan to cause Hurricane Katrina, it wasn’t just to displace the poor so that we could build luxury condos closer to the French Quarter.

Our plan was to get liberals screaming for the federal government to intervene in opposition to the Posse Comitatis act. This will give us the impetus to change the laws prior to the ’08 elections.

2008 will be a close election with California as the swing state (thanks to Diebold). When questions are raised, we will call it an emergency and move the troops in.

In order to round up all dissenting liberal voices, our toothless, cousin-marrying, jack-booted forces will drag known liberals from their beds and torture them for immediate locations of their yoga class partners and the name of all those who administer ginseng enemas.

So you see, torture used for immediate information is quite effective. We would not use torture to change the hearts and minds of California liberals, that would be useless. But torture, used quickly and effectively in the proper situation, brings immediate results.

dj,

Sunshine is the pet name I have for Thunderhawk. It just seemed to fit him better.

His pet name for me is "Fuckfaced Cumsucking GOP Pig".

His pet name for me is "Fuckfaced Cumsucking GOP Pig".

Well, it is catchy...

It has flow and panache. Trouble is, I can’t fit it in the name field.

But torture, used quickly and effectively in the proper situation, brings immediate results.

Not if those who are tortured choose to lie. Which is what generally happens. Persuasion, making friends with the prisoner, gentle coersion, will yield better results, more reliable information. Study and study after study will tell you this. You can choose not to believe, but you would be wrong. Shocker.

ann,

You are absolutely correct if the subject was conversion as opposed to immediate actionable information.

If the interrogator in the California scenario started working on you with pliers and a blowtorch, how long would it take for you to give up the location of your yoga teacher?

Also, knowing that the information was going to be used immediately and if you lied the nipple screws were going to be attached, how accurate would you be?

All the whining about typing with one hand over his heart but he sure seems to have no problem typing with his prick in his hand. Go figure.

Why do you guys humor him when he's drugged up?

When trolls try to be funny or cute, it's coz they got nothin, I tell you, nuthin.

Don't feed 'em.

Man, this place sure has gotten serious.

duckman,

I was going for a "twofer".

Presenting a legitimate argument for the use of torture in certain tactical situations while simultaneously feeding the paranoia for the next Al Gore speech.

You know how we conservatives love efficiency.

snark, Ms. Coulter needs to reach her quota on posts.
Torture is having Ms. Coulter take over "the left coaster" open thread.

damn...broke my own rule again by trying to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.....silly me, forgot not to feed the trolls.

ann,

The intellectually honest side of you wanted to say:

“Yes, you’re right. I can see past the liberal spin now and realize that torture, used in the proper context for immediate actionable information would be very effective.”

Of course, you would add:

“But torture is morally reprehensible and I would never condone the use of it.”

To which I would reply:

“Well, we may disagree on that, but I’m glad we were able have an open and honest discussion on the matter.”

Torture is having Ms. Coulter take over "the left coaster" open thread.

Over her deceased carcass!

How touching.

I'm reminded of a song;

Been away, haven't seen you in a while
How've you been?, have you changed your style?
And do you think that we've grown up differently?
Don't seem the same, seems you've lost your feel for me.

So let's leave it alone 'cause we can't see eye-to-eye
There ain't no good guys, there ain't no bad guys
There's only you and me and we just disagree

Ooh, ooh, ooh
Oh, oh, oh

I'm goin' back to a place that's far away, how 'bout you?
Have you got a place to stay? Why should I care?
When I'm just tryin' to get along, we were friends
But now it's "depend upon a love song"

So let's leave it alone 'cause we can't see eye-to-eye
There ain't no good guys, there ain't no bad guys
There's only you and me and we just disagree

So let's leave it alone 'cause we can't see eye-to-eye
There ain't no good guys, there ain't no bad guys
There's only you and me and we just disagree

Ooh, ooh, ooh
Oh-oh, oh-oh, oh-oh-oh

[Words and Music by Jim Krueger]

The intellectually honest side of you wanted to say:

“Yes, you’re right. I can see past the liberal spin now and realize that torture, used in the proper context for immediate actionable information would be very effective.”

Absofuckinglutely not. Do not attempt to shove your misguided words down my mouth.

You seem to be the only person on this board who is completely unaware that torture does not yield reliable results - or perhaps you are just lying to yourself. Time and time and time again, experts in the field of warfare, psychology and criminal justice confirm this but you, caught in your blind allegiance to Bush and the Neo-Con ideology refuse to acknowledge the truth.

Ask McCain if he thinks there's a "liberal spin" on the use of torture. Get back to me with your results.

ann,

McCain knows torture works.

The reason I asked you to internalize the argument was to get an honest reaction as to how you would hold up under torture.

You, I and every sane person in the world would tell a torturer anything they wanted to know. If the information was easily checked, it would do no good to lie - there would just be more painful torture as punishment.

Step back from the studies you are fond of citing and just think of what you would do. The answer becomes very clear when you put the party dogma away and simply be honest.

McCain knows torture works.

Perhaps you should allow Senator McCain to speak for himself.

The Army Field Manual authorizes interrogation techniques that have proven effective in extracting life-saving information from the most hardened enemy prisoners. It also recognizes that torture and cruel treatment are ineffective methods, because they induce prisoners to say what their interrogators want to hear, even if it is not true, while bringing discredit upon the United States.

Imagine for a moment that you have been picked up in a random sweep of young Arab-looking males in NYC. You are shuttled off to a kinder, gentler nation, such as....Saudi Arabia. Your captors ask where bin Laden is....you say you don't know...they sodomize you with a broom handle...they tell you that you will be sodomized every day until you tell them where bin Laden is...in fear of being sodomized, you tell them that bin Laden is in the Newark Airport....the sodomy stops....yur captors fly off to Newark and cannot find bin Laden....they fly back and continue to sodomize you....you still don't know where bin Laden is....

tell me: did the torture work?

ann,

No, in that particular scenario the torture didn't work.

But if six young arab-looking men are digging a hole in the pavement of the road leading from Baghdad airport to the city and one is captured while the rest run away, do you think there is a chance the captured one would know the names and location of the others?

I'm not advocating torturing everyone - just terrorists and liberals.

What a sad excuse for a human being.

snark,

Ann may be a liberal, but she's a wonderful human being.

just keep sucking on that crack pipe west you asswipe...

Duckman was correct.

Nuthin'

Does torture work? Remember the classic movie "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly"? I'm thinking of the line where the "bad" more or less says "Blondie won't talk because he knows that it won't save him. Tuco's dumb enough to believe that he can save himself by talking"

What you think about torture reviels a lot of what you think about your adversary. No, movies aren't real life, but sometimes they have real world applications.

Ann may be a liberal

Actually, I'm a far more complex being. Some odd combo of liberal-progressive-Democrat-Independent-Libertarian. Or as my friends like to say, "She's reasonable."