Or the notes could be manufactured after the fact to support the version of the story the conspirators have fashioned.
Posted by Misplaced Patriot at October 7, 2005 05:11 PMI doubt it. These notes prove that the earlier version of events is no longer operative, which can't be good for them. Also, if they were designed to get the conspirators off the hook, she would have wanted to bring them with her to her first interview.
No, I think she either neglected mention of the meeting, or flat-out lied about an earlier meeting, believing that there was no way Fitzgerald knew about it.
Like I said: oops.
Posted by dj moonbat at October 7, 2005 05:20 PMi keep tripping over all these dropped shoes!
Posted by benjoya at October 7, 2005 05:40 PMA friend suggested that perhaps it would be better if this lasted a bit longer and therefore stayed fresh and active closer to the '06 elections. I don't know if I can stand it, though. This drip drip drip of information is like Chinese water torture.
Posted by dorita at October 7, 2005 05:42 PMWhat will be interesting is whether other reporters heard from Scooter in June, or whether everybody else had to wait until after the Wilson op-ed.
My money says Judy was special, and that the June meeting was qualitatively different from the later attempts to spread the word. I've always thought that Judy was, to some extent, in on the conspiracy.
Posted by dj moonbat at October 7, 2005 05:45 PMSome points to keep in mind.
1) The UN found out before the Iraq War started that at least some of the Iraq/Niger documents were bogus.
2) In March, after the UN discredited the Iraq/Niger connection, Joe Wilson was privately complaining about the 16 famous words in Bush's State of the Union Speech since it was now obvious that was the connection that Bush and the British were referring to.
3) In late May or early June, Nicholas Kristof of the NY Times wrote a column that appeared to have Joe Wilson as one of its sources for the belief by CIA analysts and other experts that evidence for WMDs had been deliberately exaggerated.
4) Condi Rice in early June of 2003 was already claiming that the information that the Iraq/Niger connection was probably false was "lost in the bowels of the agency" (not sure about exact quote but that's the essence of it).
5) At some point between Rice's comment and the appearance in the NY Times of Joe Wilson's article in early July, Wilson probably contacted the NY Times about wanting to do the article. This has always raised speculation about whether Judith Miller knew such an article was forthcoming from Wilson. In June of 2003, she was still aggressively pursuing the WMD story to the point of damaging her own credibility.
6) In early June, the State Department had the famous memo that mentions Mrs. Wilson's connection to Mr. Wilson (sounds absurd when put that way but this whole episode has been bizarre!). There has always been the question of who ordered this State Dept. memo and who provided the information on Mrs. Wilson which interestingly was somewhat inaccurate (though the memo emphatically pointed out that Mrs. Wilson's identity was not to be revealed). This is where some people are suspicious of the relationship between Judith Miller and John Bolton.
7) This is all interesting as far as Judith Miller is concerned, but the focus should stay on Rove and Libby who together are more than capable of the arrogance, recklessness, smearing and chicanery that is the real heart of this story. In the end, Judith Miller is a sideshow.
Posted by Craig at October 7, 2005 06:17 PMthere were those who suggested that the way this all would end, to the benefit of the WH, was that the time limit would just run out. Remember, one of Rove's main tools is to stall, stall, stall until the air goes out of whatever the issue is. Maybe thats why he's dragging his testimony out, and orchestrating Miller's late evidence...just stall it all out. Once Fitz has to call for another Grand Jury, he can be accused of a witch hunt, of partisanship, of a vendetta. Any one of which could serve to discredit anything that comes after. Pure Rove. If Fitz isn't hep to this tactic, I sure hope he's reading my post. Of course, he may be in on the scam from the start. It is not out of the question that the boy is looking for a way out, himself. All he has to do is stall a little bit longer. Remember, he has a staff, and all of them know the evidence in the investigation. The easy way out is to let the time expire. Can there really be a person with ethics and responsibility left? Fitz will provide the answer.
Posted by T2 at October 7, 2005 06:24 PMJeez, T2, that's an uplifting thought. On the upside, though, if he asks for more time, he'll get it. They'd rather have that, and take their chances (while spinning ruthlessly that he's on a witch-hunt), than a report on this grand jury's findings, or takinga chance and having him indict on what he's got so far.
Posted by dj moonbat at October 7, 2005 06:39 PMT2,
You can’t be serious.
total cooperation
no stalling,
no subpoenas needed – everyone testifying voluntarily,
no smearing the prosecutor,
no administration officials sent out to lie on every talk show,
no spin,
no comments to taint the investigation
This is the Bush administration – not the Clinton crime family.
God, this guy is funny!
Posted by dj moonbat at October 7, 2005 06:49 PMdj, are you dismissing the sacrifices of the [0] soldiers who were killed in the war for monica? cause those soldiers' families would like to have a word with you, if they existed.
Posted by benjoya at October 7, 2005 07:14 PM5{ to the GOPers advantage to drag this thing out past the current GJ time limit. If there is an indictment, they need to get it over with as far in advance of the 06 elections as possible. Bush may have no dog in the hunt, but the Overlords do.
Posted by T2 at October 7, 2005 07:26 PMdarn Mac's.. should read - It is not to the GOPers advantage.......
Posted by T2 at October 7, 2005 07:29 PMWhat is not to the GOPers advantage?
Posted by dj moonbat at October 7, 2005 07:31 PMLess than zero comes to mind . . . but it wasn't funny, really. I am still not sure about whether it is better if it is pulled out over to next year or not. I see the plus and minus of each side. The indictment of players would, I think, influence '06, especially if trials were completed before the elections. But I don't know. Maybe the ambiguity is better.
Perhaps I don't know sh*t since it is late on a Friday after a long week of having to figure out how to teach potential interrogators how to speak English well enough to be profitable to the DoD.
Yeah, it's getting to me.
Posted by dorita at October 7, 2005 07:31 PMHouse narrowly approves bill to help US refineries
"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In a cliffhanger vote held open by Republican leaders until they won, the U.S. House of Representatives passed by two votes on Friday a bill clearing the way for U.S. oil refineries to expand.
...Republicans won, 212-210, in a roll call that ran more than 40 minutes, far beyond the allotted five minutes.
House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi also complained, saying the proceedings were bringing "dishonor to the House.""
yahoo.com/s/nm/20051007/pl_nm/hurricanes_energy_congress_dc
It just NEVER STOPS.
Democrats in the chamber chanted "shame, shame, shame" as the final tally was announced.
Posted by TateMatthews at October 7, 2005 09:47 PM~~~~~~
dailykos.com/story/2005/10/7/21496/1156
And this is all consistent with my theories from July)
Fitz apparently knew all along that Judy had tried to write a story identifying Joe Wilson in late June. Where did he find that out? Wilson probably told him about it or, Fitz, like me, read Wilson's book. In any case, well before Judy's testimony, Fitz probably asked Wilson who he got the tip from in June that someone was writing a story on him. Wilson said, "Kristof" or "Shipley." And Fitz, being the thorough guy he is just dropped them a call to get some details.
Then, in Judy's interview (which was sworn testimony, so Judy couldn't change her mind overnight, so Fitz would know what he was getting before he let her go, and just in case Abramoff's friends got to her overnight), he asked some open-ended questions to which she should have responded with details about her earlier attempt to write a Wilson story. But she didn't. She probably, at that time, mentioned one detail that made Fitz take notice, but did not change the basic fact that she had just committed perjury.
Fitz called Wilson just to clarify the little detail. Which Wilson did easily, apparently over the phone. Fitz did it just so he made sure he had that detail straightened out before Judy's gj tesimony (so he was sure precisely what the outlines of her perjury were going to be).
Voila, just as expected, Judy committed perjury last week by burying details of her earlier reporting. Fitz likely asked her a question specifically tailored around Wilson's answer the previous night.
Just long enough after Judy finished, after she had gone home, made a martini, laughed with Sulzberger about how many concessions she had gotten, Fitz contacted Judy and said, "Um, there's one little detail you seem to have forgotten.
Well, let's make that one gigantic detail. Oh, and is Art there? Can I talk to him? Because that little, I mean gigantic, detail affects the testimony he gave us as well. What's that? You'd like to add some to your testimony. Well, do you have anything to give me? Such as your notes from June. Yeah, that's right, your notes detailing ALL of your sources. Yeah, I understand we agreed you could limit your testimony to your conversations with Libby about Plame.
But you promised you would tell the truth. And, well, you didn't do that."
"Hey!!!" Judy says. "I just remembered about some notes I forgot to tell you about."
Anyway. These are all guesses. But heck, if I'm right, then Fitz rocks even more than I thought he did.
~~conspiracy I keep thinking. How would somebody create an 'investigative' proof conspiracy to leak important information.
Somebody had to design it. It had to be so vague and confusing that only minute detail will unravel it.that minute detail can be kept by one or two persons and as long as he/she doesn't talk. The leak conspiracy would remain intake.
My question point:
what sort of clever scheme would somebody build? How would you go about doing it if you are Rove? Maybe this sort of reverse engineering can help us hunt the minute detail Fitz is hunting.
~~~
Think You're on to Something there...
I'm not in total agreement but it does fit into why Judy would come up with these additional notes. It sounds very plausible and likely that she was caught in a lie and realized that she had better come clean with some more information before an indictment was brought against her.
Judy sounds like the type that only squeals when she is squeezed hard. Like you said maybe that small breath of freedom and the adulations she received from her media brethen caused her to think she could get away with something until she was confronted with it.
~~~
Fitz knows I think Fitz knows Judy is about to write a book. And Judy is pretty competent journalist and she keeps note.All fitz has to do is finding some trick to make Judy cough up those notes. And it seems he sqeeze her hard enough...!blam.....now Fitz got ALL JUDY NOTES!!!!
that means EVERYBODY better STOPS lying. Judy gonna keep coughing up MORE notes (I am pretty sure she will keep trying to hide notes and Fitz will keep asking where are the missing pages)
With Judy notes, everything unravel I think. (I hope this is journalists notes we are talking about)
~~~~
She is outclassed She thought she had it all figure out. nailed!
I wonder what the note will reveal...