Soto, you are stating categorically that the White House has control over the contents of tonight's 60 Minutes broadcast. You are saying that this White House has some favors to extract from the executive management of CBS News.

I'm not even going to bother to ask you for any evidence of this since the only possible defense of your baseless charges is rhetorical excess.

Moreover, your take on the Killian Forgeries is absurd and delusional. This wasn't about "sloppiness;" this was about deliberately lying to the public in an effort to sway a major election. When you finally figure that out, I'll be happy to congratulate you.

Ya, what Toby said.

If you guys are always right, why haven't you won the Superball and retired from all of this?

Is Toby the resident Wingnut? Seems like it.

He just comes here to shill some of our readers over to his site.

Pessimist, I have, to my knowledge, never once trackbacked to this site until now.

But this is an egregiously irresponsible post and I wanted to make my case against it.

Thanks for making my motives the issue and not the correctness of my argument.

“Ya, what Toby said.”

No, I take that back. It’s a great deal more than what Toby said.

Talk about chutzpah, how could you possibly compare an expose on Clinton’s shortcomings to the pre-election fabrications perpetrated on Bush? Regardless of what Freeh says tonight, there are real people who can either confirm or deny the report, not fucking phantom leakers at livestock shows or incredibly poor forged documents that CBS lied about confirming.

You don’t seem to grasp the seriousness of the timing of “60 Minutes” hit piece on Bush. He was in the middle of a presidential election running against a bozo who was “reporting for duty”. What is Clinton running for? Whatever is said, the impact on the nation will be a tiny fraction of what the intended impact of the Bush piece was.

And then to even suggest that CBS, the home to and main staging point of every far left crazy moonbat in the country is somehow controlled or influenced by Bush is beyond the pale.

I may come up with some tough to believe scenarios at times, but Soto, you take the cake.

Moreover, your take on the Killian Forgeries is absurd and delusional. This wasn't about "sloppiness;"

Tobey-you ignorant slut!

Because of their sloppiness, CBS fell for a cheap Rovian tactic. Rove took the heat off of aWols record and made it about the memos, not the deserter-in-chief.

And yes it helped sway a major election, just not they way you are trying to spin.

BTW, the way you trollies crush on maxium leader reminds me of the way a 12 yr old girl crushes on Justin Timberlake. Its kind of creepy, in a Gannon/Gurkert/Rove/McCellan-3way kind of thing.

But I sleep well at night knowing your personal fuhrer will be the most hated public figure in recent times.

He's going to end up making Grant look good.

Snarky, do you have any evidence that Karl Rove had anything to do with the Killian Forgeries? You know, besides just your infantile wish that it were so?

Get back to me on that, loser. I look foward to kicking your lying ass.

The TANG memos were proven forgeries? Link me some proof please.

Poor Bill Clinton, it's been HOW long since he was president, and the SCLM is still after him?

Alan Colmes had something to say about it to Newty Newt

Toby, the info in the memo's was verify to be accurate.

Toby, Snarky didn't say that Karl Rove had anything to do with the forgeries. He said Rove, regardless of who fooled CBS, capitalized on a sloppy report to completely divert all discussion away from the service issue.

umm:

Toby, Snarky didn't say that Karl Rove had anything to do with the forgeries. He said Rove, regardless of who fooled CBS, capitalized on a sloppy report to completely divert all discussion away from the service issue.

Gibberish.

How does Rove's "capitaliz[ing]" on a "sloppy report" divert anything? I think the FACT that Dan Rather used a set of forged documents to make a political statement against this White House in the heat of an election ---and got CAUGHT--- is what screwed him in the end.

Get serious.

Toby, Snarky didn't say that Karl Rove had anything to do with the forgeries.

Sorry umm-I state with no uncertianty that Rove was directly involved in planting said fake memo.

Proof? The fact that Buckhead over in freeperville picked up on the kerning so convienently early.

Was Buckhead an expert on typewriters of that era?

By his own admissions, no. Shit, that was hashed out by experts for days, and may still not be resolved.

But who benifited by this memo? The anti-Bush forces? Not hardly! AWol? You bet-cha!

Occums Razor pretzel-boy. I dont need a link to Drudge to be able to discern the truth of something. If it stinks like a turd blossom, then chances are good thast it IS a turd blossom.

BTW, for any who are wondering about my enlistment status- my medical waiver was denied.

Im OK with that.

That was me above

Karl Rove should be buried in horseshit, and Toby and j.west should be buried along side him.

Toby baby go home and tell your mommy that the Clenis still loves her.

Clinton went easy on the Saudis? The piece of his soul they own is much smaller than the entire Bu$h family, isn't it? Not to mention the common interest Cheneyburton and the Saudi Royal House has in suppressing the development of alternative energy.

But that mean and evil Bubba! Blowjobs! Blowjobs! By a nasty girly-girl and not even a cockheaded manwhore!

Everything's Clinton's fault!!!!!

The lies that got us into Iraq.

9/11

The avian flu

cancer

Hurricanes

tornadoes

STDS

gout

dandruff

and potholes

Toby is a well known troll from the Eschaton site. He has been repeatedly spanked over there and now has to find a new bridge to lurk under. Welcome, Toby! Get your pants down and get ready for more spankings.

pseudolus:

Toby is a well known troll from the Eschaton site. He has been repeatedly spanked over there and now has to find a new bridge to lurk under. Welcome, Toby! Get your pants down and get ready for more spankings.

Simels, I'm not going to tell you again: I am not gay. Go bother someone else with your issues.

Anonymous Sack of It:

I state with no uncertianty that Rove was directly involved in planting said fake memo.

Proof? The fact that Buckhead over in freeperville picked up on the kerning so convienently early.

So, you're saying that Buckhead is Rove? No, Buckhead has already revealed his true identity and has appeared in panels on this very subject.

Please, please continue to cling to Rather's pud on this issue. It is truly the gift that keeps on giving.

I'm not Simels, you pathetic Bushbot. Your fixations are truly enormous.

Regardless of the veracity of the documents CBS relied on, the story was true.

Bush was a fucking chickenshit who failed to fullfill his responsiblity.

He has fucked up everything he has ever touched in his life.

Th only difference about now is the fact even daddy's rich buddies can't bail his stinking ass out of this fucking mess.

pseudolus:

Your fixations are truly enormous.

I think you've misspelled John Thomas again.

You wish, Toby, you wish.
And so does your Mama!

So, you're saying that Buckhead is Rove?

Nice strawman, there Toby. Set 'em up and knock 'em down. Nobody said Buckhead and Rove are the same person, just that "Buckhead" is a known GOP smear opearative in league with Rove.

pseudolus:

"Buckhead" is a known GOP smear opearative in league with Rove.

I will acknowledge my error if you can produce any evidence of this connection.

Freeh complains about the "scandals, rumored scandals," and refers to Paula Jones, Whitewater, etc. How many convictions resulted from these? How many convictions resulted form the Vince Foster case? Why didn't Wallace ask that follow-up?

This was a pointless interview, as it provided no contrary opinion other than Wallace's minor points. And even those managed to catch Freeh off guard.

CBS News was ready to run the smear without rebuttal, Heyward was all set to deliver exactly what the White House hoped from its investment.Steve Soto :: 12:50 PM
Precisely. I wrote to every email address I have at CBS to protest their partisan bias. It was last year, that one of the honcho's at CBS commented that they had made up with the White House, i.e. Rove. This was to have been the payoff. Freeh was utterly worthless at the FBI, but he as a partisan hack always running to the Republicans so it became impossible to fire his worthless ass.
Here is a story of exactly how the White House tries to browbeat journalists that they view as being insuficently deferential to Bush's attempts to spin his propaganda.

Moreover, your take on the Killian Forgeries is absurd and delusional. This wasn't about "sloppiness;" this was about deliberately lying to the public in an effort to sway a major election. ... Posted by Toby Petzold at October 9, 2005 01:14 PM
Ya, what Toby said.Posted by j.west
As self-appointed Strumabteilungen of the Bushevic party line, of course you do. However, there is no evidence that Bush fulfilled his duties at the Alabama National Guard, and he has admitted that he refused to report for a mandatory physical, which would have been refusing to obey a direct order. Your continued spinning this long-settled matter only serves to discredit you.

And then to even suggest that CBS, the home to and main staging point of every far left crazy moonbat in the country is somehow controlled or influenced by Bush is beyond the pale. Posted by j.west
They did exactly what Rove wanted. CBS is not left wing. During the Kosovo Conflict, Rather gave the Milosev's full access to his media to present their propaganda to the American public. You must be proud of your ignorance since you, like Toby, flaunt it at every opportunity.

Karl Rove should be buried in horseshit, and Toby and j.west should be buried along side him.Posted by at O
They would be protesting that not only does it smell wonderful, it the embodiment of Truth.

I am not gay. Posted by Toby Petzold
Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Toby's a well known troll here too. You can always tell when he gets banned over at Atrios' site because he tends to come and hang out here more often.

This jwest thing is fairly new (unless it's just a new user name for another troll) here. I did notice that there was a newerish commenter over at DKos with a user name of John West and wondered if they were connected?

This west troll afka "u.jest" started out posting attempting to sound reasonable despite tepidly offering some disagreement with prevailing progressive attitudes here. After a few weeks it then moved over to its deluded comfort zone of commenting, always stating something as factual but unable to provide any supporting links (or copying info from FR, LGF, Malkin or Powerline for sources). Right now west is just a reason to always remind people to scroll through its screed and ignore it.

Toby, try these on for size:

CLICK HERE

and this:

And now we learn from CBS that "Buckhead" - the blogger who posted to Corsi's website detailed information about the memos' typography just 3 hours after the story had aired on CBS - wasn't a typesetter or typographer at all. Instead, he's a lawyer, Harry MacDougald, who the LA Times notes, has "strong ties to conservative Republican causes who had helped draft the petition urging the Arkansas Supreme Court to disbar President Clinton after the Monica S. Lewinsky scandal" and has connections, at least institutionally, to Ken Starr and other senior Republicans.

and this:

Blogger Who Faulted CBS Documents Is Conservative Activist
By Peter Wallsten
Times Staff Writer

3:18 PM PDT, September 17, 2004

WASHINGTON — It was the first public allegation that CBS News used forged memos in its report questioning President Bush's National Guard service — a highly technical explanation posted within hours of airtime citing proportional spacing and font styles.

But it did not come from an expert in typography or typewriter history as some first thought. Instead, it was the work of Harry W. MacDougald, an Atlanta lawyer with strong ties to conservative Republican causes who helped draft the petition urging the Arkansas Supreme Court to disbar President Clinton after the Monica Lewinsky scandal, the Times has found.

The identity of "Buckhead," a blogger known previously only by his screen name on the site freerepublic.com and lifted to folk hero status in the conservative blogosphere since last week's posting, is likely to fuel speculation among Democrats that the efforts to discredit the CBS memos were engineered by Republicans eager to undermine reports that Bush received preferential treatment in the National Guard more than 30 years ago.

Republican officials have denied any involvement among those debunking the CBS story.

Reached by telephone today, MacDougald, 46, confirmed that he is Buckhead, but declined to answer questions about his political background or how he knew so much about the CBS documents so fast.

"You can ask the questions but I'm not going to answer them," he told The Times. "I'm just going to stick to doing no interviews."

Until The Times identified him by piecing together information from his postings over the past two years, MacDougald had taken pains to remain in the shadows — saying the credit for challenging CBS should remain with the blogosphere as a whole and not one individual.

"Freepers collectively possess more analytical horsepower than the entire news division at CBS," he wrote in an e-mail, using the slang term for users of the freerepublic site.

MacDougald is a lawyer in the Atlanta office of the Winston-Salem, N.C.-based firm Womble Carlyle Sandridge & Rice and is affiliated with two prominent conservative legal groups, the Federalist Society and the Southeastern Legal Foundation, where he serves on the legal advisory board and has been involved in several high-profile cases.

Founded in 1976, the Southeastern Legal Foundation advocates "limited government, individual economic freedom, and the free enterprise system," according to its website.

The foundation has fought affirmative action and domestic partner benefits for government employees, and successfully challenged a Clinton administration plan to use proportional sampling, rather than a hard count, to estimate the population in the 2000 census.

MacDougald helped draft the foundation's petition in 1998 that led to the five-year suspension of Clinton's Arkansas law license for giving misleading testimony in the Paula Jones sexual harassment case.

And MacDougald assisted in the group's legal challenge to the campaign finance law sponsored by Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wis.). The challenge, ultimately presented to the U.S. Supreme Court, was funded largely by the Southeastern Legal Foundation in conjunction with Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), the law's chief critic, and handled by former Clinton investigator Kenneth W. Starr.

The Supreme Court upheld the law, which banned unlimited contributions from corporations to federal candidates and political parties.

The foundation was joined in its challenge by a cadre of groups that spanned the ideological spectrum, including the National Rifle Association and the American Civil Liberties Union.

MacDougald is also a Republican appointee to the Fulton County Board of Registration and Election.

Last week, MacDougald once again plunged into a politically charged controversy — but this time his participation was anonymous.

Operating as "Buckhead," which is also the name of an upscale Atlanta neighborhood, MacDougald wrote that the memos that CBS' "60 Minutes" presented on Sept. 8 as being written in the early 1970s by the late Lt. Col Jerry B. Killian were "in a proportionally spaced font, probably Palatino or Times New Roman."

"The use of proportionally spaced fonts did not come into common use for office memos until the introduction of laser printers, word processing software, and personal computers," MacDougald wrote on the freerepublic website. "They were not widespread until the mid to late 90's. Before then, you needed typesetting equipment, and that wasn't used for personal memos to file. Even the Wang systems that were dominant in the mid 80's used monospaced fonts.

"I am saying these documents are forgeries, run through a copier for 15 generations to make them look old. This should be pursued aggressively."

The Sept. 8 late-night posting — written less than four hours after the CBS report was aired — resulted in a flurry of sympathetic testimonials from fellow bloggers, spreading within hours to other sites. The next day, major newspapers such as The Times and the Washington Post began consulting forensic experts and reporting stories that raised similar questions.

CBS has insisted that the four memos, dated from 1972 and 1973, had been authenticated by the network's experts and by "close associates" of Killian, who confirm "that the documents reflect his opinions and actions at the time."

The memos showed Killian resisting pressure by a higher-up to "sugarcoat" Bush's performance evaluation and ordering Bush to take a physical examination so he could keep flying.

CBS has cited an expert, Bill Glennon, an information technology consultant, who said IBM electric typewriters that were in use in 1972 could provide proportional spacing and the superscript — the small "th" — evident in the disputed memos.

The network also has sought to counter the arguments by referring to a typewriting script distributor, who says the typing style in the memos has been available since 1931. Moreover, CBS points out, some of the lettering in question was evident in Bush's military records previously released by the White House.

Still, when Killian's former secretary came forward this week to say she did not believe the memos were authentic either, anchor Dan Rather and other network executives stopped asserting that the memos were real. They said they would "redouble" efforts to resolve unanswered questions.

While bloggers and some conservative activists hailed Buckhead as a hero in their longtime efforts to paint the mainstream media as politically biased, some Democrats and even some conservative bloggers have marveled at Buckhead's detailed knowledge of the memos and wondered whether that suggested a White House conspiracy.

Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe even speculated openly to reporters that the whole thing could have been orchestrated by White House political advisor Karl Rove. The Bush campaign called the allegation "nonsense."

MacDougald is an outspoken conservative and a Republican active in local politics.

"I attended a meeting on Tuesday to organize lawyers for Bush-Cheney in my state to monitor and, if necessary, litigate election issues," he told fellow "freepers" in a Buckhead posting last month.

As a lawyer, MacDougald has represented government waste whistle-blowers and has challenged affirmative action laws that give racial and ethnic minorities preferences in higher education.

He is not a big financial contributor to political causes, having donated $250 to the Georgia Republican Party in 2002, when Christian Coalition founder Ralph Reed was chairman. Reed is now a senior strategist for the Bush campaign.

Associates of MacDougald scoff at the notion that he was doing anything but acting alone when he offered his observations about the CBS memos.

"Harry is a very strong conservative and a very passionate conservative so if he sees something that looks fishy, he's going to say something about it," said Lynn Hogue, a Georgia State University law professor and former executive director of the Southeastern Legal Foundation.

"When he's not absorbed with work, I think he spends the rest of his life in the wee hours of the morning on freerepublic," Hogue added. "And that's the outlet through which he shares his concerns and insights, and so rather than being a matter of conspiracy, it's just him doing what he does."

Anonymous Sack of It:

I state with no uncertianty that Rove was directly involved in planting said fake memo.

That was me numbnuts.

So, you're saying that Buckhead is Rove?

No, I am saying buckheads phax-machine is direct wired to Rove's metaphorical asshole. You know, where all your talking points come from.

Man, pseudolus kicked your fat doughy ass so hard I actually feel bad for you.

Not.

Thanks for the information, pseudolus. I suppose you've read it, too, which means that you are now free to apologize to me and the other readers here for lying about Karl Rove's connection to Buckhead. There is no connection and you just substantiated as much.

I accept your apology in advance.

And then to even suggest that CBS, the home to and main staging point of every far left crazy moonbat in the country is somehow controlled or influenced by Bush is beyond the pale.

Posted by j.west

Not that CBS, which must Canadian or Cuban or something.

We're talking about the CBS where the main evening news anchor, chosen to replace Dan Rather, is the brother of Dubya's Ambassador to Japan and former Texas Rangers' co-owner.

As for Toby, he's stupid, ugly, and nobody likes him or his pathetic ego that believes he's adding something anything to a conversation beyond hot air.

Snarky, you are a liar. Worse than that, you are a liar who thinks that copying and pasting an irrelevant news report in support of a worthless accusation somehow constitutes an ass-kicking.

I haven't kicked your ass but, then again, why would I do that to something I own?

I know your reading comprehension is low, Toby, but what part of "and has connections, at least institutionally, to Ken Starr and other senior Republicans." do you not understand? It's not that far a stretch to figure that "other senior Republicans" includes Rove, when discussing GOP smears. Since Atwater is dead Rove is the Big Kahuna in that department. Don't be so obtuse, Toby, it ill becomes your shining intellect.

Let's just all agree that CBS news is a blight on journalism and move on.

djmoonbat, thank you.

On Sunday night, former FBI head Louis Freeh will introduce his salacious new Clinton tell-all book, My FBI, on CBS 60 Minutes. For Freeh, the book is an opportunity not only to cash in, but to lash out. Scolded by the 9/11 Commission and savaged by the critics of his tenure at FBI, Freeh is now getting a chance to tell his side of the story. It's too bad he doesn't seem to be telling the truth.

For the full story, see:

"Freeh at Last: Revenge and Revisionism at the FBI."

We better enjoy Toby's company while we can. I have a feeling that once the indictments in the Treasongate scandal start coming down we won't see his ugly mug around here, or at Eschaton.

We better enjoy Toby's company while we can.

I agree. He's like that ugly mongrel you really tried hard to give a home to. You try to overlook the crapping on the rug, and the all night barking, but you know in your heart the thing is fixin to go down hard at the pound.

Cause you are fixing to take it their personally. No need to make that poor dumb animals'last days less than pleasent.

I perdict when all this plays out, Toby will light a candle at his pathetic little shrine to dubya, put on some slow cryin-in-yer-beer country, and eat a shotgun.

Good bye sweet troll, we hardly missed ya.

Are you kidding me? I'm going to commit suicide because Karl Rove might get indicted? Grow up.

I perdict when all this plays out, Toby will light a candle at his pathetic little shrine to dubya, put on some slow cryin-in-yer-beer country, and eat a shotgun.

It's sad. Guys like Toby look up to the likes of Karl Rove and company, a bunch of third-rate intellects who parlayed their natural, atavistic viciousness into success through the magic--and funding--of the College Republicans.

But guys like Toby use "college boy" as an epithet, meaning that their cheeto-stained fingerprints will never appear on any kind of significant 'winger dirty tricks. They're doomed to be hyenas, working over a carcass long after the lions have had their fill.

Enjoy that rotten carrion while you can, punks.

I'd like to apologize. These feelings toward men, they overwhelm me. George Bush's swagger, his beady eyes, and his lack of a soul set fire to my heart. He's everything I want in a man.

CBS as liberal is a joke. CBS is owned by Viacom and its CEO proudly announced before the 2004 election that he was voting for Bush because it was in the best interest of Viacom.

It is not just CBS owners who are right leaning but also its advertisers. Check out the commercials. Every one of them are run by republican CEO's.

Hey, Toby:

Was Louis Freeh around at that meeting he describes? Five other folks say he's lying.

Oh, and Freeh was so busy sniffing through Clinton's underpants that he neglected to do his job. In fact, Freeh made it a point of pride to ignore Clinton's Executive Orders, such as this one, #12968, which requires financial-records checks on anyone with access to classified information.

If Freeh hadn't blown off implementing EO #12968, longtime spy Robert Hanssen would have been caught a good six years earlier than he was.

Steve, one thing:

Sandy Berger was never "discredited". Sandy Berger was attacked by the Bushistas for making copies of documents he himself had worked on during his tenure as National Security chief. (You know -- the guy who, unlike Condi, actually paid attention to the Al-Qaeda threat?) We're talking about documents that are only classified because BushCo doesn't want the world to know that Clinton and Berger, unlike Bush, actually worked to fight terrorists.

Some facts about the witchhunt against Sandy Berger:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200407230001

http://mediamatters.org/items/200508160002

Keep Toby and his sock puppets trapped here!

Operation Jam Jar has commenced!

from above referring to TANG memo:

Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe even speculated openly to reporters that the whole thing could have been orchestrated by White House political advisor Karl Rove. The Bush campaign called the allegation "nonsense."

from old washingtonpost referring to CIA agent outing:

In 2003, McClellan said it was "a ridiculous suggestion" that Rove was involved. "I've made it very clear, he was not involved, that there's no truth to the suggestion that he was," he said.

I see a pattern.

I see a pattern.

I see an on-going criminal conspiricy!

It's called the Republican party.

LOL Steve! Does it hurt you brain to twist that many facts in such a short period of time? Exactly how many Bush officials were allowed on 60 minutes to refute the infinite lies contained in those forged documents? Answer: Zero! Doesn’t it make you wonder why Killian didn’t come out with his documents during the election of say Bush 41 or during the two gubernatorial elections that Bush won? I have served in the Military and if Bush was as bad as they claim EVERYONE in that unit would know it and they would have no trouble digging up lots of people to support there claims.

Exactly how many Bush officials were allowed on 60 minutes to refute the infinite lies contained in those forged documents? Answer: Zero!

Cyber Stooge,

How many Bush administration figures served in TANG? Answer: Zero! (And, yes, I'm including G-Dub himself.)

So their ability to refute accusations related to Bush's "service" would naturally be quite limited.

I don't think you should be wasting valuable thought--thought which you could be using to wipe the drool from your chest--to advance these kinds of specious arguments.

D.:

How many Bush administration figures served in TANG? Answer: Zero! (And, yes, I'm including G-Dub himself.)

But that's manifestly false. After all, what is it that you godforsaken morons insist that Bush was AWOL from?

Folks, when a little boy like Toby drops a turd in the middle of the living room floor, you scold him.

However, when he drops a blog-turd at the beginning of a new thread, the proper response, while counter-intuitive, is to ignore him.

He can't even contemplate the idea that CBS might be just as "biased" against Clinton as they were against Bush. He hasn't thought objectively about this, ever, so who cares what crap he spouts?

In all liklihood what we have here is the result of infotainment. CBS needs viewers. They don't get them without controversy. They are willing to get a scoop, even if it means overlooking the little fact that their source has an agenda and might be lying.

That's a form of bias, but it's not liberal or conservative. If you really believe there is such a thing as liberal media bias, well, you live in la-la land (unless by liberal media you mean something very divorced from American politics). Sometimes, it can look like conservative bias, but I don't think that's it, either. Republicans have spent 30 years learning to work the refs (by their own admission), and they can control the news cycle to a significant degree and remarkably well, which is why it can seem sometimes like the media is conservatively biased.

But I think reality is that today, the news ain't all that different from Entertainment Weekly. That's what seems to be CBS's problem. While they still imagine they are journalists on 60 Minutes the reality seems a bit less. They are "talent." They're job is to sell adds. Truth, objectivity, fairness all take second seat to that. Folks like CBS and the New York Times get a lot of their "news" from the White House and Republican officials. Thus, much like ET can't piss of the big stars, a lot of the media has to play nice to certain segments of those in power.

Maybe you missed my use of the word "served."

My my how a little Clinton bashing gets the resident rightists all aflutter!

Look,

Soto made a ridiculous assertion and was properly called out on it.

The “60 Minutes” piece brought little new information.

I’m with dj on this one. Let’s just agree that the administration of the Criminal Clinton was a cum stain on the blue dress of history and move on.

I'm not a typography expert, but I am a computer nerd, who learned to type in the mid '70s in a classroom with half manual typewriters and half those newfangled Selectrics. The moment I saw the alleged TexANG documents I knew they were not done in the '70s on typewriters (only the kind of typesetting equipment used to prepare ), much less the sort that would have been in use by a General's secretary.

That's the whole point. Anyone with any experience with typewriters in the 70s knew it the typography wasn't legit. Anyone familiar with ANG terminology of the day knew it was wrong as well. The 60 Minutes team couldn't see any of that, because they didn't want to. The story was just too good.

So was this one.

This evenings show was CBS's kiss and make up for those paranoid NeoCons.

1) Let's Bash Clinton some more with someone in need of money, spotlight action and books sales. (oh, yeah...let's not bother to check the accuracy of his accusations....)

2) Let's remind those wealthy folks that, yes, eveyrone is out to screw them over and steal from them. Those "lowlifes", i.e., Americans who aren't millionaires, are plotting all the time to steal from them.

3) NASCAR...need I say more.

I didn't make a ridiculous assertion, and those of you who disagree are entitled to your opinion.

Why do you think the White House didn't demand Heyward's resignation when Mapes and others were sacked? Because they had already made their point and he was more valuable to them staying there cuckolded than leaving CBS News. Want proof? Have you seen Ed Bradley's Niger forgeries story broadcast on "60 Minutes" since Heyward pulled it? Didn't think so.

My thoughts on this aren't original; others who know the media business and who knew about the meeting between Bartlett and Heyward after the disaster had speculated the same thing to me by email at the time.

But I admit, every time I bring up the TANG stuff and Rathergate, it is fun to watch some folks' heads explode.

And yet none of you righty fucktards has provided a link proving the TANG documents were forged.

jwest, did you graduate 3rd grade or are you currently in 3rd grade?

So Toby, nobody visits or comments on your blog, so you come to lefty blogs to annoy the shit out of everybody? Priceless.

Cyber Sarge, you also know that Bush and other rich kids, including Bentsen's I believe served in the Champagne Squadron, so don't use the argument that Bush couldn't have been so bad because no one complained about him. His superiors did document him, and others said they never saw him.

I hesitate to even mention this because I get the feeling that it'll be ignored. But someone asked, so here are links to what you asked about. Free your mind and you know what will follow...

TANG document accuracy: Try several "conservative" sites, like Little Green Footballs (they also have these on the left on the front page), Power Line, also Captain's Quarters, Beldar. Links should be easy to find.

I was convinced that what CBS showed was written on a PC. Also was helped by the shifting stories of the guy who supposedly "found" them, and the denial by the family of the dead man who supposedly "wrote" them, and the dates in the documents referring to a man who had been out of the service for years (said general who has a high opinion of Bush, btw).

The provenance is important, not what words were written, like a fake check that is no less fake just because it was written out for a million bucks.

To the guys slagging Bush's service, it might also be notable that military people seem generally to sincerely respect the man's service, noting that the jet he flew was known to be a very dangerous job (had a nasty habit of killing the pilot). But your mileage may vary.

While I am not a Freeh fan. Think his failings had much to do with how 9-11 was not stopped (no CT here, just plain old bureacratic bumbling, but Clinton's bureacrat let's not forget) exactly why should the 'Mighty Wurlitzer' need to disprove the content of documents which did not exsist?

You know if the documents had been real it would have been one thing.... but they weren't. They weren't able to then and to my knowledge have never been able to produce the real thing (I'm sure Mapes and Rather would still like to lay their hands on them... if they ever exsisted).

Fake but accurate doesn't cut it. I don't find it too implausible to believe that Bush ducked out on (some part of?) his TANG duties but accurate or not if CBS was going to use documents as the evidence of a story they had to have the documents as the rest of their evidence was pretty thin or contested. They didn't and so the story imploded (rightly so) and became about them, their biases and most importantly about why they created or fell for someone elses creation of so easily identifiable forged documents.

This has nothing to do with the Freeh story that 60 minutes is going to air... but then you brought it up.

It's amazing that the Bush apologists are all in a flutter about CBS not noticing that a small piece of evidence of a true story MIGHT have been forged, but have no problem at all with Bush using PROVEN FORGERIES to claim that Iraq was trying to obtain yellowcake uranium from Africa.

I'll say it right here, right now: Clinton was scum, but he was thousands of times better for our country than the Bush Criminal Family.

If anyone is really interested in why "60 Minutes" is giving Freeh a free ride I suggest you follow the money. I don't care that much, so haven't looked into it, but they have a history of providing what amounts to free commercials for books that are being published or promoted within the CBS family (I seem to remember they did this with both Clintons).

Also, while I assume you were referring to Clinton when you said "they refused to allow a rebuttal ... unless it was the president himself," the title of President is different than all other elective offices, in that one does not retain it after leaving. So, while Bill Clinton is rightfully and properly refererred to as "Governor Clinton" it is never proper to refer to him as "President Clinton" unless speaking contenporaneously of events that transpired while he was in office. By design there is one and only one person with the title of President.

To prove this is not offered to bait the rabib Bush haters I note that he, too, will again be "Governor Bush" in 2009.

As a senior citizen, with a husband a Korean war vet. we both agree that anyone who is in the Bush Administration cult, has drank their purple
Koolaid, and lives in La, La, land.
The media, gutless wonders that they are, bought
and paid for by the neocons, have bloody hands!
Thank Goodness, they have President Clinton to blame all bush's and these neocon's failings on.
There isn't a law this stolen administration didn't break, and got away with it.
And where was the media? smearing the truth tellers!
L. Freeh, was President Clinton's the worse pick.
We all knew it then, and we know it know!

This bears repeating.

"It's amazing that the Bush apologists are all in a flutter about CBS not noticing that a small piece of evidence of a true story MIGHT have been forged, but have no problem at all with Bush using PROVEN FORGERIES to claim that Iraq was trying to obtain yellowcake uranium from Africa."

Amen.

Not to mention that whether Bushie skipped out on his guard duty (NO ONE can remember his presence there in the end) he got the cushy option to stay out of Viet Nam in the first place because his dad pulled strings for him --- so he let others go die in his stead, chicken shit that he is.

Meanwhile, these days, being in the National Guard means being shipped overseas to die for oil...and there aren't even enough Guard left here at home, where they belong, to deal with national crises.

But what can you expect from Bush supporters? Their hero walks around Japan with his fly open, writes notes to his nanny secretary Rice asking if hims can go pee-pee during the boring old UN meeting, and now is vetoing his first bill...to make sure our soldiers don't stop the torture tactics Mr. "Commander in Chief" ordered from the top while letting underling grunts from West Virginia rot in jail for following those very orders. I mean, nothing embarrasses them...not a "president" who can't even time his own potty breaks or zip up afterwards...and they'll SWALLOW any convoluted bullship excuse...such as the idea that a "few bad apples" from West Virginia shopped at their local Walmart to pick up a few black hoods and electrodes to pack in their duffel bags before shipping out to Iraq. Hey, if it's just a "little blowing off steam" then why is Lyndie England in jail? And if it's reprehensible and illegal...why is Bush condoning it by vetoing an anti-torture bill promoted by McCain and others?

Hey, if the army of morons who support Bush can simultaneously blame and excuse a "few bad apples" while Bushie keeps in place his TORTURE CAMPAIGN, don't expect them to make any useful contributions to ANY debate.

submandave:

the title of President is different than all other elective offices, in that one does not retain it after leaving.

That is the most ignorant thing I will read this week. Thanks for setting the bar so high.

Mike Wallace had his hand in his pants playing with his long lost love, he enjoyed during the Starr investigation. His smiley face during the interview with Freeh tells it all, CBS sucks, and so does Freeh.

TP,

We're somewhat in agreement.

Wonders.

I'll have to third that!

Anyone who doesn't know that it's traditional to refer to a former president as "President Clinton" or "President Bush" etc etc etc must spend a lot of time sub-something.

LOL!

I wonder what shit they'll make up to divert attentio from Rove, now that this attempt failed miserably?

another Congressional Bank check writing scanadal? ala 1991?

More Phillipine spies? from a month ago?

Shark Attacks?from the summer?

What color will the next "slung propaganda" be?

I thought this article by Carole Coleman, the Irish reporter who caused such a flurry by doing her job so well, was fascinating. (see link below) It gives some idea of the manipulation and abuse are subject to from this White House. If you recall, Bush was so incensed at having to deal with a real reporter, even though the questions were submitted ahead of time and vetted, that he filed a complaint with the Irish Embassy. She writes in her article that she was forbidden to speak to the president unless spoken to before the interview. One can only guess why. Bush unleashed?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,2766-1817008,00.html

A comment on the Toby phenomenon. The sites that handle trolls best,ignore them. That prevents them from monopolizing the whole discussion with their innane comments. They are on every alternative news website. My hunch is that it is a paid position. It would be interesting to trace who they are and if they are connected to the GOP or White House. An handful of paid attack dogs with a lot of email addresses?
Carol

Chap,

Providing links to conservoblogs aint gonna cut it. Either provide an actual link to a credible source, or quit wasting time.

Clinton was a cum stain on the blue dress of history

just as bush is a backhoe in the mass grave of history

Toby, It's morons like you that have put our country in the worst shape ever except during civil war times. We are the most hated and reviled nation---with good reason. Everyone I know and respect--anyone with the slightest bit of objectivity and intelligence is extremely ashamed and embarrassed to be American.

It has always been the "liberal" position while defending Clinton that he made a big mistake in allowing someone as incompetent as Freeh to become director of the FBI. If one looks at all of the money that the Clinton Administration gave to the FBI to be used to fight terrorism and for other purposes and how little they accomplished with all of this money, the real culprit is Freeh. I wish I could provide readers with stats on just how much money Clinton lavished on the FBI to help fight terrorism but I am sure these stats are easy to find online. RJ

So, John Kerry is "a bozo"?

Only a greed-head, cowardly Right-winger would think that callling a Vet names is patriotic.

Imagine these morons (or, as they spell it, "morans") if Democrats would call McCain "a bozo". Oh, my! THEN we would be traitorous, I'm sure! Because of course, RW'ers prefer the First Amendment to apply only to their red, white, and blue little Fascist selves (cf. Bush's vetted-only audiences at his "Town Hall" appearances).

"Stuffed the papers in his pants" burger??????????????????????????

WTF is that? Are we repeating media and republican lies here? isnt that what 60 minutes is complained of doing.

tsk, tsk.