People in the Sacramento area are encouraged to write a letter to the editor to the Sacramento Bee. Their article about Ms. Ambrosia's resignation is here.
Posted by CA Pol Junkie at October 16, 2005 10:12 PMI could understand it if she were gay, right? Can't have a gay teacher, right?
But what if she were the straight part of the alliance?
Is that wrong too, to like and/or appreciate and/or tolerate and/or trespect gay people?
By that line of reasoning Dick Cheney should disown his gay daughter, not use her to campaign for him.
This is a perfect example of why Democrats or Liberals or Progressives or Human Beans need to start getting these admin/management type jobs.
DKos had a diary about John Edwards becoming a part time consultant for some investment group, and what a sell out he was, and I tried to argue with them, how foolish and short sighted it was to think that way.
And the diarist kept saying things like, well, if he behaves in such and such a way it'll be okay, boy I sure hope so, he's playing with the devil and so on, and I'm just pulling my hair out.
Jeebus, we WANT people like him to have those jobs. What's he going to do, become a repuke because he suddenly deals in high finance or something?
Same thing here. These freaks don't deserve any jobs, but cleaning toilets and shoveling shit for penance.
Coz if I were the Principal of that school, I'd be thanking the woman for getting involved, and defending her for her respect for her fellow humans. Hell, I'd prolly give her an award!
Posted by Duckman GR at October 16, 2005 11:11 PMThis is a great example of why Dems should not go along with the GOP attempts at taking down 'trial lawyers'.
This teacher should engage a civil lawyer with expertise in this area (on a contingency fee basis, if necessary), and 'sue their asses off'. Only when the financial pain of discriminatory actions by public officals is so great that they can't afford a losing outcome will they temper their biases. The lawyer also needs to get a super expert on jury selection strategy to obtain a jury for the trial that is offended by official discrimination without cause.
Posted by JimPortlandOR at October 17, 2005 12:25 AMMy Arnie is gonna fire 'em all and hire real teachers.
Posted by muckhog at October 17, 2005 04:58 AMduckman, you have a few prejudices of your own: "cleaning toilets and shoveling shit for penance."
Almost sound like those people who think using prisoners for target practice is OK.
Posted by gail davis at October 17, 2005 08:42 AMWe think of California as among the bluest of blue states,
It is in the inner cities. But not in the 'burbs.
The city of Rocklin, while geographically in California, can seem like another world entirely. It is a deep red exurb of Sacramento, in a county which gave George W. Bush 63% last November.
Here, you make my point about the middle class and more affluent 'burbs being conservative.
I was told in June by an administrator that my teaching duties had been reassigned to World History. Anybody that knows me, knows my passion and expertise to be government and economics, so why the change?
OK, so why not have a club about government and/or economics if she considers her "passion and expertise" to be in government and economics? Geez, we sit here and wonder why are kids are falling behind kids in India and China. While we sit here arguing about a Gay-Straight club, they're studying science, math, and English. (Yes, English!) Then we wonder why companies choose to outsource to these countries. Maybe because they're producing smarter workers.
I think it's time somebody made a stand alright. It's time somebody to look at the mission statement for schools. Shouldn't it be to educate kids?
Posted by muckdog at October 17, 2005 09:15 AM>>Then we wonder why companies choose to outsource to these countries. Maybe because they're producing smarter workers.
Outsourcing white collar jobs to third world cesspools has zero to do with "smarter" workers and *everything* to do with ::::CHEAP:::: laborers who aren't paid holidays, personal days, retirement, 401(k) plans or any other bennies American employees are entitled to by law. The name of the game is LOWEST WAGE, not superiority. You've been sipping the koolaide from *that* particular trough for far too long. Best to stay with what you know...regurgitating reichwing talking points as espoused by Crush pass-the-oxycontin Lardbaugh.
Posted by Zen Warrior at October 17, 2005 10:09 AMgail, you may be right regarding having prejudices, I never said I was perfect, and I certainly wasn't trying to offend those people who do that for a living, just trying to find an unpleasant task for them to do. The key, though, is for them to do work that they would look down on, something they would find demeaning. I would find that sort of work smelly at least, but not demeaning.
Although, I think you've gone a bit overboard in your comparison. Or do you think I'm supporting what the school is doing? Actually, I'd like a further explanation of what you're getting at, if you don't mind.
Posted by Duckman GR at October 17, 2005 10:11 AMZen, many of those folks come over here and work. Have you taken a peak inside engineering, science, and technology divisions across America? Those aren't US-born citizens in there. And they're making high-five or six figure incomes.
While the US continues to outsource help desks and other back-office overhead, much of the work is still being done here. But the domestic talent pool is very skim.
This is really evident in government agencies. They employ lots of folks who are otherwise unemployable in the private sector.
Posted by muckdog at October 17, 2005 10:32 AMWhile we sit here arguing about a Gay-Straight club, they're studying science, math, and English. (Yes, English!)
It's a club, for gosh sakes, not a class. After school activities have little (if any) bearing on the school curriculum. Shocking, I know but I bet if you checked into the school's curriculum, you'd see they are teaching science, math and English, among other subjects.
Posted by ann at October 17, 2005 10:52 AMThis is really evident in government agencies. They employ lots of folks who are otherwise unemployable in the private sector.
Seriously, just look at the folks in the White House.
Posted by ann at October 17, 2005 10:53 AMHere, you make my point about the middle class and more affluent 'burbs being conservative.
Actually, suburbs in the Bay Area are mostly middle of the road to liberal. Marin County, north of San Francisco, is one of the most wealthy counties in America (if not the wealthiest), and it gave us Barbara Boxer. It's the exurbs, the farther out ring of rapidly growing cities, which are conservative.
Geez, we sit here and wonder why are kids are falling behind kids in India and China. While we sit here arguing about a Gay-Straight club, they're studying science, math, and English. (Yes, English!) Then we wonder why companies choose to outsource to these countries. Maybe because they're producing smarter workers.
That's exactly the point! The administration is dumping a good teacher because of a club that offends its sensibilities. Surely it's not worth harming children's education just to satisfy one's prejudices.
Posted by CA Pol Junkie at October 17, 2005 11:11 AMDuckman, yes my analogy was extreme.
Wanting them to do something they would not like to do or would think demeaning as a form of punishment is different from choosing those activities for them.
My concern is we teach everyone that certain jobs are demeaning and prove it by making them more dangerous than the need to be and usually very low paying. Something dangerous should pay more, not less. And any job should provide for a decent living.
Immigrants take care of our kids and clean our homes (if one has enough income that is). So these jobs are somehow menial? Taking care of children is menial? Keeping a house clean is menial? Keeping public facilities sanitary is menial? It's our assumptions I have a problem with. I've met people who like to clean (I'm not one of them) but really what's more menial about cleaning a toilet than taking an engine apart?
Poor health and poor food and cruelty and at the extreme end, being used as for target practice (which happened here in Arizona) is OK for prisoners.
'We' joke about frog-marching someone arrested by, or who we think should be arrested by, the authorities. Really why is ritual humilitation at the hand of law enforcement part of the punishment?
Cruelty just seems ingrained in our culture.
I don't think you practice the worst of these examples, it's just that they all seem to have similar roots to me. (And I'm not exempting myself from this criticism.)
Gail
Posted by gail davis at October 17, 2005 05:37 PMThanks for your response Gail.
They put Susan McDougal in leg irons and chains and marched her about the courthouses of America in their attempt to get her to spill the beans on Bill Clinton. Of course, there were no beans to spill, but hey, what's a little humiliation among friends, right?
Ritual is a part of society, meant to ingrain some sort of behavior or trait. Well, putting rove and cheney and delay in leg irons and chains and putting them on a nationwide tour seems like a good way to ingrain what sort of behaviors are frowned upon by society.
Treason. Crimes against Humanity. Hypocrisy. Mendacity. Hubris. Theft on an unimaginable scale. Murder. Torture. Greed. Wars of Aggression. Bribery. Perversion. Fascism.
That said, this has nothing to do with people who work for a living, regardless of the work. It's about learning. And people learn right and wrong by seeing consequences of ones actions. If a little well deserved humiliation is what makes that lesson come home, so be it.
Posted by Duckman GR at October 17, 2005 11:04 PMI see why the discussion is hopeless.
Susan McDougal should not have been paraded around in leg irons. Of course she should not have been in jail or harrassed either.
But seeing these cretins in leg irons --though they will probably most likely never be in prison for any lenghth of time, certainly not in the way endured by Susan McDougal-- will show is the system works. Right!
And it is about working people. It's about all of us. If leg irons and frog marching IS the sign of justice then it's just one more step in turning to the police and the jailers and not the courts and juries in establishing punishment.
PR is the key. Bush has trained us well.
Posted by Gail Davis at October 18, 2005 09:36 AMTolerance and Hypocrisy on Gay-Straight Clubs
Posted by OffTheFence at October 20, 2005 02:17 PM