Conservatism has always led to bad results for America.
Liberals made this country great.
Liberals freed the slaves.
Liberals got women the right to vote.
Liberals got us civil rights.
Liberals gave us the worker protections that led the great and unique American middle class. A middle class that made this country great and unique.
And you know what? Conservatives fought them every damn step of the way. Conservatism=fascism=failure.
It must be difficult to write these blog entries with what has been going on in France. Your model of societal perfection has revealed extreme poverty, slums, joblessness, poor education, etc... And you want to impose the French "stuff the beast" economic model on the US?
No thanks.
Posted by muckdog at November 8, 2005 02:49 PMForget it muckdog. These people worship at the altar of Trotsky and Lenin. You'll never convince them to stop selling their fellow men down the river.
Posted by A Former Democrat at November 8, 2005 02:59 PMIt's red baiting and name calling that caused me to leave the republic party.
Posted by a former republican at November 8, 2005 03:22 PMIt's the anti-american activities and stealing of the US Treasury that pushed me away from the republic party. Plus the male hookers in the white house. Hell, it's not even a party, it's more like a funeral.
Posted by another former pug at November 8, 2005 03:26 PMForget it muckdog. These people worship at the altar of Trotsky and Lenin. You'll never convince them to stop selling their fellow men down the river.
So why do you keep posting here?
Posted by Joe at November 8, 2005 03:52 PMSo why do you keep posting here? Posted by JoeBoth muckhog and AFD are Stalinists. Nothing, nothing will ever sway them from their cult of the leader. Nothing will ever penetrate their biases, their partisanship, and their ideology. They have nothing but hate for all who disagree. Even more than they hate liberals, they hate truth, as Bill Moyer said. Posted by Mike at November 8, 2005 04:47 PM
Ths frm prprtdly thrttv prst n th bcksd f th txpyr.
[Editor: ignore=off]Bennie - put the mirror down before you break it. Remember what Colin said about Iraq! Same thing applies to you and that mirror.
Posted by pessimist at November 8, 2005 05:07 PM"This from a purportedly authoritative parasite on the backside of the taxpayer."
Great line, Bendito!
Posted by Bagley at November 8, 2005 05:19 PMYour model of societal perfection...
Whoa! Stop the presses, I hereby nominate for "Best Leap in Logic 2005" award.
Posted by Simp at November 8, 2005 05:32 PM"parasite on the backside of the taxpayer"
You're talking about corporations, right?
Or you talking about Bush, whose salary I'm paying and let me say, he's getting the better end of THAT deal.
Posted by Sharon at November 8, 2005 05:36 PMBill Moyers was Johnson's White House Press Secretary from 1965 to 1967, acting as the "voice of the whitehouse" during a major expansion in the Vietnam War.
During this time frame, the first American ground troops (Marines) arrived in Danang.
During this timeframe, US troop levels in Vietnam increased to over 200,000.
During this time frame, B-52s began bombing North Vietnam for the first time.
Now, the leftist position on the Vietnam War was that the US was waging an imperialist war on a people that never posed a threat to the United States.
With respect to Mr. Moyers’ critique of the war in Iraq, he seems to be coming late to the leftist (party) line.
Unless, of course, his time as White House Press Secretary was simply: opportunism. (Might his entire career simply be an extension of a rather unsavory personal characteristic?)
The political climate was never as vitriolic as it is now. At least we can say we learned from Vietnam and not repeat a disaster!
How do you defend Jeane Kirkpatrick, she started out as a Marxist! Then she pratically writes the book for the neo-cons. Talk about opportunism!
Posted by bbtb at November 8, 2005 06:03 PMNot only is Bendito not the only random-syntax-generating Perl script out there, he's far from the best. (Refresh a few times for full effect.)
Posted by dj moonbat at November 8, 2005 06:24 PMLiberals freed the slaves. Yes, Abraham Lincoln (a Republican) is considered a liberal in the classical sense.
Liberals got women the right to vote. Yes, (the) American Woman Sufferage Association was a Republican organization. It was founded, in part, by Susan B. Anthony.
Liberals got us civil rights. Yes, in spite of Bull Conner and Robert Byrd (both Democrats), Republican and Democrat legislators passed the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
Liberals gave us the worker protections that led the great and unique American middle class. No, the great and unique American middle class is a function of disposable income.
"At least we can say we learned from Vietnam and not repeat a disaster!"
Yes, some of ushave learned: how many millions dies in the Vietnam re-education camps and the Killing Fields of Cambodia after we pulled out of the war? How many boat people drowned? How poverty-stricken is the country of Vietnam now?
And how many of the terrorists that are now dead in Iraq would be plotting bombings in the United States if they were not, in fact, dead in Iraq?
Jeane Kirkpatrick wa mever a Marxist. Her principle advisor when she was in Graduate School was a Marxist. Ms. Kirkpatrick was actually a Democrat in her early political life (...probably as a result of her Graduate School experience). She grew away from the Democratic Party during the Cater Administration and, eventually, joined up with Ronald Reagan.
Posted by Bagley at November 8, 2005 06:29 PMShorter Bagley, et al:
Chappaquiddick !!
Hanoi Jane !!
KKK !!
Posted by idiosynchronic at November 8, 2005 06:31 PMQuick correction, Jeane Kirkpatrick was never a Marxist in her public, political life.
Posted by Bagley at November 8, 2005 06:32 PMidiosynchronic,
Chappaquiddick !!...Ted Kennedy. Dead girl in the car. Yeah, I know about it. It is a fact.
Hanoi Jane !!....Jane Fonda. Yeah, I know about it. That whole "posing with the anti-aircraft gun" thing. It is a fact.
KKK !!...Robert Bryd. Yeah, I know about it. Bryd was in the KKK. It is a fact.
And these facts are supposed to represent what exactly?
Posted by Bagley at November 8, 2005 06:38 PMHaving read the article in full, I tend to agree with Moyers. A hideous mix of venality, pettiness, and self-righteousness has been injected into the body politic, a poison unto death.
Posted by Evagrius at November 8, 2005 07:18 PMThanks for the "quick correction"!! I almost had to verbally go off on you!!
Posted by bbtb at November 8, 2005 07:21 PMHey bagley,
I remember when you didn't know tempus was a vet. I also remember when you said English was not your original language.
In some places, we had elections. Why weren't they as heralded as other news? Bagley, why havent't you spoken out on the elections that happened here, in the US? Why have you not laid your opinion on those elections? I'm curious. What do you make of the results of the elections here in our country? Elections that mean something to this country, to our honor, to our land?
Bagely, do you stand with the party that has given us lies and backstabbing? Really do you?
I remember the day when you questioned tempust's service. Do you? You looked a little silly that day.
Can you argue the elections in this country tonight?
Posted by dorita at November 8, 2005 08:40 PMBagley must be alone in thinking that the press secretary sends troops into combat; Scotty better watch his ass.
Posted by Brian Boru at November 8, 2005 10:36 PMThanks for the post, larre. I really miss hearing Bill Moyers every week on PBS. He has a wonderful cadence and gift for expressing truth with vivid and truthful analogies. What a mensch.
Posted by Mary at November 8, 2005 11:26 PMAs a lefty, I don't have to answer to Vietnam. I was born in 1965. I had very little to do with the decision making at the time. I voted not for the war.
I do not vote for war now. I vote that there is to be accountability from leadership to be responsible for what they have done. I vote that they answer any question posed about the responsibility wrought on us from their actions. As an American, I have to, at some point, shoulder some of the blame for what has happened. The administration shall have shame shine upon it if I have anything to say.
Posted by obelus at November 8, 2005 11:46 PMLBJ (no relation) pushed Vietnam because that soft-focus saint Goldwater and the fucking China Lobby were watching every move he made so as to accuse him, McCarthily, of being "soft on communism" so the white trash predecessors of today's trolls could strike back against the Civil Rights movement. But what else is new? The Repubs blathering about Byrd's KKK membership 60 years ago and how Lincoln freed the slaves reminds me of what an Austrian told me once, how they have a saying that the best thing Austria ever did was to convince the world that Mozart was Austrian and Hitler was German. They got away with it, but they were below the radar ...
Posted by jlb at November 9, 2005 01:52 AMLESSONS FOR IDIOTS
Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to children when GOPers say things like this:
----------------
"Liberals freed the slaves. Yes, Abraham Lincoln (a Republican) is considered a liberal in the classical sense.
Liberals got women the right to vote. Yes, (the) American Woman Sufferage Association was a Republican organization. It was founded, in part, by Susan B. Anthony.
Liberals got us civil rights. Yes, in spite of Bull Conner and Robert Byrd (both Democrats), Republican and Democrat legislators passed the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
------------------
Uh.. McFly! Did they not teach political science at stars and bars high school? JESUS MAN!! I strongly suggest you go out and get your GED so as not to humiliate yourself like this.
REALIGNMENT Ever heard the term? How about THE SOUTHERN STRATEGY? Since you seem to have intellect of a four year old I'll teach you this bit of history by telling you a story.
There once was country called the United States of America. They had a political party in the CONSERVATIVE CONFEDERATE SOUTH. They were called the Democrats. There was also another political in the party in the more progressive north. They were called the Republicans.
The Democrats in the the CONSERVATIVE CONFEDERATE AGRICULTURAL SOUTH loved slavery. They saw it as the only way they could compete with the industy in the PROGRESSIVE REPUBLICAN NORTH. So they went to war and got hammered.
They stayed CONSERVATIVE CONFEDERATE DEMOCRATS in the south basically until Lyden Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act in 1964. Unpon signing that document he is said to have turned to an aid and remarked "There goes the south".
He was of course predicting two mainstays of American political history.
1) REALIGNMENT - The REALIGNMENT of the CONSERVATIVE CONFEDERATE SOUTH from the Democratic Party to the Republican Party and the PROGRESSIVE INDUSTRIAL NORTH to the Democratic Party. and...
2) THE SOUTHERN STRATEGY - The strategy the NEW RACIST REPUBLICANS used to make sure this happened.
What all this means Tex, is that the GOP is the party of Lincoln in name only. In todays terms he was a DEMOCRAT of the day. And TRUST ME, womens sufferage was not born in the south. Those KKK lovers were/are trying to keep Black folk from having their right to vote.
And it also means todays Republican party was built on the back of racism and discrimination. Anyway, nice education you have their Tex. And nice party.
Posted by The Truth at November 9, 2005 05:59 AMDorita,
“I remember when you didn't know tempus was a vet.”
I do not remember anything specific about tempus. I do know that a lot of lefties pretend to be vets. I assume that these particular posters think that this lends some credibility to their musings.
“I also remember when you said English was not your original language.”
English is not my first language.
“Bagley, why havent't you spoken out on the elections that happened here, in the US? Why have you not laid your opinion on those elections? I'm curious. What do you make of the results of the elections here in our country? Elections that mean something to this country, to our honor, to our land?”
I said what I had to say in the voting booth. The results of these elections are as expected in NJ and VA. A little surprising in CA, though.
With every election here in the US I am amazed: the participation of the American people in the govenance of this country is something to hold very dear.
“Bagely, do you stand with the party that has given us lies and backstabbing?”
No, I stand with the people who understand that the West in in a fight for its very existence. Do you understand what your life would be like if you lived in an Islamic-Fundamentalist society? (Have you ever visited a Muslim country? I have. The most benign Muslim country is an anathema to your progressive ideology.)
“I remember the day when you questioned tempust's service. Do you? You looked a little silly that day.”
Actualy, on second thought, if tempus was the poster who participated in the thread concerning “dishwashers in the military,” then I do think that tempus decided (in that thread) to abandon any pretense of prior military service.
“Can you argue the elections in this country tonight?”
No. Why would I?
Brian Boru,
“Bagley must be alone in thinking that the press secretary sends troops into combat”
Actually, the function of the Press Secretary is to give public voice to Administration decisions. As such, Mr Moyers was the LBJ Administration’s public voice and advocate for the depolyment of Marines to Vietnam, the bombing of North Vietnam, and the increase in troop levels to over 200,000.
How is it that you do not understand this?
obelus,
A very reasoned post. Thank you.
jib,
I must say, one of the more incoherent posts in this thread.
The Truth,
Your reality picture seems to include lots and lots of capital letters. Lots of conjecture and personal opinion, also. Demonstrably weak in history: I fail to understand the reference to womens sufferage having born in the South. I, certainly, have made no reference to this historical inaccuracy.
However, I am very curious, in that Bull Connor and Robert Byrd (a member of the KKK) and George Wallace and Al Gore, Sr. were Democrats during their careers, how is it possible that they were simultaneously “new racist republicans.” Remember that George Wallace was last elected – on the Democratic ticket – as Governor of Alabama in 1982, and that Robert Byrd still serves in the Senate. (Or is it the case that the Southern “new racist republicans” were, and still are in the case of Senator Byrd, voting the Democratic ticket?)
Robert Byrd was the ONE KKK lover that actually stayed in the Democratic party. All the other racists left and went to the Republican Party. That's what the SOUTHERN STRATEGY was all about. There is mountains of evidence that shows the GOP is a fundamentally racist party today and history reveals its racist roots.
Posted by The Truth at November 9, 2005 05:00 PM"All the other racists left and went to the Republican Party."
Names, please. Specifically, names of those currently serving in public office.
"There is mountains of evidence that shows the GOP is a fundamentally racist party today and history reveals its racist roots."
Please identify the mountain.
As I posted,
"... Lots of conjecture and personal opinion, also. Demonstrably weak in history..."
Posted by Bagley at November 9, 2005 05:10 PMBagly asked me to name any "currently serving" GOPers who was a Dem racist but switched to the GOP during Realignment. No it seems conservatives not only know very little about hisotry, but they can't really read either. Realignment and the Southern Strategy took place in the 50's, 60's and 70's. Do the math.
Anyway, he asked for examples of the institutional racism in the current and past GOP. I'll start the list. Anybody who would like to add to it, feel free!!
Just of the top of my head:
--David Duke
--Strom Thurman
--Jesse Helms
--Bob Barr
--The CCC
--Charles Davidson
--Anti-hate crime legistation
--Helen Chenowith
--The white militia movement
--The white supremisest movement
--The confederate flag politics
--The confederate flag over the statehouse in Georgia
--The confederate flag over the stathouse in S Carolina.
--Southern white men are the most racist in the country. The south is the power base of the GOP.
--All the racists that had to resign from Bush 1 campaign when their backround was revealed.
--Nixon
--J Edgar Hooever
--Trent Lott