Yes it is the end of Democracy, if you can't have a fair or near fair election then we will not have gains to obtain a majority in either house or the presidency. Democracy in America is over as we know it as long as the results of voting are controlled not by the choice of voters but the choice of those who control the counting of ballots. Sad, very sad.
Posted by condor at November 13, 2005 01:33 AMJoe Stalin smiles on Ohio Diebold!
Posted by pessimist at November 13, 2005 02:52 AMI'm sure the Republican Congress will very soon enact legislation to restore faith in federal elections by requiring paper back-up for touch screen voting. And Bush will certainly sign it.
And pigs will fly.
I'd like to blame the Dems for never talking about election reform, but they've got so much to not talk about, it's hard for them to choose.
Posted by euzoius at November 13, 2005 06:20 AMWhat I don't understand is there is proof that the software was set-up to be tampered with, yet Ohio continues to use the Diebold equipment.
Posted by Judith at November 13, 2005 06:21 AMWell, I think Ohio is currently governed by Republicans, and they have a vested interest in holding elections whose results can be controlled.
All the proposed "reforms" in Ohio failed, didn't they?
Posted by euzoius at November 13, 2005 06:43 AMUnfortunately, the key decision-makers regarding the use of Diebold technology are all conveniently Repug. Hold on, I thought Dem's were the high-tech wonder kids, and the Repugs were just becoming aware of electricity. Something is very wrong here.
Has anyone seriously tried to hack a Diebold machine? Might be worthwhile, as the future of America has already been grossly perverted by the use of the things.
Posted by tempus at November 13, 2005 06:44 AMOh, tempus, you're really opening a can of worms with that question, and it's way beyond my knowledge of the subject.
Soon after the 2004 election, lots of work was done looking at the abundant technical and security flaws of these machines, I think, so googling the subject would reveal lots of info.
The link to Seeing the Forest on this post itself details a New Mexico touch screen voting case currently being litigated, I think.
Posted by euzoius at November 13, 2005 06:58 AMEven more interesting (disturbing) is that the GAO report that came out Oct. 21 was virtually ignored by the MSM. The report stated:
"[C]oncerns about electronic voting machines have been realized and have caused problems with recent elections, resulting in the loss and miscount of votes."
Links to both the GAO report and the press release from the House Government Affairs, Judiciary and Science and Technology Committee can be found here:
Please read and spread this website and encourage people to at least read the TECHNOLOGY and THE COMPANIES Chapters. This one is up to us as it's not only the MSM not talking about it...
There's also a chapter called But What Can I Do."
Posted by jen at November 13, 2005 07:01 AMI do not understand why the "media" is not giving these types of stories any coverage? Help me out... from the 2004 election in Ohio... is this an urban legend? I read that exit polls were only accurate in precincts without touch screen Diebold machines? Is that true?
Posted by lefty at November 13, 2005 08:59 AMI live in Ohio
Not everyone voted on touch screen machines
My vote WAS RECORDED ON PAPER RECORD--this is fact I read it on paper myself
Just for fun if DIEBOLD was so crocked and was able to maniplate software so well WHY WOULD THEY MESS with an ELECTION? They could make all the money they want since they make such a latrge percentage of electronic bank terminals( ATM's).
Just my opinion
Bob K
A Soldiers Father
Hi Bob K!
I strongly urge you to check out the link I posted above to Who's Counting and read "The Companies" chapter.
There are sections in that Chapter on all the electronic election manufacturers. Read the Diebold section. I think your question will be answered but I also think you'll be quite shocked. Seriously.
This is a snip from the Diebold section of "The Companies" chapter:
Diebold Company CEO, Wally O’Dell, and longtime Diebold Director and Chairman “Tim” Timken, are steadfast Republican Loyalists and major contributors to Republican candidates, including George W. Bush. Both are members of Bush’s “Pioneers and Rangers” program, donating from $100,000 to over $350,000 respectively to President Bush’s reelection campaign, thereby being invited to the Crawford Ranch in appreciation. Timken’s company and family have contributed over a million dollars to the GOP.
-snip-
My personal favorite Diebold exec. biography is the one of its former Senior Vice President and Director (when it was “Global Election Systems”) ---and Senior Programmer in 2001 and 2002, just prior to the Diebold acquisition-- Jeff Dean. Dean is credited with the “upgrades” to the GEMS programs. According to Bev Harris of BlackBoxVoting, besides his work on the tabulator systems, Dean was largely responsible for programming a version of the Optical Scan software that was widely used in our last election. And the Windows CE operating system used by the Touch Screens as well.
It is reported that no less than five of Diebold Election Systems developers are convicted felons, but Dean’s case takes the cake. Beginning in 1982, he was working at a Seattle law firm, Culp, Gunderson & Grader, in accounting systems. In 1988, the firm noticed some discrepancies in their books… Jeff Dean had altered the books and embezzled the money for himself over a two and a half year time frame at the firm. He eventually pled guilty to 23 counts of felony theft in the first degree, which are enumerated in his case no. 89-1-04034-1. The record stated that:
"the crimes and their cover up involved a high degree of sophistication and planning in the use and alteration of records in the computerized accounting system that defendant maintained for the victim, and the defendant used his position of trust and fiduciary responsibility as a computer systems and accounting consultant for the victim to facilitate the commission of the offenses—"
Dean was convicted in 1989 and sentenced to six years in prison. As part of his sentence, the Judge ordered Dean to inform any and all future employers of his felony conviction, and instructed him that under no circumstances would he be permitted to handle other people’s money after he was released. Unfortunately for Americans, the Judge’s reprimand fell short of prohibiting Dean from handling other people’s votes...
-much more at Who's Counting
Unfortunately, Diebold is not the only electronic election company owned and run by convicted felons... All information on the website is refereneced for people to check for themselves - it's most disturbing...
I hope your son is safe. -jen
Posted by jen at November 13, 2005 01:17 PMFirst the butterfly ballot was confusing and hard to use. Now computers don't count the votes accurately.
I guess you might as well give up.
Hoenstly, when you are you going to stop blaming the voters or the voting machines for your problems. If you want to start winning elections, a little introspection on what you're doing wrong might help. That's what conservatives did in the 1970's that led to the Reagan era.
That and waking up to the realization that the liberal MSM in promoting your agenda is actually screwing you. You keep relying on pre-election polls done my the media. Out of curiosity, I went to the archives and read what was posted in the days leading up to the 2004 election. Everyone was touting the Gallup poll that showed a close race and had an oversampling of Republicans. Thus everyone here was projecting a Kerry win. A logical assumption I'll admit, IF that poll had been accurate. Well, that poll turned out to be wrong. How much longer are you going to let polls dictate your life (especially when they have a long history of being wrong?)
My suggestion would be to check out Rasmussen.com He does a poll every day and calculates the average over the previous 3 days. Much more accurate and not prone to fluctuations. His polls were the closest to predicting the outcome last year.
Posted by The Real Truth at November 13, 2005 01:55 PMLook, I'm all for basting one's self in conspiracy theories once in a while, but don't you think this is a little thin? Steve would be the first one to tell you that a poll isn't predictive of who actually shows up to vote, so unless the polls you cite were of likely voters your post is pretty pointless.
Posted by Pastrami at November 13, 2005 02:36 PMTRT - I wish it were simply a matter of Dems losing and polls being wrong. Please, I'm begging you, go check the website I keep linking here. The information is referenced for people to check for themselves - we are not just putting out opinion and theories. Even if you just read THE COMPANIES and the TECHNOLOGY chapters you'll see what we're up against.
This has nothing to do with Dems or Repubs. This has to do with "we the people" being able to have our voices heard through our votes.
Right now, if you're a Repub things are good because ALL the electronic election companies are owned and run by people who support the Repub party. But if things get to the point where you are not happy with the choices big business is giving you I'm afraid at that point you'll realize what's going on but it will be too late... maybe it is already. The strange thing is Dems also know about these machines. Howard Dean hacked into one of the tabulators himself, yet no one says a peep about it.
There's a lawsuit in NM going on right now (no you won't read about it even in the local NM papers) and although the machines were supposed to be inspected by computer experts, all of a sudden ES&S is saying NO, no one can look inside these computers...
"San Juan County Clerk Fran Hanhardt permitted limited inspection of her countys voting machines. She would not, however, open the voting machines to permit plaintiffs experts to examine their components. The experts included Dr. David Dill, a computer science professor from Stanford University with extensive knowledge of electronic voting machine issues. The reason? Doing so would void the Countys warranty from the manufacturer, Election Systems and Software (ES&S).
Cont. at BRAD BLOG
Posted by jen at November 13, 2005 02:47 PMJen, you must be new here, or you wouldn't be trying to reach the humanity of Real Kool Aid. He has no interest in "we the people" arguments.
The means (election fraud) justify the ends (Republican victory). So our trolls don't have much concern about rigged elections---and we're described as paranoid for thinking there's even an issue!
And Real Kool Aid, we'll definitely look closely at your ideas for how to promote progressive values and policies, cause we know you really have our best interests at heart.
Posted by euzoius at November 13, 2005 03:59 PMThanks euzolus, yes I'm new here - thanks for the heads up.
This blog was linked at my "home" blog where many of us are working on getting people informed on what has happened to our election system. We go anywhere and everywhere spreading the website "Who's Counting" that we just launched about a month ago.
My friend who wrote the "report" realized that to get everyone informed she had to approach the issue in a way that wouldn't "turn off" people who voted for someone or something that won - hopeful that if she presented truth and facts backed up with references, anyone who read it would realize that this is much bigger than Dems losing and Repubs winning - that it's about the loss of the basis of our democracy.
The fact that the MSM nor either party talk about this is a pretty good indication that Corporate power has a lot more control than anybody realizes. It's going to take all of us together to fight this battle.
I do feel hopeful that it is only a small portion of the populace who are either brainwashed, braindead or Fundamentalists. Once the divide between true conservatives and the fringe nut cases widens enough that sane, thinking people finally see what's happening I think we'll have a chance to save our country.
If not, my passport is in order.
Please spread the website far and wide!
Whos' Counting
(btw, my home blog is Clark Community Network (CCN))
Posted by jen at November 13, 2005 04:57 PM
did you think they were going to just give it up? No, it will take a revolution.
Posted by T2 at November 13, 2005 05:51 PMDoes anyone know if exit polls were done? If exit polls were showing that 60% of voters supported the reforms, then there's a problem. I wonder if the Columbus Dispatch will revisit the issue and try to figure out if its polling went wrong or if something else went wrong. given the passive nature of the press anymore, probably won't do a thing.
Here ya go lou:
Ohio: Alarming Comparisons of Pre-Election Polls and Official Results for Reform Ohio Now Initiatives
by Warren Stewart, Director of Legislative Issues and Policy VoteTrustUSA
...Fitrakis and Wasserman note that while the historically reliable pre-election poll conducted by the Columbus Dispatch was typically accurate in predicting the official results for the first ballot initiative it was radically off in predicting easy victories for three of the four RON initiatives. The paper's last poll published on Sunday, November 6, the Dispatch showed Issue One passing with 53% of the vote and the initiatived passed in the official tallies with 54% of the vote.
For the Reform Ohio Now initiatives it was another matter. The Dispatch poll showed Issue Two, which called for no excuse absentee voting, passing by a vote of 59% to 33%, with about 8% undecided, an even broader margin than that predicted for Issue One. But on November 8, the official vote count, Issue Two went down to defeat by the astonishing margin of 63.5% against, with just 36.5% in favor.
Similarly Issue Three, which dealt with campaign finance reform, was predicted by the Dispatch to win in a landslide, with 61% in favor and just 25% opposed. But on Tuesday, Issue Three lost in perhaps the most astonishing reversal in Ohio history, claiming just 33% of the vote, with 67% opposed. The other two reform initiatives on the ballots suffered similar reversals. Significantly, almost half the state’s counties were using touch screen voting machines for the first time. Read the Entire Article:
Has American Democracy died an electronic death in Ohio 2005's referenda defeats?
Hopefully we can all agree that we should have the best elections we can, in terms of mechanics. I don't think the electronic machines, with over complex software, no paper trail and proprietary source code are the best we can do.
Citizens can change this. Most election equipment in most states, as well as the detailed processes, are done at the county level. That's a pretty accessible level of government. I audited the techniques used in my old county and felt they were fair and fraud free.
As far as I know Ohio has no law requiring use of Debold machines.
Posted by just a visitor at December 11, 2005 04:44 AMTIME TO TAKE THIS COUNTRY BACK PEOPLE SCREW POLITICS. LETS VOTE INDEPENDED...DEMS DO NOTHING BUT SIT THERE AND REPUBLICANS ARE TAKING ARE RIGHTS AWAY AND NOW VOTING WITH THIS BULLSHIT DEBOLD VOTING STEALING MACHINE..AT LEAST BERNIE SANDERS IS SPEEKING UP..
Posted by jeff at February 8, 2006 12:08 AMHow the hell do I send a comment to Debold. I think they should now of my outrage I have for their iresponsibility!
Posted by Matt Minahan at November 5, 2006 10:30 AM