I agree about McCain. He's debased himself in the most horrendous ways. When he was viciously attacked in South Carolina by Bush and Rove it was clear his bid for the presidency was over, but he recovered his credibility by speaking the truth and apologizing for putting politics ahead of his convictions. Yet only a few years later he was sucking up to Bush in order to maintain his standing in the Party, and recently he's been carrying so much water for the floundering administration you'd think his name was Scooter McCain. Sad and pathetic both.
As to Hagel, I also agree. He's been outspoken for quite a while, and his blast yesterday was truly courageous given the nationalism Bush continues to foster. It's interesting now in the Senate, with McCain and Kerry on opposite sides of the withdrawal issue. Hagel leans toward Kerry's position, but I'm not sure how much he can leverage other Republicans to sign on.
Posted by Beacon at November 15, 2005 11:42 PMI agree with you there, steve, Hagel seems like a pretty decent man from what I have read. he's from what I call the internationalist wing of the republican party which hasn't been heard from much in the last five years, but as the influence and media interest in the neo-cons wanes, we'll be hearing more from more 'moderate' and reasonable men like Hagel.
I don't support his positions on Iraq, as I believe in withdrawal, and pronto, but I admire Hagel's equanimity and his criticisms of the bushivites the last few months have been on the mark. He sees the damage their policies have done to the US national interests overseas.
tpm cafe has a report on his speech at the CFR, and I like this quote particularly:
"The recent media reports of a worldwide American system of secret, black-hole jails, run by the Central Intelligence Agency, and developed explicitly to circumvent our obligations under the Geneva Convention, sullies everything that America represents."
amen.
http://houseoflabor.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/11/15/16160/537
and shame on the bushites for even suggesting torture as an option. and may they all some day be brought before a war crimes tribunal.
Posted by michael72 at November 16, 2005 02:48 AMBeacon, McCain wants to run for the Presidency. He needs Bush and the far-right base. This proves he has sold his soul, and will live to regret that decision.
Posted by Judith at November 16, 2005 03:24 AM"Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.) strongly criticized yesterday the White House's new line of attack against critics of its Iraq policy, saying that "the Bush administration must understand that each American has a right to question our policies in Iraq and should not be demonized for disagreeing with them." WashingtonPost
That statement is certainly not the Party line. Perhaps Hagel would like to consider joining the Democratic Party. He certainly sounds like a Democrat.
He also looks like a Democrat. LOL
Posted by Judith at November 16, 2005 04:18 AMBush says we "are sending mixed signals to our troops and the enemy. And that's irresponsible."
Talk about irresponsible. What about all those "mixed signals" on why we went to war in the first place, Georgie?
Lost all respect for McCain years ago when the Rove smear machine went after McCain's wife during the campaign and tried to paint her as pothead and a crackpot and McCain did and said nothing. He's a wus. Frankly, I'm amazed that McCain, as a US Senator, has so much time to endlessly appear on TV. Isn't he a lawmaker and doesn't he represent Arizona? I doubt the good people of Arizona knowingly elected a media whore to the Congress.
I was also glad to see Hagel hold Bush's size 5 cowboy boots to the fire. With the midterms in 100 months, expect to see more Republicans find a spine and part company with the sinking USS George Bush as it runs amok.
.
Well, you really have to hand it to McCain. Over the years the administration and Republican Party have accused him of fathering a black baby out of wedlock, being mentally challenged due to the seven years of torture spent in North Vietnam, labeled him a "maverick" and shunned him, passed him over for leadership within the party, and yet he crawls back for more.
My respect and admiration for McCain disolved when at the last minute he was called on and he became a piece of buttwipe for Bush's reelection campaign and turned on his close friend and fellow Vietnam Veteran who had even offered him a share in leading this country.
McCain has no credibility left and has reduced himself to being a dupe and a tool of the rightwing of the Republican party.
Posted by Hank at November 16, 2005 05:21 AMI used to hold McCain and Hagel up as two Republicants who cared about their country.
I think McCain does, but he cant over come his reflexive desire to be a politician first.
Hagel I like a lot. If we own both houses in 08, I would be just fine with him as president.
If the Joes get nominated by the Dems, I would even vote that way.
One Republican out of how many?
Sad
Posted by SnarkyShark at November 16, 2005 05:48 AMNever forget who Hagel is: http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0131-01.htm
He's getting out ahead of the crowd in repudiating Bush. This is extremely dangerous; as Dr. Tom More (http://moquol.squarespace.com/journal/) keeps warning, the Republicans are going to make like there's no difference between them and the Dems and run as house-cleaning reformers. We used to call this co-opting.
Hagel is a Republican who steals elections. And they don't do that to do right by the working man.
Posted by gmanedit at November 16, 2005 05:51 AMHagel is DieBold.
.
Crtnly mrcns hv th rght t crtcz, bt fnnng th flms f jhd by dmggng nd prpgtng fbls s njrs t th ntnl ntrst. Whn n pltcl prty cncrs wth th nmy drng tm f wr, th ntr ntn s prcvd s rrslt, whch nly strngthns th pstn f ths wh sk r dstrctn.
[Editor: ignore=off]
I agree with gmanedit. Hagel may be even scarier than Bush. Suppose you wanted to take over a country like the US. You could just rig the voting machines and win by a landslide, but that would look very suspicious. There would be all sorts of questions, and potentially you would get caught.
Much better to run a few idiots through the process first, so that the claims about rigged elections would seem old hat by the time you came in, calm and reasonable and said to America "Don't worry honey, I'll save you!"
Hagel was a surprise out-of-nowhere dark horse victor in an election that was counted entirely by machines made by his company. It was his first bid for public office, and he was relatively unknown on election day.
Early on, they passed a law making it illegal to count the ballots any other way--even recounts must use the machines made by Hagel's company. The same machines, incidentally, that were used in elections for several of Dean's surprising early primary losses.
Hagel has been consistently distancing himself from Bush for years, even when it seemed political suicide to do so. His actions in general only seem consistent with a longer range plan than any politician who has to worry about getting re-elected can afford.
My take? The Neocons may well be a hat on a stick, poked around the corner to draw fire and ire, till it gets so bad that we will welcome our new corporate overlords with open arms.
-- MarkusQ
Posted by MarkusQ at November 16, 2005 06:15 AMCertainly Americans have the right to criticize, but fanning the flames of jihad by demagoguing and propagating fables is injurious to the national interest. When one political party concurs with the enemy during time of war, the entire nation is perceived as irresolute, which only strengthens the position of those who seek our destruction.
There you go again.
Seriously, are like looking for a job as George Will's quote boy? Or are you just attempting to steal his writing style while armed with little more than a 75 IQ and a new theosarus?
Posted by idiosynchronic at November 16, 2005 06:27 AMWho gives a shit about McCain or Hagel. Is anybody out there in LC land proud to be an American anymore? I'm not!!!! The situation is so dire, military retirees are urged to re-enlist to free up younger soldiers to serve in the Middle East theaters. This has been going on for a while I understand. Soldiers in their seventies with full benefits, are hunkering over computers at forts and camps across the USA so young 'uns can friggin' die for Bush's lie! This is the new draft? I knew retired federal workers are working in offices because kids out of college screw around and don't work. Eighty-year olds and ninety-year olds are pushing nine to five! My mom is one. She's at EPA in Arlington, Va. She's eighty-five! We have so much to look forward to as we age, Lefties! This country sucks! What's pissed me off is the Pentagon's admission about the white phosphorus and the torture crap. The United States of Soviet America! Citizens don't seem to get it! We can use WP on Iraquis, we can torture them. It can happen to us. We can be picked up and dissapeared, we can be tortured by eighty year old Federal workers in the CIA! What the hell is going on?
And another thing before I take my morning stroll to the nearest liquor store, the most specious notion I've heard lately: Hillary or Condi for first woman president. No wonder this country has the government we have! Government ain't entertainment!
Oh, yeah, spouse is re-enlisting in the Army.
Posted by Mal Feasance at November 16, 2005 06:28 AMHagel can say what he wants without fear. He'll always be re-elected because he owns the voting machines. And further, he may know exactly who and how certain elections were fixed....a skeleton one George W. Bush wants kept way, way back in the closet.
Posted by T2 at November 16, 2005 06:38 AMWill someone swat that bothersome fly that keeps hanging around?
Posted by Judith at November 16, 2005 07:13 AMMal, time to take to the streets of America and start an impeachment campaign. If our Government won't do it, then we need to do it. I'm more than ready and willing. We can sit here all day posting and writing articles, but the time is fast passing and action is the tool of change. I am as frustrated as you, because there are days when I let the belief that it has gone too far already seep into my conscious. There are days I plan on how to leave this Country and survive. It seems that I can no longer trust anyone in our Government, Democrat or Republican. The day the WTC went down, my Mother called and said "things will never be the same again." God, she was so right.
Posted by Judith at November 16, 2005 07:32 AMBeneto, The GOP critisized Clinton during Kosovo, How is this any different?
Posted by goose1 at November 16, 2005 07:48 AMHagel is just slightly less a tool as is McCain. He's positioning himself for 2008 nothing more. Remember, like McCain, it's not what he says, for that changes with the wind -it's how he has cast his votes.
Posted by CJ at November 16, 2005 08:32 AMJudith darling, as usual you are so inspiring. Sorry I sounded off so crudely. I really don't drink so early in the day, I save it for the cocktail hour---unlike Bush! We'll not have to take to the streets, the proper authorities will get together and impeach Son without our help. Gore Vidal predicted it the day we invaded Iraq and I always believe my Gore. You have a great day, Judith, and all you Lefties out there, y'all have great day and even a better tomorrow!
Posted by Mal Feasance at November 16, 2005 08:33 AMScrew Hagel.
Screw Hillary.
Been fighting for years for effective change and looking back through our history the only thing that seems clear to me is that we don't care about history or learn from it.
I'm proud of America as a whole, but have not a government that is a wholly own subsidiary of K Street and the MSM.
Spouse is in New Zealand interviewing for a job as I write. 'nough said.
Posted by Simp at November 16, 2005 08:53 AMBush has suggested that critics are hurting the war effort..."are sending mixed signals to our troops and the enemy. And that's irresponsible."
I have a couple of questions.
Q. How in the hell is that irresponsible, and how is it hurting the war effort? And what war effort? The one about oil?
A. Hagel almost says it all. "To question your government is not unpatriotic -- to not question your government is unpatriotic," Hagel said.
Now the war effort. There is no war effort the only one I see is President Bush and the Bush administration, trying to take over Iraq in a War for Oil, in a war we can't win. First, Bush didn't send enough troops over to get the job done that needed to get done. People question that Bush is doing a good job. Let me answer that question. NOPE. Hell is father was a much better president and that doesn't say much. Hell people just need to admit it. Bush failed as the president like many of us though he would. And if people hadn't of been stubborn and the court sytem hadn't of put Bush back in for a second term hell shit wouldn't be this bad. And sorry about my language. Well thats all I got to say on this subject
Judith, You bring up some good points! I thought I was radical, thinking of impeachment. I'm not even close. I was at a screening of the Wal-Mart movie and there was some folks talking anarchy. Hate to say it, but people will die in the streets of America before this Admini$tration is over.
Posted by bbtb at November 16, 2005 10:38 AM
were, not was
Posted by bbtb at November 16, 2005 11:17 AMJohn McCain was one of the Keating 5 He sold his integrity long ago.
Chuck Hagel's ties to voting fraud machines have been a boon to his career.
A little less than eight months after steppind down as director of AIS, Hagel surprised national pundits and defied early polls by defeating Benjamin Nelson, the state's popular former governor. It was Hagel's first try for public office. Nebraska elections officials told The Hill that machines made by AIS probably tallied 85 percent of the votes cast in the 1996 vote, although Nelson never drew attention to the connection. Hagel won again in 2002, by a far healthier margin. That vote is still angrily disputed by Hagel's Democratic opponent, Charlie Matulka, who did try to make Hagel's ties to ES&S an issue in the race and who asked that state elections officials conduct a hand recount of the vote. That request was rebuffed, because Hagel's margin of victory was so large.
…but fanning the flames of jihad by demagoguing and propagating fables is injurious to the national interest….Posted by BenditoSpoken like a true little chickenhawk thug. In case you didn't notice, no one has been a bigger ally of bin Laden and given him more supporters, adherents and followers than George W. Bush. Posted by Mike at November 16, 2005 05:24 PM
Inspiring? I doubt that. Mal, you weren't crude. In fact, you got me going. I can tell you that if I was ever going to start drinking in the morning, it would have been during these past five years. LOL Just hang in there, and hopefully the ship will sink fast.
Posted by Judith at November 16, 2005 09:11 PMbbtb, how was the movie? I meant to go to a showing tonight, but had to attend a dinner for a friend having a birthday.
Posted by Judith at November 16, 2005 09:16 PM