As of noontime Friday, there is no more 'course' to 'stay', thanks to Rep. Murtha.
Various executive branch hard-liners will argue among themselves with increasing degrees of vitriol and irrelevancy while the Pentagon and a working majority in Congress pull the plug on Mr. Bush's war.
Posted by Davis X. Machina at November 19, 2005 09:18 AMWatching C-Span last night was instructive. During the call in period the pro war group was arguing totally on emotion. There are people who really think that if we withdraw from Iraq an organized army will launch a land invasion on U.S. soil. Where this army is supposed to come from they cant say, but this is what "we're over there so that they're not over here" leads to.
After Gulf War I, a serious attempt to devolop alternitive energy should have been started. Instead, that money was used to keep American forces in moslem countries which gave Al Qaeida a new target after the Soviets left Afghanistam.
Posted by rlp at November 19, 2005 09:32 AMMy recollection is that this current "debate" about Iraq (which is at about the level of thoughtfulness and reflectiveness that can be expected given the brain-dead, corrupt state of the Criminal Republican Party) got underway when Reid closed the Senate down to demand "Where the Fuck are we on that Phase II Senate Intelligence Report?"
Pat Roberts brazenly LIED to our hapless J. Rockefeller VII about looking into manipulation of intelligence after the 2004 election. He had no intention of doing so.
And that barefaced lie has come back to haunt the CRP, surprisingly.
Posted by euzoius at November 19, 2005 09:33 AMRight on, rlp.
Repubs appear to be arguing that can't even start talking about withdrawal from Iraq because that's what Osama and company have declared to be a "defeat" for America.
Proof once again that Osama would like us to be mired there for a decade, if possible.
Seems like Bushco and its supporters are letting the terrorists decide our foreign policy for us.
I thought we wouldn't let ANYONE do that, most especially the French!
Posted by euzoius at November 19, 2005 09:44 AMHas the tipping point been reached?
Yes it has. Everyone of the Boy King's tactics of attack and smear will backfire. The giant has awoken and is wondering why some small little man keeps poking it in the eye.
Hasta la vista, and you won't be back.
By you, I mean every dimm-witted f*cktard who hitched his little red wagon to this diseased pony of an administration.
Glue factory bitches!
Posted by SnarkyShark at November 19, 2005 09:53 AMThe culture of corruption introduced a counterfeit bill regarding troop withdrawl. Did its author, Hunter, vote for it or against it? I think I can hear the fat lady singing.
Posted by jake at November 19, 2005 10:17 AMUpdate. The asshole author of the resolution voted against it. Says much about the character of the rethuglicans.
Posted by Jake at November 19, 2005 10:23 AMWe are now having a debate, thanks entirely to Murtha. It is long overdue. I am quite sure that Bush&Co. are absolutely going nuts with this development, one which they probably did not plan on happening, at least not now. The ball has started rolling, and I don't see the GOP or this WH having any ability to stop it. Calling the left (Democrats) names will no longer work. Most people are with the Left, in as much as wanting a real plan for Iraq and a rationale withdrawal plan. Even more want a timeline. As long as Bush continues to attack those who want an end to this War, the deeper the hole becomes for him. Happy days are almost here again.
Posted by Judith at November 19, 2005 11:16 AMfrom the NYTimes:
The ferocity of the fight in the House over a withdrawal from Iraq shows that the war may command the high ground in the 2006 electoral contest.
The Dems need to start NOW hammering the war as issue #1. I only watched a bit of the House debate, but it was astounding to see our government fighting, debating, doing something, anything passionate. Sure beats those steroid hearings.
Posted by ann at November 19, 2005 11:17 AMHappy days are almost here again.
They won't get here though until 2008 and then only if a true progressive gets the nomination.
Rip, that's why I said "almost". Once this nightmare is over, which can only be accomplished by winning in '06 and then again in '08, happy times will finally return to this Country. Then we must say "never again."
Posted by Judith at November 19, 2005 12:01 PMHunter is sitting around and laughing today at the headlines.
"House votes down Rep. Murtha's proposal to withdraw troops from Iraq"
He thinks he pulled a fast one and knowing the basic stupidity of the American people he is probably right.
Posted by Vinnie at November 19, 2005 01:42 PMJudith,
Your point is well taken. We cannot rest. Back in 1992 when Clinton was elected I thought that Bush I had been bad enough to prevent a similar presidency again. Never underestimate the power of sales, I won't ever again.
And just think, assuming a true progressive is elected president in 2008, it is likely the GOP controlled Fed. will try to guarentee a one term presidency like Volker did to Carter by changing to suddenly hard policies on the budget after being too indulgent with Bush. At least the next president will have an opportunity to put in a new Fed. chair if they insist on being political.
Posted by rlp at November 19, 2005 02:03 PMRip, anybody who Bush has appointed, to any position, should be immediately dismissed upon the swearing in of a new President. I don't care who they are.
Posted by Judith at November 19, 2005 02:58 PMWas Murtha's original statement something he decided to do on his own? or was it a plan by Reid and others. The fact that Murtha is beyond reproach as a vet and pro-military Dem leads me to think he was a designated point man to draw the GOPers out, and it worked to perfection, forcing the GOP to float a "get out now" resolution. That is what the Dems need to trumpet - the GOP wants out too!
But as to the"tipping Point"?, that was reached on the Carrier deck the day Bush and his codpiece declared the war over (we just didn't know it then)......and yet 5 GI's were killed today and the war is long lost.....as most of the country now realizes.
"Somewhat obscure..." - a description some might have labelled on Rep. John Murtha before recent events. We'll proudly wear the moniker (and yeh, I think we called the tipping point accurately, looking back with two weeks' hindsight)! Thanx for the shout (er, "whisper?") out, left-coaster!
Posted by activist kaza at November 30, 2005 11:53 AM