I am sick of punters and I am not going to give them my money or my time.
The voters that guys like Warner and Biden are chasing or placating with their weak takes on the war aren't going to be sitting in that spot in 2008. Hell, they aren't there now.
Posted by James E. Powell at November 28, 2005 11:43 PMAnd how about SENATOR Warner saying Bush could not possibly have lied or misled about the war, because he knows his dad and grandfather. As scientific as intelligent design, no?
Posted by TIKI AL at November 29, 2005 12:04 AM
And what big teeth he has!
I'm glad I missed it. Sounds terrible, just awful.
Another spineless Democratic wussy. Great.
Here comes victory!
Posted by paradox at November 29, 2005 04:07 AMYeah, I liked Warner but this kills it for me.
There can be no equivicating, not this time.
Posted by SnarkyShark at November 29, 2005 05:00 AMI've never understood the buzz for Warner. Another Southern moderate. I don't think so. I'm for Feingold. Even if he doesn't make it past the early primaries, he'll push the debate away from these wussie types and the friends of corporate America.
Posted by Rich at November 29, 2005 05:14 AMHe's scary looking, reminds me of the infomercial guy, and if you don't think that matters look up Kerry, John. Sad, but true.
Posted by iamcoyote at November 29, 2005 05:16 AMDisagree w/r/t looks. Look what is in the WH now-a guy that looks and acts like a monkey.
Posted by Ga6thDem at November 29, 2005 05:40 AMWarner is just another example of why the Dems aren't resonating with the people as current conditions ( in normal, pre-Diebold times, that is!) would otherwise indicate.
It makes one wonder if the Dems haven't been bribed into mediocrity to protect the GOP stranglehold on America.
Posted by pessimist at November 29, 2005 05:54 AMJOE LIEBERMAN:
I have just returned from my fourth trip to Iraq in the past 17 months and can report real progress there. More work needs to be done, of course, but the Iraqi people are in reach of a watershed transformation from the primitive, killing tyranny of Saddam to modern, self-governing, self-securing nationhood--unless the great American military that has given them and us this unexpected opportunity is prematurely withdrawn. . . .
Here is an ironic finding I brought back from Iraq. While U.S. public opinion polls show serious declines in support for the war and increasing pessimism about how it will end, polls conducted by Iraqis for Iraqi universities show increasing optimism. Two-thirds say they are better off than they were under Saddam, and a resounding 82% are confident their lives in Iraq will be better a year from now than they are today. What a colossal mistake it would be for America's bipartisan political leadership to choose this moment in history to lose its will and, in the famous phrase, to seize defeat from the jaws of the coming victory.
Gees Louise, A democrat that has left the farm.
What is so unusual about this. . . is that it is very unusual for any Democrat to ever, ever support a war effort under any circumstance, save that of believing they need to in order to get re-elected, aka. Kerry, Clinton.
Lieberman isn't worried about being re-elected.
He's saying what men of integrity and logic are saying.
Sad, very sad, that he is the exception to the rule.
Posted by Carpe Diem at November 29, 2005 07:08 AMThis doesn't surprise me at all, he punts more often than a football team with no halfback. Warner won't even take on Allen in the senate race next year. Coming after Bush, we will have a lot of unusually bad problems to deal with, we will need a president who governs with an eye to the future not the past. Warner is not the one.
Posted by rlp at November 29, 2005 07:24 AMAnother cowardly dem! We on the left should make it clear.
OUT OF IRAQ NOW OR YOU DO NOT GET OUR MONEY, OUR TIME, OR OUR VOTE.
You want to be a war mongering coward? - go fuck your self!
Posted by jj at November 29, 2005 07:31 AM"It makes one wonder if the Dems haven't been bribed into mediocrity to protect the GOP stranglehold on America."
Pessimist, I've wondered that myself.
Evidently, Lieberman doesn't read what Iraqis are saying over at Al Jazeera News. But hey, I guess he knows more about it than the people who are living it every day.
Lieberman has been spouting the GOP talking points for a long time now, and to some of us, is a traitor to the Democratic Party. If you have been reading this Blog for any length of time, you know our opinion of Lieberman. The difference between the GOP and the Democrats, is we dare to callout those in our own Party. You, on the other hand, defend the most corrupt.
Whatever. By the time Warner or whoever the next Dem presidential candidate is in serious campaign mode, the war as we know it now will be over. It will be the ongoing Iraqi Civil War by then. It's not clear that aside from registering (fully justified) outrage, there's much to be gained by an out-of-work governor railing against the war.
Posted by dj moonbat at November 29, 2005 07:47 AMI wonder...do you think there was a lot of tongue play between Ol' Joe and W during that full mouth kiss between them on the floor of the Senate last year? That was a *disgusting* spectacle if there ever was one. (:>
Posted by Donald Cormac at November 29, 2005 07:51 AMit is very unusual for any Democrat to ever, ever support a war effort under any circumstance, save that of believing they need to in order to get re-elected
World War I - The Great War that would have made the world safe for democracy if not for the vengeful attitudes of the Allied Powers. Waged by Woodrow Wilson (D). This was a true believer.
World War II - The war of the Greatest Generation that made the world safe for democracy (for real this time). A total watershed in terms of how the US viewed the world. Waged by Franklin D. Roosevelt (D), ended by Harry Truman (D). Neither looked at it for election concerns.
Vietnam - Though it was a mistake looking back, at the time it was a follow-through of a defense against the domino theory and a realization of containment. Waged by Dwight Eisenhower (to a small degree, anyway - R) John F. Kennedy (D), Lyndon B. Johnson (D), ended by Richard Nixon (R). Most definitely an election issue, but only because of the "tough on communism" requirement for both parties.
The assertion that no Democrat has ever supported a war without election concerns is incorrect.
Posted by DukeRevolution at November 29, 2005 08:00 AMScary.
Posted by God Of War at November 29, 2005 08:08 AMCharlie Rose is who I watch whenever I can't get to sleep. He is monotone and boring. Good Night.
Posted by condor at November 29, 2005 08:19 AMI know nothing about Warner, so I'll reserve judgment. But based on what you just wrote, it's hard not to conclude he is the Demo consultants' and Beltway Dems' wet dream candidate for how the Democrats must be more like Republicans to win elections.
I personally think this is a formula to continue electing Republicans, which in my twisted mind is the goal of all this because the people giving this advice are owned by the same corporations that own Republicans. But that's just my paranoia.
If, however, they are right, then there is no point for a Democratic Party anymore.
However, I don't think they are right, and every post-election analysis from 2004 seems to have shown that everything these Republican-lite types claimed was the reason Bush won was actually wrong.
So, right now, I'd have to say a Warner candidacy would sweep John McCain into office. To paraphrase Truman, why elect a Republican when you can elect a Republican?
Posted by Phil from New York at November 29, 2005 08:22 AMThe guy is not very impressive. Since he looks a bit like Frankenstein in the photo, maybe he got the brain that dropped on the floor. Being a moderately sucessful Governor is no guarantee of being a good President. We don't need to look too far for an example, do we?
Posted by Red_Neck_Repub at November 29, 2005 09:37 AMcarp dumbass..do everyone a favor and remove your head from your ass before posting..your tired old criminal party talking points are not only boring they're offensive to those who can think...asswipe..
Posted by headxray at November 29, 2005 10:19 AMBarack Obama is the future of the Democratic Party.
Posted by spokenword at November 29, 2005 10:38 AMAnybody but another Repuke!
Posted by bushblowsturdblossom at November 29, 2005 11:53 AMYet another Dem to add to my list of Prez candidates that will NOT get my vote if they are the Dem candidate. Let's see, Hillary, Biden, Kerry, and now Warner...though Kerry is better than the others, he still blew his chance. No do-overs unless you are Al Gore.
Posted by Praedor Atrebates at November 29, 2005 02:20 PMWe're going to be gone by 2008,so why diss Warner? That nuke is coming after Christmas and nothing will be left to bitch about. I've known Warner since he was Prez of Virginia Democrats. We called him Gumby. He's a nice boy, but if we do survive 2008, a Republican will be elected. Nobody ever listens, nobody ever learns. Warner was good for Virginia because he got into republican politicians faces about taxes and transportation. That's why they call him Superman. Superman Gumby. Oh, his wife is cheap. As candidate for Gov, she served Safeway sandwich platters at a fundraiser. I mean, really! I'd rather have a cheapie as First Tootsie than a goddamned murderer like Laura.
Forgive my whatever...I'm on my second Heineken.
Posted by Mal Feasance at November 29, 2005 04:14 PMI watched Rose and Warner, and my take is this: Warner is very smart, very quick, very articulate, very successful, but his teeth are too bucked, too big, too white. Nice hair.
All seriousness aside, I don't blame Warner for not re-hashing and spinning the Bush audit trail because, while he may re-affirm his dem credentials, he will immediately find himself on the defensive among the MSM and the rabid dogs on the right. Who needs to chase one's tail?
Warner could be the one for our side. He has had great success in Virginia as Gov, he has been very successful in business (Nextel), he has proven appeal in the South, he has a folksy manner, serious brain power, speaks from the heart, exhibits a balanced approach, understands the value of a good educational and health care system (daughter with diabetes), and makes Bush look like a dimwitted frat boy by comparison (ok, Bush does that all on his own).
The only thing about the Rose interview I didn't like, besides the minor waffling on sacrifices, was his support for the death penalty. He sits there as Gov and says it's ok for the state to kill it's own people. My view is it's better to let them rot in jail, give the bad guys a life time to dwell on their failure.
It's Warner or Feingold for me. Russ won't get past the two divorces and the ethnicity, IMO. So I'm left with Warner. He's our man, please support him.
Posted by Dilbert at November 29, 2005 04:18 PMvery good guys thanks alot.
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