The economy grew at a lively 4.3 percent pace in the third quarter, the best showing in more than a year. The performance offered fresh testimony that the country's overall economic health managed to improve despite the destructive force of Gulf Coast hurricanes.
roof take your tired fascist bullshit elsewhere asswipe....
Posted by headxray at November 30, 2005 08:55 AMGuess those layoffs for GM and Merck haven't impacted the economy just yet.
Hm.....I wonder if the surging oil prices had any impact on that 4.3 percent.
Posted by ann at November 30, 2005 08:56 AMToday I saw gas at the pump for $1.97 a gallon. How dare they! Do the oil companies think we are so gullible and stupid that they can lull us into a false sense of security by ratcheting down the pump price? Is that supposed to take our minds off their obscene profits and the general economic malaise that afflicts this once-great country? How dare they! We're not fools!
Posted by Larry in Largo FL at November 30, 2005 09:03 AMThe 4.3 growth rate occured because of Katrina, not dispite it. The rebuilding is under way and that will help the numbers for about a year or so. The real question is do the numbers really measure the economy or only what the politicans want measured.
Posted by rlp at November 30, 2005 09:07 AMDamn Roof, that wasn't even slightly entertaining. I know you can do better.
Posted by Simp at November 30, 2005 09:22 AMDo the oil companies think we are so gullible and stupid that they can lull us into a false sense of security by ratcheting down the pump price?
Larry, I think they do this to keep people hooked and complacent.
Posted by ann at November 30, 2005 09:24 AMThe economy grew at a lively 4.3 percent pace in the third quarter, the best showing in more than a year. The performance offered fresh testimony that the country's overall economic health managed to improve despite the destructive force of Gulf Coast hurricanes.
Posted by roof at November 30, 2005 08:53 AM
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How are wages doing, you ignorant piece of fuck?
GDP standing alone means exactly jack shit, you shitbreathed asslicker.
Posted by God Of War at November 30, 2005 09:25 AMSalaried employees?
Been intercepting the checks, have we larre?
I wonder how much of that 4.3 comes from the record profits of big oil, halliburton, g.e., and all the other war profiteers?
But I digress.
From The News Hour:
DAN BARTLETT: I think one of the great things about the Republican Party is it is a big tent. We have a lot of different views, a common understanding and principled way of governing, but we do allow for different people to have their views expressed.
Preceeded by from the same interview:
DAN BARTLETT: Well, Ted Kennedy has every right to disagree with the president's decision. In fact, he voted against the war. He voted against the $87 billion to help fund our troops who are fighting in that war. He even voted against the '91 Gulf War that had overwhelming bipartisan support as well.
So under a foreign policy of Sen. Ted Kennedy Saddam Hussein would still be in power; he would, in fact, be in charge of Kuwait right now. And that's an honest policy debate, and we're willing to have that discussion.
But for Senator Kennedy to continue to say that President Bush is misleading the American people is deeply irresponsible and unbecoming of the type of debate and conduct we should have in our nation's capital.
YA see, mischaracterizing the dissent is honest an open debate, don't ya see?
And then building on that mischaracterization to then essentially slander and defame that debate as irresponsible and unbecoming, dismissing it and the Democrats out of hand, and wrongly, that's okay too.
Because they're Democrats, don't you see. And any goppers that go along with it, well, you don't see them because that open tent the goppers seem to be claiming for themselves is only full of the silent and acolytes.
All in the same interview!
Posted by Duckman GR at November 30, 2005 09:28 AMSince WW II quarterly real GDP growth has been above 5% some 31% of the time and the average has been 3.5%. So a 4.3% quaarterly growth rate is still a C by historic standards. Over the 5 years of this administration they have only had one quarter where growth was above 5%.
Posted by spencer at November 30, 2005 09:41 AMAverage wage growth is a poor measure of how the economy is doing. It's like saying "the average depth of the river is 3 feet." But if you try to walk across it, you'll drown because it's 3 inches deep at the shore and 12 feet deep in the middle.
Most folks are doing quite well.
The reality is that Americans have never been more prosperous. GDP is 4.3%. Unemployment will probably fall below 5% here shortly. Home ownership is at the highest levels ever. Inflation remains extremely mild. Interest rates remain near historic lows. The stock market is at the highest levels in over 4 years. The majority of folks are now participating in 401k or IRA plans for retirement savings. Retail stores are extremely busy this holiday season.
Posted by muckdog at November 30, 2005 10:00 AMAverage wage growth is a poor measure of how the economy is doing. It's like saying "the average depth of the river is 3 feet." But if you try to walk across it, you'll drown because it's 3 inches deep at the shore and 12 feet deep in the middle.
Most folks are doing quite well.
The reality is that Americans have never been more prosperous. GDP is 4.3%. Unemployment will probably fall below 5% here shortly. Home ownership is at the highest levels ever. Inflation remains extremely mild. Interest rates remain near historic lows. The stock market is at the highest levels in over 4 years. The majority of folks are now participating in 401k or IRA plans for retirement savings. Retail stores are extremely busy this holiday season.
Posted by muckdog at November 30, 2005 10:00 AM
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How's consumer debt and job creation, you lying piece of shit?
Jesus. You're a bald faced fucking LIAR. Retailers expect to have a mediocre holiday season, shitbreath. Consumer debt is at record highs. Job creation is about half of what is necessary to keep up with workforce demands. Fuck, there's more. Interest rates are rising consistently. Mortgage rates are rising. Home prices have leveled off as the housing market cools. New home building is falling. Health care expenses...way up. Education expenses...way up. Wage growth...stagnant. Energy prices...way up. Credit card rates...way up. Banruptcies...record levels. Trade deficit...record highs. National debt...fuck, look at THAT number. Whoa. Manufacturing jobs...fizzle. Outsourcing...sizzle.
You're a fucking lying piece of garbage. Your ideology is Aristocracy and exploitation of the working and middle class...not American Entrepreneuial Capitalism. Fuck off, asshole.
Posted by God Of War at November 30, 2005 10:12 AMMucky,
Got proof? Interest rates have tripled, for instance, savings accounts are paying 3% versus 1%, and since all interest rates are related, interest rates are climbing, like home mortgages have increased 20% within the past year, 5% to 6%, rounding roughly.
The stock market is getting back to where it was before bush screwed the pooch in his first year, that isn't getting into the lifeboat, that's just getting your head above water as opposed to under it.
The thing that disturbs me about the inflation, is that they always exclude food and oil to get a base rate, when food and oil is the lifeblood of our bodies and our economy. Everything depends on those items, so if those items fly our of control, who cares about the baseline?
Posted by Duckman GR at November 30, 2005 10:14 AMOh, I forgot to mention the retail sales this holiday season. Sales were up, pretty big, Friday morning after Turkee. The rest of the weekend, sucked. I know, I was there, all weekend.
Posted by Duckman GR at November 30, 2005 10:17 AMDuck, I gave you the proof. The proof is in the numbers. I know you don't like the numbers. But they exist.
The bear market started in 2000, before Bush was the Republican presidential candidate. By the time he was sworn in, the market had fallen quite a bit. We're nearing those levels again. Go to stockcharts.com and verify with the ticker SPY for the SP500. Pretty easy to do. And kudos to those who stayed the course in their investments and continued to dollar cost average into the market. You've done very well.
Long term rates haven't budged much. The short-term rate is controlled by the Federal Reserve, so send your hate mail to Greenspan. But the reality is, a 1% Fed funds rate wasn't going to last forever.
The core inflation rate is all that really matters over the long term. Food and energy are volatile over the short term. For example, energy prices have dropped like a rock since the Hurricane Katrina spike.
Retailers haven't been able to pass along the costs of higher energy to consumers. Notice the "massive discounting" by retailers this holiday season. Which is why I keep telling you that higher energy prices are most definitely not inflationary. If folks are sending more to OPEC, they're spending less at the malls. Hence, "massive discounting" to move merchandise.
Of course, with energy prices falling I expect that money to be spent at the malls. Just in time for Christmas! So we may see the core number start to move up a bit, just as energy prices are falling!
See how it works?
Posted by muckdog at November 30, 2005 10:55 AMFuckdog,
You are the worst kind of lying filth. Seen a natural gas bill lately?
Energy prices have dropped like a rock? I assume you're talking about gas prices, which fell, curiously, after Congress caught on the the gouging...and not a second before.
And yet, energy prices remain substantially higher than last year accounting for inflation.
This "massive discounting" of Ralph Lauren chinos isn't a free lunch, assboy. Its going to bite the retailers, which will start a most unpleasant chain reaction.
God. You're such a fucking tool.
Posted by God Of War at November 30, 2005 11:28 AMMuck, You mean Like the Unemployement number? We both know it is Bull S**T number unless they count All the Unemployed. Bush gives all kinds of numbers that are made up. But that is all they are numbers.
Posted by Goose1 at November 30, 2005 11:38 AMHow do you know that the numbers are "made up," Goose? Please don't tell me you've fallen for one of these conspiracy theories.
Posted by muckdog at November 30, 2005 12:01 PMHow do you know that the numbers are "made up," Goose? Please don't tell me you've fallen for one of these conspiracy theories.
Posted by muckdog at November 30, 2005 12:01 PM
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People who give up searching for work after a given number of months are automatically dropped from the stats even though they have not become employed.
Its a bullshit stat with fictional parameters, and if you had any understanding of its calculation you'd know it and refrain from exposing your ignorance.
Posted by God Of War at November 30, 2005 12:17 PMMuck, The poverty rate is way up also! They're doing real good, I can see. Hiding those numbers?
Posted by bbtb at November 30, 2005 12:22 PMMuck, I haven't fallen for anything. You on the othe r hand maybe. The unemployement numbers ARE NOT ACURATE.
Posted by Goose1 at November 30, 2005 12:44 PMYo Roof, ya need to take a quick lesson from Muckdog:
The stock market is at the highest levels in over 4 years.
Now that's funny!
Muck,
They have falsified and lied about so much how do you know they aren't faking the numbers? I'm not saying they are but it's not also out of the realm of the impossible that they are faked.
I don't know how people like you can stand to constantly be used as a dupe and a tool. If I were you, I would be kicking W.'s sorry ass from here to timbuktu. Conservatism is now seen as a corrupt and obsolete ideology.
Posted by Ga6thDem at November 30, 2005 01:04 PMConservatism is now seen as a corrupt and obsolete ideology.
God, may that be true.
Learn hoi polli, learn!
Before it's too late.
What numbers, Muck? "The majority" of folks, or anything for that matter, is not a number.
Unemployment will probably is not a number.
Inflation remains extremely mild is not a number.
Interest rates remain near historic lows is not a number.
Lets give a football analogy. 1st and ten, LT runs to the right, tweet, holding, back to 1st and 20. Pass to Gates over the middle, pick up of ten yards. 2nd and ten. Back where you started, only you've lost a down, or 5 years, as the case may be. You can try to blame it on Clinton, but it's bush's economy, bush's tax cuts, bush's war, bush's deficits.
And finally, it will be less money to the malls and more to big oil, not OPEC but BPTXCHVEXMOBRDS, so how will that help the retailers exactly? Cash flow but no profit isn't exactly the business model I would follow given my druthers.
Posted by Duckman GR at November 30, 2005 03:43 PMGDP 4.3%. Unemployment 5%. Core inflation rate 2%. 10 yr treasury 4.5%. Pick your poison on how to verify these numbers. CBS Marketwatch is a good site.
Here's the 10 yr Treasury chart for the last 40 years. So you see, we remain near historic lows.
See how easy it is to prove these things? So much easier to use real data than your "wild allegation" method.
I really snicker at this "5% unemployment doesn't mean 5% unemployment" garbage the left is trotting out. What did 5% unemployment mean during the Clinton years? I bet you weren't making these wild allegations back then, eh? And the unemployment rate was mostly higher during Clinton's term, until the last spike of the dot com bubble.
And maybe these "people who have quit looking for work" have done so because they've made a ton of money in their home equity, sold their house, and are livin' large playing their new XBOX 360s on their plasma HDTVs. Or maybe they had a ton of Google stock, and sold it. Who knows?
The FACT is that there are more people working now than ever. Again, check CBS Marketwatch.
Posted by muckdog at November 30, 2005 03:59 PMYou can try to blame it on Clinton, but it's bush's economy, bush's tax cuts, bush's war, bush's deficits.
The bear market started under Clinton. You want a link? Here's the Nasdaq 100. This clearly shows that the bear market started in the first quarter of 2000. Bush wasn't sworn in until late January 2001. Lots of the market collapse happened prior to that.
Then ask yourself:
When did the Bush tax cuts take effect?
When did the first Bush budget take effect?
Aha! Every picture tells a story, don't it?
Posted by muckdog at November 30, 2005 04:08 PMLOL Muck. And Bush has been in office about 5 years and the stock market still hasn't recovered. So obviously, his plans aren't working. According to his own statistics, there are only about 4,000 more people with jobs than there were when he took office LOL! Of course, I do agree that the millionaires are doing well. It's the middle class that is struggling. And the poor. Bush believes is a welfare state where wealth is rewarded and work is punished. Oh, and of course, now embezzling is okay as long as you are doing it for Jr. and in the name of Jesus. That's about how screwed up you people are.
Posted by Ga6thDem at November 30, 2005 04:27 PMThat graph shows that the nasdaq 100 went down. Is that index our economy? Or is that the dotcom bubble bursting? There's more to the market then that, dude. And did the 100 have to go so far down? Was that really the start of a bear market, or a return to sanity that went beyond that to the doldrums we're in now because of bush's non-existent policies?
And do we need to mention the Congress in all of this? Clinton kept the gop from doing what they have done since bush got into office, make the rich richer and everyone else SOL.
Muck, it's been downhill since bush was handed the White House. See that nasdaq chart, it was higher for every day of Clintons time in office then it is now. In fact, it kinda looks like it's never gotten even close to where it was under Clinton. "Bear" market or not.
Now how can that be? Have bush's tax cuts five years later accomplished anything? Those cuts occured in the first two years mostly, right, and the markets operate on perceptions as much as real dollars, predictive as it were. Could that downward trend be the market predicting bush's performance? And the fact that nothing has happened since then indicative of bush's tax cuts impact on our economy?
Hows that picture?
Posted by Duckman GR at November 30, 2005 07:55 PMThere you go again with the wild allegations and no proof. At least your consistant!
By the way, I recall the GOP Congress sending Bill Clinton some hefty tax CUTS. Perhaps you don't recall.
1) The GOP Congress sent Clinton a bill that eliminated the source tax. That means if you work in Calfornia and earn a pension or save in your 401(k), when you move to Nevada to retire, California can't come after you for taxes. Clinton signed it.
2) The GOP Congress sent Clinton Roth IRA legislation. Save now, invest, and never pay taxes on your capital gains. Clinton signed it.
3) The GOP Congress sent Clinton legislation that created one of the largest tax cuts in history in the exemption of real estate capital gains from taxes. $500K for married couples; $250K for singles. He signed it.
So, there's my data. Do you have any data, or just wild allegations? And apparantly you can't read charts very well. Clearly the bear market started in 2000. No one can deny that.
And the stock market is a predictor of the economy. Because if businesses are collapsing, layoffs are on the horizon.
Do a google search for historical references. It'll be a learning experience for you.
Posted by muckdog at December 1, 2005 08:28 AMfuck muck you're the one who fudges data..again-get your head out of the chimp's ass...
Posted by headxray at December 1, 2005 10:01 AMmuckdog,
This is a riot. Don't confuse them with facts, it just interupts them from running in circles screaming that the sky is falling and how conservaives are evil. besides that, gOW is running out of explitives and is really beginning to repeat himself.
The whole "tax cuts will stimulate the slumping economy" is like the guy with a cold who goes to his doctor.
"I can give you an expensive drug with nasty side-effects, and you'll be well in a week," says the doc, "Or you can get bed rest, take aspirin, drink lots of liquids, and you'll be over it in seven days."
George chose the drug. And charged us for it.
Ed
fresno boob, your mother is calling..it's time to quit lying and come home...asswipe...
Posted by headxray at December 1, 2005 01:07 PMMuck, where's the wild allegations? I'm just looking at your graph, it was 60 at the start, 60 when bush snuck in, and it hasn't approached that since. Is this supposed to be good, a flat Nasdaq 100? And is the 100 "THE" Stock market, or just a piece?
Posted by Duckman GR at December 1, 2005 02:52 PMOh, and did I mention that head x ray really needs one, that and he has a really strange fetish for his mommy. He keeps talking about mommys, what's with that?
Posted by FresnoBob at December 2, 2005 11:47 AM