Bush bought the news here in the US so why not Iraq?
Posted by Goose1 at November 30, 2005 08:07 AMAnd we are to be surprised? I put nothing past these people, nothing.
Posted by at November 30, 2005 08:27 AMCatapulting the propaganda...at home and abroad.
I'd like to catapult these administration fuckstains into the middle of Baghdad.
Posted by God Of War at November 30, 2005 09:28 AMNice try, chief... but wanna know the problem with your argument? It simply doesn't prove what you suggest it does.
The United States could buy 17 trillon dollars worth of news in Iraq and it wouldn't change whether or not our own media is covering the war in an unbiased manner.
The story you link even concedes that the stories are factual (but apparenly the lack of negative spin leaves it one sided) which is more than can be said for much of what comes out of the U.S. Press (ie: Rathergate).
But isn't it odd that positive factual news only finds it's way to broadcast if someone is paid to go out and solicit it? Certainly there is no need for anyone to solicit bad news. All you need is a half assed story (and a word document disguised as an Army memo) and you can get nearly any MSM outlet to run your story as fact... as long as it smears the President or criticizes the war.
I'd rather be on the side that is having to pay to get the factual news reported... than the side who simply makes shit up and has it reported as truth.
Posted by C.H. Truth at November 30, 2005 09:36 AMCH:
News that is one-sided or bought isn't factual and objective, nor is propaganda news.
But then you probably think Fox is a news organization, right?
Posted by Steve Soto at November 30, 2005 09:46 AMFactual is factual. Facts are objective. When you ask that people make analysis to temper the fact... that's when it becomes subjective.
We are so confused about what objective reporting is that we hardly recognize it anymore. But when someone reports exactly what is happening without any dialogue or commentary it is by definition objective. As soon as the reporter has to offer his/her commentary on it... it no longer is objective. If this commentary starts to follow certain patterns it becomes propaganda.
Bottom line... Propaganda can come from any source L.C... even our own MSM.
Captain and Coldheart on Propaganda
Well, thanks for that clarification, and you're welcome, for that opportunity to tout your blog here.
We'll agree to disagree, and you are entitled to your opinion of what defines "objective."
Posted by Steve Soto at November 30, 2005 10:28 AMHey CH, if they're paying to place the articles, there is nothing in them that can be considered factual, honest, truthful, reliable etc.
And notice this part in the 4th graf, Though the articles are basically factual, they present only one side of events and omit information that might reflect poorly on the U.S. or Iraqi governments, officials said.
What officials? Who officials? Bush Admin officials? More of those "troops" the article refers too? Information operations, WTF is that?
That would be PROPAGANDISTS, and by definition, cannot be counted on to be reliable.
If a person lies to you repeatedly, on what basis would you decide to start believing them, when all they have done is lie?
So explain to me again, why I or the Chief or anyone else for that matter, should believe any aspect of this crap as being anything other then what it clearly is, propaganda and lies.
Posted by Duckman GR at November 30, 2005 10:43 AMDuckman... Whoever wrote the story is citing the sources who supposedly uncovered this. These officials claim that the stories are basically factual.
Do you have any evidence that they are not?
Of course not... you are simply blinded by partisan hatred that doesn't allow you to think objectively. I often wonder what it might be like to live under the clouds of distrust that makes people like you so angry.
Posted by C.H. Truth at November 30, 2005 11:16 AMActually L.C... My link was intended for you. It is doubtful that your crowd would have any interest in what either Captain Ed or I have to say. (Although oddly enough I have nearly 2000 referrals from Salon.com, 699 referrals from Daily Kos and 659 from D.U. - Go figure - I have never even been to the D.U. - somebody there must love me!)
On the other hand... Those of us not afraid of the other POV are slightly different. I usually check out a few liberal blogs everyday. In fact I feed Kos and the L.C. to my news page along with the P.L. M.M. C.Q. J.O.M... and a few others.
Posted by C.H. Truth at November 30, 2005 11:27 AMDuckman... Whoever wrote the story is citing the sources who supposedly uncovered this. These officials claim that the stories are basically factual.
Do you have any evidence that they are not?
Of course not... you are simply blinded by partisan hatred that doesn't allow you to think objectively. I often wonder what it might be like to live under the clouds of distrust that makes people like you so angry.
Posted by C.H. Truth at November 30, 2005 11:16 AM
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Let me give you the coldhearted truth, you little shitstain. The truth is that this administration has been caught red-handed, repeatedly, pushing propaganda upon its own citzens, using taxpayer money to do it. You claim that the news coming out of Iraq is biased against Bush. Really? Soldiers and marines getting blown to shit isn't news? Well, asshole, its fucking news to those of us with friends and kin over there. You think daily suicide bombings anywhere else wouldn't be news? Last time I checked, just about every suicide bombing anywhere made the newswires. Then of course there is the fact that we, over here, never hear of the rampant rapings, kidnappings, theft and garden variety murder foisted upon Iraqis on a daily basis. Those events don't make the newswires, so you'll have to forgive us if we aren't all up in arms when other "mundane" events, like a fucking power grid staying lit for more than a few hours or some kids actually going to school don't get headline status. If we are supposed to throw parades for that shit, then we are truly in Dante's tenth circle of hell.
I have no fear of the other POV. Its a bullshit POV, based upon half-truths and propaganda. I wasn't born in America, bitch. I was born a child of war in the cradle of aggression, and I have no tolerance for the purveyors of propaganda, deceit, and militaristic jingoism. That fucking bullshit doesn't fly with me, holmes. You want to rah-rah-rah yourself to a militaristic fervor, strap on a uniform, head to the front lines, and lets see what you've got.
Pussy.
Posted by God Of War at November 30, 2005 11:43 AMGOW... The thing is, war isn't pretty, and neither was your response. But war is ultimately a competition, albeit a nasty one.
You don't objectively report on a football game by only writing stories about holding penalties or turnovers. You also need to include commentary on what your team did well. More to the point, your ultimate responsibility is to report on who won the game.
In this war... we are winning about 49-3 and the beat reporters are only writing a story when the other team gets a first down or when your quarterback is sacked.
Imagine for a second how this war would be percieved if we only wrote about what is going wrong with the insurgency? How many leaders have been captured or killed. How many raids have driven them back. How many Iraqi leaders and religious clerics have condemned them. How many have died. How far do the Iraqi people have to turn on the insurgents before we stop to think that they are actually the bad guys and losing the hearts and minds of the Iraqis to boot?
Imagine if we covered the insurgency with the same negativity that we cover our own soldiers? Who would be winning? Would it even be close?
Just chew on it for a bit...
Posted by C.H. Truth at November 30, 2005 12:07 PMImagine if we covered the insurgency with the same negativity that we cover our own soldiers? Who would be winning? Would it even be close?
Just chew on it for a bit...
Posted by C.H. Truth at November 30, 2005 12:07 PM
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You pathetic fucking propagandist.
49-3? Using what scoreboard? Diebold's?
300 billion dollars. 2100+ dead US military. 18000+ wounded US military. Countless dead Iraqi civilians ("collateral" damage).
For what?
What the fuck has THAT investment returned us?
BTW, asswipe, I hear reports every day on how many insurgents are killed and how many of their leaders are eliminated, so on that count you're just a baldfaced fucking liar. Typical for you, yet obvious nonetheless.
Posted by God Of War at November 30, 2005 12:14 PMGoebbels would approve.
Posted by tempus at November 30, 2005 12:37 PMSure, GOW... you read about some insurgent leader being killed on page 9 of your paper. We saw headlines for a week when our casualty count went to 2000.
The media cannot completely control the flow of information... What happens happens... but they can control what they decide to push on us as important.
The fact is that you would have to admit that factually we are killing way more insurgents than insurgents are killing us. We kill or capture leaders all the time, whereas none of our military leadership is any jeopardy at all. We control a lionshare of the land in Iraq and can send soldiers just about anywhere. We win all firefights and most of the casualties we suffer directly come from sabotage (like roadside bombs) rather than a real war tactic. The insurgents may not have achieved any tangible military victory since we have been there.
So tell me Einstein... why do so many Americans think we are 'losing' the war? Under what 'objective' measurements do you feel the insurgents winning?
BTW... we lost 58,000 people in Vietnam. Don't act like 2000 is some sort of military disaster. Naysayers were predicting we would loose 10,000 just to take Baghdad. We overthrew an entire dictatorship and are close to setting up a new Democratic government with comparitively limited casualties. That's what we accomplished.
Not that it matters to bleeding heart liberals like you what goes on in the middle east, as long as death squads, prison rapes, and 10,000 dead Kurds doesn't get in the way of the latest Michael Moore screening or the march against animal cruelty. Out of sight.. out of mind. Don't make it your problem, right?
Posted by C.H. Truth at November 30, 2005 12:41 PMto c h liar..we are used to fascist propagandist's around here and you are seen for what you are..a full of shit fascist apologist...take a hike to where you came from asshole...
Posted by headxray at November 30, 2005 01:30 PMCH, a game to you, huh? I'm guessing you work for a defense contractor, or you're just another one of those sickos getting a hardon from death porn. Otherwise, what exactly have you "won" from this war? And what is it with you freepers and Michael Moore? He's like a fetish to you guys; as far as I can tell, on this site alone, the only time he's mentioned is when one of you sociopaths show up to revel in the blood of our soldiers.
But thanks for the hilarity - you whine about "bleeding heart liberals" in the same graf as you salviate over rape rooms that the bleeding hearts are ignoring. So which is it, bleeding hearts or heartless libs?
Posted by iamcoyote at November 30, 2005 01:50 PMImagine! Paying Iraqi newspapers to publish propaganda! Im outraged! Why waste all our tax dollars when the Administration can get reporters to publish lies for free? Where's Judith Miller when we really need her?
Posted by ryan de topanga at November 30, 2005 05:32 PMOne of the papers, Al Mada, somehow got hold of the first Oil-For-Food list of recipients. And, strangely, their story about it vilifies Galloway (in a Baghdad paper, mind you). The MEMRI translation that broke the story. (Note: MEMRI is associated with Meryl Wurmser - and, I suspect, highly biased, judging by their list of media citations.)
Posted by heythereitseric at November 30, 2005 05:49 PMFrom my post on the open thread:
"It seems we are educating the Iraqis on how to control the media. Present the news as unbiased accounts, but pay the so-called independent journalists money for their "unbiased accounts", and presto, we have news for mass consumption. Welcome to Bush's form of Democracy."
None of this should be a surprise to anyone. Armstrong, who had the misfortune of being caught, is certainly not the only paid liar in this Country.
Posted by Judith at November 30, 2005 06:02 PMGeneral Peter Pace, when questioned on Nightline, said that if true, it is wrong, and he will find out the facts on this story. At least he didn't deny it, like some who post here. He is willing to have an open mind, and check the story, as he had just learned of it today.
Posted by Judith at November 30, 2005 08:48 PMSo all of the ads placed by Soros, MoveOn.Org and the rest is fact right? And news releases that are sent out by liberal "Think Tanks" and passed off by the MSM as "news" is OK? Oh, it's only propoganda when a it doesn't serve your liberal agenda.
Posted by FresnoBob at November 30, 2005 10:31 PMTypical Republican. Never address the issue, just throw stones. FresnoBob, it is only truth and reality when it is O'Rielly, Fox News, Limbaugh, Haggarty, etc. reporting. Right?
Posted by Judith at December 1, 2005 05:30 AMI think that this is a very smart way to go about getting the truth out to the Iraqi public. If it takes our paying for it, that's fine by me. Here is an article that really defines what you are all about, confusing politics with reality. All I see here from you folks is hysterics, you cherry pick stories to suit your agenda and reenforce your belief system that all conservatives are heartless monsters or fools and President Bush is either a stupid monkey manipulated by others or a greedy evil person that would sacrifice our troops for a higher return on his oil stocks. A lot of hyperbole really. You call facts lies when they don't support your agenda, villify peoples motivations to match your presuppositions and malign people once they no longer serve your needs (much like what is happening to Bob Woodward because of the Plame case).
All I see here from you folks is hysterics, you cherry pick stories to suit your agenda and reenforce your belief system
--FresnoBoob
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Look in the mirror, shitstain...you totally described yourself.
Stupid fuck.
Posted by God Of War at December 1, 2005 08:45 AMNot that it matters to bleeding heart liberals like you what goes on in the middle east, as long as death squads, prison rapes, and 10,000 dead Kurds doesn't get in the way of the latest Michael Moore screening or the march against animal cruelty. Out of sight.. out of mind. Don't make it your problem, right?
Posted by C.H. Truth at November 30, 2005 12:41 PM
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What I would wreak upon you if you were in my presence would erase the words "bleeding heart liberal" from your mind forever, you complicit little fuck.
Posted by God Of War at December 1, 2005 09:11 AMWhat I would wreak upon you if you were in my presence would erase the words "bleeding heart liberal" from your mind forever, you complicit little fuck.
Hey, GOW, you talk a lot of smack, but my guess is that your weak ass can't cash the checks your mouth writes.
funny thing about you fresno boob..quit wetting the bed and go home ..asshole
Posted by headxray at December 1, 2005 01:09 PMWhat I would wreak upon you if you were in my presence would erase the words "bleeding heart liberal" from your mind forever, you complicit little fuck.
Hey, GOW, you talk a lot of smack, but my guess is that your weak ass can't cash the checks your mouth writes.
Posted by FresnoBob at December 1, 2005 11:20 AM
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I would fuck you up so bad, so fast, that you wouldn't even have time to think of crying to your mother.
Posted by God Of War at December 1, 2005 01:12 PMHey punk boy,
As long as you can handle 250 pounds of whoop ass lets get it on. But it looks like you might be writing more rubber checks. All talk and no action. Watching too many video games is my guess. You start believing you can take on real men. Just a warning, I will take those little thumbs that you use on your x-box, you know, the ones you suck (among other things), and shove them along with your hand, wrist and forearm up your wimpy little ass.
Posted by FresnoBob at December 2, 2005 07:46 AMSo why arnt you over there doing your part for the noble cause tough guy? Hey you could even maybe get some"punk ass" in Abu Ghraib - a nice little candy boy similar to that thinly veiled fantasy youre proposing to GOW.
Posted by jondee at December 2, 2005 05:55 PMJoanie,
Looks like GOW is sending the women in to fight for him. I did 5 active and 1 active reserve and got out in 86. Did you serve? Or do you just like bad mouthing those that do?
On your second point, as a matter of fact, GOW is a candy ass, so your right on point there. Good call on half of it.
Posted by FresnoBob at December 2, 2005 09:32 PMAnybody that pushes twenty year olds between him and the line-of-fire but wont go THERE himself is a chickesh*t hawk and worse the most ignoble kind of hypocrite. What was your "service" licking a Bechtel executives ass h*le?
Posted by jondee at December 3, 2005 06:55 PMjoanie girl,
Your chicken hawk name calling is laughable. Using your logic, I guess if your against the war and aren't camped out at Crawford you are a anti-war fraud then correct? Oh, better yet, go to Iraq to protest it. Why not, no convictions, chicken?
Posted by FresnoBob at December 4, 2005 07:36 PMlike a fat kid in a cake shop - I'm lovin it.
Pay-For-Play news (aka propaganda) is illegal in the United States.
As the LA Times article stated, with the internet, cross-publishing and stateside news outlets skimming news from local Iraqi papers.. this development is morally inept at the least and borderline illegal at worst.
Journalists are to be 'objective' and certainly not paid to present information that is spoon-fed and upchucked without even a bat of an eyelash.
I find it absolutely unbelievable that anyone could contest what's come to light. I'm guessing it's part of the 30-some percent who doesn't have the intelligence (or likes Jesus too much) to admit that they've been taken for idiots for the past 5 or 6 (I lost count, it makes me weep) years.
Please.. by all means contest me.. in both our heart of hearts.. we know:
you are fucking retarded. =D
e'z
Dave
addendum:
wow. i somehow stomached reading through every response in this thread. i did the ol'pub'scan previously.
republicans wanting to fist fight.
if you were retarded..pardon me..developmentally disabled.. i'd feel a bit sorry.
but now it seems you're just stupid/ignorant/what-have-you.
and i still feel sorry for you... but totally different reasons. ;)
-d
Posted by dave at December 6, 2005 03:06 PM