What I'd like to know today is how exactly our Generals can testify before Congress in late September that there is ONE combat ready Iraqi army battalion, and yesterday Clown-in-Chief says there's hundreds of thousands of ready to rock and roll Iraqi troopers?
Posted by euzoius at December 1, 2005 08:03 AMToon of the day:Propoganda: Here, There & Everywhere
Posted by jjoats at December 1, 2005 08:11 AMWhat I'd like to know today is how exactly our Generals can testify before Congress in late September that there is ONE combat ready Iraqi army battalion, and yesterday Clown-in-Chief says there's hundreds of thousands of ready to rock and roll Iraqi troopers?
Posted by euzoius at December 1, 2005 08:03 AM
_____
What you'd really like to know is which one is lying.
Posted by God Of War at December 1, 2005 08:38 AMBush is lieing, and has been since the firt time he got elected.
Posted by jimmy at December 1, 2005 09:01 AMSocialism Sucks - I sincerely hope you figure this out soon!
Posted by at December 1, 2005 09:26 AMGreed, in the guise of capitalism sucks!
FASCISM SUCKS!!!
Posted by bbtb at December 1, 2005 09:31 AMLately I've noticed the gibbering, drooling Rightist trolls have taken to labeling progressives as "socialists" as anon Boob does above.
Is this characterization being increasingly spewed out on "their" media outlets?
I suspect that the Christian soldiers are being repeatedly told that any government regulation of private enterprise is "socialism".
Posted by euzoius at December 1, 2005 09:47 AMGreed, in the guise of capitalism sucks
Do we need to bring out "the list" again? Lets do. Here is the Generosity Index, and updated for red state/blue state...
1 Mississippi Bush
2 Arkansas Bush
3 Oklahoma Bush
4 Louisiana Bush
5 Alabama Bush
6 Tennessee Bush
7 South Dakota Bush
8 Utah Bush
9 South Carolina Bush
10 Idaho Bush
11 Wyoming Bush
12 Texas Bush
13 West Virginia Bush
14 Nebraska Bush
15 North Dakota Bush
16 North Carolina Bush
17 Kansas Bush
18 Florida Bush
19 Georgia Bush
20 Kentucky Bush
21 Montana Bush
22 Missouri Bush
23 New Mexico Bush
24 Alaska Bush
25 Indiana Bush
26 New York Kerry
27 Iowa Bush
28 Ohio Bush
29 California Kerry
30 Maryland Kerry
31 Illinois Kerry
32 Maine Kerry
33 Delaware Kerry
34 Washington Kerry
35 Vermont Kerry
36 Oregon Kerry
37 Hawaii Kerry
38 Virginia Bush
39 Arizona Bush
40 Nevada Bush
41 Pennsylvania Kerry
42 Michigan Kerry
43 Colorado Bush
44 Connecticut Kerry
45 Minnesota Kerry
46 Wisconsin Kerry
47 New Jersey Kerry
48 Rhode Island Kerry
49 Massachusetts Kerry
50 New Hampshire Kerry
It is funny how with a decorated veteran like Murtha confirming what the polls are showing that Americans feeling about Iraq is true that one competent Iraqi battalion has suddenly grown to hundered of thousands.
Posted by at December 1, 2005 10:01 AMDo I have to bring up the issue of using misleading statistics again muckdog? Notice how many of those states are in the south. As a southerner I can tell you that those southern numbers are high because of church contributions. In other words, what you're implying is feeding the poor and sheltering the homeless is mostly a collection for summer trips to Branson, Mo. and similar actitivies.
Posted by rlp at December 1, 2005 10:06 AMmuck, Such a mind altering response from you! Is that the best you can do?
Never met a profit making corporation you didn't like, wink!
Posted by bbtb at December 1, 2005 10:14 AMfuck muck..why bother to post? your fascist bullshit only impresses you.. what are 12 years old? asswipe
Posted by headxray at December 1, 2005 10:27 AMmuck is merely trolling for hits on his blog. Please don't oblige him, just ignore him. This is just part of his daily routine.
Posted by at December 1, 2005 10:37 AMA new article in the Chronicle of Higher Education (login required)has more good environmental news.
Slower Currents in Atlantic May Be Sign of Global Warming, Scientists Say
By RICHARD MONASTERSKY
The system of mammoth currents that shuttle heat around the Atlantic Ocean has weakened markedly over the past 16 years, a change that many researchers have expected to occur as a consequence of greenhouse warming.
Researchers at the National Oceanography Center at the University of Southampton, in England, report today in the journal Nature that the conveyor-belt-like transport system has slowed by 30 percent, according to their analysis of recent ocean surveys.
"This is an alarming signal," said Detlef Quadfasel, a professor of oceanography at the University of Hamburg, in Germany. Computer climate models, he said, have forecast that global warming will slow down the Atlantic heat-transport system, with major consequences for European weather. The new paper "is the first sort of observational evidence to support these model results," he said.
The Atlantic heat-transport system, which involves the Gulf Stream, normally shuttles warm surface water from the tropics toward the North Atlantic. When the warm, salty water reaches the far northern latitudes, it gives off heat to the atmosphere, thereby helping to keep Iceland and Northern Europe much warmer than they would otherwise be. As the water cools off, it grows dense enough to sink to the ocean bottom. Then it flows south through the Atlantic and into other ocean basins. If the heat conveyor were to slow down, models suggest, Northern Europe would cool significantly.
[snip]
According to their analysis, the whole system is slowing down. The North Atlantic is forming less of the cold, dense water that flows southward along the bottom of the ocean and provides much of the power that pulls the conveyor belt along. At the same time, a big fraction of the warm tropical water that heads north makes it only partway before getting rerouted back toward the south.
The new results are consistent with other oceanic changes. The waters of the North Atlantic have become less salty in recent decades, as the warming climate melts glaciers and increases the amount of freshwater flowing through rivers into the ocean. Because freshwater is less dense than salty water, the change, in theory, inhibits water from sinking, thereby slowing the conveyor belt.
[end]
For those unfamiliar with one of the cheerier scenarios involved with global warming, other than more and fiercer hurricanes, tornadoes, droughts, floods and typhoons, of course, is that the Humboldt current could simply shut down due to salinity changes and that could happen remarkably quickly, like one to a few years.
If that were to happen, some predict that we'd want to pack our seal-fur parkas and mucklucks for that long anticipated trip to Paris, in possibly the near future. I guess I could choose a colorful selection of lichen to replace my New Jersey lawn, as well.
Posted by DeminNewJ at December 1, 2005 10:38 AMMuck, as I said before when you posted your "generosity" index, there are two reasons for this and if you had any knowledge of philanthropy, you would understand what explains the correlation. It has nothing to do with how people vote or what their politics are. Lower and middle income households account for the majority of charitable donations. Who do they give to the most: the church.
Posted by ann at December 1, 2005 10:59 AMJust read about this guy and I really like his platform on redefining national security.
Posted by ann at December 1, 2005 11:06 AMLet's see the "generosity" index w/o donations to one's church.
It would be turned upside down.
And might become meaningful.
Posted by euzoius at December 1, 2005 11:19 AMHey, don't those churches in thar red states ask for at least 20%?
Posted by bbtb at December 1, 2005 11:28 AMMuck,
That chart is misleading. While these people may give more, they don't give it locally. These people in places like MS empty their bank accounts and send it to quacks like Pat Robertson. They were busily writing checks when that guy in Tulsa, OK said "jesus is going to call me home if I don't get millions of dollars." Do you wonder how scam artists keep going? Yeah, its these people. Sad, very sad. Just say "jesus wants me to have your money" and they will give it all to you.
Look no further than how successful Ralph Reed has been at embezzling money. Abramoff too. The people you are lauding are their main customers.
Posted by Ga6thDem at December 1, 2005 11:29 AMUh, did any of you visit the site to determine how they came up with the numbers? Or are you all in your "wild allegations" mode? From your comments, it seems as if you didn't even look at how they came up with the Generosity Index.
I know how you don't like numbers and data that blow away your preconceived ideology.
It's just hillarious. You come here day in and day out talking about stingy GOPers. You have no proof to back up your allegations. Then when the proof comes and the red states top the list of "most generous" you all go in denial on me.
ROTFLMAO
It's almost as funny as yesterday's "5% unemployment really isn't 5% unemployment" hogwash you were pedalling. Or your January 2005 call to sell US dollars for foreign monies!
What's next for you folks? December really isn't December? Up isn't really up? Blue is green, 5=3, round=square? Shorts in the winter, jackets in the summer?
Posted by muckdog at December 1, 2005 11:34 AMMuck,
What a scream you are! Do you not know that giving money to Pat Robertson is tax deductible? Man, your ignorance about the south is laughable!! Like I said, these people will empty their bank accounts and give it to people like Falwell. They all have stuff designated as "tax deductible." Perhaps you think that their tax deductible status should be taken away.
Do you know how to read? What I said about unemployment is that they have lied about everything else so why wouldn't they lie about that? Man, if I'm ever accused of a crime, I would want you on a jury. Are all conservatives so easy to dupe? No wonder Jr. just keeps lying. You are a prime example of you can fool all the people all the time.
he, he, blue states have the lowest divorce rates so are they really the most moral states in the country? he he
Posted by Ga6thDem at December 1, 2005 11:47 AMfuck muck some things never change..like the fact that you're an asslicking fascist moron..keep your fascist crap to yourself asshole...
Posted by headxray at December 1, 2005 11:47 AMHeadxray,
Muck is the kind of person that Abramoff would want on his jury. He would vote to acquit.
muckdog,
Your problem is that you think that your the only person writing here that can analyize anything. We're supposed to just swallow any numbers you throw out without question. When you're dealing with an audence that is mostly college graduates, reality doesn't work that way. You say that we don't understand the methodology in this survey, we understand it perfectly. Mississippi is the poorest state hence the rank of 50th (am I right so far?) and their percentage rank is 5th netting them a "score" of positive 45. Is that clear enough for you? BTW, the poorer states, which are mostly red states are more likely to score a little better because with a lower average income , it takes fewer dollars per person to increase the base. Your not the only person here who understands mathmatical formulas, not by a long shot.
Posted by rlp at December 1, 2005 11:52 AMGa6, you're telling me that there are no churches or temples or other places of worship outside of the south?
LOL
And aren't some of the people you mention on nationwide cable networks?
C'mon. Give me some data instead of just makin' stuff up.
Posted by muckdog at December 1, 2005 11:53 AMUh, did any of you visit the site to determine how they came up with the numbers?
Why, yes, as a matter of fact I did. I'm not disputing their methodology, I am disputing your interpretation of the index. The point remains that simply because you correlate two separate things (how one votes and how much one donates) you can't prove causation. That's up there with the underwire bras causing breast cancer.
Posted by ann at December 1, 2005 11:57 AMUsing muck's outlook (and that of this survey)the U.S. is one of the stingiest nations on the planet inspite of the fact that it is one of the wealthiest.
Posted by at December 1, 2005 12:01 PMQuit making stuff up Muck. I never said that there weren't churches. You are taking the percentages to mean that these people are giving all their money locally. Of course, they give to their churches but they are also being duped on a massive scale by televangelists. That would explain a lot of the difference between different areas of the country. I'm willing to bet that people in other parts of the country aren't larding up Pat Robertson's sorry butt.
I live here. You don't. I live among many fundamentalists who believe that people like Ralph Reed and Pat Robertson represent their "christian values."
A friend of mine lost her home to a fire. She went to the local Baptist church to get help. The baptist church told her they wouldn't help her. Fundamentalist churches are notoriously stingy when it comes to helping others. One of the first things they ask you when you go to church there is "how much money can you give me." They then hoard the money to build huge buildings but give nothing back to the community.
Sad but true.
You come here day in and day out talking about stingy GOPers.
Hmmmmm. Can't recall anyone talking about "stingy GOPers." Yes, we do discuss the current bumper crop of robber barons associated with the Republican party (and the White House) and the fact that Republicans always want to cut social programs at the expense of the lower class. But stingy? The only person I've heard whine about that is, well, you. You're like Bill O'Reilly raging against the people trying to steal Christmas - just because you believe it doesn't mean it's real.
Posted by ann at December 1, 2005 12:02 PMMuck,
Why do you think the southern baptists don't mention charity on their website? They talk about katrina disaster relief as a way to convert people. Go to their website sbc.net and check it out for yourself. They are only interested in a culture war not service to fellow citizens. I guess by your standards, OBL is a great philanthropist.
BTW - this is from the Muck referenced site.
A Few Facts About the Index
The Generosity Index, though imperfect because data is imperfect and we only report data, is stronger than some people are suggesting. A few facts to season the discussion:
1) Itemized Charitable Deductions are thought by independent research to capture about 80% of all charitable giving dollars (not volunteering, not large numbers of small gifts).
2) Income tax returns capture a much larger percent of personal income.
3) Most charitable giving is done by affluent taxpayers; itemization is heaviest among that group, with penalties for perjury if they exaggerate, and loss of tax deductions if they under-report.
4) Cost of living and tax burdens kick-in as inhibitors of charitable giving only below the top income levels.
5) Independent corroboration of the Generosity Index is that states' rankings generally follow what is known about religious giving patterns: 7 of the bottom 8 states are Catholic, while 11 of the top 22 states are Southern Baptist (the number would be higher if the category were broadened to include all Evangelical Protestants, such as Mormons. We would expect religious cultures to influence giving significantly, because religious giving accounts for over one-third (35.5% in 2004) of all charitable giving, the largest single field of interest to donors (Education: 13.6%, Health 8.8%).
So I see it as the rich who do not donate as much in the blue states are red states and they are not usually thought of as Liberals.
Posted by Jim Hurt at December 1, 2005 12:51 PMThere you go, Jim. Thanks for coming back with something.
Ann's answers are always interesting, because they contain lots of Democrat soundbites but very little information. Republican party (and the White House) and the fact that Republicans always want to cut social programs at the expense of the lower class.
Hmm. Well, speaking of those folks who you believe are entitled to things others have to work for, have you heard that the government is trying to figure out how to assist poor folks in paying their heating bills? Are folks entitled to a warm house in the winter or a cool house in the summer? Maybe the government should buy these folks a one-way Greyhound ticket to San Diego. I think the weather there is pretty mild year round. It'd be cheaper than trying to subsidize their poor choice of living environments through the seasons.
(Kind of reminds me of the people who claim that people work at Wal-mart because there aren't any other jobs there. MOVE SOMEWHERE ELSE!)
Seems like Ga6 has a bone to pick with the Southern Baptists. I believe many other religious organizations offer free meals that comes with a voluntary religious message.
And you only have to look as far as one of your own, Jimmy Carter, who has participated in efforts to help the unfortunate and spread "The Word." Are you telling me this is a bad thing? If so, why aren't you including Jimmy Carter in your list of Reed and Robertson? Don't you have a bone to pick with him, too?
Posted by muckdog at December 1, 2005 01:17 PMMuck,
You are being silly. Jimmy Carter broke with the Southern Baptist Convention and now is an independent baptist. The SBC hates Carter and has spent lots of time and money trashing him. You see, Carter, actually does something like build houses and the SBC doesn't like that.
Give it up Muck. Obviously, you don't understand fundamentalism.
Posted by Ga6thDem at December 1, 2005 01:21 PMAnn's answers are always interesting, because they contain lots of Democrat soundbites but very little information.
Very little information? I guess that's why you continue to debate me. And btw, I don't consider myself a Democrat, nor do I even read anything remotely close to the kind of GOP Talking Points that are distributed daily to your type. But it is really cute how you selectively respond to my posts and avoid anything outside of your standard talking points. Remember when you said we were fighting in Iraq because we need their oil? That was precious.
Hmm. Well, speaking of those folks who you believe are entitled to things others have to work for, have you heard that the government is trying to figure out how to assist poor folks in paying their heating bills? Are folks entitled to a warm house in the winter or a cool house in the summer? Maybe the government should buy these folks a one-way Greyhound ticket to San Diego. I think the weather there is pretty mild year round. It'd be cheaper than trying to subsidize their poor choice of living environments through the seasons.
(Kind of reminds me of the people who claim that people work at Wal-mart because there aren't any other jobs there. MOVE SOMEWHERE ELSE!)
You really exhibit a solid lack of empathy. Let me clarify this point for you: not everyone has the same skill set or abilities as you. Get it? One size simply does not fit all.
How about we get the government to stop subsidizing the oil industry before we kick the mentally disabled into the streets, ok? Cause I have a feeling that the oil companies can pull themselves up by their boot straps. Nuclear industry, too, why do we keep giving so generously to an industry that doesn't even want to take responsibility for their own waste?
Posted by ann at December 1, 2005 01:40 PMWhat do the leftist think about the UN's attempt exercise control over the Internet?
http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pdupont/?id=110007578
Posted by Bagley at December 1, 2005 04:49 PMIve done some searches of the mailing adresses/headquarters of the most well known organizations and groups that espouse some form of race-hatred, and,(suprise!} 99% of them are in muckdogs beloved philanthropic,"generous"red states. Obviously theyre not only genrous,but bastions of respect for civil liberties as well.
Posted by jondee at December 1, 2005 05:00 PMAs Tom Tomarrow says:" Stupid or Lying?".Which states offer the least in social services? Which states get the most "faith-based funding"? Which states most frequently along with thier selfless generousity put forth the subtle(and not-so-subtle) message "Jesus is a republican"?
Posted by jondee at December 1, 2005 05:40 PMHey Bagley,
I'm pretty sure you're not going to catch many fish with that bait.
How have you been? Did you have a good Thanksgiving? I hope so.
Posted by dorita at December 1, 2005 08:36 PMRed-state charity is all fine and good, but since we're bringing out numbers, how about these:
25 states gain a good deal of money from the federal government (i.e. for every $1 in taxes, they recieve $1.10+ for social services, etc.) Over 80% of the states voted Bush.
10 states "lose" significant amounts of money to the federal government -- they recover $0.90 or less on the dollar. (These also happen to be highly populated states like New York and California, so they end up "giving" a lot of money.) Kerry won 9 of the 10.
And which states and party complain about taxes as a drain???
Blue-staters are extraordinarily charitable toward their red neighbors, don't you think?
(For all the data, go here.)
"What's next for you folks? December really isn't December? Up isn't really up? Blue is green, 5=3, round=square? Shorts in the winter, jackets in the summer?"
Nope, you guys and your dear leader have already done that.
Posted by Judith at December 2, 2005 01:13 AMGa6thDem, you are sooo right about the Fundamentalist Churches. Not only do they build bigger and bigger churches, but they stuff their back pockets with millions and millions of dollars. They have never been that interested in doing things for their communities. To justify their life styles, they tell their congregations that God wants them to be rich. To be rich is outward proof that God blesses his people.
Posted by Judith at December 2, 2005 02:07 AM"Maybe the government should buy these folks a one-way Greyhound ticket to San Diego. I think the weather there is pretty mild year round. It'd be cheaper than trying to subsidize their poor choice of living environments through the seasons."
Yes, let those of us who made poor choices move to San Diego. That's brilliant Muck. Are you really void of all feelings for people? That's a serious question Muck. Are you?
mucky is a sociopath, I've told you that long ago. He's proven it time and again, otherwise he's pretending just to get people riled up. You just can't make him care about anyone but himself, so ignore him.
Posted by iamcoyote at December 2, 2005 05:59 AMDo you think living in North Dakota is a good idea if you can't find a job and have zero bank? There are more job opportunities elsewhere in addition to milder climates.
People make dumb choices. I'm not afraid to call them on it.
Posted by muckdog at December 2, 2005 08:26 AMHello Dorita,
"How have you been? Did you have a good Thanksgiving? I hope so."
Yes, I did. Thank you for asking.
May I wish you and yours all the best this Holiday Season and in the New Year.
Posted by Bagley at December 2, 2005 05:06 PM