I suspect what will happen now is:
A variety of respected legal scholars will offer opinions on the legality of these eavesdropping activities. Most if not all will declare it patently illegal. BushCo will then find some second tier legal scholars to provide a daffy song-and-dance about how it really is legal.
Ths ltst ply t strp th Prsdnt f hs Cnstttnl thrty t dfnd ths ntd Stts cnsttts prbbl cs t flly nvstgt th xtnt f th lft's schms f sdtn n tm f wr.
[Editor: ignore=off]Shorter Bendito:
"Oh yeah? We'll investigate & impeach you too!"
Nevermind that he and his ilk have been taking care of buisness that way since 1962.
Posted by idiosynchronic at December 20, 2005 06:18 AMI like how every wingnut comment on these strictly illegal, VERY un-Constitutional and VERY impeachable acts includes a completely unfounded and indefensible pronouncement like this one that he had "Constitutional authority" (or other words to that effect).
...and what source provided them with this vital "fact"? Why, our chimperor himself, of course!!!
To who else would you bother listening but Bu$hCo?
Posted by klevenstein at December 20, 2005 06:37 AMObviously Bendito's programmers didn't look up the definition of sedition.
Worthless piece of script.
Posted by snark at December 20, 2005 06:38 AM(the previous admittedly grants the other side some modicum of decency before Nixon and his dirty tricks squad became national.)
Anyway . . Doesn't the same philosophy of divine choice also form the basis for Papal Infallibility?
And I doubt I need to bring up that debate in the 2004 campaign where Bush couldn't think of any mistakes he made . .
Posted by idiosynchronic at December 20, 2005 06:38 AMSo, according to Bendito, any ciizen that dissents in time of war is guilty of sedition...
...and that would implicate all the Repugs who moved to impeach Bill Clinton in time of war!
They were guilty before Bush started his failure-ridden war, so let's just throw all their sorry Repug asses in jail.
Posted by klevenstein at December 20, 2005 06:45 AM"This latest ploy to strip the President of his Constitutional authority ...."
This Prez could care less about his real authority...It's his wants that really matter. As long as he and a few choice people get what they want ... the rest of the US and world can ...{use your fav phrase here} themselves!!!
Of course if it were a BJ in the White House...all of these supporters for our dear dear Prez ... would be demanding ...
or wait that would be Rhyming from history!
"And I doubt I need to bring up that debate in the 2004 campaign where Bush couldn't think of any mistakes he made . .
Posted by idiosynchronic"
I think he's doing a very slow flip-flop on that one. He's often a bit slower than we would really prefer our Presidents to be (that is, if we were given our choice, which seems to have been denied).
Posted by at December 20, 2005 06:50 AM"And I doubt I need to bring up that debate in the 2004 campaign where Bush couldn't think of any mistakes he made . .
Posted by idiosynchronic"
I think he's doing a very slow flip-flop on that one. He's often a bit slower than we would really prefer our Presidents to be (that is, if we were given our choice, which seems to have been denied).
Posted by klevenstein at December 20, 2005 06:50 AMThis latest ploy to strip the President of his Constitutional authority to defend these United States constitutes probable cause to fully investigate the extent of the left's schemes of sedition in time of war.
Posted by Bendito at December 20, 2005 06:10 AM
*****
Its gotta be sarcasm, y'all.
Nobody who wasn't attempting to parody a wingnut would write that tripe.
As sarcastic parody of wingnuttia, though, its pretty funny.
Posted by God Of War at December 20, 2005 07:38 AMHow can you strip him of authority he Doesn't have?
Posted by Goose1 at December 20, 2005 07:44 AMHe is relying in large part on the "war on terror" legislation. I seem to remember Bush declaring "Mission Accomplished" quite a while back, and Dick Cheney saying the insurgency was in its "last throes" nearly a year ago.
If that's the case, it would seem that any powers Bush believes he derived from that legislation no longer exist, as he has declared "mission accomplished." That infers to me that any "emergency" or imminent danger no longer exists.
Any validity to that argument?
John Masters
Tampa, FL
(813) 300-6897
I know it's hard to comprehend it when you live through it, but the lesson of history is that America as we knew it is over.
What America tomorrow will be, I don't know. My guess is that it'll ressemble Putin's Russia a lot. But who knows.
One thing I'm sure is, we can't turn back the clock, no more than the French, British, Germans, Japanese, Russians or Romans could when, at various times, their Empires began to falter and crumble.
What America tomorrow will be, I don't know. My guess is that it'll ressemble Putin's Russia a lot.
*****
Over my dead body.
Posted by God Of War at December 20, 2005 08:08 AMMine too.
Posted by rlp at December 20, 2005 08:14 AMTheir divine pretensions mark a swift, screeching halt to the similarities, however. From Wikipedia:
"Along with Alfred the Great, James is considered to have been one of the most intellectual and learned individuals ever to sit on the English or Scottish thrones."
What America tomorrow will be, I don't know. My guess is that it'll ressemble Putin's Russia a lot.
*****
Over my dead body.
I'm sure that suits them fine.
On the plus side, we'll still have better TV than the Russians.
Posted by Lupin at December 20, 2005 08:22 AMI've always told my kids that when Republicans start to take away people's guns, that's when the coup is starting. I was wrong. Probably a good time to get some guns now. My son will be pleased, he's been wanting to install a turret on the roof since we bought the house.
I will fight for my country, unlike the wimps like yesterday's trolls yelling out tough talk from under their beds while surrendering their rights with both hands.
Posted by iamcoyote at December 20, 2005 08:24 AMWhat America tomorrow will be, I don't know. My guess is that it'll ressemble Putin's Russia a lot.
*****
Over my dead body.
I'm sure that suits them fine.
Posted by Lupin at December 20, 2005 08:22 AM
*****
I won't be going out alone if that's the case.
Posted by God Of War at December 20, 2005 08:30 AMI've always told my kids that when Republicans start to take away people's guns, that's when the coup is starting. I was wrong. Probably a good time to get some guns now. My son will be pleased, he's been wanting to install a turret on the roof since we bought the house.
I will fight for my country, unlike the wimps like yesterday's trolls yelling out tough talk from under their beds while surrendering their rights with both hands.
Posted by iamcoyote at December 20, 2005 08:24 AM
*****
Yes, I've been looking for an excuse to get a nice new shiny Glock. And lo an behold, here it is.
Merry Christmas to me!
Posted by God Of War at December 20, 2005 08:34 AMiamcoyote,
Having guns is good, but more importantly you need to be stocking up on munitions for those guns. I would even go so far as to suggest stocking up on re-loading supplies. Guns are useless without ammo. We all need to be thinking about that day when "they" come knocking on our door. The question we need to ask ourselves is, When they do come a knockin', how are you gonna answer the door? With your hands on your head or on the trigger of your gun? As Benjamin Franklin said, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
It's a nice thought to examine the period of the English Civil War right now, I applaud the post.
But one crucial difference is that the Parliament of the 1630s was dead set on defending ITS historic rights and the rights of Englishmen.
I seriously doubt that our Republican Congress is of the same mettle as the Commons of 1640, who stood up to a king who asserted he was, by the will of God, not beholden to the duly enacted laws of Parliament.
After all, this Congress gives Bush all the funds he ever demands, most unlike the treatment Parliament meted out to Charles I in the 1630s.
Posted by euzoius at December 20, 2005 08:47 AMYou know, gun-guys, you won't have anybody to shoot at. This is not, will never be, RED DAWN.
They won't come specifically for you; the whole country will change around you -- as it is doing right now -- and there will always be some solid support for the change, and everything will be just a little tougher, but there never will be a battle.
The Leader will keep us safe from the Enemy outside; Elections will be a sham; News will be pablum; TV will keep people entertained, and the trains will run on time.
Your only practical choices will be (a) to leave the country; (b) to feel angry when you walk by the portrait of the Leader on your way to work every day but otherwise do nothing; or (c) effectively join the minority of active opponents, er, terrorists -- then they'll come for you with overwhelming force, take you away and rape then kill your family.
I'm not joking; I know what I'm talking about. I was in Spain under Franco, and had a few Chilean friends who'd left their country in the 70s. I'm old enough (50) to have seen it in real time, though I never thought that "it would happen here," as they say.
Things will turn, eventually, but it won't happen overnight and guns won't be the solution.
Posted by Lupin at December 20, 2005 08:50 AMjesus, i'm a big ol' gun-control liberal. do i gotta get a weapon, too? well, all right, make mine glock - shit, the things i'll do for this country. i can't even shoot straight! great, i'll be some lame-ass martyr for liberty.
but i still cling to the illusion that a Dem congress will impeach his ass. (as we've seen, expecting anything like patriotism from the GOP is like trying to teach a pig to talk.)
Posted by benjoya at December 20, 2005 08:56 AMThings will turn, eventually, but it won't happen overnight and guns won't be the solution.
I agree with Lupin. This is an insidious shift, not a grab and slash. And if they came to your door, you'd be outnumbered anyway, they'd take you out before you could take aim and fire.
The Leader will keep us safe from the Enemy outside; Elections will be a sham; News will be pablum; TV will keep people entertained, and the trains will run on time.
LOL. Sounds awfully familiar. Well, except for the part about the trains running on time.
Posted by ann at December 20, 2005 08:58 AMLupin,
You are right-on. My Glock post was snark. What you describe is reality. Your Franco comparison is very apt.
However, if they do come pounding down my door, they won't like what greets them.
Seriously though...can anyone envision the rank and file of the CIA doing Bush's bidding after what that little fuck has put them through? Not I.
Posted by God Of War at December 20, 2005 08:58 AMForget the glocks, buy American! Your life could depend on it!
Posted by at December 20, 2005 08:58 AMwhat is problem? russian system is like dream!
Posted by pooty-poot at December 20, 2005 08:59 AMpooty-poot is right. the good people of russia respect authoritarianism, i mean authority. we could learn a lot from them.
Posted by dubya at December 20, 2005 09:01 AMSeriously though...can anyone envision the rank and file of the CIA doing Bush's bidding after what that little fuck has put them through? Not I.
Nor can I envision US soldiers firing on "homegrown Patriots/terrorists" who are trying to protect their country. The government knows this as well, that's why they are spreading/stretching our forces all over the globe. So who will do their bidding? Foreign "assets", coming to a neighborhood near you.
Posted by patriot at December 20, 2005 09:03 AMTo declare my position (as some of you from Kos may know) my wife and I (no kids) decided to, and did, leave the country after the "election" last year. A basically "I'm too old to go through it again" thing.
Putin's Russia is not Hell. There are people doing very well there. You can travel. (Have you been to the Costa Brava lately? It looks like Crimea.) You can do lots of things. I don't think they're going to have another revolution.
But it's not America.
But then neither is America today, and less so every day.
We slew the dragon and are turning into a dragon ourselves. How ironical. Brezhnev must be having quite a laugh in his boiling pit of tar down there.
I highly recommend the newly published book by Jimmy Carter, "Our Endangered Values" if you want to understand how far America has fallen and some insight on the path taken to get here.
In the section on American Foreign Policy, Jimmy Carter talks about the influence that Christian Fundamentalists have on Middle East policy. Many of these Christians believe it is their personal responsibility to hasten the coming of the "rapture' or the end of the world according to the biblical prophosies in the book of Revelation.
In order to fulfill the biblical prophosies, Christians must (1) wage war in the Middle East on Islam (Iraq) and (2) Jews must occupy the entire holy land (West Bank). These events will lead to the coming of the Messiah and the end of the world.
Their objective is not to bring peace, democracy, freedom or justice.
They believe they will be rewarded in heaven if they wage war on Islam and bring about the destruction of the world.
How exactly do you define terrorism?
For now I have to watch our constitution get shit on by an idiot!
I'll bide my time for now. Let the politicians do their thing.
When the time comes, I know surival techniques, I know how to shoot straight if anybody needs lessons, (expert, U.S. Army, I got the medals to prove it). I'll swap for computer lessons!
Lupin, you might be right but there is always room for organized opposition!
I refuse to live or have my son grow up in a complete fascist state!
The truth in the 'right to bear arms' was not that it was written into the Constitution so that we might protect ourselves from foreign fighters, but so that we might protect ourselves from a government out of control. The founding fathers instructed us to not be afraid of another revolution and that another revolution might be necessary.
Posted by Anjha at December 20, 2005 09:27 AMLupin, you are so right! (My son will have to wait until we get that compound built in the deep woods.) I think that's where my frustration comes from; the slow erosion of our rights over time will not be noted or objected to by the sheep watching American Idol and thinking that their vote counts there, too. All I can think of is Riverbend waking up every morning wondering if this will be the day that her mother says "you must wear this burka, or someone will come kill us all." How can you go back, once it's happened?
Posted by iamcoyote at December 20, 2005 09:28 AMI know survival techniques.
I just can't spell it sometimes!
I always thought the "The Right to Bear Arms", was needed because they had to hunt for food first and protection second!
But that's just me!
Well, I think the debate on the second amendment is over, we're gonna keep our guns. That's fine with me, this old southern boy has always known that gun control was really a bad idea. The only thing it ever accomplished was to lose the Democrats a few votes. Granted, not many, but a few, including me in 1988. Sorry guys, I just couldn't vote for Dukakis. BTW, contrary to the claims of some rightwingers, Russians do own firearms, rural Russians love to hunt and not just with bows.
Some have mentioned the threat of "managed democracy" elections that have the appearence of openness and honesty but which are in fact detetermined through inequities in the access to rescources and infomation in such a way that the pro-government side is sure to win. This is the true danger to American democracy long term. We have a congressional election coming up that is unusually importiant. With all the scandals and problems today, if the Republicans keep total control of the government next year, be it by the free choice of scared, ignorant voters or by manipulation, it will bode badly for the future. It will reinforce the idea that this electorate will never hold those in charge responsible for anything. The bad laws that have been passed this year will be just the prelude to the total impunity and arrogance that would then come.
Posted by rlp at December 20, 2005 09:41 AMthe original post reminds me of another historical event, of which comes this account, from last Sunday's Times Book Review:
Before the war (author Evans explains), Germany underwent a brutal and chilling transformation. Behind a facade of legality, the Nazis dismantled the established protections of law. Not satisfied to merely crush a lively if troubled democracy, they used their police state and the mass media to dissolve tranditional alliegances. Replacing most forms of organized social life with new, Nazi-themed activities, they left citizens with no place to share heretical thoughts. The result was a nightmare version of a normal modern society, with popular entertainment manipulating public enthusiasms and hatreds, and the goverment intruding into the intimate matters of the mind and body while demanding an end to the coddling of the weak.
It is suprisingly hard to say just what Nazism was, other than a vague if radical ideology. Hitler, a leader bored by administrative detail, left the way open for endless squabbles among his fanatical and often corrupt subordinates...Particularly fraught was the Nazi state's relationship with the Roman Catholic Church and the established Protestant church. Neither was completely Nazified, but many church leaders heartily endorsed the Nazi's anti-Communism and anti-Semetism.
sound familiar?
Nothing would be less surprising than learning that Rove (or one of the brain trust) is an avid student of Nazi history.
The parallels are simply too close to be coincidences.
Posted by euzoius at December 20, 2005 10:20 AMHey, not that I am really that slow, but look at all of the news about spying on Americans in the last few weeks. Not only is it the NSA, it is the Pentagon, the CIA, the FBI. GW is using every agency in his disposal to spy on us. Can you imagine how much data that he has.
Posted by Anjha at December 20, 2005 10:22 AMThis is a great time to remind everyone about William Shirer's Rise And Fall of the Third Reich. Shirer knew all of the major national leaders all over Western Europe, and was there for most of the major events leading up to the rise of the Nazis and the end of democratic rule in Germany. His testimony of those events matches much of what is going on in America today.
We are almost to the point where the legislature abolishes itself, along with the court system, so that Der Fuhrer wouldn't have any delaying problems ruling.
Posted by pessimist at December 20, 2005 10:32 AMNor can I envision US soldiers firing on "homegrown Patriots/terrorists" who are trying to protect their country.
Patriot, let's not forget that history says you could be wrong. National Guardsmen have fired on Americans, and not so long ago. Don't forget Kent State and other situations.
Posted by bjohnm at December 20, 2005 12:11 PMNothing would be less surprising than learning that Rove (or one of the brain trust) is an avid student of Nazi history.
The parallels are simply too close to be coincidences.
Posted by euzoius at December 20, 2005 10:20 AM
*****
I want that 30 seconds with that fucker.
30 seconds.
Posted by God Of War at December 20, 2005 12:47 PMBendito is a good example of someone who practices such extreme circle logic all he ends up with is his dick in his hands.
Practice abstenance only like your beloved Fueror orders Bendito. You're too fucking stupid to reproduce.
Posted by Monica at December 20, 2005 12:50 PMInstead of hiding away his "disapproval of illegal spying - note to self", should'nt Rocky have nailed it to the door at 1600 ala Martin Luther? As in giving a Jesus-rube a blank check to start a war, anyone in congress who was notified of illegal spying, and did nothing are complicit chickenshitz. P.S. Glocks are fine weapons, but should'nt patriots "buy American"?
Posted by TIKI AL at December 20, 2005 01:13 PMWell we all know where this Nazi shit came from; old Grandad Prescott Bu$h! He fullfills Daddy's Iraq destiny, now it's on to his Grandpa's legacy!
Survival of bu$h's fittest; fuck everyone that is poor, uneducated, non-christian, gay, unhealthy, and people of color. Maybe we'll let you stay in our circle if you believe like we do but don't get to close!!