Why is this in the Defense Bill? [/obvious]
Posted by iamcoyote at January 2, 2006 02:08 PMThe defense bill was passed under House "Martial Law" on Sunday, December 18, the infamous day when the Hastert House did an unprecedented thing - they said House rules requiring 24 hours to read legislation before voting would be suspended for anything and everything, regardless of topic, introduced that day. Then they rammed through a 700+ page extension to the Defense bill during the reconciliation (utterly unprecedented) and gave people 4 hours (from its introduction) to read/consider it before the vote.
They counted on the fact that most Republicans and many Dems would be loathe to oppose defense spending bill while we have operations in Iraq.
So, Hastert stuffed the Defense bill with school voucher programs, ANWR and anything else the GOP leadership thought might work.
It's time for reform of the House rules. House leadership simply cannot be trusted in this way anymore.
Posted by raisin at January 2, 2006 02:40 PM"two-term approach to trying to change the way we do education in America."
Term #1 -Underfund No Child left behind but enforce high goals.
Term #2 -Fund your backers and leave the rest behind.
I live in Baton Rouge and all the schools here, public & private, did a terrific job in getting the Katrina evacuees into their classrooms. This is true all over the south.
Normally I agree with keeping public funds out of private schools (and my child attends a Catholic school) but this was an emergency beyond anything else that has ever occurred in the past. All these schools deserve to reimbused for the important service they performed.
Posted by Red Stick at January 2, 2006 05:17 PMRed Stick,
Fair enough - our concern is that this won't stop, that it'll just whet the appetites of the constituents and start spreading our tax money towards causes of which we do not approve.
Posted by DukeRevolution at January 2, 2006 05:26 PMthat it'll just whet the appetites of the constituents and start spreading our tax money towards causes of which we do not approve.
Wich they already do anyway. These guys cannot be trusted.
Posted by SnarkyShark at January 2, 2006 05:32 PMThis whole 11th hour crap from congress has got to stop. Can we get congress to separate the bills?
Also, what the repukes where trying to get away with on ANWR in the Senate was an injustice. And who comes away with the black eye from twisted news?...the Dems of course.
The Democratic Party has to make sure the public is aware that these last minute attachments are attributed to the republican party. It's the repukes who want the Dems to look bad when they vote down a bill that bu$h is begging the congress to pass.
Posted by bbtb at January 2, 2006 06:05 PMIf Bush can break the law by outing CIA agents and ignoring the FISA court, why not break the law regarding church & state? The guy is just a common (but wealthy) thug.
Posted by Cookie Monster at January 2, 2006 06:06 PMChurch and state has been blurred way too much and it has been little bits at a time so that people do not notice.
If they attempt unintelligent design in my kid's school I'm yanking him out and homeschooling. I would also fight the school board tooth and nail.
This is ridiculous.
I understand the schools for Katrina victims being reimbursed, but this would be a redirection of funds - not vouchers.
Posted by Anjha at January 2, 2006 06:23 PMI thought using federal funds for tuition in religious schools was unconstitutional. Maybe I'm not up to date here.
And I don't know about "reforming" any of these Hastert House rules abuses.
If the Republicans retain control in 2006, the abuses can't get much worse than what we have seen already----they've already bribed and blackmailed members, kept the vote open for hours and effectively prevented READING the legislation, for Christ's sake. No amendments, insane grab bags of unrelated nonsense, etc, etc.
And who will care anymore about the future of the country if neither branch of Congress changes control in 2006? That will be the end of this little "democracy" show, realistically.
And if the Dems ever regain control of the House, they should continue to operate under all of these Republican rules---except now the tables will be turned.
Certainly House Republicans should have the same abuses rammed down their throats for a good long time. So they can really internalize it.
How else can retribution be exacted for the Hastert era crimes and abuses? Once a system (like the House) has become corrupted, it can't just be reformed to remove the abuses---the party that benefitted from the corruption has to suffer the same outrages that they perpetrated, else they (and their supporters) will never learn the lessons of abuse of power.
Posted by euzoius at January 2, 2006 06:31 PMNormally I agree with keeping public funds out of private schools (and my child attends a Catholic school) but this was an emergency beyond anything else that has ever occurred in the past. All these schools deserve to reimbused for the important service they performed.
Agree 100%, but thats not their only goal
Posted by soccerdad at January 2, 2006 06:37 PMAnd if the Dems ever regain control of the House, they should continue to operate under all of these Republican rules---except now the tables will be turned.Posted by euzoius at January 2, 2006 06:31 PM
Ignoring the rules by the Dem side will not solve anything.
Restoring Democracy, by following the rules, is the only thing that will save this country.
Pelosi introduced legislation to restore rules and to make the Speaker responsible for enforcing them; it was killed. Not even a vote, just killed.
On the night of the defense bill I watched Kucinich frantically trying to read through all of the extra pages. People were coming forward and trying to get clarification and object and make amendments. The Repubs were brutal and sarcastic and arrogant. No amendments were allowed.
It was really an ugly sight. There are so many of the WH's little bitches in the house; we really need to get it back.
I wonder if any of those assholes ever go back and watch their behavior, it would be akin to someone seeing their drunken exhibit from the night before on video - at least I think that it would cause immense shame. But then again, these guys are shameless.
What concerns me is something from the first link in the post -- the government doesn't even know how many children displaced by the two hurricanes are in nonpublic schools. There will be a survey, applications etc. but I see a great potential for abuse -- especially if the August 2006 sunset is changed and the program is somehow continued.
Posted by dorita at January 2, 2006 06:59 PMDorita, they still do not know how many children are dead. Last I heard, there are still 6000 people missing. Has the media covered this?!?!
Posted by Anjha at January 2, 2006 07:03 PM"...brutal and sarcastic and arrogant."
Anjha, The republican party thinks this is how we should be unititing this nation. This is what happens when we have no checks and balances.
One word: Sickening!
Posted by bbtb at January 2, 2006 07:12 PMI was just going to mention the missing kids as well!
Posted by bbtb at January 2, 2006 07:14 PMTalk about unintended concequences, but from what I've seen from europe, the quickest way to secularize Americans and turn them against organized religion would be to tie the "church" in with the corruption of the state. Here in America, the church has been seperate from the state for over 200 years and were one of the most religious nations on earth. In europe, there is a tradition of state churches, but almost no one attends them on sundays.
The so called religious right has no idea what the long term impact of their desired policies is likely to be.
Posted by rlp at January 2, 2006 07:31 PM"Church and state has been blurred way too much and it has been little bits at a time so that people do not notice."
Anjha, that's how they do it. That's how our rights are being taken away, just a little bit at a time, until one day you wake-up, and find out it's to late to go back and your freedoms are gone. The stupidity of people never ceases to amaze me.
Posted by Judith at January 2, 2006 08:07 PMFair enough??? This exact subject about the vouchers being used by private schools was talked about on the blogsphere immediately after the passing of the defense bill. The New York Sun is just writing about it?
::sighing, while looking for the links::
Posted by Night Bird at January 2, 2006 09:56 PMSorry, I was simply trying to take one issue at a time. Whether there is media coverage of the situation here (Anjha -- I am here where it happened -- the issues are vast) on any one point is neither here nor there for the purposes of this thread -- just IMHO. My point was that the government doesn't have a clue about the number of children in either type of school from hurricane impacted areas. Schools which had been closed were reopened. Teachers and support staff were hired back in September. It is now January. Guess who has been paying and will continue to pay for that, with only the hope of reimbursement? All the children's families and the children themselves who are here. Can you imagine your child's school doubling enrollment? It costs the Houston ISD millions a day. But you know what? We're not kicking anybody out. We're educating them.
Now my concern is that nonpublic schools will get more than their fair share of federal money to cover taking care of these children. After all HISD has done, I fear that we will get the short end of the deal. My second concern is that those who want federal funding for education will find this a toe hold from where they can launch something even more devious. And education is only one piece.
I apologize for my omission.
Posted by dorita at January 2, 2006 09:56 PMand your point is night bird?
Dorita, I was not disagreeing with you, my statement was in regards to how much they have messed up this entire process. They do not even know where the people are who are missing (or they are just keeping the true death total hidden - either way I find it outrageous.) Which adds to your argument - how can they possibly determine where these funds should go?
The second point was that shouldn't federal funds just be redistributed? Wouldn't that make sense instead of adding vouchers? This is sincere questioning; not being argumentative.
I really don't understand how vouchers will help public schools; they are two separate issues and should be treated as such. I thought that vouchers were the ability for people to take the federal funds that would have been disbursed to public schools for your child and use them in private schools. So, they add vouchers to the mix, and voila, precedent.
According to the article, many of the displaced kids went to private schools and it makes sense that their parents would want to continue to have them in private schools and also no longer have the ability to pay.
It is really a difficult situation. I understand the parents wanting that. I understand the public schools needing the funds.
As far as using federal funds for religious schools - wasn't that at one time settled with Memorial and Remonstrance.
I think that the whole thing sounds fishy. And I am glad that you pointed out that they will try to figure a way to keep this going...probably by saying that it is because of the 'war on terir' and that those who oppose it are traitors.
Posted by Anjha at January 3, 2006 07:09 AM...Now they are taking on the public schools. When they are done, we will have a system of religious schools and home schools, paid-for at public expense, that will dutifully indoctrinate children in their theocratic ways...For those who still scoff at all this, its time to start reading up.
Not that soccerdad needs backup, but:
Based upon my experience, "theocratic ways" can be defined by whatever lies beyond your greatest fear.
Posted by OffTheFence at January 4, 2006 01:38 AM