Let's not forget former Dept. of Interior number 2 man, Steven Griles involvement.

Wow,

“a four-fold increase in citations under the new ownership of International Coal Group”

Considering that ICG has only owned this mine for 36 days, I’d say that’s some new record – in misinformation, not safety violations.

Try again Steve.

Correction - maybe....

There are a couple of different dates being reported for ICG taking control.

They could have been there 66 days.

"“a four-fold increase in citations under the new ownership of International Coal Group”

Considering that ICG has only owned this mine for 36 days, I’d say that’s some new record – in misinformation, not safety violations."

OK, I'll play. How about this: ICG...due diligence? Duh, what's that?

West, you have no credibility why do you even bother.

u. jest, If you would have read the links it states that ICG has owned it since March. That's 10 months...dude!!

Correct correction....

47 days. Fucking lazy media.

"On November 18, 2005, the Company also completed the acquisitions of
Anker and CoalQuest Development LLC ("CoalQuest") pursuant to (i) the Anker
Business Combination Agreement"

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1320934/000095012305013993/0000950123-05-013993.txt

I'm sure this will be the spin to deflect blame to the Govenor and the Mayor of the nearest town.

Since International Coal Group reopened the Upshur County mine in 2004, it has been cited 276 times. The bulk of these citations -- 208 -- were issued in 2005.

West you are wrong. (oh your link is about the company reorganization)

So I guess the key word is "completed"? ICG had a press release on 4/1/05 that it was acquiring Anker Coal Group for 300 million.
http://www.intlcoal.com/pages/news/2005/20050401Anker.cfm

Look, what's the problem with a few dead miners. The company needs to make money. Impeach them ALL before they destroy this contry.

ujest, I second the fact that your credibility here is as good as keeping your word and promises...both of which are meaningless.

It doesn’t matter.

I’m sure tomorrow Raw Story will have an article (full of anonymous “high placed” sources) saying that Cheney and Abramoff were seen running from the mine shortly after the explosion.

Kos will speculate that the mine is where the republicans hide the tsunami/hurricane machine that we use to kill non-whites in order to free up land for luxury condos.

Jeralyn will call for murder charges to filed against Bush.

Apparently, there is a big (and willing) market of critical thinkers for this type of “news”.

If only the Bush administration had allowed the United Mine Workers union to buy this operation……oh, that’s right – they didn’t want it.

If only there was a better way to mine the coal that wouldn’t place these people in danger…..oh, there is – but environmentalist won’t allow it.

Like I said, it doesn’t matter. Somehow, someway, it’s all Bush’s fault.

West, You guys blame clinton for everything even 5 years after he left. Please go away, you just make a fool of yourself every time you post. You have no honor or credibility so yes everything you say doesn't matter.

I just listened to a company spokesman (didn't catch his name) attempt to praise the rescusers( as it should be) before he began blaming 'unauthorized' cell phone message and misinformation from local clergy as to why people belived at first that most of the missing were saved. Nowhere in the statement was there any discussion of why the accident in the first place.

Obfuscate and redirect, and all will be well in corporate America?

jwest,

nitpicking asshole.

Look at the trees! Ignore the forest!

Actually, for once I didn't mind ujest's comments, if only he would have stayed on topic. I also know he has lost credibility here with the Wilson faux pas.

Steve's point is legitimate, bu$h want's to help but he contributed to the failure. His policies are in direct contradiction to the safe operation of a mine. Hell, Ross didn't let his workers be union. Lax safety rules allow for mistakes to happen. Where I used to work if we did not have a good management team behind us we could not have a good safety program. Now what is a company going to do, pay for safety? In mining like other industries, it's cost prohibitive! Remember the bottom line, it's not lives, injuries or caring about families, it's the almighty buck!
When it comes down to morals and ethics, business and bu$h have neither.

I actually laughed when I heard bu$h say he would start an investigation...like his investigation of Katrina? That's really going well!

I just listened to a company spokesman (didn't catch his name) attempt to praise the rescusers( as it should be)

Agreed. Last night, when the news was that 12 had survived, they were widely claiming it as a "miracle." While I was ecstatic, my wife and I got angry at the emphasis on "miracle." It denigrated the efforts of incredibly hard working rescuers.

bbtb,

Steve’s point isn’t legitimate.

It’s the same old liberal knee jerk, anti-corporate, uninformed hate speech so prevalent on the left.

To try and denigrate a true American hero like Wilbur Ross is just despicable. Here’s a guy who invests in dying industries – steel, coal, textiles…..textiles for christ’s sake…….and he saves thousands of jobs – whole communities.

He did this while making these industries profitable. And no, profitable is not a dirty word. By being profitable, the people who work there aren’t welfare cases in some job program, but dignified workers contributing to society.

The unionized steel workers think this guy walks on water.

How about waiting until we know what happened in that mine before demonizing every (republican) person associated with it?

West GO AWAY! You are a proven Liar! GIVE IT UP MAN.

Were not talking about Ross, I mentioned him.

Your still missing the point, bu$h's policies are not benefitting the worker's safety! And what investigation will come about? Like Katrina's?

Ross buys up companies at a cut rate from favors he has received from governmental hacks. He's taking advantage of a system that is sick. And the wages and benefits aren't that great, I have a brother in law that works for him.

Profitable IS a dirty word if it comes at the cost of peoples lives.

While I was watching Letterman punk o'lielly over and over last night, I was also reading the AP? article that said that 12 miners were still alive, even though the article itself never really said that.

Imagine my surprise and dismay when this morning I find out it was all a horrible mistake.

I was watching CNN and the O'Briens were going on and on about the tragedy and how this could have happened, etc, the false report that is, and I'm thinking, that's all kinds of messed up, a preventable tragedy to begin with, then a truly fucked up ending. And I can't even begin to imagine what the young survivor is going to go through, the guilt and the nightmares.

But then I'm thinking, I'll bet money that the press had a hand in it as well, but to Miles and Soledad, it was just a great tragedy to spend the whole morning on.

And that's what they've done.

There's nothing wrong with corporate profit.

There is something wrong with reckless disregard for life and safety. The two are not mutually exclusive.

j.pest cannot distinguish between the two, which renders him a moronic asshole of the lowest caste. Grow a fucking cerebral cortex, you logic-fucking idiot.

bbtb,

I mentioned Ross because Steve tracked back to his previous post concerning him. You could let me know which communities George Soros has saved, just so I don’t bad mouth him sometime.

If there is some Bush policy that I don’t know about reducing safety standards in mines, share it with the group. Honestly, republicans don’t want to kill workers. We follow the advice put forth in the “Godfather” - Blood is a big expense.

Finally, the story of Katrina didn’t end with Brownie’s resignation. We’ve got hundreds of thousand of emails to go through to find the truth. It will come out prior to November ’06.

I heard an interview with the head of the UMW (United Mine Workers of America) this morning. He stated that all of the safety regulations for the mine workers were written in blood; they were all based on lessons learned after people died.

When someone buys a union shop and makes it non-union, the workers no longer have the bargaining power and no longer have the power to ensure that safety regs are implemented and enforced.

I know nothing about the owner of this mine, he seemed extremely sincere at the news conference this morning, but I don't know. I still feel that big money is about big money and not worker's rights.

People don't give people jobs - workers sell their services. There would be NO corporate profit without the workers, as such, workers should be honored and treated well.

What really incensed me was Bu$hCo at his war mongering, be afraid, speech this morning. He started by saying that 'his prayers were with the families of the miners.' Which IS exactly what he should have said.

However, when was the last time that I heard him opening any of his pro-war speeches with 'my prayers are with the four or eight or sixteen families that lost their loved ones in MY WAR today.'

That's what pissed me off above all today. Rubbing salt in wounds.

"...reducing safety standards in mines", H2O, west, read up on it. Bush pretty much did away with Clinton's proposal's on it.

Steve’s point isn’t legitimate.

There's a shocker.

I’m sure tomorrow Raw Story will have an article (full of anonymous “high placed” sources) saying that Cheney and Abramoff were seen running from the mine shortly after the explosion.

Has Farrakhan had the mic in front of him since the tragedy?

West, You guys blame clinton for everything even 5 years after he left.

Why didn't Clinton do anything to get America off of Oil and Coal during his 8 year reign, aka "Heaven on Earth?"

H2O?

Is Bush against water now?

You're really being an ass now. See what happens when I ask you to stay.

Water standards in general. In fact most environmental legislation Clinton had the country ready to roll on.

But you knew that, didn't you west. Times up!

For the rest on the thread, I know, I should have listened. Sorry!

Why didn't Clinton do anything to get America off of Oil and Coal during his 8 year reign, aka "Heaven on Earth?" Posted by Muck

****************
Muck, you dumb ass, does Republican controlled congress mean anything to you? Clinton was constantly vetoing AND in negotiations with the Congress to get his GOOD policies through.

I remember Ronald Reagan and GHW Bush signing legislation mandating increases in water quality, but I can't think of one by Clinton.

Your not talking about the bogus arsenic boobytrap he laid on his last day in office, are you?

but I can't think of one by Clinton. Posted by JWest
*********
I'm gonna give you one at a time:
Great Lakes

West go away! It doesn't matter what you say when you have no credibility!!! Understand?

More

PDF

And if you are really interested in proof to refute you, take some time and read this.

Gore was the most environmentally aware and active person ever in the WH.

Let's tackle water quality on a different thread some other time.

This should be devoted to Soto's mean spirited attack on truth, justice and the american way.

Let's tackle water quality on a different thread some other time.

This should be devoted to Soto's mean spirited attack on truth, justice and the american way.

Posted by j.west at January 4, 2006 02:27 PM
************
You brought it up. Chicken-shit.

Every single environmental policy and PDFworker safety policies have been rolled back.

This is Bush's great legacy and for him to "investigate" it is a crock of shit.

He needs to be investigated. Period.

And, he proposed to cut the MSHA by $7 million.

Do you think he cares at all about mining families?

Do you think he cares at all about any families?

Oh, snap! Anjha, we're not worthy!

DEC 2004 "BUSH POLICY THREATENS MINERS HEALTH"

I'll summarize for you ujest, seeing as how you have so much reading to do.

Basically, GW puts someone in charge of occupational safey who was a former mine owner. This works real well, you see, for the owners of the mines. This is a corporate sympathizer, NOT a worker sympathizer.

You are all stupid "staters of the obvious" - I know this about clinton, I know this about bush... blah blah blah.

Time to take over the government ourselves, isn't it?

You all seem to know all that is right and good, why don't YOU run for office and be held responsible for EVERYTHING.

Peace,

Libby

Libby, we are supposed to run the government. That is how this DEMOCRACY works. Remember, OF, BY and FOR the people.

Representative Democracy.

Look it up.

Oh, snap! Anjha, we're not worthy!

Posted by iamcoyote at January 4, 2006 03:07 PM
************
Thanks iamcoyote.

A little fired up today. Hours in doc offices. Frustrated.

Take'n it out on the trolls.

I am just so amazed that evidence means nothing. How much proof does one need?

People inside his party and his departments are flipping left (pardon the pun) and right on a daily basis because they can see that he is out of control and wrong. Then there are those who continue to support him no matter what is presented.

The good thing about researching tho' - I learn even MORE with even MORE data. Stuff to keep the rage coming. As long as I am angry there can be action. It is the despair that will get me.

You all seem to know all that is right and good, why don't YOU run for office and be held responsible for EVERYTHING.

OMG, is that the funniest thing you've heard all day? So, what you're saying is "Presidentin' is hard work??" Even a first grader would find this childish. Thanks for the laugh!

It's a scary day when Newt seems like a left winger. He, and I might add others, are right about one thing. Either the Republicans reform and immediately, the lobbying rules, or they will not be in control come 2006.

Oops, sorry, wrong thread.

P.S. You know West is an idiot, so why respond. How many times before you understand he doesn't let facts get in his way (or any Republican for that matter)?

Anjha,

Quoting the People’s Daily? And David Corn, jeesh – I thought even liberals didn’t read him anymore.

I’ll need to check on the 7 million “reduction” to see the details. Crazed liberals have a way of calling the slowing of increases “reductions”. If it is an actual reduction (meaning MSHA got less actual dollars than they did the year previously), I’ll have to bookmark it. It will be the first agency I’ve ever heard of doing less with less.

Upset because Bush’s guy “spiked” the proposed changes that Clinton couldn’t get through in 8 years?

Could you link back to some of your criticism when Clinton was in office so I know the exact proposals you’re talking about?

And coyote……I’ve got your “snap” right here.

Jump over to Huffingtonpost.com and get a load of the picture of Bush. That's his response to the OSP.

What's a little death when there are profits to be made?

Enviroment, Health & Safety, Disaster Management...

Sounds like a Gore/Blanco ticket in '08!

Tell me where to send the check.

Swill, bullshit, deflection, blather and denial.
Posted by j.west at January 4, 2006 04:11 PM

*****
Tell ya what dude, why don't you read the links, then get back to me on what facts are incorrect and I'll find more facts to refute you.

Still obsessed with Blanco, eh, u.jest?

One of the dead miners used to pray for the guys on the next shift who had to follow him down every day. Tells you something about life as a miner, doesn't it. And it hasn't changed an iota since George Orwell wrote The Road To Wiggan Pier in the 1930's.

Wilbur Ross, Chairman of ICG, will be on Paula Zahn tonight. Starts in just a few minutes.

螺旋板式换热器
减震器
剪切机

he seemed extremely sincere at the news conference this morning

That may very well be. I'm sure that he was concerned and heartbroken (who couldn't be?). However, there is a disconnect between what the owners generally feel as overreaching governement regulations. They think most of the issues are trivial or the risk is too low to cut into margins to fix. It only hits home when shit like this happens.

They are absolutely correct when saying that all mining regulations are written in blood. The same thing can be said of actual enforcement as well.

Can't wait for the H20 conversation. That one gunna be loads of fun. Not only quality but corporations are quickly privitizing water rights to exploit diminishing resources for profits.

I’ll need to check on the 7 million “reduction” to see the details.

While you are at it you could maybe google the 170 positions cut in MSHA staff during little Adolf's reign. Hurry! Sieg Heil the president gasman while the snappy straight-arm salute is still in vogue. No doubt you're the kind of neo-con git who actually believes you've made an impact. I assure you, you have not. You need to get back to Hanoi-Hannity and Rush-the-Lush. You'll at least find succor with those in the shadows...just like you.

Finally, the story of Katrina didn’t end with Brownie’s resignation.

Try telling that to Oklahoma and Texas. The Feds have promised to get back to them on their disasters too. Wish in one hand...etc.

W-09: Frog-March to the Hague

2006 is starting off in grand form!

phidipides: I've haven't seen much from you in the past months. Bravo on your return. Glad to see it.

j west......oh lordy.

Texas and Oklahoma had grass fires.

Where is FEMA? “We’re coming to get you Momma” (a little Aaron Broussard channeling)

Did you expect Bush to fly down to pass out water and meals? Should the federal government come wipe your ass for you?

Get a spine transplant, grow some balls, learn some self sufficiency and quit whining.

P-dippy! I wish you'd stay a while.

W-09: Frog-March to the Hague

If there's any justice in the world...oh, yeah. Well, a dreamer dreams.

Paula Zahn dedicated about 3 seconds to balance with her comments tonight in the interview with Wilbur Ross.

She started right off by accusing him of murdering the miners. Being the gentleman he is, Mr. Ross resisted the temptation of reaching across the table to slap her up side her head.

After pointing out that the mine has had 168 violations since 2004, she said (almost as an aside) “to be fair, you only bought the mine in November”.

Typical CNN interview.

J. West,

You've made some excellent points here today.

What is shameful is the way the liberals immediately politicize tragedy in their warped thinking that it will hurt Bush. There are days when I feel sorry for them because they are living under their delusions. And then there are days like today when I have no sympathy for them at all and can only look forward to their continued thrashing at the polls.

They deserve it.

Wow, guys, get a room. You'll both forgive me if I choose to reserve judgement on the interview until I read the transcript myself? Somehow, I don't think your interpretations of what actually went down can be trusted.

David,

Thanks for compliment. This is the last place on earth I expected one.

I’ve read your work and know that you share the pity I feel for the ill-informed. As rational people, we keep the hope alive that some day liberals will let go of their hatred and face facts.

There are closet neo-neocons that read this site but are too afraid to post. It’s up to us to bring these budding capitalists into the light.

The Template is always the same when it comes to the Liberals.

They live for anything that is negative that might help reinforce their hatred for anything that is Republican or Bush.

Certainly it is possible that something criminal may have happened that caused this tragedy, and perhaps a slack government agency had something to do with it, but as of this moment we dont' know anything substantive other than these large number of violations.

I agree with David and J. West, that you liberals are very much like the current media. If it Bleeds it leads. The difference might be that while the media goes out looking for the negative stories to graphically show on television, you liberals love and relish it.

C'mon, admit it, everytime a car bomb goes off in Iraq, a small part of you winces, and hopes that maybe this might change the tide and may help get Bush impeached.

They are too afraid to post simply because there is no defending your neocons and the Chimp. You are just a sorry repeat of the losers that went down with the Titanic - Nixon - thinking he did nothing wrong. And this bunch of manure makes Nixon look like a saint.

If it bleeds it leads

Sorry, that's Donald Rumsfeld's favorite saying.

The other problem liberals have (and don't realize - yet) is that the MSM is actually hurting them with their biased reporting. They reinforce the liberals worldview and in doing so make them think that their view of the world is shared by all when nothing could be further from the truth.

Take the last 2 major elections cycles (2002 and 2004). Both times the media trumpeted polls that showed that the Dem's held a large advantage over Repub's in Congress. But we know now that the polls were done in a way to get the results they wanted (as they do all the time). And both times the Dem's lost big. If you've been here much the last month, you see that the same pattern is starting again. Of course, these are the people who put more weight on the exit polling last year than on the actual vote count.

The MSM continues to promote people like Sheehan, Wilson, the Jersey Girls as the "mainstream". And each time they do more and more Americans are turned off by what they see. I'm at the point where if I see something in the MSM, I assume the exact opposite is true.

You would think at some point that liberals would look at the rapidly declining viewership of the big 3 and major drops in newspaparer circulation and realize that something's up.

Of course, I wish some Republicans would too and stop being so scared of the NYT.

But I honestly don't think liberals will ever wake up to reality. And they will continue to shrink further and further into permanent minority status.

Phidipides, welcome back. Good to hear something from you.

Dear David and J. West,
Your comments are not welcome here, you know that. I of course, enjoy seeing something of substance, but we can't reasonably believe that we are going to change these folks, can we?

Actually, I see some head scratching and some thought provoking from many on this list, but for the most part, there are too many of those that you see in those silly marches.

When my wife and I went to NYC for the RNC. We decided to leave Madison Square Garden and walk to times square. We had to leave behind the gates and fences that protected us from these heinous people.

Well true to form, many of this group followed us down the street, screaming at us, calling us names, accusing us of having SUV's in our garage. My wife got very, very angry, and I just kept telling her to be cool.

Eventually we both got the hang of it, and began laughing at them, just laughing. They didn't know how to handle it at all.

But the highlight of the night was when I met this young man, standing on the side of the street, taking the verbal abuse with a huge smile on his face, and he was holding up a handmade sign which read.....

"War has never Solved Anything!" in large print. . . .and then in fine print underneath it said, "Except for ending slavery, facism, communism, and Nazism!"

So, David and J.West- Keep making those homemade signs, and smiling at these guys and gals, because it DRIVES THEM CRAZY. And if they won't face the truth, then we can just enjoy their paranoia.

"If it bleeds it leads

Sorry, that's Donald Rumsfeld's favorite saying. "

So???? It's absolutely true.

Oh, and then there was the liberals that were in my Home Town when Bush came to visit.

They were there, dressed as usual in their usual ragged clothes, nose piercings, tatoos, punked up hair.

There were screaming and shouting about the illegal war we were fighting and how we needed to get out of . . . .

AFGANISTAN. Yep, this was before Iraq. They were calling this war in Afganistan ILLEGAL.

Michael Moore supports that position too.
And Cindy Sheehan, like Moore, calls the insurgents, you know the one killing innocent women and children, FREEDOM FIGHTERS and MINUTEMEN.

Yep, you liberals can be proud of what your party represents.

Say, when is Jane Fonda going to go to Iraq and strap a suicide Bomber's Vest on to be photographed?

Carpediem,

Don't worry. They don't bother me. If I didn't have a thick skin I wouldn't come here.

Besides, I'd rather come here than go to a right wing blog anyday. It's much more fun stirring things up a bit.

You mentioned the protestors at the RNC last year. One of the most dispicable things I've seen from liberals is the protest and tauntings of soldiers at Walter Reed Hospital.

A side benefit of coming here is that it motivates me to action to make sure these people STAY in the minority.

The boys decided to come out tonight and play. They have been hiding because they didn't want to have to defend their leeder with recent events. Have fun kids.

"You mentioned the protestors at the RNC last year. One of the most dispicable things I've seen from liberals is the protest and tauntings of soldiers at Walter Reed Hospital."

David, link please.

"Besides, I'd rather come here than go to a right wing blog anyday. It's much more fun stirring things up a bit."

David, don't flatter yourself. I will say that "stirring things up a bit" is exactly what your Party does best, and not much more.

David,

Re: Your journey to the left's hidden lairs,

Actually I try to pick up Air America whenever I can, but they can't afford to have power to get beyound five miles from their tower.

So when I pick them up on XM radio I enjoy listening to their rants. Its spin, spin, spin, nothing based upon facts, just spin.

Of Course our own radio jocks go into the spin zone on many occaisions too. But the difference is the vitrolic hatred that just pours from each one of their announcers day in and day out. Hate, hate, hate, hate.

Oh, and the other main difference, is that the listening audience has the capacity to reason and to understand, which means, that to have a true listener base, which makes you money, you must pass the test of discriminating listeners.

This is something that Air America can't do. Because all they have his hate and no substance. Sort of like the platform for the entire Democratic party.....

John Kerry Here, Reporting for duty....
The duty to degrade, falsely accuse our soldiers, and give aid and comfort to the enemy.

"And Cindy Sheehan, like Moore, calls the insurgents, you know the one killing innocent women and children, FREEDOM FIGHTERS and MINUTEMEN."

Let's see, how many Iraqi women/men/children have we killed to date. 30,000? Oh, I forgot. That's okay because we are spreading "freedom."

Minutemen? LOLLOLLOL

OK, Crappy and the Like,

I have done my very best to be civil and tolerant. I have done my very best to attempt to have honest debate. I have done my very best to attempt to understand you and where you are coming from.

Enough is Enough!

You have been slinging insults, attacks, generalizations and hatred. I have heard nothing from the lot of you except how much liberals hate. What a bunch of hypocritical bullshit.

You come here to tell us how evil we are. How scummy and ratty tatty.

My God. Yes, I don't believe in killing and I don't believe in war. What an evil person I am.

I believe in the rule of law. Your leedur broke the Supreme Law of Aggression. International law set up after Hitler invaded Europe. It was set up in an attempt to stop Facism.

You come here to defend him and to insult us. No other reason.

I have an extremely open mind and an extreme tolerance for diverse groups of people. I do not have tolerance for vicious, unwarranted attacks.

Why not talk facts?

This thread is about how, because the Bush administration supports big business and has rolled back worker protection laws, this tragedy had an opportunity to happen. If a president actually supported workers and worker protection and supported laws that would enforce that, then perhaps this could have been prevented.

Take your generalizations and your need to attempt to tell me how I am and stuff them up your ignorant Facist assholes.

Judith,

re: protests at Walter Reed? Just google it. Did you want to know so that you could get your sign ready?

Washington (CNSNews.com) - The Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C., the current home of hundreds of wounded veterans from the war in Iraq, has been the target of weekly anti-war demonstrations since March. The protesters hold signs that read "Maimed for a Lie" and "Enlist here to die for Halliburton."

The anti-war demonstrators, who obtain their protest permits from the Washington, D.C., police department, position themselves directly in front of the main entrance to the Army Medical Center, which is located in northwest D.C., about five miles from the White House.

Among the props used by the protesters are mock caskets, lined up on the sidewalk to represent the death toll in Iraq.

Code Pink Women for Peace, one of the groups backing anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan's vigil outside President Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas, organizes the protests at Walter Reed as well.

Hey, crappy, cnsnews.com doesn't open. Do you have a link for it, and who the hell is cnsnews anyhow? Never heard of them.

Dear Anjha

You know calling people stinking #$sholes is what we call "fighting words" in the legal community.

You say you are against war, but don't you directly encourage it (violent behavior)by using such fighting words in such a very, small and insignificant blog?

Take a chill pill, pierce another body part, do another mantra, whatever it takes to get you beyond this sanctimonious rant.

Again, except for slavery, facism, nazism, and communism, War has never solved anything.

"In the legal community..." crybaby crappy - the fake lawyer shit again?

I don't know who cnsnews is. I just googled it.

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=%5CSpecialReports%5Carchive%5C200508%5CSPE20050825a.html

or better yet, try the liberal rag washington post

Carpediem,

Thanks for the backup. I started to look it up but figured Judith would just claim any link I mentioned is "right" wing, so why bother?

BYW Judith, I haven't been "hiding" (neither hs Carpediem). We've both been here several times this week. You can't even get that right. Geez.

And I've been backing up my views with FACTS, not FANTASY. There is a diference.

Ah, that one opened. It's a Talon news wannabe. Again, I'll reserve judgement when I see the real story.

And David, I hope you're using a condom. u.jest sleeps around.

The string of preventable disasters from 9/11 to the Katrina flooding to the mining tragedy share one common thread: They are a result of the deadly failures of Repiglican moral and political philosophy. A philosophy that places militarism and empire over peace and freedom; negligence and corruption over prevention and opportunity; and greed over safety and protection.

The Repiglican culture of hate, betrayal, corruption have weakened this nation beyond recognition. Led by their liar-in-chief, Generalissimo Bush, his sidekick Torcamada Gonzales, and the murderous FrankenCheney, the Repiglicans have set this nation on a slippery slope towards totalitarianism.

Repiglican acceptance or denial of the truth is irrelevant; they're the ones on watch. Ownership of these disasters, including the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq, rightly belongs to them.

fafnir,

Gosh, you sure told us!

I would respond but it would be a waste of time.

Besides, I don't think your mind is anywhere close to being able to handle the truth. It would probably implode.

Oh, and then there was the liberals that were in my Home Town when Bush came to visit.

They were there, dressed as usual in their usual ragged clothes, nose piercings, tatoos, punked up hair. Posted by Crappy
*********************
But I honestly don't think liberals will ever wake up to reality. And they will continue to shrink further and further into permanent minority status. Posted by id
*******************
Get a spine transplant, grow some balls, learn some self sufficiency and quit whining.
Posted by justqwest-ingreality
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They live for anything that is negative that might help reinforce their hatred for anything that is Republican or Bush. Posted by Crappy
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No, Crappy, the above are 'fightin' words.

But then I'm thinking, I'll bet money that the press had a hand in it as well, but to Miles and Soledad, it was just a great tragedy to spend the whole morning on.
Sorry Duckman GR, they probably still doing at it right now, therefore does not have to deal with the corruption in Washington. It is sad what happen at the mine and my though goes to their families but Bush is praying, while many people were killed today in his illegal war! Or how many money he got from Abramoff? Did he really have to get more money, flying at our expenses, when he knew the election would be fixed?
From the Guardian,UK “-President Bush, $6,000 from Abramoff, his wife and the Saginaw Chippewa Indian Tribe of Michigan for the Bush-Cheney 2004 re-election campaign is being donated to the American Heart Association. Abramoff raised at least $100,000 for the campaign.

What all USA Medias does not say

Today on Democracy Now, Amy was talking about Forced Abortions & Sweatshops: A Look at Jack Abramoff's Ties to the South Pacific Island of Saipan & How Tom DeLay Became An Advocate for Sweatshop Factory Owners
Here is the all, plus her interview with Brian Ross who did an ABC’s 20/20 March 13, 1998 about it. Delay must have gotten more money that he is admitting to.

Abramoff/Delay

About another subject, chimp,I heard this week, will not reconstruct Iraq but will put it into the World Bank! Remember the book about the confession of a hit man? About how the world Bank have force countries to be given money first, than force them to sell their intra-structures, you know like water, electricity, gas, ……..and oil. American and English co has been waiting. I always knew that will happen with Wolfowitz was put there for a reason.
They were meeting in London when the subway attacks happen.
I saw somewhere that the amount of our first Gulf war soldiers, are dying in high numbers from cancer? Children in Iraq are born from birth defect at an alarming rate, No eyes and worst abnormality. All from DU bombs exposure.
How anyone could pray for 11 while killing more everyday? He thing GOD talk to him!

Gfd: Which is it?
Spiral board system? ? Vessel? The shaking vessel 剪 ardently the desk
Spiral disc heat interchanger shock absorber alligator shears

sorry last was mine

u. puke, David and carpe, Can we get back to the thread?
Your reasoning to support an adiministration who supports reduction in safety boggles the mind.
I don't support liberals who protest in front of a hospital that is designated for closing. I support our wounded soldiers inside who have been injured because of a mission that is misguided and has no purpose but to support the bu$h cabal.
You guys live for your dollar above all else, so pray to it tonight. I hope you can keep your jobs, stay healthy and not ever have to worry about a pension to take care of you. If only we could all be so lucky.
Peace.
Go USC.

Well Steve, I stupidly went through the entire comment section and feel the need to shower after reading the mostly ridiculous comments from our friends on the right.

Anyway, one of the great things about the law is you can pretty much expect that ICG is going to get whacked pretty good out of this situation, so some amount of justice will be achieved. Regardless of whether they get sued into oblivion via wrongful death suits, their insurance rates will force them to take appropriate steps. Too bad it's too late for the miners.

I haven't finished reading this thread -- but I have to say hey to Phidip. So good to see you again. Please stay :)

Dear Anjha,

There are such things as fighting words. Perhaps I was not particularly thorough in my explanation.

My basic reasoning is that you peaceniks, you pinkos, you that declare your disdain for all war, who would rather be red, then dead, you fail to recognize that force is sometimes a necessary result of evil.

Actually, more wars were required because of the fact that good men did nothing.

Neville Chamberlain. . .peace in our time. . .WWII

Pol Pot, killed millions while we stood above the fray as if we were King Herod.

Bill Clinton who loated the military sat on his hands wincing about being a true leader while tens of thousands died in Rwanda.

Some things are worth fighting for, but for those that are above the fray, I would suggest that your hypocritical comments that encourages violence is a true sign of your character. You can't have it both ways, you either are truely opposed to war, and therefore all violence, or you are a hypocrit.

weinerdog -- I'm with you -- reading this thread was fushee stinky. And I think you are right regarding lawsuits and insurance. Any "investigation" by this admin will be weak and cursory. I truly feel for the families.

Carpe Diem, we've already talked about your credibility problem around here, but getting back to this thread, what do you find acceptable with a tripling in safety violations in 2005 for some of the same things that caused this tragedy?

Same question to David and J. West: does a mine owner who presides over a tripling of their safety violations deserve something more than a slap on the wrist and being allowed to stay open?

And yes, we are having this debate because innocent people died yesterday because the mine owner and the federal government didn't do their jobs. If this had happened under a Democratic administration, Republicans would be screaming, and rightly so, about the failures of that administration.

So, if it makes you three feel better by blasting liberals for holding Bush and Elaine Chao accountable for what in essence is negligence, knock yourselves out. You would be doing the same thing if the shoe was on the other foot, but the question remains. Why is it acceptable for the mine owner and the federal government to get a pass here?

Carpediem, you are not being very fair with your broad brush. What happened with Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge is not so simple as you state. While the US perhaps stood above the fray as if we were King Herod, the Vietnamese made an effort -- partly in the interest of nationalism but also because no other international power would do anything -- to stop them. Being that the US still hated the Vietnamese, it pressured the Indonesians to voice its position. In doing so, the US indirectly supported the Khmer Rouge. I'm not going to address your other points in this thread because none of them are on topic.

You do make a somewhat demented chorus (don't get your feelings hurt) with the other two. You all ran amok today. I'm sure you all had a lot of fun and many belly laughs. I guess you don't know that j.west gave his word to stop posting on this blog, and by doing so has broken his word. May not mean much to you, but that's why he has no credibility here.

Please try to stay on topic in the future, k?

It's just this simple: If you want safe workplaces, you vote for Democrats.

Texas and Oklahoma had grass fires.

What a fucking idiot. Hundred and hundreds of people burned out of their homes. Hundreds of thousands of acres burned. Fire fighters pushed to the limit. Equipment breaking down. State, county and local budgets busted and equipment so trashed it's becoming unuseable. You are really empathetic to others needs. I bet you're a heller on women, small kids and tards.

And where is Bushco? It couldn't be like their younger days when they were in Matamoros, Mexico punching whores in the face? Or in gay reorientation training? No, those days are over. Things are fine in neo-con land. $82 billion for Iraq, $1 trillion (that $1 dollar past $999 billion, $999 million, $999 thousand $999 dollars for you neo-con mental midgets) in corporate welfare, 12 mine deaths, and shit for anyone who is not wealthy. Ain't you a treat! I bet your mom thinks feeding you Red Hots and Coca Cola for breakfast worked out just fine.

Hi Judith. My long absence started after the last TLC national convention. You'll remember that the waiter brought me that Corona with a salted glass and lime and said it was normal for some Coronas to be really fizzy and have a bitter taste. The last I remember you were doing that dead-on impersonation you do of Cheney. Then there is a really fuzzy memory of iamcoyote spanking Dubya, and suddenly it all goes blank. I think I had a good time...until I woke up being interrogated by Chilean Mercs. Damn, this war on terror is something! I'm glad they are cutting student aid. It'll force lots of poor intelligent kids to join the military. I guess trolling for the dropouts hasn't worked too well.

Same question to David and J. West: does a mine owner who presides over a tripling of their safety violations deserve something more than a slap on the wrist and being allowed to stay open?

I can answer that. Hell yes! Not only do they deserve to stay open, they deserve a Medal of Freedom like Tenet, Bremer and Franks. The owners have provided fresh blood to the great neo-con diety -corporate profit through blood sacrifice of the unwilling. Being an unwilling death is best. The neo-con Gods really like that shit.

Again, going back to the original post.

Liars figure and figures lie.

The media reports raw facts, but perhaps rather than just taking these facts as all being relevant we ask merely that you allow the bodies of these men be buried, before you dance on thier graves screaming about how Bush did it.

Just like the protestors at Walter Reed, Liberals have no shame as to what extent they will go through for political gain.

Perhaps the mine owner truely did violate substantive safety issues, or maybe he didn't. Time will tell.

I know from my past history in the government, before becomeing a psuedo-lawyer, I dealt with many "safety regulations". The comparitive weight of say, having a main gas line remain exposed to tampering, might be given the same "weighted" score as having the workers fail to initial thier timesheets. (Look at your local resturants, I sued a Deli for giving my client Hepititus, two employees had it, and there was testimony that they routinely did not wash their hands, and we discovered the toliet brush over one of the work stations. Mind you, their health scores were relatively good, always in the 90's. But not washing your hands was given the same score as having a temperature gauge on the freezer defective. My point is that not all violations were necessarily "substantive" but all were VIOLATIONS)

I'm not suggesting this is what occurred, but that the FACTS will come out eventually.

The reason this thread disentegrated into what it became was because of the underlying motivation for the webmaster to create this hate filled thread by claiming Bush guilty before the bodies had even gotten cold. This evidences our opinions, that Liberals seemingly enjoy anything, that means anything, including the loosing the lives of good men, if it provides them political gain.

Thats shameful, and thats why and how this thread went awry. Marching at hospitals for soldiers, while claiming we support the troops at the same time, screaming for bush's head on safety violations over these horrid event, while the families are still greiving.

We mock you for your lack of shame. Plan and Simple.

Your pathetic carpe. Fact: The mine had loads of safety violations. Fact: The bu$h administration's policies help the owners of mines. Fact: The owners continued to operate the mine. Fact: This put the workers in danger. Fact: The owners did not fix the existing violations. Fact: Workers died.

It's pretty fucking simple!

May you politely inhale loads of CO2 and CH4. Just enough to get sick and tell us what it's like. I'm convinced, you would not learn any other way.
Given your support of the current administration's policies; I'm sure we liberals will be doing the same in the not too distant future.

And enough about the protesters outside of Walter Reed Hospital. Have you ever been to a Veterans Hospital? Then volunteer!

J.west, what brings you back?

"And enough about the protesters outside of Walter Reed Hospital. Have you ever been to a Veterans Hospital? Then volunteer!"

So typically liberal. You can't deal with the fact that some of your own are taunting wounded soldiers so you try and turn int around.

I don't have to volunteer to know that it is dispicable to hold signs like "Maimed for a lie" as soldiers who have paid the price pass by.

Utterly shameful (you and the protestors).

Yup David, no better than the person who said this at a militaray hospital filled with injured American troops "As you can probably see I was injured myself, not here at the hospital but in combat with a cedar," Bush quipped. "I eventually won."

What a callous, insensitive SOB(Son of Babs)comparing the brush clearing scratch on his forehead to actual combat where these troops lost limbs or more.

J.west, what brings you back?

I'm guessing a shameful propensity to forget one's promises, baiting people, and getting off on it.

But I'm just guessing here.

What about the facts David? All of you get called on them and divert the subject, bob and weave, to suit your delight.

Also, David, you are calling me, a Disabled Veteran, "utterly shameful". How narrow and hypocritical of you to talk shit, before you know the facts! "So typically" conservative!

Liberals have no shame as to what extent they will go through for political gain

I'll take Tom DeLay for $100, Alex.

What neo-con whore removed 54,000 legally registered voters from polling lists?

Who is Katherine Harris, Alex?

Correct!

Alex, I'll take DeLay for $200.

What Gay whore received a White House press pass and took numerous flights on Air Force One?

Who is Jeff Guckert, Alex?

Yes!

Delay for $300, Alex.

What company lobbied the Republican administration to provide voting machines without a paper trail and no accountability for changes to the database.

Who is Diebold, Alex?

Correct! Choose again.

DeLay for $400, Alex.

Who had the lowest score on the Air Force flight exam of any pilot ever allowed into Air Force flight school?

Who is the Chimporer, Alex?

Correct!

Delay for $500, Alex.

And that completes the category. Who would whore their children in a Tijuana donkey show if it made them a profit?

Who would be neo-cons, Alex?

Indeed!

I'll take Mine Safety for $100, Alex.

What adminsitration reduced MHSA employees by 170, but increased mine union investigators by 48 in an effort to break the mine unions, often the only group attempting to protect mine workers?

Who would be the current administration, Alex?

Correct!

I'll take Administration Whores for $200, Alex.

Who put stains on little blue dresses?

Who would be Clinton, Alex?

No...Beep Beep Beep

Cedric.

Who IS Clinton, Alex?

No...Beep Beep Beep

Sarah.

Who was President Clinton, Alex?

No! It's plural. The correct answer is George Bush. He put stains on every Americans little blue dress.

That is by far, the most humorous post I've ever read hear at TLC!! What a classic!!!!

Duke,

Why the comeback?

It’s hard to sit idly by and watch facts be twisted into unjust attacks, to see human tragedy manipulated in hopes of scoring political points and to witness distortion for the purpose of validating one’s own warped worldview.

By challenging Steve’s initial version of the facts (which are still misrepresented) and bringing some perspective to the situation, those with left leaning tendencies but not afflicted with full blown BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome) can use their remaining logic to obtain a more realistic outlook on events.

TLC is greatly improved by the quality of its non-abusive and critical thinking trolls.

TLC is greatly improved by the quality of its non-abusive and critical thinking trolls.

Sadly, we're still waiting for them.

but that the FACTS will come out eventually.

lmao, IOW:

"The current facts don't agree with my side of the argument, so let's just wait until there is more info so I can more easily spin the story for my side."

Thanks Carpe, it is also good to know that you sue people for a living. That I find funny as hell... though I doubt you understand why.

That is by far, the most humorous post I've ever read hear at TLC!! What a classic!!!!

Posted by bbtb at January 5, 2006 08:14 AM ,/i>

Yes!!! I had a good laugh reading that - thanks! That's an award winner!!!

I enjoy reading the posts and comments at TLC - even the trolls are entertaining!

whichever dumbass thinks I can't "support the troops" by wanting to bring them home and prevent their injury or death in this illegal war, I say "kiss my ass, motherfucker!" Your "support" is killing them, but then I gather that's the Republican way.

Has anyone checked to see if there were sales of the company's stock during the hours that the mistaken information was in the media?

The ten most dangerous jobs in America.

I didn't see anything on it during the 3 hour period, but it did fall the next day.
That's a question for muckdog.

Well, I spent a good hour scouring the archives, but here is the bet J.West had with Goose1:

J.west So Pat Tillman Lied about himself? They based it on his writings along with what his mom and Other in his troop said.

OT, I will make you a bet. If joe or val wilson Are charged with a crime. I won't post here any more. If Any one in the Bush Admin is charged with a crime you don't post here any more. If no one is Charge then nothing changes. What do you say?
Posted by Goose1 at October 7, 2005 11:47 AM

Goose,

I’m crushed to think you would take a chance on losing my special talent of bringing a little conservative light into this dark tunnel of liberalism, but if you insist, it’s a bet.
Posted by j.west at October 7, 2005 11:59 AM

(Emphasis mine)

Here's the link, if you fancy.

Duke,

That hurts. But I guess there is no arguing with the post you found.

I thought there was an additional post clarifying the conditions along with someone else getting in on the deal.

If you want to use your research skills, try to find it.... but lacking any evidence to the contrary, I'll sign off.

Gee Wouldn't you think if ujest was so positive of the "facts" that would prove he was right regarding the bet, he'd use his own research skills to do it instead of asking Duke to do it? Never mind, just asked and answered my own question.

Support the Miners. Maybe David toelicker and West will print up some bumperstickers. After all the miners are heroic martyrs to the cause of unregulated,"unimpeded" markets" and "wealth creation" - which,like Divine Providence,will eventually lead us all to the golden light. If a few eggs get broken to make that omelet - as in the noble project of regime change, well..lets be serious, how many miners(or soldiers) read The National Review? But thank goodness theyre clearing the way for the Davids and Wests.

Phidipides, yeah it was right after TLC Convention. Remember, J. West was there with Cindy Sheehan? Boy, was he all over her. If memory serves me well, I think my impression was of Condi. Remember the stellito heels? The best part of the night was when you kicked David's ass and he left the party humiliated. Anyway, it is great to have you back. I missed your postings.

"That hurts. But I guess there is no arguing with the post you found."

J.West,

I've always thought of myself as something of a referee in many cases. Nothing personal.

For what it's worth, you're my favorite troll, but principles are principles, and I demand they be lived up to.

It is interesting to see this huge debate (some flames?) on this topic in this forum. While the issue of the mine's safety is a serious issue, in my blog entry

http://imran.com/media/blog/2006/01/mining-mine-tragedy-turning-grief-into.html

I also touch on another issue I heard someone raise... suing someone for the wrong information of everyone surviving that initially came out. I would love to hear your comments on that too. Keep up the posts and comments here!

regards

Imran