Gonzales is also dismissing calls for a special prosecutor to probe the illegal NSA wiretaps. Shocker.

Desperation is clearly evident at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, and despseration leads to desperate acts. With their backs to the wall, there is no lowness that they won't utilize.

I've been researching the Iran situation, and the world is so concerned that King George wants to join the Truman Atomic Club so badly that they are taking some extraordinary steps. The Saudis, for example, are attempting to mediate with both the Iranians and the Syrians in an attempt to defuse the situation, even though the Saudis do not support either country's position.

It's clear that they think there has been enough war in their region and are doing what they can to prevent any more. If they are successful, this only leaves North or South America for the neo-conmen to take out their hostilities - and I think I can tell you which choice would be easier for Bu$hCo to achieve on short notice!

Why anyone would believe anything this administration says is beyond me. Really, the press should just start laughing at these clowns.

"Really, the press should just start laughing at these clowns."

No Ga6th, they should just start doing their Cheneying JOBS and counter transparent lies with facts! The press is given special dispensation because they are supposed act as "the memory of the public", who are SUPPOSED to be in charge. Their job is to provide a context for the lies of the lying liars at the podium.

If the asslickers in the "press" are uncomfortable speaking truth to power, they deserve neither special protections nor a paycheck. Unfortunately, their paychecks are coming from greedy billionaires and their wannabes. From their perspective, the "reporters" are doing their jobs very well indeed.

i wouldn't believe a single god damned word that comes out of the mouth of anyoneone in this administration..they have taken lying to a new level..

ilegal wiretaps against american citizens..bush broke the law

lied to the country about reasons for war..

both of the above are impeachable

republican house scandal..biggest ever

tom delay under indictment

scooter libbey under indictment

karl rove under investigation

bill frist under investigation

administration lies to the american people about cost of drug olan

iraq war

i sure am glad the fraud in the white house changed the tone in washington

really makes ya wonder doesn't it just what kind of a person supports these people

time to put our heels on their throats and press down

It never ceases to amaze me how unrelenting they are in their willingness to lie. As one of the non-saved, I confess not to have any clue what a "God-fearing Christian" is if these folks qualify.

They have no choice but to lie. And will become more and more dangerous as they are boxed in by their own lies. These are not sane people.

Excuse my ignorance, but isn't a warrantless physical search a violation of the Constitution unless there are some specific conditions present (like arrest, automobile, etc.)? And isn't a warrantless physical search generally more egregious and intrusive than a warrantless wire search? If so, why is one okay for a President to authorize, and the other isn't? Shouldn't the Constitution, which is the highest law in the land, trump FISA? Any lawyers out there who can clarify this?

If so, why is one okay for a President to authorize, and the other isn't?

They are both now covered under FISA. FISA initially dealt with wire taps. It was modified in 1995 to also cover physical searches. The search of Aldrich Ames house was conducted before the changes. What AAG Gorelick basically said to Congress was "That's the deal. There's no statute that bars warrantless physical searches when national security is concerned. If you want to change it go ahead. We'll support it." And they did.

The Bush administration is breaking the law. And that's why they are obfuscating the issue by falsely claiming Clinton did it too and lying to the American public. Not only did Clinton not do what they are doing his administration was active in extending FISA coverage beyond electronic surveillance to include physical searches too.

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales is telling bald faced lies to the American public. If he doesn't know he's lying then the only alternative is that he is grossly incompetent.

I just looked at the link for Jamie Gorelick's testimony and was greeted by Pat Robertson's creepy mug. What I want to know is whether the 700 Club and CBN are non profits - I looked at their website and it appears that CBN is included in CFC workplace giving programs, so it must be a 501(c)(3). How in the hell does Robertson get away with speaking out for Bush and against every single Democratic candidate without ever having his non-profit status challenged?

Pat Robertson, James Dobson, Tony Perkins, and the rest of their ilk ought to be crucified live on national TV. The assholes think they are Jesus...let's test their theory.

Thanks snark, fabulous summary.

Even a member of the press could understand it!

It's a shame they wouldn't be permitted to inform the public about the actual truth of the matter, and tell them that Abu & Co are literally barefaced liars.

I agree with everything you are saying about this issue, but I do not understand why you continue to refer to the Attorney General as "Abu Gonzales". "Abu", from the Arabic language, means "father of", and is used to honor someone, by nothing that a man is a father, with the idea that being a father is a great thing all by itself. So Abu Gonzales translates as "father of Gonzales", which he probably is, but is not in any way revealing about him. What's the story behind this?

I won't speak for Steve IceGuy (as he is more than capable of doing it himself), but my interpretation of the "Abu" reference has to do with Abu Ghraib and Gonzales' role he played in it. I think it was Gonzales as WH attorney who wrote that "torture was quaint" or something and he provided the legal analysis to justify the use of torture that went on in places such as Abu Ghraib. ....but I am losing my memory here on it..so I'm not definite. So many outrageous things to keep track of these days, so few of my own brain cells left to do it it seems.

Yep, it's a reference to Abu Ghraib, and it's been pointed out what it really means. It is intended to remind people of the horrors that are still going on in the prison, and who justified allowing them to continue. Already known as the "torture guy," Abu Gonzales is a mnemonic device for the masses. Luckily, Joe Sixpack doesn't know what Abu really means, so it's effective.

Here's the link to Gorelik's comments that Gonzalez may have been referring to. http://thinkprogress.org/gorelick-testimony/
These are the closing comments of that statement:

"As I stated earlier, we believe that existing directives that regulate the basis for seeking foreign intelligence search authority and the procedures to be followed satisfy all Constitutional requirements. Nevertheless, I reiterate the Administration’s willingness to support appropriate legislation that does not restrict the President’s ability to collect foreign intelligence necessary for the national security. We need to strike a balance that sacrifices neither our security nor our civil liberties.

If we can achieve such a balance — and I believe we can if we use the basic provisions of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act — we can accomplish a number of things. First, we will reaffirm our commitment to democratic control of intelligence functions. Second, by mirroring the FISA process including the involvement a neutral judicial official, we will remove any doubt from the minds of reasonable persons concerning the legality of these searches. And finally, we will also provide additional assurances to the patriotic individuals who serve this country in intelligence positions that their activities are proper and necessary."

The way I read this, she is saying (and says it earlier in her statement) that the President has inherent authority to order searches (be they physical or by wiretap) in cases involving national security, and she points out in her statement that this authority has been construed to extend to the Attorney General. However, she says that Clinton is willing to support legislation in this area "that does not restrict the President’s ability to collect foreign intelligence necessary for the national security." This is the key phrase. The media refers to NSA's activity as "domestic spying," yet the activity allegedly involves calls placed from or to foreign countries, where one of the conversants is in the U.S. Are such calls "foreign intelligence?" If so, Clinton would have left himself a very big loophole in mouthing his support of the earlier version of FISA. In any event, even though Clinton might have claimed support for the law (new or old), he could always fall back on the "inherent authority" claim should there be a dispute about his later actions. And that appears to be the same thing Bush is doing. This appears to come down to a question of separation of powers. The President vs. Congress. Ironically, the courts (the branch of government that Bush apparently overstepped in doing the "spying") will ultimately have to decide the issue.

Why do you people put so much stock in the FISA when it virtually never refuses the White House its approval of these warrants? What check or authority do you imagine is being exercised in this regard? It's laughable. You want to be able to say, as Gore did, that the President is breaking the law, but it's a demonstrably meaningless law. By the fucking numbers it's meaningless!

Who are you morons?

Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!
oh man that was good.....

So defending your selves from croaking toadies, has beens, shrill harpies, and alcohol soaked despots (and oldsmobile using killers) is now what passes for desparation.

Here's desparation for you...after he couldn't hide the true nature of his beloved Owls' Teddy boy Kennedy will now drop is membership as soon as possible! Not defend it, not explain it, but drop it as if it never happened.

Why do you people put so much stock in the FISA when it virtually never refuses the White House its approval of these warrants?

Because.It's.The.Law.

And if it's not such a big deal to get the warrants, why didn't Bush just get them? Because he, like Tom "I am the federal government" DeLay, thinks he is above the law. But.He's.Not.

Toby, the reason fisa exists is to make sure that Bush isn't wiretapping innocent americans. Obviously he has been tapping innocent americans according to the FBI.

Uh, the moron is you Toby. Nobody around here was making the absolutely stupid claims you have been making.

Just because you have been repeated duped by Jr, well, don't blame us. Take responsiblity. I know it's a foreign thing to you but you should try it.

Why do you continue to embarrass yourself? LOL

Lie and smear, lie and smear. That is all they know how to do well = this is verging on pure evil

Ann, can you help me think of some laws that this Government ignores or undermines every day of the week? Start with immigration.

Which affects you more on a daily basis: uncontrollable illegal immigration or some America-hating terrorist sympathizer getting spied on without the "proper" legal oversight?

You know, why did the Republicans get so tizzed out about Clinton lying about a blow job? Men lie about blow jobs all the time. What's the big fat deal? Not like anyone got hurt or killed because of the blow job or the lie.

But the government, spying without a warrant, that's a daily assault on my civil liberties. Because they aren't just spying on terrorists - you know that's a flat out lie.

As for illegal immigration, not such a problem for me. Mostly the immigration issue is just racism dressed up to look like concern for national security. The 9/11 hijackers didn't come into this country through Mexico - they came in legally. If anyone cared about the jobs that Mexicans are taking in this country, we'd be more concerned about the jobs that are being outsourced to Asia - but we're not. And before you go into how much it costs me in tax dollars, please remember how much Ken Starr spent on that totally inconsequential blow job.

Man, Toby you are such a coward! The FBI said that these people were innocent but I know that in cowardly tobyland anyone who disagrees with your Stalin is a terroist sympathizer. You are absolutely pathetic.

I'm sorry that you need a daddy to tell you what to do and watch out for you. Bush is a bad daddy though. Bad daddies do things like break the law.

Eh, what you want to be he didn't tap Bandars phone? Of course not, he was too busy kissing his butt. That's the problem with people like you. Words are everything but actions mean nothing. Keep up your lovin' feelings for daddy bush and step daddy bandar. I'm sure you believe that they will lead you down the right road. LOL!

Ga6thDem:

Toby, the reason fisa exists is to make sure that Bush isn't wiretapping innocent americans.

What are you doing about credit reporting agencies that quantify, grade, and parcel out your entire financial life? What are you doing about internet and wireless companies that use and sell your information without your consent? Why are there video cameras in all the stores and institutions we visit? Do you have some right to not be monitored and recorded? Get serious. All our asses are owned 24-7 by people with no accountability and all mercenary interest. If our Government is sifting through the internet and telephone traffic in this country to suss out some Islamofascist murderers, I applaud it. I wish they didn't have to sift so much through my porno surfing and political commentary and online banking activity, but what the hell? I'm not going to stop what I do and I'm not going to fear it. I'm going to live my little life and take what little pleasures there are and keep on smiling. If the G wants to question me, let them. I'm no Muslim murderer. I'm no threat to my country.

But if the day comes that they say I am, then I will go to eleven. You can fetishize these pathetic little hypothetical losses of your liberty til the crack of doom, but don't expect me to read the book.

Ann:

But the government, spying without a warrant, that's a daily assault on my civil liberties.

Gibberish. You haven't lost a single liberty because of the War against Islamofascism. Admit it.

toby: I wish they didn't have to sift so much through my porno surfing and political commentary and online banking activity, but what the hell? uhh, okay

Toby,
You moron. I can find out who requests my credit reports. I get a free copy of it and it lists all people who have requested it.

Watch out with that porno. The fundamentalists who control the gov. will send you to the brig on that one.

It's not the same. You are making a fallacious argument. I choose to go into a store knowing that I will be video taped. If none of this is such a big deal, then why doesn't Jr. tell us who he wiretapped? He won't tell because he know he broke the law. The spinning and the apologia is very, very, telling.

Obviously, you're a coward who's willing to give up your freedom for some sort of false security. Now I know why you have so arduously supported Bush. You are afraid. You are a coward.

I happen to think that America is better than you do. I think we DON'T have to give up our liberties to win. Good grief, we should have just let Hitler invade, according to you because we would have been safer.

Smear and fear. It's all you know. You guys are so sad. I'm glad, though, that people like you are only 1/3 of the country.

...she says that Clinton is willing to support legislation in this area "that does not restrict the President’s ability to collect foreign intelligence necessary for the national security." This is the key phrase. The media refers to NSA's activity as "domestic spying," yet the activity allegedly involves calls placed from or to foreign countries, where one of the conversants is in the U.S. Are such calls "foreign intelligence?"

Clinton issued Executive Order 12949 sometime after Gorelicks testimony which dealt with physical searches. And remember, Gorelick's testimony dealt with pysical searches, not electronic surveillance. Clintons EO authorized the execution of physical searches without a search warrant according to the guidelines established by FISA. This was after Congress modified FISA to cover physical searches also. What Clintons EO says is that administration officials involved in making national security decisions are authorized to order the execution of warrantless physical searches as long as, repeat as long as, they conform to the specifics of FISA. Specifically, Section 302(a)(1) of FISA. What does that section say? It says that the AG can order warrantless searches if he certifies to the FISA authorities that the searches will not invovle the affairs of American persons. No American persons. Foreign nationals only for warrantless searches.

So the entire CLinton did it too canard is a complete fabrication intended only to distract from what Bush actually authorized.

To answer your question. According to FISA those calls may constitute foreign intelligence but they are most certainly not exempt from the FISA requirements to obtain a warrant via the FISA courts. Only in circumstances where the AG certifies that no AMerican persons are involved can a warrant be dispensed with.

Gibberish. You haven't lost a single liberty because of the War against Islamofascism. Admit it.

Toby, fuck off. I don't know if they've been spying on me, but they could be and that's the problem.

Perhaps you missed the story in the NYTimes today about the thousands of calls and tons of data that the government has gathered that is completely useless.

Perhaps you read about Jose Padilla, an American citizen who was held without being charged with a single crime for three years. Of course, when he was charged it had nothing to do with the stated reasons for imprisoning him in the first place. If even one American loses a single civil liberty, we all lose.

Toby,

Isn't American Idol on tonight?

Ann:

I don't know if they've been spying on me, but they could be and that's the problem.

They "could" be? My! Sounds like you've got grounds for a lawsuit. Be sure to call the ACLUniks in the morning. Maybe you can get in on the class action.

Jesus!

Hey, Steve, you may want to save Toby's last comment for the stupid trolls archive. I've a feeling he'll be eating his words on this one.

Why do you people put so much stock in the FISA

Why do you put so much stock in blow jobs?

Any erosion of our rights is wrong. Yes, you can no doubt find examples of it in odd corners of our existence. It becomes immeasurably different when the President orders it, circumvents the judicial process demanded and guaranteed by legislation, then lies about it.

Clinton got a blowjob, while Busch fucked us all. I know which one is worse. That you don't is your own problem.

Get in line for the payoff? No. They need payback. I think people caught in this deserve payback. I really hope they get it.

Why am I not surprised that Toby surfs porno sites? LOL

Of course, the issue isn't, to my mind, as much about our rights, important as that is, but about the abuses.

That's the point of civil liberties anyway, to be free from unreasonable things. It's not an abstract concept, it's grounded in reality.

What was in those NSA intercepts that john bolton was successfully filibustered for, why did tommy boy delay get a pass on using Homeland Security to track those wayward Texas Democrats?

Our Rights are enumerated to show that the government cannot seize our persons, or our property, or our expressions, without cause, thus preventing those things that the colonists started this bloody experiment about.

If Big Pharma wants some cheap miracle drug squashed, they squash it. If they enlist the government to do it, they call it lobbying. If the government goes on a rampage, sorting through all kinds of communications keying words like "pot," "grass," "medical marijuana," etc, raids those households and suppresses the whole medical marijuana industry/business/experiment, you've got violations of our fundamental rights by our own government.

How many Congresscritters, how many reporters, how many people with "No Blood for Oil" bumper stickers has the NSA been listening too? The Denver 3 got tossed for their "Bumper Sticker" but it could have really been something else, some phone conversations tapped into by the NSA, now couldn't it?

I could go on, but hopefully you get the point.

Fuck the terrorists, they aren't the problem. bush and his corporate cronies, they're the problem. Remmeber when kenny boy was screwing California and Grandma Millie? People died in car crashes because of the power outages, business went under because of the electric bills. Do you think that whole scam went on without some sort of awareness by the bush administration?

They can't be trusted because they're in bed with too many monied interests that have no binding ties to this country and its laws. If you're in the way, they will roll you over by whatever means available. If the NSA has access to, and does access, our communications, then they have a perfect tool to silence a critic, eliminate a competitor, spy on a competitor, force Kerry to concede, whatever it takes to make the deal.

Toby dear, you seem to be overreacting here. Emotional outbursts like yours are an example of reverting to childhood tantrums looking for attention and/or affirmation from your elders. Did your mother bottle feed you? You might find it helpful to engage your mind before you spew as it will make discussions like these less tantrumlike. And, oh, by the way, when NSA/FBI & your Pres. don't follow the guidelines of FISA, the people they arrest, like Padilla, have been denied due process under our law and right or wrong, dangerous or benign, may be back on the streets because they were denied due process under the FISA laws. Unless, of course, your Pres. follows his practice of just locking them away for years and years and years or flying them out of country. There aren't two sides here. This is one country and it's time for you to stop arguing for the sake of arguing. Really. You'll feel so much better if you take your foot off the brake. And by the way, how much are they paying you?

Ann:

I don't know if they've been spying on me, but they could be and that's the problem.

They "could" be? My! Sounds like you've got grounds for a lawsuit. Be sure to call the ACLUniks in the morning. Maybe you can get in on the class action.

Jesus!
Posted by Toby Petzold at January 17, 2006 07:47 PM

*****

Larry Diamond is suing. Remember him? Hoover Institute guy, sent over to Iraq to advise the CPA? Yeah, he's suing, because he, in his job (promoting democracy in the middle east), believes he may have been a victim of the illegal NSA wiretapping due to his numerous contacts in the middle east. The problem, Toby the Fuck asks? Well, the problem, Toby the Fuck, is that Mr. Diamond believes that the illegal NSA spying is having a chilling effect on his ability to converse with individuals in middle eastern countries because these individuals believe that they may be apprehended and renditioned. The net effect? Halting the progression of democracy in the middle east. How perfectly Bushiite Orwellian THAT outcome is.

You lose, Toby the Fuck. Get used to the feeling. It's your destiny.

Gibberish. You haven't lost a single liberty because of the War against Islamofascism. Admit it.

Posted by Toby Petzold at January 17, 2006 07:25 PM

I no longer have the liberty to express my disagreement with the unelected drunken cokeheaded deserter anywhere that it could make an impression in his vacuous melon.

I no longer have the liberty of knowing that I will be able to get a trial by a jury of my peers, should any of those peers accuse me of being an 'enemy combatant'.

I no longer have the liberty of knowing who and what anyone who accuses me of a crime is accusing me of, and refuting those accusations in a court of law if anyone accuses me of being an 'enemy combatant'.

I no longer have the liberty of attending a "bipartisan" town hall meeting with any of the crooked cabal running this country into the ground if I have any history of supporting anyone but the Repugnicants, or if I refuse to sign a loyalty oath pledging my fealty to the chimperor.

Any more lame-ass questions, traitor-boy?