"And yes, every week there should be a Democratic version of the Grover Norquist message coordination sessions that take place now within the GOP's right wing."
First the dems have to actually HAVE a message. Quit blaming the media for our not having a message. Aggression has nothing to do with it. The only thing worse than not having a message is being aggressive towards someone else (the media) WHILE not having a message.
Posted by avaroo at January 25, 2006 11:39 AMWe have a message Avaroo, but I wouldn't expect you to know about it.
Posted by Steve Soto at January 25, 2006 11:44 AMI don't think we need to hit back the media as much as we need to call out the lies each and every time an [R] says them.
1) They repeat this stuff a million times. Maybe 1 in 10 is responded to by us the way it should be.
2) It's very simple to know what their spin is, it's all over the place a few days after the issue and/or scandal breaks. (e.g., "President Clinton did it too.")
3) If the hosts see us repudiating the lies of the [R]'s each and every time, they'll quit repeating this shit themselves. Well, except for Matthews and Joey the Scab. (e.g., Wolf Blitzer, who is somewhat coming around.)
4) this can be easily done by coordinated communications to each office holder and their cheif staffer.
There are NO EXCUSES for not doing this. It's their job. Call them a liar to their face. "Professional courtesy" is killing us, and the [R]'s don't practice it.
Posted by Flamethrower at January 25, 2006 11:47 AM"We have a message Avaroo"
what is it?
Posted by avaroo at January 25, 2006 11:50 AMFirst the dems have to actually HAVE a message. Quit blaming the media for our not having a message. Aggression has nothing to do with it. The only thing worse than not having a message is being aggressive towards someone else (the media) WHILE not having a message.
Posted by avaroo at January 25, 2006 11:39 AM
*****
Quit using "our" to describe yourself. You are a trollish, BushCorp apologist. Nothing more.
If one had a message, but one was trapped in a well, would one's message matter? That is the situation for Democrats, who are vilified and muzzled by the GOP-owned corporate media.
Thus, the importance of this article, which shows a way out of the well.
Quit pretending you're a Democrat. You're not...that would require critical thinking skills, which evidentially you lack.
Posted by God Of War at January 25, 2006 11:50 AMIt's time the Democrats, en mass, decided to play the same game as the Republicans. They might contemplate what might happen if they indicated to certain media outlets that they'll withhold access, refuse to appear on TV, and refuse to even talk to certain reporters if the bias in broadcasts and coverage persists.
Posted by Danton at January 25, 2006 11:51 AM
A democratic message is not about George Bush. It's about US, our ideas on healthcare, education, national security, immigration. The words George Bush should not appear anywhere in our message.
Posted by avaroo at January 25, 2006 11:51 AM"If one had a message, but one was trapped in a well, would one's message matter?"
trapped in a well? Don't you mean the media isn't listening? And WHY is the media not listening? cause we don't have a message.
Posted by avaroo at January 25, 2006 11:52 AM"They might contemplate what might happen if they indicated to certain media outlets that they'll withhold access, refuse to appear on TV, and refuse to even talk to certain reporters"
If we don't have a message, then it doesn't matter if we DO any of these things. Who cares if you won't talk to the media when you have nothing to say in the first place?
Posted by avaroo at January 25, 2006 11:54 AMWho cares if you won't talk to the media when you have nothing to say in the first place?
Who cares if someone keeps posting to this blog when they have nothing to say in the first place?
Posted by ann at January 25, 2006 11:55 AM"It's about US, our ideas on healthcare, education, national security, immigration."
You insulting pig. You are not one of "US" and we reject any connection to you in any shape or form.
Posted by Judith at January 25, 2006 12:04 PM"It's about US, our ideas on healthcare, education, national security, immigration."
A few days ago, 'roo admitted that he's just a 'pub having fun. Now he's back pretending to be a democrat again. Telling the same lie after you've admitted that it's a lie, that's some kind of memory loss to put it kindly.
Posted by rlp at January 25, 2006 12:09 PMThis is the first really good idea for concrete action I have seen. You should email this to Reid, Pelosi, et al.
Posted by Katherine at January 25, 2006 12:14 PMDemocrats are like very small dogs. For all their yapping and snarling you just know one swift kick in the ass and away they sail, powerless to harm you as they lick the bootmark from their hide. From that point forward compliant obedience usually rules, with an occasional rap to the nose to keep them in their place.
Posted by steve duncan at January 25, 2006 12:22 PMThe Republicans figured out quite a few years ago that Democrats don't fight. Not really... and not effectively, they cannot sustain the battle.
And '00, '02 and '04 and daily since (Bolton was senatorial pique, they did not broaden the issues) up to and including Alito (I watched in horror every day) prove that to the republicans.
Would that it were not so. But it is.
Posted by Marisacat at January 25, 2006 12:32 PMC'mon Steve, come kick my ass buttwipe bully tool.
C'mon and put your stupid mouth to action.
I agree this is a great start but the lies about the Democratic Party, "liberals," and "liberal media" have been repeated so often they're accepted as truth that this will not have any traction at first.
Still, it's a great idea.
Posted by citizen Able at January 25, 2006 12:41 PMWe have to get at their pocketbooks. Google became a power house because the shear number of their users made them an advertising magnet. The Left blogosphere has a huge and growing readership that should be marketed to every firm looking for a cheaper place for their ads with a bigger audience than they can find on the cable networks.
When the left blogosphere starts to tap into the advertising money of the cable networks I guarantee you they will start to take notice. Right now we don't pose a threat to their wallets but the day we do they will start to compete for the same audience and that means telling the truth for once on their news programs.
"You insulting pig."
This is not a platform and it won't win votes. We have to win votes and to do that we have to be able to articulate a vision beyond "if you disagree with me, you're not one of us". Actually, the idea that any one of us gets to decided who is and isn't "one of us" is absurd.
"A few days ago, 'roo admitted that he's just a 'pub having fun."
perhaps you'd care to quote where I "admitted" this?
"Democrats are like very small dogs. For all their yapping and snarling you just know one swift kick in the ass and away they sail, powerless to harm you as they lick the bootmark from their hide."
At the moment that appears, unfortunately, to be true. But the democratic party wasn't always full of "judiths". At one time, we had ideas and plans to beat anything the repubs could ever come up with.
Posted by avaroo at January 25, 2006 12:47 PMLook, until the Democrats understand that they now need to spend a decade "working the refs" and being more aggressive and relentless in going after the media like the GOP did in the 1990's and before, it won't matter how good we are on policy. People vote on emotion and not facts; and those emotions are based on what they see and feel, and how they see themselves.
Well, you're assuming folks would watch media with a liberal bias. And that's shown not to be very popular.
People vote on emotion based on facts. For example, when somebody says "I'm going to raise your taxes," that's a fact that creates quite an emotional response in a voter. Agreed?
Posted by muckdog at January 25, 2006 12:56 PMWhat liberal media bias? CNN, Fox, MSNBC, CBS,NBC ABC, NYT, WP? What liberal media?
Posted by Goose1 at January 25, 2006 01:10 PMC'mon Steve, come kick my ass buttwipe bully tool.
C'mon and put your stupid mouth to action.
Posted by John B. at January 25, 2006 12:33 PM
*****
You should direct that vitriol at me. I'll happily oblige.
Posted by God Of War at January 25, 2006 01:21 PMGoW- I directed that at Steve Duncan's comment at
12:22 pm. I believe you and I are on the same side and of similar persuasion.
Well, you're assuming folks would watch media with a liberal bias. And that's shown not to be very popular.
Show me where.
People vote on emotion based on facts. For example, when somebody says "I'm going to raise your taxes," that's a fact that creates quite an emotional response in a voter. Agreed?
Another Muck Straw Man.
Posted by Steve Soto at January 25, 2006 01:29 PMI believe you and I are on the same side and of similar persuasion.
Posted by John B. at January 25, 2006 01:25 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Our very own Bushisms without the Dubya!
Posted by steve duncan at January 25, 2006 01:30 PMWith all due respect, Steve, while I agree we have a message, we don't have a story, a narrative. Rove has spent his lifetime cultivating George Bush, Action Hero. To match that we need to think in terms of narrative structure: protagonist, narrative tension, resolution, authorial viewpoint if we're going to turn our message into a narrative.
Posted by emptywheel at January 25, 2006 01:31 PMGoW- I directed that at Steve Duncan's comment at
12:22 pm. I believe you and I are on the same side and of similar persuasion.
Posted by John B. at January 25, 2006 01:25 PM
*****
Oops...I thought that was a rip on Soto.
My bad. Sorry, dude.
Posted by God Of War at January 25, 2006 01:33 PMWith all due respect, Steve, while I agree we have a message, we don't have a story, a narrative. Rove has spent his lifetime cultivating George Bush, Action Hero. To match that we need to think in terms of narrative structure: protagonist, narrative tension, resolution, authorial viewpoint if we're going to turn our message into a narrative.
Posted by emptywheel at January 25, 2006 01:31 PM
*****
G Dub, Action Hero would not have been possible if we had a functioning media.
Fucking worthless synchophant media...one has to wonder exactly what the endgame for the media is. I mean if the middle class is decimated by the GOP to the point of not being able to afford the shit advertisers pay the media to promote, what good has licking GOP taint done the stupid bastards?
Posted by God Of War at January 25, 2006 01:36 PMLook, folks, Al Gore delivered a major speech recently. It was not well covered and the guy, even if he says he's not interested in running, is the focus of discussion about a possible run. We also have journalists who now say they found it easy to ridicule Gore in 2000, and other journalists who now admit they've been too soft of Bush.
Yes, much of the media is biased, and it's a major problem (message or no message).
This guy " 'roo" sounds like a Grover Norquist clone.
Posted by Danton at January 25, 2006 01:58 PMemptywheel is absolutely right. A narrative that the people can see themselves in, that gives context to democratic ideals. A friend and I have been hashing this over and over, but how to you get the bums to figure it out?
PS, I don't think steve duncan is a baddie, just someone disgusted with the dems like we all are sometimes.
Posted by iamcoyote at January 25, 2006 02:03 PMI think right now, the only message Democrats need to agree on is that we're furious at how much of America's potential is being wasted. Anything more specific than that, frankly, would be dishonest.
Posted by dj moonbat at January 25, 2006 02:05 PMThere are no fucking referees in politics.
Daou
Why do Democrats keep losing elections? It's this: the traditional media, the trusted media, the "neutral" media, have become the chief delivery mechanism of potent anti-Democratic and pro-Bush storylines. And the Democratic establishment appears to be either ignorant of this political quandary or unwilling to fight it.
No. It began with the realignment of the Democrats and the 'entrepreneurial' middle class, not the press. The democratic elite can't see through their own guilt ridden hypocrisy. They're not 'left' and they're not 'right' they're just flabby and rich; and they don't believe in leading or leadership so they follow.
And the press is just as easily led as the rest of the country.
The press has never deserved to be on the pedestal you imagine it's fallen from.
Posted by Seth Edenbaum at January 25, 2006 02:39 PMPeople vote on emotion based on facts. For example, when somebody says "I'm going to raise your taxes," that's a fact that creates quite an emotional response in a voter. Agreed?
No, I've heard on the radio, that when asked about taxes in the context of social services, people are very willing to pay more.
There is one liberal news Media call free speech TV, except it is only on the dish. They do have Democracy Now. Today Amy has the Iraqi journalist from the Guardian and Ch. 4 in UK , Ali Fadhil.
Wednesday, January 25th, 2006
You can listen or watch it
GoW
Why is it nessesary to insult anyone who does not agree with the Bolshevic nonsense spewed out by the Bush-Bashers?? Try this. Go find your average highway road cone and insult that!! It'll probably educate you. A LOT !!!
Posted by Jim G at January 25, 2006 03:13 PM"But the democratic party wasn't always full of "judiths". At one time, we had ideas and plans to beat anything the repubs could ever come up with."
Insulting pig. Yes my dear, I can judge who is and who isn't a Democrat on this Blog, and "you sir are no Democrat." It has been your posts that have betrayed you. Now, let's hear again about your "liberal" leaning beliefs. Perhaps you can list them for us, as we somehow are not getting that message. Come on Ivaroo, list your liberal beliefs. This should be the night's intertainment.
Posted by Judith at January 25, 2006 03:30 PMJim, No one ever says bad thing about Democrates right!!!! No one ever bashed Clinton did they. Pay back a bitch.
Posted by Goose1 at January 25, 2006 03:30 PMOur party was built with the likes of Judith asshole.
Posted by at January 25, 2006 03:41 PMOur party was built with the likes of Judith, yes. Just not sure what the fuck happened to it.
Posted by Sharon at January 25, 2006 03:58 PMSteve, your "pushback press conference" idea is pretty interesting. But it really tells me that you understand what James Carville is talking about: this country's Democratic Party needs to get its alibi straight and [pull over to the right]. Y'alls narrative is all over the fucking place and no one has any reason but Bush-hatred to advance the party's agenda.
Listen to Nancy Pelosi, man: the war isn't going to be a litmus test for the party's candidates in 2006. Why is that? Why is the Democratic leadership slinking away from the supposed central moral outrage of these times? Because they know that it will continue to sink the Democratic Party.
I will not feel sorry for the Democratic Party when it loses even more seats this November. Instead, I will actually begin to worry that it has been talken over by kooks who do not want a return to moderation.
Posted by Toby Petzold at January 25, 2006 04:49 PMWell, you're assuming folks would watch media with a liberal bias. And that's shown not to be very popular.
That's why FOX gets that resounding 2.8 share. Christ! The Food Channel probably does better.
Posted by phidipides at January 25, 2006 04:52 PMI watch the Food Channel. I do, all time.
Posted by paradox at January 25, 2006 04:58 PMToby,
Why should we take any advice from an "ooga booga" bedwetter like you? Lose seats? LOL, you still think bush is popular? And the popularity of the current president has a lot to do with the oppposition winning and losing votes.
How do you manage to be completely duped all the time? Man, you prove the adage "you can fool some of the people all the time."
It's the GOP that's really out of touch with the majority of Americans. The coalition is collapsing, you just don't realize it yet. Iraq is the equivalent of Vietnam. The GOP will be splitting over a lost war in 2008.
According to the latest pew poll, the conservatives in this country have shrunk 1/3 of the country. Only you would think that you can win elections with 1/3 of the country.
Mark my words, no one will want Jr. to campaign for them this year. They will be ducking and hiding from the idiot. They learned their lesson from VA, Jr. is political poison and they don't want him anywhere near them.
How's that search for WMD's in Syria going? LOL!
Posted by Ga6thDem at January 25, 2006 05:00 PMI too would be interested in hearing what exactly avaroo stands for.
Could you enlighten us all with some of your top tier ideas that are in agreement with the current Democratic Party?
Or perhaps more to the point - why exactly are you a Democrat? What exactly do you stand for?
Posted by MisterOpus1 at January 25, 2006 05:03 PMThe big meme now amongst the rightwing bed-wetters is that the Iraq War "Will be no big thing next year."
Riiigggghhhhtttt...the voters will ignore the 400 billion-dollar gorilla in the room!
That pile of 2,800 rotting U.S. military corpses, pay it no mind!
Have one of 40,000 (or so, as W said) ashtrays made from the skull of Iraqis. Vote GOP!
If there is a God, you 'winger pigfuckers will rot in hell for your complicity in this affront to humanity.
Posted by Ras_Nesta at January 25, 2006 05:42 PMCome on Ivaroo, you said you are a Democrat and refer to the party by using "we" and "our." Put your money where your big mouth is and tell us what makes you a Democrat and what you believe. We are all waiting for your reply, at least myself and MisterOpus1 are.
Posted by Judith at January 25, 2006 07:21 PMYou see the freaks strategy perfectly well here, classic rovian garbage.
Act like a winner, and you'll be a winner, right boy's?
There are two problems with the Democrats. 1, the media that carries the messages, the political discourse, has failed in it's obligations. Which is why the keep losing market share to other forms of messaging. And rather than address it, like any self loathing, er, respecting republican, they try to change the playing field to suit themselves, even though the "playing field" can only be manipulated so much.
And 2, the Democrats en masse, have failed to provide leadership. 45 Senators, and I can count a handful, Reid, Boxer, Feingold (sometimes), Schumer (most of the time), Kennedy (usually), that fairly consistently do the left thing. Kerry Clinton Durbin Harkin Leahy either calculate or equivocate too much. And in the House it's even worse.
Howard Dean is only one man. The rest of the Dems need to get their collective heads out of their collective asses, stop smelling each others shit, and get on board the boxing card. The Grassroots can only do so much without leadership.
We got Howard in at the DNC, but that's tactical, we need strategic moves. The Grassroots cannot fulfill that function. That's what happened with the Okapi, god took the afternoon off and left it to the office workers to finish off the beasts and everybody cleaned out their desk drawers of the leftovers and smooshed them all together.
Posted by Duckman GR at January 25, 2006 08:24 PMCan you reach the Democrats? I can't. If you can get your message to them and make them understand then please do so. They won't read your blog. Get your message to them for all of us.
Posted by Margaret at January 26, 2006 11:51 AM"And 2, the Democrats en masse, have failed to provide leadership."
This I agree with. Your first point, that the media has somehow failed is just blame shifting. The media will cover the dems WHEN WE HAVE SOMETHING TO COVER.
Why has the democratic leadership failed completely to craft a messgae and then stay on it. The republicans have a message and, by god, they stay on it. And voters, having a choice between a message on one side, even one they don't particularly like, and having zero idea what the other side wants to do, other than "The opposite of whatever the republicans want" are going to continue to select option one. The devil you know is better than the devil you don't.
So, let's demand that our leadership craft a policy on each area we want to talk about, and GWB is NOT an area we want to talk about. We want to talk about healthcare and immigration and education and national security.
Posted by avaroo at January 26, 2006 12:31 PMSteve: I respectfully suggest that you're missing the larger point, which is the lack of competent, articulate, liberal representation in the media (well-worn conservative talking points notwithstanding). As long as the left is represented on the tube by the likes of Shrum, colmes, Estrich, etc., (and a balanced discussion on Fox News consists of Fred Barnes, Kondracke, Brit Hume, and Juan Williams, or the Hardball Hotshots consisting of Matthews, Joe Scarborough, Tucker Carlson, and Rita Cosby) there is little likelihood of the current standoff changing. I think that was my main lesson learned from the 2004 election.
What is badly needed is a large-scale boycott of the sponsors of all offending news shows both cable and network - not to take them off the air but to insist that they include a balanced viewpoint with competent representatives from the left (yes, trollers, they do exist). This was done on a small scale in the 2004 election when there was a threat of a Kerry smear program being shown on a prime-time network very close to the election; the sponsor boycott (which, if I remember correctly, you helped to generate) relegated the show to a non-prime time showing on a lesser-seen network and lost much of its intended effectiveness. This is what the conservatives do all the time (to their credit) when they don't like something and it always works. When are we going to learn that hitting them in the pocketbook is the only thing that will ever change the media.
I've read many comments on TLC where your readers say that they are so fed up with those cable shows that they aren't going to watch anymore. That can't be the answer. Only a large-scale sponsor boycott will work.
Keep up the great work, TLC.
Glen
Posted by Glen at January 26, 2006 06:40 PM