Exactly right.

Here here! There is no war on terror. It's a myth invented by unpatriotic tyrants.

That’s my answer: terrorists will never dictate our lives. We are not threatened, and fear will never rule our existence.

You say this as if the far right of the republi-con party suddenly became rational. They are not -and never will be- rational. Faith, misery, irrational thinking and the absudities of Catch-22 rule in the U.S.S.A. I fear it will be so for some time. Your security is based around $122 billion off-budget that gets handed around to corporations without scrutiny. As long as you go for that, you are secure. Anything less, you need to wonder about wire taps.

The right fears the Broke Back Mountain liberal faggot lesbian supporting Hollywood gay-etizing stereotyped democrat. The thing they perceive as the far left. They fear it so much that they let the far right war mongering nuke-em-at-any-cost Jesus-baiting seditious neo-cons take control of their party and get their hands on the purse strings of the party. If there is anything a republi-con will take it in the ass for, it's money. And the far right controls the money too well and too tightly.

It's not the terrorists you need to fear. It's the 15% of far right republi-cons in control of that party.

a courageous comment and very nicely said.

my view exactly.

the attack on new york and washington in sept 2001 has been the tail that wagged the dog in public discourse in this country for 5+ years.

that's long enough; in fact, too long by 5+ years.

part of the reason this has happened is that it has been either unwise or unsafe for an individual to publicly discuss the minimal threat to the u.s. by al quaeda.

there is a form of "terrorism" in this country that threatens harm to an individual who publicly violates the t-vee established norms for "proper" public discourse.

recall the cases of the two newsmen who criticized president bush for turning tail and flying to nebraska on sept 11.

both were right; bushs' action was clearly inappropriate for a leader. nonetheless, both were pilloried in the media. and both were fired.

in this case, saying, for example that al quaeda has attacked symbolic physical tagets, (world trade center, uss cole, u.s. embassies) mostly overseas and does not pose a serious threat to americans in the u.s. would have aroused a hurricane of wrath directed at the commenter.

yet it is in fact the case.

saying that the terrorism we have experienced in this country since sept 11, 2001 has all been internally generated ,i.e., by americans, will similarly generate, at least, verbally violent protest directed at the commenter.

but that, too,is in fact the case:

-the anthrax murders

-- the young man who put pipe bombs in mail boxes in a western state.

-- environmental and animal rights arson

-- some character in texas who planned to set off a chlorine "bomb" in a shopping center

-- john mohammed and his demented young rifleman who really did terrorize washington, d.c., maryland, and virginia with fourteen shootings.

there are probably others i dont know about.

the media are complicit in this "terrorism" directed at "unacceptable" public speech, including speech about the actual level of danger to americans from foreign terrorists.

and there are other issues that need airing such as the difficulty of actually implementing anything other than a symbolic biological or chemical attack on the us. or for that matter a nuclear one.

This can't be said enough. The Republicans and the fraidy cat news media have convinced many Americans that they should be frightened for their lives because of the risk of massive terrorist attacks on the likes of Lawrence, Kansas, or Casper, Wyoming, or Lima, Ohio.

But make no mistake about it. The only thing BushCo and the Rethugs are afraid of is having their con exposed. Contrary to what many liberals seem to want to think, the Republicans are not hiding under their beds at night. No fucking way. To them, this is about power pure and simple -- using perpetual war and the threat of terrorism to create a one-party government for the indefinite future. If they're successful, the media will be aboard and the Democrats will be irrelevant. (I suspect that late at night when they're sitting around knocking back one scotch after another, they're laughing their asses off at the gullible news media and the stupid electorate.)

These guys have exploited the 9/11 attacks adroitly, and everybody has fallen for it. They've seemlessly weaved 9/11 into Iraq and now Iraq into Iran.

When will America wake up to this con?

The reason I don't fly anymore is not because I'm afraid the plane will be taken over by terrorists; it's because the airlines, in an effort to cut costs but still keep the CEOs in million dollar bonuses, have cut the maintenance workers' pay, made them work longer hours after laying off people, and have underfunded pensions. I hate to say this, but a disgruntled worker is less likely to care whether s/he does a good job fixing a plane.

I figure if a nuke goes off in the US, it's because this band of criminals in charge want it to go off, just to blame the terrorists.

I am not afraid.

I am; just peed my pants, in fact.

Any terra'ist dumb enough to whip out a weapon on one of my flights would hit the tarmac in a body bag...and if he was fool enough to try the boxcutter route, I'd have a little fun with him before sending him upon his final destination.

I agree...I'm more concerned about apathetic maintenance workers and the fuck-everyone CEOs.

I grew up with Soviet ICBMs threatening nuclear holocaust every second of every day. I'm sorry, but a bunch of crazy bastards who riot over cartoons really don't push quite the dread button that impending nuclear annhilation did. THAT was an existential threat. This is not.

What really sucks is that Islamofreaks ARE a threat to Americans on an individual level, and our government has been rendered incompetent at dealing effectively with the threat because of BushCorp's ruination of the intelligence services and its focus on unconstitutional power grabs.

Bush and Bin Laden are two sides of the same coin.

Iran is the leading sponsor of terrorism. You like the idea of Mullahs with nukes?

The Democratic Party: Because Cowardice is for Frenchmen, not Americans!

Succinctly stated, as a military proposition.

But the Founders (could they see the American Behemoth of 2006) would perhaps argue that our exploitative, egregious prominence, both militarily and economically, virtually everywhere on the globe, are "foreign entanglements". They feared that such entanglements drag a nation, even unwillingly, into endless international conflicts.

And they thought it best to avoid these. Perhaps they were right, watching the events of the last decade of so unfold.

Of course military technology has changed, but we are unchallenged in that field. The vast oceans still protect us; our borders are some of the most friendly in the world. Is a military of the enormous size of ours, really necessary for national security?

In this sense, there is something to be said for being a "conservative", although not many on the reactionary right would approve of such a defense policy.

But the Founders (could they see the American Behemoth of 2006) would perhaps argue that our exploitative, egregious prominence, both militarily and economically, virtually everywhere on the globe, are "foreign entanglements". They feared that such entanglements drag a nation, even unwillingly, into endless international conflicts.

And they thought it best to avoid these.

Yes, far better to beat up on the locals and take their land. Those Founders were such great guys.

Iran is the leading sponsor of terrorism. You like the idea of Mullahs with nukes?

No, I think that is the Sauds. Remember the ones who Jr. plays kissy face with?

Frankly, muck, your hero has become an international joke and Iran is laughing in his face right now. The idiot you love so much has put us in a precarious position.

The motto of the GOP: It's somebody's else' problem!

You like the idea of Mullahs with nukes?

And Georgie set such a good precedent for discouraging Iran by overlooking Indias pissing on the Non-proliferation Treaty.

If you're a mullah in Iran what does that say to you?

The War is Over

Technically we are still at "war", in that we have troops stationed in two foreign countries engaging in military activity. But the slight of hand that the administration has used is to conflate these military actions with the "war on terror" and thus be able to claim a never ending state of war.

The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are over. What we have now is post-war occupation and policing. If the wars weren't over would we be engaged in reconstruction activities? I don't remember the allies rebuilding parts of Germany in 1943.

Rebuilding starts when the enemy has been subdued and the war is over.

The other war (on terrorism) is a metaphorical war, like the war on drugs or the war on crime. Groups of people, "terrorists", wish to engage in committing illegal activities which may cause harm to others. The only effective response is some combination of policing and investigation. A traditional military response won't work since there are seldom military targets to attack. Thus, this is not a "war" as such, but an ongoing effort to maintain public order and security. It is what all countries do as a matter of course. Criminal enterprises are never entirely eradicated, that's why every society has a police function.

So we are not at war, anymore. We are engaged in an ongoing effort to prevent harmful and illegal actions by those who wish to pursue their own objectives. These people can be drug dealers, the mafia, or "terrorists". The techniques for countering their threats are the same and don't require extraordinary federal powers.

So let's not play into the hands of those making a power play and stop using their slanted terminology. The US is not at war. Let's not let those who wish to abuse their power continue to use this as an excuse for civil liberties abuses.

Iraq and Afghanistan are (to use an unfashionable term) peacekeeping operations and the effort to prevent illegal attacks in the US is just that, a police effort against violent lawbreakers.

I think you are half right. You think that the best plan is to follow Murtha's suggestion to take the troops out of Iraq and station them, as Murtha puts it, on the horizon. Regardless of whether the U.S. troops are above or beyond, over or under the horizon, the Iraqis realize that those troops can be called back into their country at a moment's notice, ready to instigate more chaos and killing. The Iraqis understand that they will never become rid of the U.S. military as long as the U.S. continues to maintain 14 military bases in that country. The Republicans, as well as the Democrats and many of the people in this country, want to ignore the fact that bin Laden attacked this country because the U.S. insisted that it keep its military in the Middle East. As long as that military remains in the region, there will continue to be bloodshed in that area caused by America's belligerent foreign policy.

Iran is the leading sponsor of terrorism. You like the idea of Mullahs with nukes?
Posted by muckdog at February 7, 2006 08:07 AM

*****

Yet another failure of BushCorp. Our Iraq adventure has emboldened them. They are flagrantly taunting us now.

Aren't you proud, MuckityFuck?

Perspective! Great post.

WOW! Truly a sad commentary that it took so damned long for someone to put into words what should have been the Democratic position all along. This is an excellent post, true words of inspiration, and should be the platform of every congressional candidate this fall, and beyond. Seriously, this is brilliant. I dare any Republican to challenge this position. This platform will win!

Well said Steve.

Though I think that a good portion of those in power are not afraid either. They just see terrorism as this type of ambiguous war that can be perpetuated indefintely and thus can use the fear factor to control and preserve power. Take away that fear mongering and what do you have left? Deep down they have a disdain for "little people."

iamcoyote:
hate to say this, but a disgruntled worker is less likely to care whether s/he does a good job fixing a plane.

Underfunding pensions is a big issue and but I really thinking that AFP's (Airframe/Powerplant mechanics) are the weak link in the airline industry is wrong. My brother is an AFP for Continental (granted they are one of the financially healthly airlines atm) and he is paid pretty darn well. I can personally guarantee you that of all the AFP's that I've met, while some of them may have some grievances from time to time, none would ever consider deliberate sabatoge.

Employee turnover with AFP's is nearly nil.

There are also many checks in the process of clearing aircraft for flight. There would have to be one hell of a conspiracy to get unsafe aircraft in flight.

The route by which some nefarious element would get through and cause a problem is baggage handling. Not knocking handlers, that's just the weakest point of airline security (imo).

Paradox,

I can't believe that you haven't received a hundred posts on this brilliant piece. It has a few typos, can I correct them before sending it around? Please cross post it as a diary at dailykos. Its *that* good.

best
aimai

As a Veteran I was reminded of why I am proud to have have served. You words have surmounted all the fog of Fear that has been spewn and smothers our country.
You are so right! It is time to stand tall against the fear mongers.

Iran is the leading sponsor of terrorism.

yes, keep repeating that. iran did it!

yes iran has invaded its neighbors!

Uhhmmm... would "that swift, massive retribution" apply should The Terrorist occupy The White House?

We have nothing to fear, but fear itself.

to quote winston churchill and franklin roosevelt (great americans both):

I have nothing to offer you but fear itself.

Iran is the leading sponsor of terrorism. You like the idea of Mullahs with nukes?

Good Lord, I don't like the idea of Bush and Cheney having nukes.

Great post, Paradox -- the Democrats cluelessness about modern politics is never so evident as when they fret in public about process, rather than doing what needs to be done. This applies to Howard Dean, too -- his "confederate flag" gaffe was an excellent process observation, but neither he nor any other Democrat has laid out an argument that will actually appeal to those folks.

On a slightly OT note, in a comment thread at FireDogLake, someone said that Democrats need to read and re-read "Boyd: The Fighter Pilot Who Changed the Art of War".

My response is -- yes and no. Air to Air and Air to Ground combat tactics and weaponry has some metaphorical value in politics, but less practical value. That said, there is no doubt that the Democrats need to develop some serious strategic vision -- I'm just not sure this book is it.

But there was one bit in the following review, that explains much about why BushCo is so effective in political shock and awe, and so screwed up when it comes to getting stuff done.

"Boyd: The Fighter Pilot Who Changed the Art of War"

The Thinking Fighter Pilot

Coram breaks his book into three sections: Fighter Pilot, Engineer and Scholar. ... John Boyd became the first man to codify the elusive and mysterious ways of air-to-air combat. He developed and wrote the 'Aerial Attack Study,' a document that became official Air Force doctrine -- the bible of air combat -- first in America and then, when it was declassified, for air forces around the world. Put another way, while still a junior officer, John Boyd changed the way every air force in the world flies and fights." ...

Changing the Air Force

Coram's story follows Boyd after graduation to Eglin AFB in the Florida panhandle where "40-Second Boyd" begins a new form of combat. Boyd asserts that the USAF is producing the wrong fighters. The USAF mantra of "bigger, faster, and heavier" is a failed doctrine being brutally proven in Southeast Asia, where lighter, cruder but more agile MiGs are shooting down bigger, faster, heaving F-4s and F-105s. ...

Fighter Mafia

In short order, Coram moves to Boyd's years in the Pentagon and his involvement with the development of the F-15. Boyd meets and makes more fast friends and forms a group many angrily called the "Fighter Mafia." It is the Fighter Mafia that takes on the USAF generals and essentially rams two concepts down the USAF's throat: No one wants a tiny, lightweight, single-seat, single-engine fighter, and everyone chokes on the concept of a slow, ugly, twin-engine, subsonic attack airplane with twin tails. The tiny fighter becomes the F-16. The ugly subsonic attack aircraft is produced as the A-10. ...

After Retirement

Boyd retires from the USAF but he continues to take his concepts of energy and warfare to anyone who will listen, one being a [Congressman] from Wyoming, Dick Cheney. Boyd creates what is known as the OODA Loop (Observe, Orient, Decide, Act), but the OODA Loop is not a linear 1-2-3-4 process. It is a complex concept that takes hours to fully explain. Boyd continues developing a briefing on "Patterns of Conflict," which looks at all forms of combat, but at 14 hours in length, is anything but brief.

=====

The OODA Loop is the strategic model of how Rove and Company work, and Dick Cheney's involvement with this explains a lot about the BushCo vision of military transformation, which has been thoroughly discredited in Iraq. Our military needs updating, but fighter tactics applied to ground forces ain't it. 4th Generation warfare is completely immune to air power -- boots on the ground force transformation needs Blue Helmet peacekeeper training, not shock and awe. But that's another story.

Anyway, back to the point -- strategic planning is vital for Democratic success, and public handwringing about our lack of message and vision only reinforces the GOP narrative. So all you whiney Democratic Politicians -- SHUT UP ALREADY!!!

And your National Defense rhetoric is exactly why the repugs are still in power and the dems are hopelessly behind on NS.

You are taking an overly intellectual approach to terrorism by saying terrorist can attack us but we won't lose our dignatiy. WRONG! (Yes, at policy wonk dinner parties at the State Dept, this is probably true), but you never say that to the people.

Dems have to be more aggressive, more crazy, and have a more itchy trigger finger when is comes to terrorists then the GOP or we will never win. Our policy must be the repugs are not doing enough to keep us safe, dems can do better.

We are bogged down in Iraq, no OBL, Iran on the loose, NK with nukes. What the hell are the repugs trying to do, get us killed. We have to support Iraq 110%, yet, always be asking when is that mission going to be completed so we have troop and resources to continue the fight. How is the GOP protecting our ports and trains? Dems are in favor terrorist NSA tapping (but legally through an updated FISA).

This is the post 911 world Karl Rove talks about. This is taking the opposing parties best issue and making it better (a trick Clinton was quite good at).

So I applaud your attempt to creat dialog about the dem's NS policy, but your rhetoric is too wimpy. Amer wants to be protected not engaged in a geo-political discussion about the nueiances of terrorism. Leave that for the cocktail circuit.

Our way of life is not threatened. There is no more to fear than there ever was for any of our forefathers in the country, not even close. We are not threatened. I am not afraid.

While I personally am not afraid. Our way of life IS threatened. Your writing this article may be an omen.

Remember, they did not start writing articles about the Real Estate Bubble until housing prices topped out in 2005 and began to decline.

Similarly, now that you are writing so boldly about the US's domination, I submit we are losing it.

The economy - whether you are aware of it or not - is on the verge of collapsing. We are about to have another 1930's major depression, but this time we do not have major industires here to pull us out of it. They are in India, China and Mexico.

The value of the $USD should tank down to a minimum of $0.60 if not below, with the decline beginning in a few months. The real estate market collapse will follow shortly thereafter, along with a major financial collapse. Most of the economy, including jobs, these last few years has been fueled by the real estate - based upon CREDIT from foreign countries. When credit dries up, so does the economy, so goes the jobs. We are already more in debt that we have ever been.

Sorry, I am not a pessimist just a realist. We are facing serious times and a major economic depression that is about to change our landscape forever. Period.

p.s., you can thank the pres. for the severity of our problems, but I do not think he really has a conscience and cares much

Mr. Anon:

You may not be the pessimist I am, but I have been trying to get that message across for a couple of years now. Thanks for reinforcing these points.

Anyone following the foreign media will see reports confirming everything Mr. Anon presents above, so don't be surprised when it happens. It IS coming - and soon. No amount of American political bluff or military might bluster is going to stop it, either.

Please cross post it as a diary at dailykos. Its *that* good.

That's like saying that a fine chef needs to go work at an Appleby's with multiple health violations.

Link a dKos blurb here, the original article. That way both the article and the site get more traffic.

But paradox, please don't ever write like they do a dKos. Please!

I'm with idio, dKos can link here, because TLC is that good!

Simp, you're right that I shouldn't assume shoddy workmanship on the part of the mechanics working on the planes; there are still those in America that take pride in their work, no matter what's happening. Still, an airline that tries to cut corners buys inferior parts, and is likely to cut corners elsewhere. I was also thinking that the work ethic that once made America strong is dwindling fast - it's not valued as much as it once was. Also, in a corporate-friendly atmosphere, it might be less expensive to pay off the fines for shoddy parts than make products that are safe for consumers.

And yes, I'm a wimp when it comes to flying.

On all matters important, it's been a case of Misplaced Faith with Bush and the Republicans.

"Paradox, I can't believe that you haven't received a hundred posts on this brilliant piece. It has a few typos, can I correct them before sending it around? Please cross post it as a diary at dailykos. Its *that* good.

I did cross-post it immediately. It was ignored; some self-important asshhole picked and sneered at it; I'm sorry I ever responded to it.

[shrugs] Almost all of my work is ignored over there. I hardly know why I do it anymore.

Please correct and send around all you wish.

Apologies to Paradox, I saw steve's name on the open post and transferred to your excellent post.

Great post Paradox. *8^)

Bushco's legion of incompetents believes that our economy can weather whatever abuse they throw at it.

Unsustainable and enormous federal deficits; endless, rising military spending; desperate reliance on immense foreign capital; record levels of personal debt; a housing "boom" manipulated by absurd, historically low interest rates; race-to-the-bottom free tradism; union busting; increasing poverty, uninsureds, personal bankruptcies, home foreclosures, and on and on.

We're on the brink of catastrophe. Heckuva job, Georgie! Thanks, Republicans and "conservative" nitwits.

Great post paradox!
We have enough to worry about just from our politicians and CEO's why worry about some terrorists!

I just got back from volunteering at the VA hospital. If only I could make georgie boy see what is happening to people's lives. No walk-ins anymore. They can't handle the volume!

I'd add more but it's looks like everything is covered. Keep it up everyone, never give in and please, let's take America back!!

"park the divisions right on the border in case of any disastrous trouble and pray for the best".

That is really comforting and a real display of courage. We have a long ways to go.

Nice post paradox.
Have you read State of Fear by Michael Crichton?

Perhaps I will, Roy Batty. I admire him a great deal as a writer, IF he stays away from that horrible hollywood screenwriter mentality.

His earlier work was much better, I think, than the later stuff. Still, I will check it out.

'Never again we will allow terrorist to draw us into a disastrous “war”'

We weren't drawn into a disastrous war (I assume you are referring to Iraq). As everything Bush does, the terrorist attack was merely the pretext to do what he already wanted to do. As related by his ghost writer, candidate Bush was already talking about attacking Iraq in 1999 ( http://www.gnn.tv/articles/article.php?id=761 ).

Let's be very clear on this, TERRORISTS DID NOT DRAW US INTO THE IRAQ WAR. The Bush administration continually associates the Iraq war with terrorists to cover their illegal war of choice and also as their justification for abrogation of civil liberties. It is disappointing to have a liberal blogger adopt GOP spin in making a point.

A brief comment on dKos --

The front page posts at dKos are consistently very good to excellent, the diaries run the gamut, but the many of the comment threads have the sophistication of a junior high food fight.

I should have said thank you earlier for all the kind comments; at least I am saying it now, thank you.

It means a lot, in a lot of different ways. Thanks.

paradox,

Well said, brother, well said.

That's a clean way of putting it, that we're sick of bushco peddling the fear angle. I'm not afraid. What's Iran gonna do? Launch nukes with what? And how many do they have?

I think MAD required hundreds of nukes per US and USSR to do the job, I don't think Iran is quite up to that, do you?

We all know why these assholes are doing it. The trick is to enlighten more people.

Good job, p!

Sch brvd. Th nly thng t fr s th trth bt yrslvs. Th prtns wld b mch mr cnvncng f t wrn't fr th ngng nd vcs mschrctrztn f th mtvtns bhnd cmbttng th llslmc scrg. Hv fn wth t whl th rst f s ngg n th prctcl mttrs.

"They shared all our anxieties and all our hopes. They rejoiced with us that peace was preserved, and with us they look forward to further efforts to consolidate what has been done.

Ever since I assumed my present office my main purpose has been to work for the pacification of Europe, for the removal of those suspicions and those animosities which have so long poisoned the air. The path which leads to appeasement is long and bristles with obstacles. Now that we have got past it, I feel that it may be possible to make further progress along the road to sanity."

Pair of ducks' great grandfather's speech.
aka Neville Chamberlain's Peace in our Time.

Way to go Pair of ducks. Did it make you feel good to write all that patriotic stuff as if you really, really believed it....

I loved the part about building up the military....

Thats why I love to read your posts....puts a smile on my face...sort of like watching
AMERICAN IDOL and seeing people who really believe they can sing, but refuse to acknowledge that they are awful..... keep it up, I love the laughs.

'....but even the worst they have tried against so far only took 3,000 of us."

Only? Well, I suppose that you will be able to ratchet up the number if necessary: "only took 30,000"....or..."only took 300,000."

"Rest assured that swift, massive retribution awaits any terrorist or individual foolish enough to strike the United States."

I take it you mean strongly worded condemnation by the United Nations: I do think that such a solution would be in accordance with Senator Kerry's "global test."

"Waging holy war endlessly all the time while we crush or freedoms, bleed our Army dry and raid the Treasury is precisely what the terrorists want us to do."

Holy war? It seems to me that the one side in this conflict that is invoking God is the terrorists.

"We will follow Murtha’s plan, get the hell out of Iraq, park the divisions right on the border in case of any disastrous trouble and pray for the best."

Pray for the best? What brilliant military strategy!
And if it is true that the terrorist in Iraq are there only because the United States military is there, what logic leads you to believe that the terrorists will not follow our troops to whatever border the divisions are parked [on]. Oh, sorry, it is that pray for the best thingy.

And as to the rest of the post, if this is the Democratic strategy to fight the war on global terrorism.....as I have posted before, the Democratic party is finished.

I must admit, this thread has given me a real challenge on how to respond to such unreality.

First, this is just too juicy to pass up: "We have swiftly recovered from the economic damage of 9/11".

Indeed. And just who has initiated policies to do this? The very same President that has been in office since 911. Thanks paradox for FINALLY admitting what's been obvious to most Americans for a long time now - the economy is doing just fine and since the main economic policy from this administration has been tax cuts
only someone in a bubble (or echo chamber) wouldn't see the connection.

====================================

I just love it when liberals "talk" tough about terrorism. It always gives me a chuckle. Reminds me of John Edwards saying that he and Kerry would destroy the terrorists. That one actually gave me a good belly laugh.

"Terrorists can hit us in gruesome and horrifying ways that we should always be extremely vigilant in preventing". Like listening to their phone conversations to prevent attacks? NSA?

Basically this thread represents the usual 9/10 view of the world that liberals have:

1 - terrorists aren't really a threat because they cannot occupy land etc. Maybe not, but if they were to hit us with chemical or nuclear weapons then the resulting economic disaster would be WORSE that if they DID occupy our land. It would make the 1930's look like a picnic in comparison.

2 - We should get out of Iraq, stop engaging the terrorists and basically take a defensive position and strike if we are attacked. This is EXACTLY what we did in the 1990's until we were attacked on 911. Since then this country has been on the OFFENSIVE and in being so has disrupted the terrorists ability to strike again.

If you guys want to use this type of philosophy as a campaing slogan, please do.

BTW, only a fool would be naive enough to think we have nothing to fear from terrorists. Neville Chamberlin obviously believed the same thing about Hitler when he declared 'Peace in our time".

In fact the GOP's slogan should be: We are the party of Churchill. The Democrats are the party of Chamerlin. BEcause that's exactly the kind of mindset I'm seeing.

Hmm, troll infection. Must be a bad day for the GOP. I hope they're getting paid well for their efforts. LOL!

Bagley/Carp - great posts. I think we are all basically saying the same thing: If the Dem's campaign like this we should get the hell out of their way and enjoy the ride.

I'm wondering were you planning to combat terrorism and the "fear" of it by passing some sort of "global test"? (John Kerry)

You didn't mention letting the UN take care of most of our problems or demurring to the mullah's as they prepare to nuke Israel....

Can I post your link to the Onion, since I know its just a parody.

Right Pair of ducks? C'mon, you know you can fool the other kool-aid drinkers on this site, but seriously, . . . .

Sorry, don't mean to be so harsh, but I'm watching American Idol with my wife and children and I just can't help but make the comparisons.

Dear David,

Today in Atlanta, "Jimmah" and "Lowry" among others decided the way to honor Coretta King was to demonize President Bush.

They did this at Paul Wellstone's funeral as well.

They have no capacity, no understanding, no imagination of how far left they have gone such that every single minute of their day is "consumed" with their hatred.

I get angry too. I wish "W" had gotten up, gave them the finger and walked out. But then I realize how very pitiful these poor fools are and how the American Public is not blind and just like in Wellstone's case, this will portend badly for them.

I only wish between now and November that a dozen more funerals of other great liberal leaders can be held in which the grace of their convictions can help illustrate the ignorance to which they will go for their religion of politics.

Pity these fools, but never, ever turn your back on them.

carpediem,

"Today in Atlanta, "Jimmah" and "Lowry" among others decided the way to honor Coretta King was to demonize President Bush.

They did this at Paul Wellstone's funeral as well."

And the tactic worked so well for them in the election of Vice President Mondale to the Senate.

....opps, my bad, Mondale lost to Coleman.

Well, Barf, the post and comments were outstanding for a while but then things started stinking badly.

I had to take a longass stroll. The TrollScroll stroll.

I fear, yes I do, but not from Iraq or Iran, nosirree. I fear what's coming out of Washington DC....and that prick Cheney's mouth on the news hour. Had to turn it off, he's such a traitor.

Look...its the ever astonishing carp/bagel troll.

Nice post Paradox. I feel ya on the crosspost to KOS.

I poured my heart out over there once, and got a big yawn, while some whats your fucking problem v3.7 got promoted.

KOS is the blog-daddy, but its a seriously diluted enviorment.

But this and GOWs ode to the destruction of all things republican pretty much says it for me.

"I fear, yes I do, but not from Iraq or Iran, nosirree. I fear what's coming out of Washington DC....and that prick Cheney's mouth on the news hour. Had to turn it off, he's such a traitor."

The terrorists in Iraq hack the heads of civilians on camera (Islamic snuff films, what fun those bastards have...how courageous they are).

The wacko running Iran calls for the destruction of Israel and is pursuing the nuclear weapons to facilitate this action. (Did you hear that recently he ordered the cameras removed from the nuclear sites? It is a fact, not a "BushCo" political ploy...imagine that!)

President Bush and Vice President Cheney will be leaving their (respective) offices in Jauary of 2009.

You fear the later? So much for the "reality-based community."

"Well, Barf, the post and comments were outstanding for a while but then things started stinking badly."

Unable to handle contrary opinions? Pathetic.

Unable to articulate a policy beyond "pray for the best." Dangerous.

"We are not threatened. I am not afraid."

Yes you are threatened, but you are to (willfully) ignorant to identify the threat. Mentally incompetent.

"Look...its the ever astonishing carp/bagel troll."

SnarkyShark! Hey, buddy, how you doing? Decided to come out and play? Oh, what fun! You do have your Mommy's permission...you do, don't you?

2 - We should get out of Iraq, stop engaging the terrorists and basically take a defensive position and strike if we are attacked. This is EXACTLY what we did in the 1990's until we were attacked on 911. Since then this country has been on the OFFENSIVE and in being so has disrupted the terrorists ability to strike again.

Posted by David at February 7, 2006 05:54 PM

****

First of all, nit-wit, we're not engaging terrorists in Iraq. They're in Pakistan, remember? Secondly, 9/11 happened on your watch. You had 9 months to go on the offensive against terrorism, but did you? No, nary a word was spoken about terrorism, your people ignored all warnings, your president chopped brush in some remote location in Texas. So much for an offensive. Now, has to today, have you captured Bin Laden? have you destroyed Al-Queda? You've had 6 years to do it, what's up?

"They're in Pakistan, remember?"

Actually, the Muslim terrorists are everywhere.

"Secondly, 9/11 happened on your watch. You had 9 months to go on the offensive against terrorism, but did you?"

Hmmmm, consider this argument, the Bush administraton was in office for 9 months when 9/11 happended. Subsequent to the passage of 9 months, the Bush administration began a war against radical Islam....which happened to coincide with the events of 9/11. Umm, I am having a hard time with this logic.

(Especially since it appears as though the Bush administration was following the Clinton administration's policy toward Muslim terrorism. I do think that there is enough precedent to stipulate that -- until the attack on 9/11 -- all recent administrations ignoredthe threat.)

Ill-thought-out nit-wit comment by a leftist in 4....3...2...1...

Well, I guess we now know who's really scared of the boogyman, don't we? Flying monkeys have been released from Rove's ass 'cos ol' slouchy got dissed by a dead woman. Pathetic, as usual.

Any idiot who doesn't realize that the "terrorists" are multiplying exponentially due to Bush's policies is ..... an idiot.

(Especially since it appears as though the Bush administration was following the Clinton administration's policy toward Muslim terrorism. I do think that there is enough precedent to stipulate that -- until the attack on 9/11 -- all recent administrations ignoredthe threat.)

Posted by Bagley at February 7, 2006 07:56 PM

****

That's exactly right, nitwit. All administrations are to blame, GOP or Dem, prior to 9/11. That point probably flew over your small skull. The point the prior commenter was feably attempting to make is that somehow this president is more skillful and adept at attacking terrorism than the previous president, simply not true. By the way, I'm not a leftist, I just dislike ignorant people, on both sides of the aisle. I consider you one of those.

"Any idiot who doesn't realize that the "terrorists" are multiplying exponentially due to Bush's policies is ..... an idiot."

I believe that the the reverse is true. What makes you beleve that President Bush's policies are causing the terrorist threat to be "multiplying exponentially?"

This is a clash of civilizations: the West versus the barbarism of Islam. Do tell, would you rather live under an Islamic theocracy or in the Western world. Get onboard with the war on Islamic terrorism or you will be living in an Islamic theocracy....or your children would be.

"That's exactly right, nitwit."

Ahhh, the anticipated nitwit comment: Lefties are so predictable!

" All administrations are to blame, GOP or Dem, prior to 9/11."

Agreed, now please go back and edit -- or annotate, since edits are unavailable -- your post date-stamped February 7, 2006 07:46 PM which accuses only the present administration of not addressing the Islamic threat. (Or simply post another "nit-wit" comment....after all, that is what is to be expected.)

P.S. It seems that SnarkySnark does not want to play: where are you SnarkySnark. I know, waiting until I am gone....right?

Ahhh, the anticipated nitwit comment: Lefties are so predictable!

" All administrations are to blame, GOP or Dem, prior to 9/11."

Agreed, now please go back and edit -- or annotate, since edits are unavailable -- your post date-stamped February 7, 2006 07:46 PM which accuses only the present administration of not addressing the Islamic threat. (Or simply post another "nit-wit" comment....after all, that is what is to be expected.)Posted by Bagley at February 7, 2006 08:47 PM

*****

Exactly what I suspected you'd say, Bagley. All style, no substance. I guess somethings never change.

"Exactly what I suspected you'd say, Bagley. All style, no substance. I guess somethings never change."

Well, at least you can anticipate a logical argument, even if you cannot acknowledge the [same] logical argument.

Now what about annotating the previous post.

SnarkySnark: helloooooo!

Holy Fucking Troll Shit, Batman!

Wow. The trollshit is flyin' tonight! Neville Chamberlain? WTF are you assholes channelling WWII for? See, we WON that war, under a Democrat. You vile little shitstains are WAY out of your league against a two-bit dictator squatting in the desert. Were there brains in your unevolved little minds, you'd scurry away and watch some Nick at Nite. Instead, you prod tigers with bamboo shoots...and you're going to be devoured.

High comedy. You fucking traitors are toast. My freindly advice would be to prepare for, and expect, the worst, because payback is going to be the mother of all bitches.

God Of War,

I assume that the pizza deliveries are a little slow tonight. How are you palnning on making the rent this month?

P.S. What is the reference to WWII, you pathetic little zit-faced coward?

I'm just curious, I wonder just how well our War on Terrorism is going when we have this lovely record of rounding up these folks and throw them in Gitmo?:

"A high percentage, perhaps the majority, of the 500-odd men now held at Guantanamo were not captured on any battlefield, let alone on "the battlefield in Afghanistan" (as Bush asserted) while "trying to kill American forces" (as McClellan claimed).

Fewer than 20 percent of the Guantanamo detainees, the best available evidence suggests, have ever been Qaeda members.

Many scores, and perhaps hundreds, of the detainees were not even Taliban foot soldiers, let alone Qaeda terrorists. They were innocent, wrongly seized noncombatants with no intention of joining the Qaeda campaign to murder Americans.

The majority were not captured by U.S. forces but rather handed over by reward-seeking Pakistanis and Afghan warlords and by villagers of highly doubtful reliability."

http://nationaljournal.com/taylor.htm

Fewer than 20% have ever been Al Qaeda members. As for the remaining 80% or so? Hmmm, Pakistani and Afghan warlord enemies, more than likely.

Nice.

Very fucking nice. Terrific roundup by Dubya's War on Terror, ain't it?

But hold on, dear Bush apologists, it gets better:

Last July, the Pentagon elaborated in a report of an investigation into complaints by FBI agents of abusive interrogation methods. Many of these methods -- such as shackling detainees to the floor for hours in painful positions, keeping them shivering cold during interrogations, grilling them for 16 hours nonstop, waking them up by moving them every few hours, using loud music and strobe lights -- had been officially approved as "humane," the Pentagon report explained.

Bush has also pledged that the Guantanamo detainees are treated "humanely." At the same time, he has stressed, "I know for certain ... that these are bad people" -- all of them, he has implied.

And you Bush apologists believe he's running the domestic spying program with better efficiency?

"Just trust us."

Yeah, because the Afghan warlords who's poppy seed production as well as the Pakistani reward-seekers said so.

Oh, speaking of the spying program and the hearings, I think we can all rest easy because the GOP heads are on the case. The GOP WILL, I repeat WILL get to the bottom of this. How do I know? Check it:

The White House has been twisting arms to ensure that no Republican member votes against President Bush in the Senate Judiciary Committee’s investigation of the administration's unauthorized wiretapping.

Congressional sources said Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove has threatened to blacklist any Republican who votes against the president. The sources said the blacklist would mean a halt in any White House political or financial support of senators running for re-election in November.

"It's hardball all the way," a senior GOP congressional aide said.

http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/Rove2.htm

Ahh, see? Don't you all feel better? We're gonna get to the bottom of this sucker in a bipartisan fashion! Yes sir, push those politics aside for once as we have good hard investigations into the matter.

Oh yeah, please don't pay attention to Arlen Specter refusing to swear in AG Gonzales in the hearings yesterday. Certainly wouldn't want his SWORN testimony on record.

Good ol' Rove. Nothing like having a traitorous fuck pushing around GOP Senators who leaked national security information, outing a covert CIA operative for a political vendetta against one of Bush's dissenters.

Rest easy everyone, Bush's Brain is on the case. He'll make sure we have the nuts and bolts of the situation.

I guess Rove's got another traitorous Republican to put on his blacklist:

" Representative Heather A. Wilson of New Mexico, chairwoman of the House Intelligence Subcommittee on Technical and Tactical Intelligence, said in an interview that she had "serious concerns" about the surveillance program. By withholding information about its operations from many lawmakers, she said, the administration has deepened her apprehension about whom the agency is monitoring and why.

Ms. Wilson, who was a National Security Council aide in the administration of President Bush's father, is the first Republican on either the House's Intelligence Committee or the Senate's to call for a full Congressional investigation into the program, in which the N.S.A. has been eavesdropping without warrants on the international communications of people inside the United States believed to have links with terrorists.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/08/politics/08nsa.html

So let's all let out a collective *sigh*, 'cause the Big Brother neocons are here to protect us all........

Hey carpet, you are right! Paradox didn't mention the U.N. Only you did.

What's the matter, you scared of the U.N. too?

You hold a lot of contempt for people in general, you disregard the efforts of Americans to counter-act the damage to the economy that bush has inflicted with his policies. All those tax cuts did nothing to stimulate the economy because all those tax cuts went to the wealthy, who invested them in hedge funds and yachts and trips to Royal St Andrews and the like. Productivity is up, wages are stagnant, and inventories are still, well, read this from the Federal Reserve: [my bolds]

Over the twelve months of 2005, total industrial production increased 2.8 percent, to 109.8 percent of its 2002 average, while total industrial capacity rose 1.7 percent. The rate of capacity utilization in December, [snip]was 0.3 percentage point below its 1972-2004 average.

Production is ahead of capacity, which implies that we still have excess capacity in our industries. And the closings and cutbacks at Ford and GM only emphasize that.

Here's another point. By stage of process, capacity utilization for industries in the crude stage of processing climbed 2.2 percentage points, to 84.1 percent, but the rate was still about 4 [%] points below its average rate in the first half of the year. Capacity utilization rates for industries in the primary and semifinished stages and for finished goods producers changed little; both rates now stand just above their respective long-run averages.

If those tax cuts served any purpose other than enriching the already rich, capacity would be up, utilization would be up, productivity would be up, wages would be up, everything would be fucking great.

But the only thing up is productivity, which means, for those whose heads aren't firmly implanted up their assholes admiring the view, is that the rich got all the money, and we got the privilege of working more hours for the same pay. What a sweet deal, huh!?!?!

So back to my other point, carpe. It ain't bush, it's the American People, in spite of bush.

So just imagine what it's going to be like when that fucking punk is oughtta here. Go ahead, imagine it, carpe. Coz it's coming sooner than you think.

You can crow and smirk and show your immaturity, but you and your boy are going down, and going down hard.

MisterOpus1,

I blame Karl Rove. Can I be a member of your super-seekrit club now?

"...it's the American People, in spite of bush."

Yes it is! And in the last election the majority voted him back into office!

Is this a great country, or what?

Hi Bagley,

Sure can. Just learn the secret handshake and tell that mean old Right-Wing Washington Times writer not to print stuff that exposes Rove like that.

Oh, and a monthly dues to the DNC are expected as well. I look forward to your initiation, champ.

"Yes it is! And in the last election the majority voted him back into office!

Is this a great country, or what?"

Yup, and the people are lettin' Bush know just how much they think of his current policies, esp. his economic ones according to every poll.

But I wasn't part of that 51% "mandate" majority who were too idiotic and failed to see the economic cliff we're heading towards right now. From the looks of it, they're slowly but surely learning their lesson.

Keep thinking that way baggie, you're gonna go far!

If by majority, you mean a majority of the votes that were presented as counted, but not to include all those illegally purged from the voter files, intimidated, delayed, denied, Diebolded, or simply thrown away, then maybe, no, lets not forget all the votes that simply were not counted. Just between you and me, Ace, Gore won Florida, and Kerry won Ohio, Nevada, Iowa, New Mexico, and probably Florida too.

"Sure can. Just learn the secret handshake and tell that mean old Right-Wing Washington Times writer not to print stuff that exposes Rove like that.

Oh, and a monthly dues to the DNC are expected as well. I look forward to your initiation, champ."

Hah! Not very likely, but now I know what is required. A very good chuckle. Kudos to you.

"... you're gonna go far!"

Already have! Thanks for asking.

"If by majority, you mean a majority of the votes that were presented as counted, but not to include all those illegally purged from the voter files, intimidated, delayed, denied, Diebolded, or simply thrown away, then maybe, no, lets not forget all the votes that simply were not counted. Just between you and me, Ace, Gore won Florida, and Kerry won Ohio, Nevada, Iowa, New Mexico, and probably Florida too."

Keep pushing that line of thinking. At least then you Lefties do not have to face the reality that your ideas are rejected by the voting public. Continue to think that it is criminality in the voting process that keeps you folks out of power. Do not change your way of thinking. Ignore reality. Stay comfortable in your fantasies and excuses.

Good night all. Thaks to the LeftCoaster for the bandwidth.

All administrations are to blame, GOP or Dem, prior to 9/11."

Agreed, now please go back and edit -- or annotate, since edits are unavailable -- your post date-stamped February 7, 2006 07:46 PM which accuses only the present administration of not addressing the Islamic threat. (Or simply post another "nit-wit" comment....after all, that is what is to be expected.)

Posted by Bagley at February 7, 2006 08:47 PM

****

I'll be more than happy to freely admit mistakes were made by the Clinton admimistration regarding terrorism, if you're willing to admit 6 years of mistakes have been made by the Bush administration, including not capturing Bin- Laden or doing anything of substance to destroy Al- Queda. You seem to forget my original comment was only made in response to one of your kind's idiotic remarks. I'd be more than happy to discuss Clinton's mistakes, however you don't seek objectivity, you only seek partisanship, I'm not buying in.

God Of War,

I assume that the pizza deliveries are a little slow tonight. How are you palnning on making the rent this month?

P.S. What is the reference to WWII, you pathetic little zit-faced coward?
Posted by Bagley at February 7, 2006 09:32 PM

*****

Neville Chamberlain = appeasement = WWII you stupid piece of corn-eroded shit.

Fortunately for you, pussy, you'll probably never encounter me in real life...if you did, I think "appeasement" would probably be the first action that entered your cowering mind, at least until you turned tail and ran.

Wouldn't that be fun for me.

That was me up there, teaBagley, you cowardly little prick.

Since Neville Chamberlain and Munich have been mentioned, do all of you Bush Lovers realize that the very week of the Conference, Prescott Bush's banking firm financed the sale of the most important WMD of the time to Nazi Germany?

Brown Brothers Harriman provided the letter of credit for the transfer of 500 tons of Tetra Ethyl Lead from Britain to Germany, even though the transfer was banned. TEL was the critical component for high octane gasoline.

While Neville Chamberlain's "Peace in Our Time" speech on the tarmac was lamentable, what would you have had him do? Nazi Germany was ready for war -- Britain and France were not. There was no way the Western Allies were going to come to the aid of Czechoslovakia, just as there was no way the Eisenhower Administration was going to come to the aid of the Hungarians in 1956. And we won't even talk about GHW Bush calling on the Shia and Kurds to rebel in 1991, only to stand by and do nothing while Saddam slaughtered them.

Actually, the Munich Conference bought time for Britain to re-arm. They went on a crash program to build fighter aircraft, which eventually won the Battle of Britain. If the war had started in 1938, Britain would have been defeated. What would you have had the British PM do?

So beautifully stated, paradox!! How can the Democrats not get this? We have more to fear from fear than we do from terrorists.

To emphasize the contrast between this message of courage and the Republicans' message of cowardice and panic, it is time to start attaching the Republicans' use of fear as a tactic for controlling the citizenry and selling out our liberties, and directly accuse the administration of being so fearful and confused that they are making catastrophic errors in every area of governance.

Thank you for the great message. Now, if only the Democrats (other than Murtha and Feingold) will start to listen and use it.

I think that more and more people are coming to this conclusion. The administration is waging a war with no end in sight, and no end to the powers that they claim in sight. These are a couple hundred foreign criminals, not an army.