Steve: lets HOPE this is a good development.
But (a) an additional law requiring the FISA court to rule on the administration's policy is like requiring fences to rule on the legality of burglary. How many posts on this site over the last several months have suggested that the number of wire tap requests rejected by the FISA court is in the order of dozens out of thousands? Isn't such a proposed law merely a gift to this administration which would allow it to continue its current course but only, now, 'legally.'? (b) Briefings, in which this administration refuses to fully disclose its activities, because elected Representatives and Senators are apparently neither trustworthy nor mature enough to be told the 'whole truth and nothing but the truth,' do NOT constitute advise nor consent nor overview. Isn't claiming they do merely, once again, caving in to the President's claims of absolute power.
Maybe we do need to take baby steps before we begin walking (let alone running) but its really hard to tell whether what is happening is in fact tiny steps or just very vocal sitting on asses.
Steve, great piece, however the admin is coming out with new talking points; we must be very afraid because terrorists are plotting and planning and lurking and they have foiled these plots and plans donchayaknow - preznit just said so.
Our greatest hope now is Feingold, (who has now been elevated to position of god for me, because he is a savior in this dire time of Constitutional crisis and darkness.)
We also have Leahy, who reamed Gonzales good and is ready to fight hard.
Unfortunately, when Abu Gonzales testified, he very clearly would differentiate in his testimony things like "I am only here to talk about the program that the president has talked about publicly." or "I can only talk about the TSP."
This makes it quite clear that there is more than one program.
I believe that even if they have pulled out one piece of some program to brief the Congress Intel Committee on - this is not it and it is not the only "program."
Bottom line: King George will do whatever the fuck he wants until the Republican Congress rises up against it. The Dems are on board and have been for quite some time. My Congressman has now joined in with the "I" word; but he says that they must have every duck in a row, because impeachment would never happen with the Congress as it is now made up.
I would encourage everyone to thank Russ Feingold and to ask their own Senators to join with him.
Feingold seems to be the one of the only people with any understanding of what our Country was founded on, and balls, left.
Posted by Anjha at February 9, 2006 10:27 AMOh, so now the WH is going to "Allow" oversight?
The Rep daily dose of outrage, fear & blind faith. Would that the Dems would be the party of Fearless Leadership ... When if not today?
Anjha is right, there are other datamining programs like Total Information Awareness that are still going on; I want to hear about those.
Posted by iamcoyote at February 9, 2006 10:38 AMI'd be careful with this Steve. Maybe it's just years of dealing with a political opposition so demonstrably incapable of making a principled, apolitical move on ANY issue, but I just can't help but wonder what game House Republicans are playing here.
"Despite the administration's overture, several prominent Republicans said they will pursue legislation enabling Congress to conduct more aggressive oversight of the National Security Agency's warrantless monitoring of Americans' phone calls and e-mails."
This plays directly into what Gonzalez was arguing this week that it's the legislatures' job to make such warrantless monitoring illegal if they want to limit it's scope and provide oversight.
Nevermind that that they've already done that with the FISA law. Nevermind that the U.S. Constitution pretty much spells out that warrants are necessary. The administration wants to continue to pretend that what they were doing constitutional and legal. We just can't allow congress to use that same argument as a jumping off point for addressing this issue.
Congress needs to first determine whether or not the administration broke the current law before they start focusing on the necessity of any additional legislation to address the domestic spying issue.
Posted by DeanVernonWormer at February 9, 2006 10:38 AMIt's bad news for you guys when Bush comes out and tells the American People of specific potential terrorist incidents which our surveillance programs helped to prevent.
There is no other way for Dhimmicrats to stop losing on the national security issue except to get on the right side of it and keep their mouths shut.
Posted by Toby Petzold at February 9, 2006 11:09 AMNope Toby. There is no evidence that his illegal spying scheme prevented this incident.
Don't you think it's kind of funny that he's now telling us? I know you would automatically be duped by whatever Bush says but the rest of us want proof.
How's the search for WMD's in syria going? LOL! When's Valerie Plame going to be indicted? LOL!
And you think you know something about ns? Naw, you're just a racist who thinks that killing muslims is the same as defending the nation.
Aren't you glad that AQ is winning the local elections in Iraq? Ayatollah Khomeni says "praise Toby" and cohorts. They have done what Khomeni never could do-have the Supreme Islamic Revolutionaly Council ruling Iraq! Khomeni fought a war do this and couldn't win but with the help of the Bushies and their pathetic enablers, Khomeni's dream has come true.
I think we should be kicking Jr.'s sorry ass from here to timbuktu for this incredible screw up.
Posted by Ga6thDem at February 9, 2006 11:17 AMIf a real crises devolops the American people are perfectly capable of doing the right thing. We've had 5 years of phony crises and even moderate Republicans have had enough of the neocons. A lot of evil has occurred in the name of security scince 911, but as the truth becomes easier to see, more people are starting to say "enough is enough." No doubt the White House will continue to use fear when and where they can, but reality is what it is and connot be created even by those who think that they're all powerful.
Posted by rlp at February 9, 2006 11:20 AMIt's bad news for you guys when Bush comes out and tells the American People of specific potential terrorist incidents which our surveillance programs helped to prevent.
You believed that story? Come on, shoe bombs after Reid was arrested? That story just doesn't work for me. But the part of the story that you omitted was:
"Their plot was derailed in early 2002, when a Southeast Asian nation arrested a key Al Qaeda operative," he said. "Subsequent debriefings and other intelligence operations made clear the intended target and how Al Qaeda hoped to execute it."
So, somehow a Southest Asian nation arresting an al Quada operative means that Bush's illegal wiretapping program is working? That makes even less cognitive sense than Abu's testimony earlier in the week.
There is no other way for Dhimmicrats to stop losing on the national security issue except to get on the right side of it and keep their mouths shut.
Duly noted.
Posted by dj moonbat at February 9, 2006 11:36 AMIf Bush is telling every one this,by leaking the details he is helping the terrorist. At least that using his logic about the wiretaps.
Posted by Goose1 at February 9, 2006 11:36 AMdj,
If toby wants us to "keep our mouth shut" then we must be winning. Or he's just displaying his bedwetting technique!
I see LA Mayor wasn't informed by WH of the imminent threat.
Posted by mainsailset at February 9, 2006 12:14 PMBush also got the name of the building wrong.
Posted by Goose1 at February 9, 2006 12:37 PMI bet Barbara kicked W's butt when he lied and deceived her like this!!!
Posted by smooth at February 9, 2006 01:02 PMWe are really dealing with children in this administration and their propaganda machine.
Posted by smooth at February 9, 2006 01:03 PMIt's bad news for you guys when Bush comes out and tells the American People of specific potential terrorist incidents which our surveillance programs helped to prevent.
There is no other way for Dhimmicrats to stop losing on the national security issue except to get on the right side of it and keep their mouths shut.
Posted by Toby Petzold at February 9, 2006 11:09 AM
*****
Actually, uberfuck, it's bad for you that Bush has to scream from the mountaintops that the national security apparatus may actually be performing its intended function. See, with competent administration, we just assume the job is getting done. This is BushCorp desperation, pure and simple. You assholes are crashing and burning (pun totally intended). Shoe bombs to bust open cockpit doors? Uh, right. Oh, btw...nowhere in this curiously timed story was illegal warrantless surveillance alleged as a reason for the alleged foiling of this alleged plot. You fucking GOP sheeple are so guillable. Poor dolts.
PS...Libby's fingering The Boss. Uh oh.
Posted by God Of War at February 9, 2006 01:07 PMHeather Wilson's timing I find very suspect,especially since she is polling even with Madrid. She rarely has a Democratic opponent who is a real challege, I think this deeply scared her into action.
Posted by paul r at February 9, 2006 01:39 PMGOW,
It's amazing isnt' it? People like Toby have managed to turn 9/11 into a punchline. Just scream "ooga, booga, Osama" at him and he'll run away and wet the bed.
As soon as little Bush wins his case against google, Toby will be charged with pedophilia because he views porn on the internet. What a tool!
Posted by Ga6thDem at February 9, 2006 01:41 PMOh yup, first headline I read today after work on line...Shrubya details breaking up a terrorist attack plot back in 2002 that was going to take place in LA even though the Mayor of LA was never notified of any threat. Isn't it amazing he just happened to conveniently remember that lil story today in 2006 just when it's revealed he has been breaking the law through illegal warrantly domestic spying.
Did I mention how much I distrust anything that comes out of the mouths of these liars. Did I mention how stoopid one has to be to actually believe anything he states these days. And did I mention it is even more stupid to report this story without mentioning the convenient timing of it all (kind of like those rises and now suddenly absent coded color alert threats that often took place before the election) in the larger context of everything that is occuring.
Posted by emal at February 9, 2006 02:06 PMAnd did I mention it is even more stupid to report this story without mentioning the convenient timing of it all (kind of like those rises and now suddenly absent coded color alert threats that often took place before the election) in the larger context of everything that is occuring.
Fox did their part to make sure that Bush's speech resonated with the voters, they included some...ah....graphics.
What was it that Condi said so many years back? "No one could have imagined....."
Posted by ann at February 9, 2006 03:18 PMNSA is not an issue that you will want to pursue. Stay tuned !!
You might want to consider focusing on the Cheney- National Journal story instead. Or should you??
Dammit-This ain't easy !
Posted by jj at February 9, 2006 03:26 PM
I don't believe a single word that would me believe that the GOP is prepared to honestly investigate the Bush White House. They are ALL swine.
Posted by at February 9, 2006 04:59 PMNSA is not an issue that you will want to pursue. Stay tuned !!
You might want to consider focusing on the Cheney- National Journal story instead. Or should you??
Dammit-This ain't easy !
Posted by jj at February 9, 2006 03:26 PM
*****
You little rodents are more screwed than the rats on the Titanic.
You need to seek some fucking cult deprogramming, shithead. One of these days that kool-aid you're drinking ain't gonna taste right.
I think I'll pursue ALL of these issues, and I think I'll kick the shit out of you fucking rational thought hating fools on every single one of them.
Take your "advice" and gag on it, shiteater.
Posted by God Of War at February 9, 2006 05:45 PMThe Dems need a coordinated and unified message on this: BUSH BROKE THE LAW. No mamby pamby, no equivocating-- Bush broke the law. Every Congressman and every Dem talking head needs to pound this point... Why? First, because its true Bush broke the law. And second because the Repubs are angling at a solution by having the White House take remedial steps without a legal showdown. Only in this way can the message get out that Dems forced the change because it WAS illegal program, as opposssed to the Rove message whcih will be "okay we're tough on terror and we did eveything to keep you safe INCLUDING getting an outdated law changed"... "So not only were we vigilant but we proactive" WOW will that ever hurt if it goes that way... Second point: Dems need to shout out Bush's NSA program is nothing but KGB style "J'ACCUSE" imported here to American. Think about it: Bush alone gets to DECIDE who's a suspect and therfore who he can wiretap (not to mention detain, torture or wisk off to some rendition/torture camp). J'ACCUSE -- I, the Gov't, say at random and for whatever reasons I deem appropriate (and without oversight) Mister Reneck your a "good American" so you have nothing to worry about..... but YOU Mr Towelhead I'm going to be all over your ass, watching and spying and doing whatever I want until I find something on you... No probable cause, no reasonable basis (ie, no grand jury, no magistarate oversight, and no court order/review). Bush and Gov't as sole arbiter of ehose a good American and whose a terror suspect... Now I challenge ANYONE to argue THAT will meet constitutional muster, cause it WON"T!!! Period. AND DEMS should shout this KGB tactic of J'ACCUSE from the mountaintop.
Posted by tjschill at February 9, 2006 05:59 PMI'll believe it when I see it.
Posted by inquiringmind at February 9, 2006 06:05 PMI call bullshit on the library tower crap.
Just more booga, booga, booga.
"I pertected ya, now ya gotta let me do whatever I want cause I'm the great pertector"
See through the bullshit folks.
Posted by angryspittle at February 9, 2006 06:45 PM.... even though the Mayor of LA was never notified of any threat.
Remember all the attention Bloomberg got right before his re-election when there was a threat on NYC? Of course, Bloomberg is a Republican, whereas Villaraigosa is a Dem. So, either they made up the terror plot or they didn't tell Villaraigosa because he's a member of the opposing political party. You decide.
Posted by ann at February 9, 2006 08:54 PMAnn, what we do to apprehend and destroy these people should not be the subject of daily press reports.
Why do you think the Freedom of Information Act is a real-time mandate by which you and the rest of your ilk are entitled to know everything there is to know about our intelligence methods and sources?
Jesus Christ! When are you people going to start rooting for the good guys?
(NB: The good guys are not civil libertarians who fetishize hypothetical losses of freedom in the face of actual dangers that make nonsense of civil liberties.)
Posted by Toby Petzold at February 9, 2006 09:11 PMThe Good Guys, you incessant pissant fuck, are those who defend the Constitution in the face of fearmongering criminals who would void it in pursuit of nefarious ends. Pussies like you who cower in fear and encourage terrorists are a fucking liability to us all.
Why do you hate the Constitution and America? Was your father abusive? Was your mother a whore?
Why, Toby? Why?!?
Posted by God Of War at February 9, 2006 09:19 PMDatamining? Are you guys serious? Every ass in this forum has been jointly owned by any number or combination of financial and commercial institutions, ISPs, cookie-planting websites, credit reporting agencies, and ten layers of government for decades.
Why are you picking this time of all times to admit to the world that you are an information slave and know nothing about the terms of your own confinement? It's low.
Posted by Toby Petzold at February 9, 2006 09:21 PMGod of War, you lessen this blog by your presence. No one in here with any intellectual honesty would deny that.
Posted by Toby Petzold at February 9, 2006 09:24 PMAnn, what we do to apprehend and destroy these people should not be the subject of daily press reports
In respect to the capture in Southeast Asian, *we* did nothing. That was the result of another government completely - I might add that we don't know which country....hm...wonder why not?
My point, which you seeemed to have overlooked, is that when there was an alleged terror attack planned on LA, no one bothered to mention it to their mayor. When there was an alleged terror attack on NYC, Bloomberg was all over the press about it. I think it's is rather apparent why: either Bush was lying today, or he only supplies information to mayors about threats to their cities if they are Republican.
You are the only one who metioned press reports, I was talking about informing the leader of the threatened city.
Posted by ann at February 9, 2006 09:31 PM
Who cares if the Mayor of Los Angeles knew about it? My point is that not everybody gets to know every damned thing as soon as they feel like it. What the hell difference does it make to you whose police or security apparatus arrested the clowns who plotted to knock down that skyscraper? Are you going to do something about it? Would it change your plans or occur to you to care about it one way or the other five seconds after you are told?
Get serious. You're not in any need to know.
Posted by Toby Petzold at February 9, 2006 10:27 PMYou're not in any need to know.
I never said that I was, but the mayor of LA was most definitely in a need to know situtation. The mayor is the one leading the city, not the far-away and completely removed from reality federal government. As I said, this brings into question whether there actually was a threat or whether BushCo was once again playing partisan politics.
Posted by ann at February 10, 2006 06:14 AMSteve, you're great, but I think you might be wanting too much out of this.
Wilson's goal for oversight is only to take the matter into the intelligence committees, which by nature are secretive and not open to public review. This way, she can tell us to trust her, she's heard the arguments, and they're good enough. Of course, we'll never know: the proceedings are all in secret.
Tie this into other parts of the story, like Rove's supposed arm-twisting of repubs. On one side is the team's gotta stay together, on the other is a congresswoman who has otherwise only carried water for this admin finally breaking out. Too perfect.
The 9/11 whitewash occurred in large part because of the limited openness of the hearings. This will be just another example.