Is it possible that Hillary's health care might have also helped republicans in the long run?
Posted by TIKI AL at February 17, 2006 12:01 AMIt's Friday, and maybe a laugh will ease your troubled mind as we go into the weekend.
Cheney Shoots Three Presidents in Oval Office Mishap by Steve Martin
Vice President Dick Cheney, while hunting wild geese in the Rose Garden, accidentally shot President Bush twice, once in the heart and once in the head. "I didn't really shoot the President twice," said Cheney. "The second time I shot him, I was president. It wasn't until my third shot, where I accidentally shot my own foot, that I had shot the president twice.
I was officially injured and unable to govern, when Dennis Hastert came in, and stepped on the butt handle of the rifle causing it to swing up like a rake and shoot his hair off. I guess I'm officially responsible for that too, meaning I shot the acting president for a total of three occupants of the oval office. I'm not proud, but it is a record."
Posted by Judith at February 17, 2006 03:47 AMI hope bu$h's poularity goes down even further after his 2.2% raise for the troops, the lowest in 12 years, makes the rounds in the media. A fine way to "support our troops".
I would think the Dems could win on the healthcare platform by itself. Or even a simple domestic agenda.
Posted by bbtb at February 17, 2006 05:12 AMBut in order to win on healthcare, the Dems would actually have to talk about it. I'm not sure they have that kind of courage.
Posted by Sharon at February 17, 2006 05:26 AMWell how about a Domestic Security agenda.
Anything, or do they really want to win?
Posted by bbtb at February 17, 2006 05:37 AMI have just completed pulling together my '05 tax information for the accountant, and I can tell you that when I see what I paid out for health care, it blew my mind. Millions of people are going to be confronted again with the cost of medical coverage while doing their taxes. I agree that this is an issue that need to be addressed, since Bush has never confronted, in five years, the growing expense to American families.
Posted by Judith at February 17, 2006 05:47 AMJudges Critical of Mubarak Lose Immunity
By THE NEW YORK TIMES
Published: February 17, 2006
CAIRO, Feb. 16 — Three judges who often criticize President Hosni Mubarak's administration and who demanded an investigation into accusations of misconduct in the recent parliamentary elections have been stripped of their judicial immunity and face interrogation by state security prosecutors, state-run news media and the judges said Thursday.
The move is widely seen as a government warning against pressing to expand the independence of the judiciary. "They took such measures to silence us," said one of the judges, Hesham al-Bastawissi, deputy chief justice of the Court of Cassation, the highest appellate court in Egypt. "But we will not be silenced. Egypt deserves democracy, freedom, and free, transparent and fair elections."
The Office of the State Security Prosecutor said the prosecutor was not available for comment, and Magdi Radi, the senior government spokesman, referred questions to the judges themselves. On Sunday, the upper house of Egypt's Parliament approved a presidential decree to postpone local elections for two years, which analysts described as an attempt to curb the progress of the Muslim Brotherhood.
Looks like someone's been taking plays from the GOP handbook.
I Think We're Missing Something Here
if we're talking about healthcare, let's not forget the Medicare prescription drug disaster. BushCo's "competence" in all its glory.
Posted by benjoya at February 17, 2006 06:46 AMI have just completed pulling together my '05 tax information for the accountant, and I can tell you that when I see what I paid out for health care, it blew my mind. Millions of people are going to be confronted again with the cost of medical coverage while doing their taxes. I agree that this is an issue that need to be addressed, since Bush has never confronted, in five years, the growing expense to American families.
A-frickin'-men.
The President normally takes a hit in the tax season, but this one could be (I won't say will be) worse because of the medical bills people are compling, as well as the usual tax-filing-roulette.
Posted by idiosynchronic at February 17, 2006 07:27 AMHealth Care? Benefits? How're we 'posed to compete?
...and some of the comments are extremely good too...
I wrote in a comment thread recently that I had one of my prescriptions rejected by my insurance company because 'I had exceeded my quota'. Just the other day, I stood in line behind a mother of three who had all of her prescriptions - hers and her kids - rejected by her insurance. No one could or would tell her why.
I find it especially interesting that situations like this are becoming much more frequent now that the Medicare bill has gone into effect! Was there a rider that applied those provisions to all of us, whether on Medicare or not?
I wouldn't be at all surprised!
Posted by pessimist at February 17, 2006 07:47 AMJust a quick note before I dash off to take a good long shower.
I popped into Free Republic to check in on the "Secret Saddam Tapes" issue. The glee at the thought of audio tapes of Saddam giving specifics of his illicit weapons stockpiles and ongoing programs was palpable in their speculation about what gems the tapes would contain. Alas, seems that they've grown rather silent on the issue since the actual tapes have been released. Some even bothered to look into the background of John Loftus.
I'm wondering if crow will be on the lunch menu in Freeperville today?
Anyway, now off to a much needed shower.
Posted by snark at February 17, 2006 07:57 AM(comment and subsequent comment by this commenter deleted by host)
I have just completed pulling together my '05 tax information for the accountant, and I can tell you that when I see what I paid out for health care, it blew my mind. Millions of people are going to be confronted again with the cost of medical coverage while doing their taxes. I agree that this is an issue that need to be addressed, since Bush has never confronted, in five years, the growing expense to American families.
Posted by Judith at February 17, 2006 05:47 AM
*****
I've never had a serious health issue, haven't seen the inside of an ER in ten years, knock on wood...I'm a young, caucasian male, self-employed, don't smoke, stay in good enough shape to peel off a marathon whenever...so I'm an insurer's wet dream. Now the rub: My health insurance premiums were so fucking abhorrent that I'm saving money with an HSA and just paying out of pocket. THAT is how bad the system in this country is. I cannot imagine what it's like for somebody who's had health problems.
The entire goddamn system is a scam. You're insurable until you get sick, and then you're screwed. The insurers have an incentive to not cover those who need health care the most, and when they do need it, not to pay; the doctors have an incentive to charge like hell while the gettin's good; and the politicians have an incentive to avoid being labeled "socialists." So who's getting fucked with the serrated broomstick? American business and the American taxpayer. You and me.
Posted by God Of War at February 17, 2006 08:12 AMSo ROOF, what your explanation?
Posted by goose1 at February 17, 2006 08:27 AMActually, GoW, most Doctor's are not able to charge like hell. Insurance companies dictate to the Doctors what the rates will be. If a doctor charges $80 for an office visit, if he is on the insurance companies plan, then the insurance company will tell the doctor "no, you only get $50 for an office visit."
This forces the Doctors to have to see more patients in order to earn what the doctor would have if they were just paid their going rate.
In addition, those who say "HSA will allow people to 'shop around' for cheaper doctors" is a bunch of crap. If you are a private payer vs. someone with insurance, then you pay the $80 vs the adjusted insurance rate.
Insurance companies will cut the percentage paid if you do not see a doctor on the plan. This has two effects; the patient sometimes has to see a doctor who is not as good or who was not the preference of the referring doctor and doctors are forced to sign up on insurance plans where the rates are cut by 40-60% and therefore have to cut the quality of their care by seeing twice as many patients.
Many high quality physicians are starting to refuse to be on any insurance plans. What this means is that the patient has to pay out of pocket, the doctors rates, and then get reimbursed the 20% or whatever from the insurance company.
This leads to lower quality care, people avoiding preventative medicine, more people ending up in emergency rooms - especially at public facilities - where we all pay.
Insurance companies most often no longer pay for well-baby visits or vacinations (it is so much cheaper to pay for an iron lung for a polio victim than a $10 shot!)
So, today I go to get a CT Scan. MRI would have been preferable - but my doctor admits MRI is more expensive and he is attempting to help me to not have more debt. Another physician of mine talks to me on the phone and recommends that I do not come to see him unless it is an emergency - because he does not want me to have to pay for it; he is not on my plan, ins co pays zero.
Sometimes generic drugs are just as good as brand name. However, if you are a patient that has proven that your body needs the brand name drug, you are SOL - ins co pays only for the generic.
Doctors do not dictate health care in this Country - the insurance companies do.
In this formula, the patient suffers.
Posted by Anjha at February 17, 2006 08:31 AM...he wants to convince voters that the real problem facing the health care system this year is that we regular people simply use too much health care.
Well, if you have to pay through the nose for health coverage, you want to get your money's worth. If health care wasn't such a huge chunk of everyone's budget, perhaps they wouldn't feel the need to use health care so much just to get like they've actually gotten something for their money.
I know that since I was forced to take a more expensive PPO because my doctor couldn't accept the HMO anymore, and when my empoyer increased my contribution to the plan, I started going to specialists for various problems rather than going to my GP. If I've paid for it, I feel I have a right to use it.
Posted by ann at February 17, 2006 08:51 AMann, PPO's are better, I feel. We chose that option when the Teamsters gave us that choice.
Only problem they dropped me when I became 100% disabled by the VA. VA appt's take about 4-6 months of scheduling. No walk-ins allowed unless I complain or go to the Emergency Room. So my options are limited. At least my prescriptions are covered. The VA figures if we can just medicate the sympton, they don't have to treat or cure the problem.
Actually, GoW, most Doctor's are not able to charge like hell. Insurance companies dictate to the Doctors what the rates will be. If a doctor charges $80 for an office visit, if he is on the insurance companies plan, then the insurance company will tell the doctor "no, you only get $50 for an office visit."
This forces the Doctors to have to see more patients in order to earn what the doctor would have if they were just paid their going rate.
*****
You nailed it. I've got two brothers who are doctors. They might hate insurance companies more than any of us do. They almost have to inflate prices to get paid. And after the hellish med school gauntlet, doctors deserve to get paid. Many of them are now purchasing their own diagnostic/lab operations as a way to make more money instead of outsourcing the tests. One of my brother's groups, for example, recently purchased their own MRI because they figured out that they could make more money doing the procedures in-house. And I don't blame them...they get fucked over hard by insurers. I won't even get into the inane arguments doctors are forced to have with 24-year old insurance employees with Communications degrees in order to make sure procedures are covered.
It all leads to a vicious cycle: Doctors and hospitals end up charging the uninsured, who already cannot pay, full price.
Bottom line, though, is that its the health care professionals' fault for not taking the bull by the horns and allowing the insurance industry to dictate the practice of medicine. They need to organize, drop their obsession with trial lawyers (note to docs: quit committing so much malpractice and you won't have a problem), and focus their fire on the insurance industry, HMOs, and the BushCorp bastards who place the health of the insurance industry over the health of America and its medical professions.
As far as Hillarycare goes, here's how I know that was an awful plan: The commission that came up with it was devoid of even one solitary physician. Unbelievable.
Posted by God Of War at February 17, 2006 09:21 AMIt would be great if the docs could organize and do that, but the ins companies are far more powerful.
I worked in the autobody industry for years. Same thing.
Insurance companies dictated rates, what they would and would not pay for, how the repairs were done. Autobody co was responsible to guarantee repairs and would get fucked if the insurance companies cut corners caused re-do of the repairs. Autobody lost money, insurers made money.
Also, insurance cos illegally dictate to customers where they can go for repairs. This is against state law - but they would present it as "who was on their plan."
The autobody industry was screwed because big insurance was such a monopoly that if the autobody co wanted to survive they had to sign up to be on the ins co plans.
Vicious cycle.
However, the co with the big money wins: Insurance.
Posted by Anjha at February 17, 2006 09:31 AMWell, money doesn't grow on trees. If the doctors deserve to get paid, then you have to be willing to pay higher prices for your health care.
It's really that simple.
Posted by muckdog at February 17, 2006 09:56 AMSo muck I guess your for raising Taxes to pay for the WAR.
Posted by goose1 at February 17, 2006 09:58 AMIt's often helpful to look at the past to figure out why we are in the position we're in--does anybody have some backgroud, facts and figures on the rise of HMOs, their slice of the $ pie, and the results on health costs?
I was much younger then, but I seem to recall many pie-in-the-sky speeches about the wonders of the HMO, but which never seemed to come true, except if you're a member of the Frist family...
It would also be interesting to return to the memory hole and revisit how the Republicans dragged down the Clintons' attempt at health care reform...
My gut feeling, however, is that facts and figures don't matter here, because the Rethugs will use their class warfare methods to stir up Joe and Jane Wingnut into believing that their hard earned dollars are being taxed away to pay for welfare queens' luxury hospital suites, and welfare kings' viagra prescriptions.
Posted by leftAhead at February 17, 2006 10:01 AMBTW, while American children cannot get access to healthcare, well-baby visits, vaccinations or decent schools - The Warlords are touting success in the immunizations of all Iraqi children and the new schools being built there. (Paid for by you and me.)
It is good to immunize those children I suppose, before they are blown to bits on the way to their new schools.
Posted by Anjha at February 17, 2006 10:07 AMWell, money doesn't grow on trees. If the doctors deserve to get paid, then you have to be willing to pay higher prices for your health care.
It's really that simple.
Posted by muckdog at February 17, 2006 09:56 AM
*****
Why do you hate American businesses?
You stupid little fuck. Do you know how much of your health-care dollar goes to administrative overhead (read: waste) due to insurers and their practices? Try about 20%.
Posted by God Of War at February 17, 2006 10:28 AMann, PPO's are better, I feel.
bbtb, nothing changed for me when I went to the PPO except my costs. I get the same care from my GP with the PPO as I did when I had the HMO - it's with the same insurance company.
But last year when I was having knee problems, I went to an orthopaedic rather than my GP, and found out I have chrondomalacia - something my GP could have told me. When I was getting rashes last year, I went to a dermatologist rather than my GP and it was contact dermatitis, something my GP could have told me. It ended up costing me the same co-pay but BC/BS had to pay more to the providers because I went to specialists when I really didn't need to. But because I'm paying more for a PPO, I feel I should get my money's worth and will go to specialists even when it's probably not necessary.
Posted by ann at February 17, 2006 10:47 AMBizarre - just received a message saying that my post was being held until verified. New feature?
Posted by Anjha at February 17, 2006 10:57 AMann, That is the point. If my son is sick with a special condition and had a HMO, I would have to ask permission from the HMO for him to be treated. With the PPO I don't have to wait for a specialist to see him. He is deathly allergic to Peanuts/Peanut Butter, an HMO could have waited for me to see an Allergist.
Posted by bbtb at February 17, 2006 11:12 AMWith the PPO I don't have to wait for a specialist to see him.
bbtb, I think many people seek the care from specialists that they could have gotten from their GPs and I think this is a problem. When I had the HMO, I never had to wait to see an allergist, I just needed a referal and those aren't difficult to obtain.
Posted by ann at February 17, 2006 11:44 AMWell, money doesn't grow on trees. If the doctors deserve to get paid, then you have to be willing to pay higher prices for your health care.
No, Muckprick. Its all about insurance companies maintaining their margins (and yes, look at admin costs of private insurance companies vs. Medicare overhead). Again its not about real care, its about keeping your precious Wallstreet (and executives) happy.
How do insurance companies make a good portion of their money? They take all the premiums and invest it in the market. When the market sucks, premiums go up (yes, an oversimplification for sake of time.. but you get the idea). To justify it, they throw out the malpractice strawman.
Oh and the other strawman argument about a single payer system that it takes forever to see a doctor? It currently takes me aobout 4 to 6 weeks to get into my (or any other) Rheumatologist. For a general health issue I can get into a doctor today, provided I don't demand to see, well you know, my doctor.
Posted by Simp at February 17, 2006 12:16 PMAnd in the news:
Dick Cheney stunned the competition today in Turin, Italy, taking the gold medal for the combined lager-fest and rotational lawyer peppering competition. Although he candidly admits "I'm a bit out of shape", he said he has years of experience to rely on. "I simply had a beer for lunch, and was good to go. I shot on instinct rather than actually aiming".
Mr. Cheney scored substantial style points (200) in that his target was a friend and major Republican donor, which is considered more difficult than if the target were Nancy Pelosi or Barbara Boxer, which would have been worth a maximum of 20 points in his case.
Cheney beat out an extremely competitive field, including Samuel Alito, Elmer Fudd Jr., and Saddam Hussein, who was a last-minute entry on special leave.
Mr. Alito scored well, knocking back a six-pack before taking out an ACLU lawyer at 50 feet.
Elmer Fudd Jr. was disqualified after testing positive for Jack Daniels, a banned substance in this competition. He retaliated by peppering the judge who disqualified him before being taken away by politzi.
Mr. Hussein managed twelve beers, and peppered his lead defence lawyer, whom he regarded as biased, and a potential witness at his ongoing trial. He was penalized 10 points for this infraction.
Following the event, all peppered lawyers were conveyed to the best hospital taxpayers could afford in Mr. Cheney's vice-ambulance. A large celebration is planned for Sunday when Mr. Cheney returns from Italy. This was his first medal in the fairly new competition, but he vows "it won't be my last. I am having special executive powers drawn up to make sure of that".
Posted by tempus at February 17, 2006 12:45 PMLOL. Did anyone see the press conference with Mr. Whittington? What a hoot! B/C has now established that all victims have to apologize to their attackers. So all those people who lost their daughters to Ted Bundy should have apologized for causing him stress according to the GOP. Can you believe these idiots. They seem to just get stupider and stupider.
Posted by Ga6thDem at February 17, 2006 12:49 PMI think Whittingtons comment's explain how all the trolls think.
Posted by goose1 at February 17, 2006 12:54 PMHonestly guys.
If you were hunting with your buddies and one of them accidentally shot you, seriously but not on the edge of death seriously, what would you say to the media if they had been giving your buddy grief in the press for a week?
What would you expect the old codger to say? I feel really sorry for myself? Cheney's a bastard? Or do you think he knows Cheney didn't intend to shot him?
He said exactly what I would expect him to say. You guys portraying him as a GOP dupe is just adding insult to injury.
Posted by snark at February 17, 2006 01:18 PMAnd in other news;
Guess what venue Bush has chosen in Florida to give a speech on the "War on Terra"?
A. A local Democratic party headquarters.
B. A free medical clinic for the uninsured.
C. An public venue open to all interested citizens.
D. McGill Air Force Base.
Posted by snark at February 17, 2006 01:30 PMAnd I hate to beat a dead dog but;
RE: The "Secret Saddam Tapes" [cue ominous music track]
A spokeswoman for John Negroponte, director of national intelligence, said information contained in the transcriptions of the tapes was already known to intelligence officials.
"Intelligence community analysts from the CIA, and the DIA reviewed the translations and found that, while fascinating, from a historical perspective the tapes do not reveal anything that changes their post-war analysis of Iraq's weapons programs nor do they change the findings contained in the comprehensive Iraq Survey group report," she said in a statement.
The only thing that I find facinating about this story is that Geraldo Rivera wasn't involved in it.
Guess we won't be seeing dipshit for a while. Steve there is a good choice for stupid troll.
Posted by goose1 at February 17, 2006 01:57 PMSee this one from the WSJ about Chinese car exports?
One Chinese manufacturer, Chery Automobile Co., sold 18,000 cars in overseas markets. Chery's best-selling export model is a four-door compact known as the QQ, with a price tag that averages between $7,000 and $8,000.
Holy smokes!
Posted by muckdog at February 17, 2006 02:02 PMhis 2.2% raise for the troops,
We'll get that back by raising how much they have to pay for their Chinese made bullets.
with a price tag that averages between $7,000 and $8,000.
It'll never sell here until it becomes the size of a box truck, is uglier than shit, and gets 8 miles to the gallon.
And how do they do it? $3.00 an hour and no benies to the workers. God, ain't free enterprise great! Wait till they're made in Myanmar for $1.50 an hour! Fucking auto unions, when will they cut workers wage to become more competitive? These workers should be willing to live in $50.00 a month apartments to boost corporate profits.
You stupid little fuck. Do you know how much of your health-care dollar goes to administrative overhead (read: waste) due to insurers and their practices? Try about 20%.
Add another 30-40% to cover those who aren't insured and use the ER for services, and it starts to add up.
I still doubt any system that covers you with insurance, yet causes 50% of the bankruptcies every year. That's not insurance.
We're just regressing to the mean, P-Dippy. Those other nationalities are just as smart and hard-working as Americans. We've just been borrowing their money and handing out higher salaries, benefits, and spending it on defense. It's not really our money anyways.
Posted by muckdog at February 17, 2006 07:17 PMAnjha, your comment got caught by our blacklist software because it had a lot of links in it. I've just approved the comment and now perhaps Muckdog can take some time to view your charts.
Posted by Mary at February 17, 2006 08:59 PMoops, thanks Mary.
Muck, it is in "Ides of March" at 10:55 am
Posted by Anjha at February 18, 2006 10:16 AM