Saw the MSNBC video of lisa meyers balancing the damning video with a transcript from the next day of "heckuva job" telling us how many questions bush had asked him that morning. Mind you, a transcript of somebody telling us what somebody else had done.
Isn't that what they call "hearsay," and not really proof of anything?
Journalism, it's hard work.
Posted by Duckman GR at March 2, 2006 06:30 AMI'm not sure it's a big deal that he was made aware. The fact is, "Bush knew," as opposed to "Bush didn't know shit," really isn't a meaningful distinction.
Posted by dj moonbat at March 2, 2006 06:41 AMEspecially since there were no blowjobs involved.
Posted by snark at March 2, 2006 06:46 AMApparently your marriage, career and friendships have survived your inability to comprehend the difference between “topped” (which was widely predicted) and “breached” (which was not).
Posted by j.west at March 2, 2006 06:47 AMBush himself said he was not aware, that's the lie:
"I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees..."
Yet he was told right in the video: "I don't think any model can tell you with any confidence right now whether the levees will be topped or not but that is obviously a very, very grave concern,".
The man is a rank liar.
Topped, the water goes over, breached, the water goes through, the end result is precisely the same, can we get some smarter trolls than these utter morons, please?
Posted by paradox at March 2, 2006 06:50 AM“Topped, the water goes over, breached, the water goes through, the end result is precisely the same”
The end result is the same?
All I’m saying is that you should try to get a basic grasp of the facts before posting.
Rightwing MSM is remarkably creative in their ability to spin and couch Little Boots impeachable offenses.
Like FOXNews(GOP-TV)'s Neil Cavuto floating the idea the civil war unfolding in Iraq is a "creation of the media?"
FOXNews(GOP-TV) perfected the invented reality/propaganda technique that borrows heavily from the Soviet politboro, but CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, and NBC have quickly caught up.
Posted by Christopher at March 2, 2006 06:56 AMwest, I see you can't honor a bet,but I never thought you would. I guess it depend on what you r definition of is is.
Posted by goose1 at March 2, 2006 06:58 AMgoose you beat me to it! it's all semantics and a boring game at that.
Posted by ann at March 2, 2006 07:04 AMAnd the NYTimes on-line does not even have the story on its front page, it's that unimportant (but there is a video of Bush's India visit)!!
Buried under in National section, way down, you have a rather vague, harmless-sounding headline: "Unaware as Levees Fell, Officials Expressed Relief". Imagine that, the story broke yesterday providing a smoking gun that Bush lied, yet ....
Goose,
I’m perfectly willing to sit back and stay out of the opinion business, but if it’s honor you’re looking for, at least have the honesty to correct the facts of the situation.
Credibility is all about getting it right.
Oh, c'mon u.jest, everytime somebody proves you wrong (and I have personally had the honor several times), you just put on your Magic Bluster Suit and change the subject.
Also, nobody actually cares about this distinction between "topped" and "breached" that you seem to think is so crucial to preserving Cuckoo Bananas's reputation (such as it is). You go right ahead, trying to explain to people how it makes all the difference in the world. When they're rolling their eyes, and coming up with lame reasons why they need to be someplace else, maybe you'll start to get it.
Posted by dj moonbat at March 2, 2006 07:11 AMWest, Did you read what paradox wrote? He had both quotes. Fact bush lied, fact you lied when you said you would not post anymore. live with it and go away.
Posted by goose1 at March 2, 2006 07:11 AMWorse than the MSM's sin is that of Congress. They are charged with balancing the powers and keeping in check just this kind of executive, and they have failed repeatedly. They enable as surely as the press, with even more disastrous results.
Posted by Via at March 2, 2006 07:18 AMIt may not be headline news everyday but look at bu$h'$ declining numbers. It's been a continual culmination process since Katrina. Every week it's something negative, something about his ineptness.
The regular hard working people might not catch everything but they catch enough every 2 weeks or so. Soon they catch on.
I know of 3 hardcore bu$h supporters that have turned on him in the last 3 months. They actually appreciate me for keeping them updated and informed on the latest lie and scandal. Before they would argue, defend his sorry ass and they would be mad as hell for me pointing out the negative.
The latest issue on the port deal is a real back breaker. They love their Lou Dobbs. I do appreciate Lou for keeping bu$h and the republi-con controlled congress in the headlights. I just think he goes overboard on his immigration issues.
As the administration proceeds to internally implode around bu$h and people dying in Iraq it will be something negative every week in the news and soon people will realize he is not the second coming.
If only we can sway the mind of Dobson's and his ilk's flocks!
Suprise, west is wrong again. Read the section on leaving Breach.
http://www.haestad.com/library/books/fmras/floodplainonlinebook/javascript/wwhelp/wwhimpl/common/html/wwhelp.htm?context=Floodplain_with_HEC_RAS&file=Floodplain%20with%20HEC-RAS-23-08.html
Posted by goose1 at March 2, 2006 07:31 AMdj,
“Also, nobody actually cares about this distinction…..”
I expected better from you. Is this how you keep justifying things in the “reality based community”?
How about “dunk” and “drown”? They both concern water and both start with “d”, but is there a difference? Could it be that one is momentary and unpleasant as opposed to permanent and fatal?
“You go right ahead, trying to explain to people how it makes all the difference in the world.”
My point was that I shouldn’t have to. You, of all people in this tin-foil hat land, should be the one reining in your fellow moonbats when they post something so obviously false.
The White House is tellling us that Bush was "fully engaged." Is this really better for him than his daddy's "I was out of the loop"?
Posted by Brian Boru at March 2, 2006 07:45 AMwait a minute.
this person "J. West"
who comments above.
i thought when i first read his/her comment on the difference between "topping" and "breeching" a levee
that he was mocking the lawyerly, weasling way that the white house explains bush's lies.
but my god
the fool is serious!
he himself is engaging in the lawyerly weasling i thought he was lampooning?
he's defending the presdient's lie on the basis of a distinction without a difference.
doesn't he understand that his own words mock himself?
are there people this lacking in self-awareness in this world?
apparently so.
a foolish loyalty is the hallmark of little (right-wing) minds.
(with apologies to r. waldo)
2001-2006:FIVE WASTED YEARS
West,Since you won't read the link. I will print it for you.You are wrong. Just admit it and go away.
Levee Breaching
A breach of levees or earth embankment defenses is most likely to occur where the levee or defense is structurally weaker (for instance in older, less well consolidated banks), or more likely to be overtopped by water levels.
There are three common mechanisms for levee breach initiation. The first is overtopping of the levee by high water levels and subsequent downward erosion, the second is seepage or piping through the bank (exacerbated, for instance, by rodent holes), and the third is mass wasting by slumping or sliding (see Morris and Hassan, 2003 and Chen and Anderson, 1987). These mechanisms have very different characteristics. An overtopping breach is likely to happen quickly, as the result of a high, peaked flood hydrograph, whereas a seepage or mass wasting failure is likely to take a long time to develop, occurring during a longer, less peaky flood hydrograph. Any particular failure event could consist of a combination of these mechanisms.
Posted by Goose1 at March 2, 2006 07:49 AMWe have become a dictatorship. the gop killed this country and the dems watched. we have got to fight both parties - they are both our enemy.
Posted by jj at March 2, 2006 07:54 AMMy point was that I shouldn’t have to. You, of all people in this tin-foil hat land, should be the one reining in your fellow moonbats when they post something so obviously false.
Posted by j.west at March 2, 2006 07:34 AM
*****
You fucking trolls never could honor a bet.
The accepted remedy for such a breach is a crowbar to the kneecaps
Posted by God Of War at March 2, 2006 07:57 AMThe point is that there was MAJOR concern about a storm of catastrophic and historic proportions on its way - about a "very, very grave" issue. What was that issue? The levees and their inability to contain the water! To say that nobody "anticipated a breech of the levees" is either an outright, bold-faced, unadulterated LIE, or the man really is a moron. Face it. Those are the facts. Bu$h was repeatedly warned, (he had 5 days notice!) about a catagory 5 hurricane approaching an area where the levees were only designed to withstand a catagory 3. Now what kind of idiot does not immediately begin to prepare for a possible breach? Nobody anticipated the breech? Nobody who had been to the pre-hurricane briefings? Nobody watching the hurricane as it approached via satellite on the National Weather Service? Nobody who had recieved distress calls and emergency requests from heads of state? C'mon, for God's sake. With all this going on, the best Bu$h could come up with was, "Vacation time!!". Boot the bastard, and West, wake up, for your own good man.
Posted by oppressmenot at March 2, 2006 07:58 AMI thought Farrakhan said that the levees were blown up?
Posted by muckdog at March 2, 2006 08:14 AMI listen to Bob Rivers in the morning. He is a Republican and he stated the other day he is disgusted with Bush and will never cheerlead for him again.
He also said that Democrats suck at keeping a scandal going. He said if Gore had shot an old man in the face, the Pubs would never stop hounding him until he resigned.
Leave it to muckdog to introduce race baiting to the debate.
Posted by snark at March 2, 2006 08:19 AMFarrakhan? You trot that old false representation chestnut out?
Why don't you say something more droll like, "Teddy Kennedy probably drove his car through the levees. He's got a penchant for drowning people, after all."
Posted by idiosynchronic at March 2, 2006 08:21 AMhe's defending the presdient's lie on the basis of a distinction without a difference.
doesn't he understand that his own words mock himself?
ujest isn't much into intellectual honesty. It's about arguing for the sake of arguing and hoping to dilute the reality that once again, Bush lied. And if a Democrat was attempting to make the same semantics distinction he is, he'd call them an intellectual elitist.
I thought Farrakhan said that the levees were blown up?
Posted by muckdog at March 2, 2006 08:14 AM
*****
Apparently you're the only one here paying any mind to old Louis the Bloviator Extraordinaire.
Interesting...
Posted by God Of War at March 2, 2006 08:47 AMRemeber back, in the pre-911 before time, when the whole government was going to come crashing down because the president got a blowjob from somebody who was not his wife? And how that was going to "set the standard of morality" lower? How we couldn't trust any Democrat any more because of how the evil KKKlintoon committed adultery?
Isn't it funny how the culture of corruption, lies, hypocrisy, and deceit emanating from the Repugnicant controlled government/judiciary/media doesn't seem to be doing the same thing to our moral fiber? Unless you actually have to live in the real world and deal with todays' corporate mindset, or the faith-based government services we supposedly get, or the wonderful new opportunities avaialable to the common man when interacting with the authorities.
Amazing how that works, innit?
Posted by (: Tom :) at March 2, 2006 08:50 AMGoose1 - thanks for the definition. Pretty well ends the illusions of argument for J West.
JWest - how do you get anything done in a day, or do you? This micromanagement circular argument thing you keep at reminds me of the ad, "help me I've fallen and I can't get up" Hell, it's time for you see the forrest through the trees here and stop asking people here to pick you back up.
Excellent summation oppressmenot.
Nero Jr was warned that serious flooding, standing water in the streets, could occur. He reflexively lied about it after the catastrophe, which is how he deals with most of his gross errors and disastrous incompetence.
As though the National Weatherservice head was trying to get across to the Littlest Emperor that only limited nuisance flooding from levy "over topping" was likely, but not serious catastrophic flooding from "breaching"---yeah, that's what he was trying to get at as a category 5 hurricane approached a city under sea level---"Mr. President, be prepared for some trivial flooding, but not too much, wouldn't want to waste taxpayer dollars".
The sophisty and intellectual dishonesty of j. west is the best they've got. I thought the Reactionary Right opposed word parsing after "that would depend upon what you mean by the word 'the'".
Posted by euzoius at March 2, 2006 08:53 AMidio,
That's freaky spot on!
The point is that despite protestations otherwise, they were warned of dire consequences from the storm, and people with any awareness of the impacts on levees of storms would know that topping is quite likely to lead to breaching.
And bush was informed, as in the video, that the storm was heading for at the least topping of the levees, yet bush continued his vacation, or continued hiding in his underground bunker (look at the video), or both, and then denied being informed, as if IGNORANCE MAKES IT OKAY!!!
For the leader of the Free World, Christendom, Amerika, etc.
It's good to be the king, right georgie?
In a sane world arguments like the trolls' would guarantee to make things worse for the idiots in charge. And maybe we're getting some sanity back, as I don't think this is going to give the boy a bump in the polls, do you?
Posted by Duckman GR at March 2, 2006 08:53 AMCongress is Broken Please sign the DCCC petition to demand Ethics reform...without oversight capabilities Congress must be fixed in '06! Work to support a slate of progressive Democratic candidates.
Posted by TPaine at March 2, 2006 09:02 AMidio, That's freaky spot on!
Thanks. I've had a lot of opportunity to study him unfortunately.
I'm hoping paradox is wrong - but he's a god of prognostication. We're looking at approval ratings that may actually crack below 30% after this video has sunk in to the public. If the press can keep talking about the video, and I have my doubts that they can, they polls may stay there or continue to drop.
I saw a post soemwhere today lamenting our lack of a Parlimentary government - with approval ratings this low this long, how long ago or how long would it take a no confidence vote to throw out this administration?
Posted by idiosynchronic at March 2, 2006 09:26 AMRemember, u.jest is the guy who promised to go away forever if Wilson wasn't indicted in the Plame case. No brains, no honor, don't bother.
Posted by iamcoyote at March 2, 2006 10:18 AMu.jest has also voiced the opinion that violent anal rape is a normal, natural response to liberals who disagree with the president. He is not a sane person.
Posted by iamcoyote at March 2, 2006 10:23 AMThe White House is tellling us that Bush was "fully engaged."
The only time Georgie is "fully engaged" is when he is jerking off because Laura won't touch the SOB.
Posted by tempus at March 2, 2006 12:08 PMI don’t think it is important whether Bush lied or not. What is important is that Bush did not comprehend the information given to him.
Remember 9/11: he was warned that al-Qaeda would hijack airplanes to hit within USA. He did not understand or act.
Remember the warnings about post-war Iraq and the likelihood of long-time occupation. Bush did not understand or act.
And now Katrina.
This is what is important: Bush doesn’t understand the seriousness of the information presented to him, and this has at least 3 times resulted in endangering the security of USA and resulting in the killing of American citizens and soldiers.
Posted by Bo Arlind, Denmark at March 2, 2006 12:09 PMBo excellent asessment. The man can't even dress himself.
But religious Americans do not like liars.
This group of voters will not understand anything else. We have to drive home the point that he and associates knew but they lied because it is easier than dealing with the truth or intelligence gathered.
Bo and bbtb:
The only thing many Americans like less than liars are smart people. This was one of the biggest strikes against Kerry: he was perceived as a smart, and therefore elitist, liberal. This is still also one of the biggest impediments to the growth of the Democratic party. If we could resurrect the working class, union-supporting, pro social safety net but personally-conservative part of the party, we might get somewhere. (By personally-conservative I mean red-state religious values with a non-interventionist streak that's fine with clucking at the nightly news about these "gays" but will leave it at that.)
Most of America votes on the "who would I rather have a beer with" premise. (I'd still go for Kerry, but hey...)
Bush also does not even listen to the information presented to him -- usually a prerequisite for understanding.
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This was one of the biggest strikes against Kerry: he was perceived as a smart, and therefore elitist, liberal.
***
Who on Earth ever perceived Kerry as smart? It was obvious to all that the guy was dumber than dirt, despite all the machinations by the Dema and their poodle-like MSM.
It turns out that Kerry almost flunked out of Yale, being a D- student and all, and his IQ is below average based on extrapolations of his military aptitude tests.
Posted by dipshit at March 2, 2006 01:39 PMRest assured that at Bush's next press conference no journalist will bring up this embarrassing contradiction.
Posted by bob h at March 2, 2006 02:00 PMUm, Kerry went to law school at Boston College. Admission to BC Law is among the most selective in the United States. And he wasn't a "legacy" like Bushie.
Posted by ann at March 2, 2006 03:07 PMUm, Kerry went to law school at Boston College. Admission to BC Law is among the most selective in the United States. And he wasn't a "legacy" like Bushie.
Posted by ann at March 2, 2006 03:07 PM
****
Holy Moley... this is dumb...even for ann. Jeesh...where do I start.
Umm..okay...so one of the mostsdelective law schools in the country admits a d-minus student...yeah...real selective there, annie.
Umm...I don't recall Bushie's father ever going to Harvard, do you? So where is the legacy there, idjit?
ann...BC is where the monied elites in the NE send their semi-retarded kids.
Posted by dipshit at March 2, 2006 03:58 PMDipShit,
Your 3rd grade name-calling, labeling, and condemnation is quite revealing. What makes you think that insults and offense make you sound legit? You may want to rethink your strategy.
Posted by oppressmenot at March 2, 2006 05:34 PMHoly crap dipshit, you need to do some research before you post that nonsense. Kerry wasn't a D- student. By the time he graduated Yale, his grades were in the B to B+ range. He had a cumulative GPA of 76 which is a C. Additionally, "Kerry received a high honor at Yale despite his mediocre grades: He was chosen to deliver his senior class oration, a testament to his reputation as a public speaker." Boston College happens to be an excellent school and an extremely competative law school.
The legacy, dipshit, was in Bush being admitted to Yale because his father went there. Bush's cumulative GPA at Yale was a 77. You really think they admit C students to Harvard's MBA program whose last name isn't Bush? I doubt it.
But back to the topic at hand: Bush lied. About Iraq, about Katrina and about the illegal spying. Deal with it.
Posted by ann at March 2, 2006 06:41 PM