I also distrust Bush , but your link to the Powell story is all about the nuclear aspect and does not directly back up your implication that he also thought the labs story was crap.Or what did I miss?
Posted by craig mcgaughey at April 12, 2006 01:54 PMCraig does seem to have a point.
Even if Powell did think the mobile labs story was crap prior to the war I don't think he'd admit it. Not after all those slick 3D computer renderings of the death labs that he presented at the UN. One can only willingly take so many blows to ones public reputation.
Posted by snark at April 12, 2006 02:01 PMCraig:
You are correct; good job. Sometimes it is hard for me to keep straight all the lies we were told. Powell is claiming now that he believed that only the tubes story and the uranium stories were crap, but he went ahead and got burned himself on the trailers story at the UN. I have corrected the post.
Posted by Steve Soto at April 12, 2006 02:08 PMSimple Scottie has the credibility of a used-car salesman turned snake charmer. How many of his continuous litany of lies, weasles, & misdirections has HE aplogized for? The absolute gall, the fucking nerve of an unmitigated hypocrite like that telling someone else that THEY should apologize!! And for what? Telling the truth?! He's a jackass of the first degree, a shell of a man with ZERO character or integrity. He can fucking go to hell along with the rest of the warped, would steal the nickles off their dead mother's eyes, right-wing zombie brigade.
Posted by oppressmenot at April 12, 2006 02:11 PMPeople who were paying attention at the time knew that the mobile labs stories were crap: the British had sold Iraq the trailers, the British knew what they were, and it's inconceivable that they didn't clue us in.
Posted by Brian Boru at April 12, 2006 02:12 PMdon't you guys remember the photos? A couple broke down desert worn trailers. That's not what you make delicate chemical mixes in. This was a joke at the time, literally, and everyone laughed at the clear false assertion by Bush. Lets be clear, the Bush Admin, in many many ways, directly and purposefully lied to the American, the World, public on all kinds of things going into this war, which has now cost over 2360 American lives. Most of us knew it then. Many more know it now. But the liar is still president.
Posted by T2 at April 12, 2006 02:17 PMBrian's right. In addition, I remember reading an Australian article that said Saddam had declared the trailers in his document dump before the war. I never once doubted the story was fake.
Posted by iamcoyote at April 12, 2006 02:24 PMNeither did I. But Craig was correct. Powells comments in the linked stroy had nothing to do with the trailers.
Someone needs to dig up the story on the BGritish sale of thetrailors to Iraq and email it to Helen Thomas in time for Bushes next press conference.
Posted by snark at April 12, 2006 02:27 PMIt's funny when I saw those trailers, they looked similiar to "DE (Diatomaceous Earth Filters) Water Treatment Trailers" used in the US Army, (pre-1988).
Posted by bbtb at April 12, 2006 02:28 PMBlow to Blair over 'mobile labs'
Saddam's trucks were for balloons, not germs
Peter Beaumont and Antony Barnett
Sunday June 8, 2003
The Observer
Tony Blair faces a fresh crisis over Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction, as evidence emerges that two vehicles that he has repeatedly claimed to be Iraqi mobile biological warfare production units are nothing of the sort.
The intelligence agency MI6, British defence officers and technical experts from the Porton Down microbiological research establishment have been ordered to conduct an urgent review of the mobile facilities, following US analysis which casts serious doubt on whether they really are germ labs.
The British review comes amid widespread doubts expressed by scientists on both sides of the Atlantic that the trucks could have been used to make biological weapons.
Instead The Observer has established that it is increasingly likely that the units were designed to be used for hydrogen production to fill artillery balloons, part of a system originally sold to Saddam by Britain in 1987.
The British review follows access by UK officials to the vehicles which were discovered by US troops in April and May.
'We are being very careful now not to jump to any conclusions about these vehicles,' said one source familiar with the investigation. 'On the basis of intelligence we do believe that mobile labs do exist. What is not certain is that these vehicles are actually them so we are being careful not to jump the gun.'
The claim, however, that the two vehicles are mobile germ labs has been repeated frequently by both Blair and President George Bush in recent days in support of claims that they prove the existence of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction.
During his whistle stop tour of the Gulf, Europe and Russia, Blair repeatedly briefed journalists that the trailers were germ production labs which proved that Iraq had WMD.
But chemical weapons experts, engineers, chemists and military systems experts contacted by The Observer over the past week, say the layout and equipment found on the trailers is entirely inconsistent with the vehicles being mobile labs. Both US Secretary of State Colin Powell, when he addressed the UN Security Council prior to the war, and the British Government alleged that Saddam had such labs.
A separate investigation published by the New York Times yesterday discloses that the trailers have now been investigated by three different teams of Western experts, with the third and most senior group of analysts apparently divided sharply over their function.
'I have no great confidence that it's a fermenter,' a senior analyst said of a tank supposed to be capable of multiplying seed germs into lethal swarms. The government's public report, he said, 'was a rushed job and looks political'. The analyst had not seen the trailers, but reviewed evidence from them.
Another intelligence expert who has seen the trailers told the US paper: 'Everyone has wanted to find the "smoking gun" so much that they may have wanted to have reached this conclusion. I am very upset with the process.'
Questions over the claimed purpose of trailer for making biological weapons include:
· The lack of any trace of pathogens found in the fermentation tanks. According to experts, when weapons inspectors checked tanks in the mid-Nineties that had been scoured to disguise their real use, traces of pathogens were still detectable.
· The use of canvas sides on vehicles where technicians would be working with dangerous germ cultures.
· A shortage of pumps required to create vacuum conditions required for working with germ cultures and other processes usually associated with making biological weapons.
· The lack of an autoclave for steam sterilisation, normally a prerequisite for any kind of biological production. Its lack of availability between production runs would threaten to let in germ contaminants, resulting in failed weapons.
· The lack of any easy way for technicians to remove germ fluids from the processing tank.
One of those expressing severe doubts about the alleged mobile germ labs is Professor Harry Smith, who chairs the Royal Society's working party on biological weapons.
He told The Observer 'I am concerned about the canvas sides. Ideally, you would want airtight facilities for making something like anthrax. Not only that, it is a very resistant organism and even if the Iraqis cleaned the equipment, I would still expect to find some trace of it.'
His view is shared by the working group of the Federation of American Scientists and by the CIA, which states: 'Senior Iraqi officials of the al-Kindi Research, Testing, Development, and Engineering facility in Mosul were shown pictures of the mobile production trailers, and they claimed that the trailers were used to chemically produce hydrogen for artillery weather balloons.'
Artillery balloons are essentially balloons that are sent up into the atmosphere and relay information on wind direction and speed allowing more accurate artillery fire. Crucially, these systems need to be mobile.
The Observer has discovered that not only did the Iraq military have such a system at one time, but that it was actually sold to them by the British. In 1987 Marconi, now known as AMS, sold the Iraqi army an Artillery Meteorological System or Amets for short.
Additional reporting by Solomon Hughes
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foreignaffairs/story/0,11538,973196,00.html
All right, ann!
Posted by iamcoyote at April 12, 2006 02:56 PMSo, presumably, Bush eventually found out that these trailers were not mobile labs capable of producing bilogical weapons. Did I MISS the day that he held a press conference to apologise to the American public for his statements to the contrary?
Posted by Roderick at April 12, 2006 03:18 PMWell, even when Nero Jr isn't demonstrably lying, his statements just never turn out to be correct or accurate.
That's a really great attribute for the "president" of the United States.
Posted by euzoius at April 12, 2006 03:50 PMThough the timing doesn't perfectly dovetail it would be interesting if any of the newly retrieved emails that Fitz got had any cross reference to the trailers. The WH must have been sweating bullits at this point as they realized that every reason, every fallback, every assumption was blown out of the water. Secrecy was their only weapon/defense left and since we're dealing with a Pres who wanted to paint a plane with UN insignia to start the war, what kind of defenses were concocted (ultimately used or not) to keep this ship afloat?
Posted by mainsailset at April 12, 2006 04:32 PMSometimes it is hard for me to keep straight all the lies we were told.
Yea Steve, sure it is !
Tenet was saying that they still weren't sure about the labs in what, February 2004? If the CIA chief was still saying that then, what makes anyone think that the Bush administration would know any better than him?
When's the last time Bush mentioned it? Anyone?
Posted by Seixon at April 12, 2006 06:28 PMHarry Reid and Howard Dean are both right. It's time the President came clean and showed the American people the truth. Even if the truth does lead straight back to Bush.
Posted by ann at April 12, 2006 07:07 PM...what makes anyone think that the Bush administration would know any better ...
Certainly not anyone with a brain.
Posted by pessimist at April 12, 2006 07:08 PMpessimist, do you do anything other than spittle ad hominem attacks? Give it a rest already.
Posted by Seixon at April 12, 2006 07:16 PMGive it a rest already.
Backatcha, Dude!
You must be feeling guilty or something if you are taking my riposte personally. I didn't point it at you in specific, just at those who aren't paying attention.
But then, if the shoe fits, ...
Posted by pessimist at April 12, 2006 08:17 PMTenet was saying that they still weren't sure about the labs in what, February 2004?
Well Bush gave him that Presidential Medal of Freedom for something.
Covering his ass perhaps?
Posted by snark at April 12, 2006 08:20 PMsex-onion: Blogclogging from the White House basement can lead to arthritus and terminal radon poisoning. Make sure they included longterm healthcare in your GOP contract.
"Don' mess with pess". (sung to the tune of "Don' mess with Bill")
Posted by TIKI AL at April 12, 2006 11:42 PMpess, I'm with you,notice the latest blogwhore from wingnutville rarely sources or links to evidence that supports the claims that s/he throws out here.
Posted by emal at April 13, 2006 04:36 AMIf you mean seixon, it's on his blog; if you mean me, it's in my mind.
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Interesting how each ideology demonizes the other by projecting one aspect of it's own dysfunctionality. One has a problem with the expression of sexuality, the other with authoritarianism.
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Would you rather be ruled by the repressed or the repressive?
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Some of us dont want to be "ruled" period. Talk about revealing choice of words. Rule this.
Posted by jondee at April 13, 2006 04:13 PMKim - Did you mean to say "in my mind",or,"in my mall."?
Posted by jondee at April 13, 2006 04:28 PMYou can substitue 'civilly ordered' for 'ruled', if you prefer that locution. You'll need someone to pay the trash haulers.
Missing the links, already?
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Dean wants Bush to prove he didn't know about this report by declassifying it? How would that let us know if Bush saw it or not?
Oh wait, I guess Dean didn't really think this one through. Again.
Posted by Seixon at April 13, 2006 09:28 PM