watch how the demtillians waffle on this.

just watch.

Is it just me or does it begin to feel like these things are beginning to come fast and thick? An awful lot is happening.

Steve, it may be time to add another poster or two, particularly somebody who does nothing but cover energy both domestically and internationally.

And maybe somebody to do a weekly summary of all the scandals. Is anybody on the blogs doing a rogues gallery yet?

Actually, maybe a third poster is needed to chase down and highlight some good progressive ideas to get us out of the dozen or so messes Bush has gotten us into or simply neglected.

And could they use any of that data in a court of law? Have they tried? Or if anything is suspicious they'll just label the potential perp "an enemy combatant" (I nearly throw up typing that) and toss him in jail on the QT?
Runaway dictatorship we've got here.

The keystone cops we have in office couldn't connect the dots that didn't even need connecting to interpret ("Bin Ladin Determined to Strike in US"). This mining is for political purposes, probably congress and some media people are being blackmailed. Cuz they sure don't sound like they have brains sometimes.

From firedoglake a few days ago:
"Gen. Michael Hayden refused to answer question about spying on political enemies at National Press Club. At a public appearance, Bush’s pointman in the Office of National Intelligence was asked if the NSA was wiretapping Bush’s political enemies. When Hayden dodged the question, the questioner repeated, "No, I asked, are you targeting us and people who politically oppose the Bush government, the Bush administration? Not a fishing net, but are you targeting specifically political opponents of the Bush administration?" Hayden looked at the questioner, and after a silence called on a different questioner. (Hayden National Press Club remarks, 1/23/06)

Good god.

This is the one time I can thank Qwest for good customer service!

Can't wait to hear the wingnuts defend this one.

You can talk about the Keystone Kops in the White House all day long and still miss the major point: if it weren't for the Keystone Voters of this country, none of this would have happened!

S wht th gvrnmnt hs ccss t rcrds f wh clls nd rcvs clls frm trrrsts? Th rl crm hr s th trrrst nblrs wh mschrctrz th prgrm s spyng n mrcns, cnvnntly lbbng nthr rtrtn f trd thm spcfclly tmd fr ts mnpltv ffct n ths cnsdrng th cnfrmtn f Bsh's nmn.

Fascism: Back and better than ever!

millions of regular Americans spied on. Do you folks still think that the GOP Overlords are going to let an election kick them out?

This isn`t news. Its the same allegation found in the third new york times article and EFF lawsuit.

This is what the "access to the AT&T daytona database" is all about. (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/24/politics/24spy.html?ex=1293080400&en=016edb46b79bde83&ei=5090)

And when the first New York times article mentioned targetting "Dirty phone numbers" for the interception of international calls this is exactly what people toke that to mean.

Bush MUST be impeached.

If there was ever any question, this revelation alone should be proof that he's stayed too long at the fair and should be returned to the Crawford pig farm after the November midterms.

Was this included in the briefings to the wee group of Congress? If so, WHO THE HELL ARE THESE PEOPLE NOT TO JUMP ALL OVER THE OVERSIGHT OF THIS? Lindsey Graham on Fox last hour was pissed! Acted like he had no idea this existed. As an ex-JAG he might have just hit his no return button. Be interesting to see just where Bush cites authority for this. Also, I believe the DOJ lawyers had to close case yestereday on NSA investigation because their lawyers were denied clearance. Congress holds the bag on this one.

stv, lbrt s crrct; fr d y thnk tht th Hll whrs wr nwr f NS's flshnss? ll f ths cmpns, spclly Qst, wld hv cntctd th Hll f Cmplcts.

God I'm slow. Of course it's not about terrorism, it's about money! If the Verizon, AT&T and BellSouth are "under contract" with Bush then it goes without saying there's a bundle of Consideration being exchanged. Those tens of millions of names, info & patterns are worth billions. Couldn't get FISA court approval because they would have laughed him out the door. So, did Bush barter with Telecoms? Did Congress fund this? And is Spectre still standing by his Bush Did It In Good Faith argument?

Let's see they can get our phone records without a warrant, but they can't get our gun record's without a warrant?

I feel violated. I think I need to go take a shower. Ewww.

It was obvious that there was more going on when Gonzalez was not answering questions before Congress. He mentioned "this" or "this particular" NSA program, like there were others.

And maybe somebody to do a weekly summary of all the scandals. Is anybody on the blogs doing a rogues gallery yet?

that would be tpm muckraker

I highly recommend: No Place to Hide by Robert O'Harrow, if you're interested in the vast data gathering, spying, mining that our government and private companies are engaged in. I agree with mainsailset, it's about money - and power.

The local grocery stores here and are pushing this new fingerprint technology to supposedly make buying groceries more convenient. They claim it's secure and safer than using your debit card. I say hogwash, I don't want a file of my fingerprints available to marketers or the government. Not to mention that the company they are using is ChoicePoint, who allowed criminals posing as businesses to access the personal data of 163,000 consumers.

lk, f th prsdnt nly hs 31% pprvl rtng, t fllws tht thr <>r tns f mllns f l qd n th cntry. lv bg brthr

But... but...

9-11!!!

We're spying on us here so we won't have to spy on them over there...

If you've done nothing wrong (and voted for all the right people) you have nothing to fear...

Why do you smelly lib'ruls hate America so much?

yes, the answer is 9/11. i love big brother

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look, if you don't like arbitrary surveillance and detention, go move to russia or something. if we don't shred the constition in favor of a cult of personality, then the terrorists will have won. i love big brother.

Guess this gives us some basis for understanding why the telecoms think they're entitled to enormous windfall revenues by destroying net neutrality, eh?

I wonder how many people are switching to Qwest today?

And how much internet data and emails from Americans have been gathered, examined and stored without warrants? Think all the big ISPs have Qwest's courage? Not likely.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the federal courts to uphold the "law"---they're just a radical right-wing authoritarian operation at this point. Nero has destroyed the independence of our courts, just as the Nazis did with the German courts. They'll ultimately rule in favor of Nero at all appellate levels---there are no "impartial" Republican judges anymore, and they're the vast majority on the courts.

Bush v. Gore revealed the scope of the destruction of the courts and Nero has appointed hundreds of even more radical young white male reactionaries to the courts since then.

So the future of our two century old democracy rests completely on the return of the House to Democratic control in 2006. How's that for a "decisive" election?

Better think about having a backup plan, because I wouldn't put much stock in the shitbrained voters to save the country. 2004 made clear the citizens aren't up to the task, then or now.

The real crime here is the terrorist enablers who mischaracterize the program as spying on Americans

Exactly. It is a violation of the 4th Amendement of the Bill of Rights, and sedition. A good public square hanging for the perpetrators and supporters of this would be quite just. Maybe a good stoning and burning for some. The dominionists have it correct in this one regard.

This isn't "spying" on calls. The phone companies have and sell this data all the time to telemarketers, for cryin' out loud! The NSA is doing what an intelligence agency should be doing to find the bad guys. The only thing this "revelation" by USA Today has done is to tell the terrorists to use Qwest.

This isn't "spying" on calls. The phone companies have and sell this data all the time to telemarketers, for cryin' out loud!

True. So does this mean Bush can't be touched? You need a warrant to search someone's house, but if you pay the roomate to let you in and search, then you don't need a warrant right? And certainly Congress didn't need to know--it's just a business transaction. So can anything be done about this disgusting breach of privacy?

John, The phone companies sell the phone NUMBERS not the information in the calls. So I guess it is ok for the government to come and get your gun ownership records too!

The phone companies sell phone number lists, not lists of each call made and both parties' numbers. Big difference. HUGE.

The Dems can't really push anyone around on this. Anyone remember Echelon?

Anyways, I'm not sure I see the problem with the government having access to what a bunch of phone companies already have access to. It's not like they are looking into the contents of the communications, ergo, not "spying" on your communications.

Congress already knew this was going on, so don't expect them to make a big stink about it. Well, except perhaps some partisan Democrats looking to bork Hayden.

In any case, the legality arguments should be fun to read from both sides of the issue.

OK, my comment about not having brains extends past media and congress.

Is it really freedom if we can't talk on the phone without being listened to by our government?

Well, this is just a Broke Back Mountain Hollywood liberal faggot interpretation of what our government is doing to actually keep us safe from terrorists. If you don't understand why the govenment needs to spy on campus student groups, anti-war protestors and liberals, and listen to the calls made by citizens to keep you free and secure, then I can never explain it to you. Don't you get it? What about the children? Just like you liberal faggots to forget them, and the soldiers dying in Iraq to preserve your freedoms!

America and freedom! Love it or leave it you faggot liberal commie pinko fellow travelers. Sieg Heil!!

Data Mining - definition

"The process of analyzing data to identify patterns or relationships."
Looks like data mining to me.

The Dems can't really push anyone around on this. Anyone remember Echelon?

Yes, Echelon complied with FISA. Bush's warrantless wiretapping on the other hand....does not comply with FISA because Bush thinks he's above the law.

It's not like they are looking into the contents of the communications, ergo, not "spying" on your communications.

Collecting data on who I call or who calls me is most certainly spying. They don't have to hear the contents of what I'm saying to qualify as spying. People spy on others by simply following them.

Congress already knew this was going on, so don't expect them to make a big stink about it. Well, except perhaps some partisan Democrats looking to bork Hayden.

They most certainly did not know.

From Verizon's Code of Business Conduct. They sure as hell never told me that who I call was being sold to the gov't.

Verizon has adopted ten “Privacy Principles” which reflect the company’s commitment to safeguarding
customer privacy in an era of rapidly changing communications technology and applications. We should
be aware of the Principles and how they may impact our jobs.
General Privacy Principles

1. Verizon obtains and uses individual customer information for business purposes only.

2. Verizon informs customers how information Verizon obtains about them is used, as well as their
options regarding its use.

3. Verizon gives customers opportunities to control how and if Verizon uses individual information about
them to sell them products and services.

4. Verizon enables customers to control how and if Verizon discloses individual information about them
to other persons or entities – except as required by law or to protect the safety of customers,
employees or property.

It goes on, but for some reason when I preview this post, it's all running together, so I'll cut it off there.

I saw Bush on TV saying that our privacy was being protected. What he doesn't seem to get is that if we didn't willingly give the NSA information on who we're calling, our privacy has already been invaded. You can't secretly get someone's info and then promise to protect their privacy. Protect it from whom? Big Brother's already got it.

"Bush MUST be impeached."

Oh no, no, no, this is just getting good from strictly a political prespective.

Bush has Ronnie Raygun spinning in his grave, probably has Daddy grousing to Babs all the time damn about what a fuck up jr. is, and has done damage to the Republican party on par with Richard Nixon.

Unfortunately, the asshole has also screwed all us little people, Dem or Rep in process.

Barring complete destruction of our economy, if we aren't past the tipping point already, he is better off staying in office while the Republican party screws itself into being the "bitch" party for the next two presidential election cycles.

The moonbats came out in force for this non-issue.
Do you goofballs ever read what exactly is the NSA mission is? Do you read at all or just repeat talking points?
Do you know just how stupid you look by thinking that a governement agency has the manpower and computers to look thru about 100 million phone calls a day?
Do you actually think they are recording all those phone calls? Do you actually think the PHONE COMPANIES are recording those calls (The NSA is asking phone companies for that info, remember?)?
Are you concerned at all that these NSA leaks give the terrorists exactly what they need to circumvent what little security we do have and possibly kill you in the near future?

Oh yeah, that's right.
You do not think.
There are not any terrorists.
There is only George Bush.

Unbelievable.

Do you read at all or just repeat talking points?

He asks without a hint of irony.

Do you actually think they are recording all those phone calls?

And btw, please point out where it says anywhere in the post that the NSA or the phone companies are recording the calls?

Are you concerned at all that these NSA leaks give the terrorists exactly what they need to circumvent what little security we do have and possibly kill you in the near future

Well, anyone who goes and switches their telephone service to Qwest in the next few days will surely tip off the authorities by their suspicious activity right? Or maybe all the terrorists will abandon telecommunications altogether and make their operations massively more efficient by switching to carrier pidgeons and smoke signals to communicate with each other!

And bravo on your use of FEAR!!!!!!!

Perhaps you can go change your undies now before the load of shit in your pants starts to stink the place up.

MoonBats,

Remember those talking points when Hillery is President.

So you can defend her illegal actions too.

You wanted to know who the 31% were. Now you know. They have been on this blog tonight, and they are indeed as stupid as we thought.

When they come here with a bomb, or come to slit your throat, you will will we had a damn good program to spy on communications with terrorists and militant Islamists.

Ouch, should a Democratic president break the law, we'll condemn her. Unlike members of the imbecilic "conservative" movement, we are able to neutrally apply our intellectual principles.

And Rockon, could you be more of a terrified bedwetter? sheesh.