Keep in mind that this is from an organized church that makes Jesus a diety in his own rite and then ignores nearly everything he taught and supports the hell fire and brimstone of the old testement which he largely rejected. It's not about spirituality but about power. That's the bottom line when it comes to most institutionalized religions.
Posted by Ron In Portland at May 20, 2006 10:28 AM"disrupting the showing of the movie in India"
crowds standing in front of the Wendy's in India chanting "Where's the belief?"
Posted by TIKI AL at May 20, 2006 10:33 AM
Concerning the Hypocritical Attacks against Dan Brown's DA Vinci Code
by Gerd Lüdemann
You didn't leave a link, nor did you identify yourself in any meaningful way, so I took out your post. You may return later WITH A LINK if you wish, but I won't allow this sort of bandwidth wastage - p
Where was all this concern by the Catholic church when pedophiles were tearing it down from within?
And incarcerating the astronomer Bruno for 8 years, then burning him at the steak because he would not recant his absurd heretical view that the Earth revolved around the Sun does not look good on the Catholic church's credibility resume.
... then burning him at the steak ...
I'll take mine medium rare! - p
Posted by TIKI AL at May 20, 2006 11:10 AMPss, rlly dn’t knw whr t bgn. Lt’s strt smpl. Hw mny flms hv y sn bt Jdsm? bg ft zr; nd ths s thr pstv r ngtv. Rght hr, wth th rght dnc, cld stp: s ll s xplnd. ’ll b rght p frnt nd mntn tht th nly ‘chsn/lct’ f Gd r ll ths thrght hstry tht Jhvh slctd nt t dstry n th scnd dth ftr th rsrrctn f vry sngl cncvd hmn bng. (Wht bt th Nndrthls, tc.? fctn gnrtd by ths tht lrnd scnc fctn frm th lk f Drwn. cld g n fr svrl hndrd pgs. Myb smn hs. nd, ys, ny gnt lzrds xstd wlkd wth mn-nd th bg dmb sss wr trrfd f pny mn. Pls d srch n plntlgy tchnqs; y’ll fnd sm nf tht cntrs crp spnsrd scntsm.)
Whn th crp lrds bght p ll md tlts vr 100 yrs g, thy bgn t systmtclly dstry wht ws lft f th rlgs nstttn, whch ws rthr wk Chrstn chrch. Smltnsly, thy trd t strk t th Cthlc Chrch, bt thy, bng cntrlly rgnzd, strck bck. Th crp bys bckd ff frm th Cthlcs fr dcds. ndd, hw mny ld tm flms cn y rcll tht prbbly dpctd Cthlc prst pstvly? Thy r myrd. Ths s bcs th crp by r-thght strtgy nd dcdd t prmt Cthlcs vr tr Chrstnty. Ths, th ld tm Chrstn pstrs wr hmmrd: blttld, dngrtd, chrctr ssssntn, tc. Sprtlly, thr r rsns fr ths tht wll nly b pprnt ftr th nd f ths rlty. nywy, r crp lrds f wy bck knw tht thy hd tm t hndl th Cthlcs.
Th tr rgnzd Chrstn chrch s dd; th mdrn rgnzd Chrstn chrch s n dffrnt thn sy, Bbyln, th Rpblcn Prty, r th Dmcrt Prty, d nsm. r, n nthr wy, th mdrn Chrstn rgnzd chrch s nw Bbyln. cld g n frvr hr, s wll. Bt lt m dd fr sm clrty, tht ystrdy, ftr pt nw bttrs n th wf’s TV rmt, whn tstd th nt, rn crss yr ld frnd, psd Chrstn, Pt Rbrtsn. H ws skng fr mny t hlp Jwsh Rssns mgrnt t srl. My pnt hr s tht th Jws hv r-dctd th psd-Chrstn chrch. Ds ny f ths mk sns?
Lt m sy tht jst s th crps nd thr mny hndlrs brdcstd th lk f Drwn, tc., nd cstgtd wht ws lft f th tr Chrstns f 100 yrs g, ths gngstrs drmd p th nw rlgn f ‘sclr hmnsm,’ whch cntns lmnts f ll th bv. Bt, thr fvrt lbl fr ths nw mdrn stt rlgn s, ‘prgrssvsm.’ yh.
m rnnng lng hr nd vryn hts t whn thy hv t scrll pst bt tw pgs, s ’ll wrp t p.
Wth th trmnds sccss f th crp bys n th wrld f bstrct rlgn, th Cthlc Chrch s th nxt trgt. t s ncssry fr th Cthlcs t fllw th sm pth f dstrctn s th tr Chrstn chrch. ndd, w nt svrl nrds lrdy. Frst, w s ll th crp pblcty shwng th hrrrs f hmsxlty/pdphl wthn th Cthlc rgnztn drng th pst fw yrs. nd thn w nt th ‘prgrssv’ rlgnsts ttckng vrs Cthlc rls bt nbrn nfntcd, brth cntrl, dntns, nd myrd f thr stff f ll typs.
Bt nw w s th ltmt crp ttck pn th Cthlc Chrch: th drdd flm, sng vry sngl hmn fctr t lct th ntr rng f hmn mtn. Why s th flm? Why s ny flms? Why wtch TV? Why rd ny md? sggst n n shld d ny f th bv ntl h ndrstnds hmslf nd hs wn dprvty. Th nly pth hr s th Bbl, nd ths s rthr nrrw, rcky, trcky pth ndd. Bt, th thr rd s sy, wd, nd hs fw shrt trm bnfts. Th dstntn s nplsnt, hwvr. Pss, y knw my nw tht lwys tll y wht y nd t hr, nd nt wht y wnt t hr. Fr, f y wnt t hr wht y wnt t hr, thn wtch TV, flms, md, nd ll th thr crp trsh. Ths gys flly ndrstnd mn’s prvrsn nd rtnly s t gnst s fr thr bnft f pwr, prft, dmnnc, nd cntrl. Dn’t lk th bv mplctn? Wll, cls yr ys, bcs th crp bys crnrd ll lvls f dctn, frm pr-schl t pst grd stff. Ths pnks r gd.
scout don't forget those meds..you're sounding insane again...
Posted by headxray at May 20, 2006 11:30 AMShorter scout/pedophile: "Read the bible, you filthy, filthy humans. You'll still be filthy, but at least you'll be validating my paranoid psychosis."
Posted by iamcoyote at May 20, 2006 11:39 AMDa Vinchi Code = fiction
Bible = more fiction
Death = complete unconsciousness
Posted by TIKI AL at May 20, 2006 11:48 AM
What's funny is that the movie is getting amazingly widespread marketing with little cost. All the fuss has made more people curious than would normally be so; the numbers are already showing it. Kinda like how Al Franken's "Liars" book sales boomed when O'Liely tried to pull a lawsuit against it out of his butt. From the film maker's point of view, all this whining is a godsend. (pun intended)
Posted by iamcoyote at May 20, 2006 11:54 AMFirst, let me state where I'm coming from. I'm a practicing Christian of the more tolerant variety (Episcopalian.)
First observation: the surest way to guarantee big box office sales for a film is to organize a boycott. All the uproar over Gibson's Passion of the Christ (from the other side of the divide) had no effect but to unite its defenders and give it more publicity. O'Reilly's lawsuit against Al Franken propelled the latter's book to the top of the bestseller list. If nothing else, the Catholic Church needs to get a new PR advisor.
The story of Jesus and Mary Magdalene escaping to France has been around since the early Middle Ages. Their child supposedly gave rise to the first Frankish royal line, the Merovingian Dynasty, which never seemed too credible to me, as they were the nastiest, most bloodthirsty lot to claim to be Christians until BushCo came along. As to Opus Dei, well once again, the RC's are only drawing attention to that organization by their hysterical actions. The book's a bit extreme, but it was so badly written I didn't take it seriously. But they should come clean.
Posted by Delia at May 20, 2006 11:54 AMDelia, great minds and all that. I agree that the book was badly written, but the pacing was brilliant. It was a frolic, nothing more. I'm sure the movie will be a frolic as well.
Also, I remember the church going wacko over Jesus Christ Superstar, the Last Temptation of Christ and The Exorcist as well. The Church whines no matter what, because they want to be the ones to decide what people should believe. They're afraid because their power over the minds and bodies of their congregations might be diluted if their laws seem fuzzy.
Posted by iamcoyote at May 20, 2006 12:00 PMDelia: After confirmation in the Luthern Church, I had the same problem with the bible: it was so badly written and over-edited to depower women, that I could not take it seriously. An obvious tool of fiction for male chavenist piggies.
Speak of the devil, was scout a "godsend"?
Posted by TIKI AL at May 20, 2006 12:13 PMDid I miss the global decree about all the arts having to promote very specific dogma or was I struck deaf and blind and no one told me?
Posted by Peanut at May 20, 2006 12:14 PMI keep hearing that Torquemada Scalia has some kind of connection to Opus Dei ("Thank you God, may I have another?") - anyone know more about that? Also, wasnt Opus Dei founded by one of Francisco Franco's flunkies?
Posted by jondee at May 20, 2006 12:23 PMYou tend to forget the uproar caused by Monty Python's Life of Brian. It was banned completely in some states, and disrupted like a big dog. Anything with jesus in it fucks these religious nuts up. They want the jesus they prey (intentional spelling) to. The jesus of the wealthy, the jesus of pain and death and persecution, the jesus that would buy WWJD shit at malls, the blond-haired blue-eyed buff full-lipped and tan jesus who looks super model thin and sexy tacked to the cross. You know, real christians.
Please do a search on paleontology techniques; you’ll find some info that counters corp sponsored scientism.
No. You'll find superstitious information pushed by morons supporting lunacy. Stuff like, "It's safe to peer into your gas tank using a Bic lighter when the tank reads empty. Since there is no gas, it doesn't exist, and nothing can prove to me it's there."
Does any of this make sense?
Oh yes. Absolutely. Without a doubt. It makes great sense. Yours is the only true religion...only you are the light and salvation...only you know the true path...only you are the scout...your beliefs are the only ones that can save humanity...people should believe only as you do...to believe otherwise dooms us each and every one of us to hell...only your thinking should be taught in schools...only you can devine the true meaning of existence... god speaks through you...the vagina is a sacred recepticle...women can't be trusted...women are whores...women are dirty...women must be kept in their place...women should do as you say...you haven't had an erection in years...your early homosexual experiences (say willingly performing oral sex on a male when you were young? Your mind strays to this. You find it arousing) haunt you...
I know exactly what you are like. Your writings let me read you like a well-worn book. If christ came to earth, and you had your way, you would enslave him or burn him to death. That's how far you are from the true word. You, for some repressed reason, became the abomination you fear in others.
You need to read the The Three Christs of Ypsilanti by Milton Rokeach. Enlightening (so I know you'll stay away. You are anything but enlightened).
Posted by phidipide at May 20, 2006 12:29 PMScout - For starters, how about striving for a little more economy in expression/rant? We'll work on content later. Remember you're a guest here.
Posted by jondee at May 20, 2006 12:31 PMpess: Charlston's serves a medium rare Galileo fillet to die for. If you're ever in Tempe.........
Posted by TIKI AL at May 20, 2006 12:33 PMThey went bozongo over The Last Temptation too. And that film didnt even attempt to "debunk" or overtly attack anything about the basic Jesus story. Kazantzakis's point was an imaginal attempt to express Jesus's humanity, which was apparently too much for the faction that desperatly needs an abstract, paternalistic "perfect Lamb of God."
Posted by jondee at May 20, 2006 12:48 PMTIKI, more like a "demonturd."
Posted by iamcoyote at May 20, 2006 12:49 PMIt has to be scary when a two hour Tom Hanks vehicle can lay waste to your entire belief system. There is only so far the "God is testing us" drivel will carry you. Dinosaurs, new solar systems, missing links, and now the blatantly anti-christian Ron "Opie" Howard and his obviously Satan driven agenda... What's a terrified evangelical wing-nut to do?
Posted by IHateRedState.com at May 20, 2006 12:52 PMLoved the book, but I am in no hurry to see the film.
The current uproar surrounding the Da Vinci Code reminds me of the screaming heard from La Citta del Vaticano when The Exorcist was made into a movie back in 1973.
MEMO TO POPE RATNAZI: It's only a book. It's only a movie. Why not devote 50% of the energy you're spending on The Da Vinci Code to stopping Priest sex abuse?
Just saying..........................
Posted by Christopher at May 20, 2006 12:55 PMWhy is Jesus always portrayed as looking like one of the Beach Boys during their Acid, hanging out with "The Family" phase? Heavan forbid that he could've been a swarthy, semitic type.
Posted by jondee at May 20, 2006 12:56 PMThe people that picket "Piss Christ" are the people that would kill over "Piss Reagan." IMHO.
Posted by jondee at May 20, 2006 01:00 PMThere was a Kos diary earlier this week with excerpts from a new book and psychological profile of bush, called The Madness of george w. bush
[snip]
"Malignant narcissists can seem confident and self-assured, but are, in reality, covering deep insecurities and fears through an inflated self-image. Intense feelings of revenge, fury and rage verging on insanity manifests when their fear is exposed, and their narcissism threatened. At the core of their process is self-hatred, as malignant narcissists split-off and dissociate from a part of themselves."
In a larger context, I think narcissism is a fundamental component in modern fundamentalist christianity - and in Opus Dei. Somehow these people believe in their self-reinforcing, self-inflated attitudes. They're somehow better than the rest of us because they fast, pray for hours each day or practice corporal mortification.
The dissociation between these beliefs and the reality of the pedophilia endemic in the catholic church is only one example that comes to mind.
In any event, 'The DaVinci Code' represents an exposure of the fear and consequently the rage against Ron Howard, et al. It's sad really.
Please read the diary on 'The Madness of george w. bush.' It goes a long way in explaing the trolls here. Trying to engage them in any meaningful conversation is useless.
Posted by Jim Faith at May 20, 2006 01:22 PMWhy is Jesus always portrayed as looking like one of the Beach Boys during their Acid, hanging out with "The Family" phase? Heavan forbid that he could've been a swarthy, semitic type.
Posted by jondee at May 20, 2006 12:56 PM
****
Maybe Jesus was a Beachboy. " 'Round, 'round,I get around ". Doesn't that sound like Jesus? Just saying....
Posted by sf at May 20, 2006 01:39 PMIts only a movie. It will be forgotten in a year.
Posted by Big Red at May 20, 2006 01:45 PMBart Ehrman of UNC Chapel-Hill has an excellent book out called The Truth and Fiction in The Da Vinci Code . Professory Ehrman is the dept. chair of Religious Studies at UNC and is very well respected for his scholarship on the history of the Bible and Biblical Times.
Posted by Chuck at May 20, 2006 01:49 PMFather O'Malley said he wanted to take me, but he wants to wait till its showin at the Drive-In.
Posted by jondee at May 20, 2006 01:53 PMh, bt w wr s ndrstndng whn mslms rtd vr crtns. t ds mttr t Chrstns whn thrs r dcvd t thr vrlstng dstrctn, smthng th lft sms cntnt t llw. Yt ths wh hv wllflly rjctd th trth wll rmn dldd wth r wtht sch wrthlss mgntns.
[Editor: ignore=off]You're all quite right that this bullying and hysteria masks a deeper insecurity about their faith. Yes, I remember the fuss over Last Temptation of Christ. It seemed to me at the time that all the folks who had missed out on demonstrations in the 60s because they were too timid or conventional now felt they had their chance to get out in the streets and march with signs. Of course it had the predictable effect of driving up ticket sales.
As to Life of Brian, the greatest flick of them all: well, I remember about ten years back a priest in my church at the time, a very proper English lady in her early sixties (who had led a rather uncoventional life), recommended that film in a sermon. I think it was something about being true to your inner self.
Whatever your beliefs, always hang out with people who are unafraid.
Posted by Delia at May 20, 2006 02:11 PMI thought Jesus married John. Or was it James? I think he was dating Judas, but that was reported by the National Enquirer.
Posted by tempus at May 20, 2006 02:15 PMJesus Christ Superstar, the Last Temptation of Christ and The Exorcist as well.
Coyote, funny all are favorites of mine. I must be bad...
Posted by tempus at May 20, 2006 02:20 PMBendito - So you're intolerance is allowed but theirs isnt. That about right? As usual, your tumescent righteousness and subservience to power defies description. What would they do without your kind?
Posted by jondee at May 20, 2006 02:27 PMjondee,
LMAO!!! Word!
I think Jesus should be portrayed by the hot blonde hunk on Lost. Now he's my idea of church!
Posted by Christopher at May 20, 2006 02:28 PMscout, could you please begin your comments with "scout here" so we know to scoll past without reading any further?
Posted by benjoya at May 20, 2006 02:28 PMAs to Life of Brian, the greatest flick of them all: well, I remember about ten years back a priest in my church at the time, a very proper English lady in her early sixties (who had led a rather uncoventional life), recommended that film in a sermon. I think it was something about being true to your inner self.
Whatever your beliefs, always hang out with people who are unafraid. Posted by Delia at May 20, 2006 02:11 PM
Follow the sandal! No follow the gourd! And don't didn't show off my pecker! Stone her to death, and praise the cheese-makers!
Posted by tempus at May 20, 2006 02:33 PMi love george bush
Posted by jondee at May 20, 2006 02:43 PMMy teenage daughter thinks she's funny.
Posted by jondee at May 20, 2006 02:52 PMMy two cents:
I read the book. I loved it. I agree as well, it was not the best-written piece of fiction I'd ever read, but the story was fun, and I like the Robert Langdon character.
Of course, it's just a work of fiction, and anything on which a church cals for boycotts and bans demonstrates that church's insecurity, fear of thinking and different ideas. The calls were also guaranteed to increase the ticket sales, and I can't fathom why censorship hounds haven't figure that lesson out by now.
As for the movie, well, I thought it betrayed what little social importance it actually had. I'll try not to spoil anything for anyone who hasn't seen it, but I found it most ironic that the screen version of a story whose thesis in part condemns religious-based mysogeny dumbed down the heroine into an archetypical "I need to be rescued" character whose aid in solving all the story's puzzles stops after her first scene. Moreover, the movie seemed to go out of its way to be "agnostic" about what the book purported to be "truth" within its fictional universe - an alternative history of the life of Jesus. Not terribly bold for a film generating this kind of controversy.
Oh - and the changed ending was stupid.
Visually, the film worked well. Sadly the best part of the visual artistry comes in the form at a brief peek at Langdon's speech at a French university. As a thriller, it was a dud.
As something to be taken seriously, uh, lighten up, folks. It's entertainment. And that includes me for making my pretentious remarks in this post. :)
Posted by Liveliest Crib at May 20, 2006 03:29 PMChristopher, if Jesus came back as Sawyer, I'd definitely wash his feet, and certainly be his last temptation. As it is, I think we should follow the holy gourd of righteousness!
Posted by iamcoyote at May 20, 2006 03:38 PMjondee, that was hilarious! Give your daughter a swat for me!
Posted by iamcoyote at May 20, 2006 03:39 PMT kp th pc, sct cmmnt fllwng:
Phd, frst wnt t thnk y fr dvlpng yr rgmnts, bt thy r lckng rl sbstnc. Th 60’s, wth ts rblln, plcd wht ws lft f th tr chrch nt ts grv; Brn nd Sprstr, tc. wr jst cpl f crp nt-s-sbtl bttlgrnd sccsss.
Rkch s nthr kk psychlgst r psychtrst f th lk f Prls nd Lwn, bth f whm y r fnd. ll f ths fls r crp dps, wht dd y xpct m t sy? Yt, Rk hs n lmnt f trth, f nly h nclds hs wn dprvty f prd wthn th grp f ppl tht ‘wnt t b s gd,’ lng wth th rst f s. Dn’t frgt, tht r mthr, v, fll fr th ‘b lk gd’ l.
Pls, try nt t nlyz smn vr th ntrnt; s ths nt gnst sm kk psychlgcl ssctn f plcs, rls, nd prcdrs? ll f whch tht prp th stts q f bsc mntnnc f scl nsnty? Ys. thr wy, y sht yrslf n th ft.
Pss, why nt dlt cyt whn sh gts ll prsnl nd clls m ths nsts? Crp, y dltd tht thr gy bfr cld rd hs stff, (ws t cmmrcl, r smthng ls?) nywy, nvr cll hr nythng bd, t lst nt drctly lk sh ds. f sh wr t tlk tht wy t th tbl, Dd wld’v snt hr t hr rm.
Jn, crp, pst fw sntncs, sm r lng wndd, bt ’m gng t fllw Bnjy’s drctv, bt y pst lk bt 11 tms.
Bn, thght bt th slm crtns, ls. s y knw, r mdrn prcttnrs f sclr hmnsm lv chs, nd vry msrbl frm f scl cntrdctn, nd rg th bnfts f ch, bt nt t th sm tm. Thy hv t frgt ch pst sttmnt f dcptv ttrnc, bfr cntnng t th nxt. n thr wn mnds thy rmmbr n cntns strm f cnscsnss: nrmlly, prvrsn, bt lwys wndrng bt, srchng nd nvr fndng. xcllnt pnts.
Ironic how the Christian mythologists are going around debunking a work of fiction--fiction debunking fiction. Only in this crazy, topsy turvy world.
Posted by D at May 20, 2006 05:42 PMpess - PLEASE don't lump all Christians together as you did in the original post. Surely you know that we Christians are a very diverse lot. My Christian faith is diametrically opposed to the type of faith held by the people who are making a big deal of the movie. It is an unfortunate reality that my faith is called the same thing as theirs. I could fill this note with snark about Falwell and Robertson and Osteen and Billy Graham, along with the "blind faith" Catholics who don't understand what the word "fiction" means, but I won't bother. I read the book and it was a good read - good action - clever mystery - theologically shallow, like most of modern fiction. I haven't seen them movie yet, but probably will soon.
Please remember that just because some people (throughout history) have managed to turn their Christianity into the opposite of what Jesus intend, doesn't mean all Christians are guilty.
That kind of thinking opens the door for people to think that we liberals really do hate religion.
"....espite all of the uproar caused by the Christians over its content."
But I do not think that we have to worry about these folks sawing off peoples heads on video-tape while screaming "God is great!"
"...which 'offended' the Christian churches..."
Why the quotes? Is it not a belief among Lefties that everyone has a right to be offended and such feelings of being offended should not be questioned?
"Controlling what people see and hear is a blatant attempt at controlling what people think and believe, and is a common practice of both cults and totalitarian organizations."
The Mohammed cartoons ring a bell?
"It's a more insidious version of the everyday advertising manipulation we all undergo daily no matter where we turn."
Insidious? If that was no advertising, how would the consumer know what is available? Public service announcements for acne cream....paid for by tax dollars, I suppose.
" Could it be that there is something to the charges that Opus Dei is a cult?"
Good advertising copy there pessimist! Leave the consumer wanting more.
" If they are so sure of their faith, why should it matter to them about what others think or believe? What are they so afraid of? Why aren't they taking the typical (allegedly-)Christian Bu$hCo (mi$)Admini$tration approach to any issue for which negative questions are asked and just dismiss such 'wrong thinking' as irrelevant? Why the full court press to proslytize against what the critics dismiss as a weak drama?"
And the "more" is a slam at the Bush administration: I was hoping for something....less predictable and hackneyed.
"What say you?"
I have said it.....have at it folks! (Expectations of the usual insults and tinfoil-hat conspiracies in 4...3...2...1)
I am running long here and everyone hates it when they have to scroll past about two pages..
Actually Scout, I recognize your posts within about 4 words and since you continually link homosexuality with pedophiles (among other serious digressions) i simply hit the space bar x2 and viola... no scout comment. (Ron in Portland's excellent observation made me hesitate for just a moment this time around).
OTOH, on a Saturday, reading Scout is like watching local cable access. Damned fine entertainment if you have the right state of mind going in.
Posted by simp at May 20, 2006 06:15 PMI dunno about anyone else, but my mom's name wasn't Eve. I'm also no longer a teenager at my dad's table, so I'm not sure why that would seem relevant, unless someone were trying to infantilize someone else with manipulative language. Hmm.
Cry me a river, scout, you poor thing. Did I call you "nasties?" (an effete turn of phrase, that) You pretend you're here for political discourse, but no matter the subject, it always comes back to the depravity of humans, read your bible, blah blah blah. Your rantings against corporations gets you a small measure of agreement, but your flawed message is that they're bad because they don't believe what you believe, not because they're rich greedy fucks. Isn't it a bit of a stretch to think the DaVinci Code was made into a film to push a secular agenda? I think that's the same argument Bill O'Reilly makes daily on his program. And your claim that no films have been made about Judaism? That's just silly.
And just because you don't insult me personally - you only insult women and gays and humanists and everyone else in general - doesn't mean you're not every bit a name-caller as I am. I'm just more honest about my intentions than you. Again, the use of manipulative language.
By all points, you are the definition of a troll and are treated as such. But I'm glad you've found a kindred spirit in Bendittohead. You might learn from his example and keep your incoherent rantings to a nice, 1-2 sentence spew, posting only once in a great while. That would be good, and people might like you more. You'd still be a troll, but not looked upon with as much hostility as you currently enjoy. Just a thought, big guy.
I had to laugh, though, at your girly whining. Ironic, isn't it?
Posted by iamcoyote at May 20, 2006 06:16 PMOpus Dei-
If you Google Opus Dei, Jose Escriva, Vatican, Banco Ambrosiano, Roberto Calvi, Michael Sindona, Bishop Marcinkus, and the Italian Masonic Lodge P3, you will get quite history of the interconnections between historical fascism, Opus Dei, the looting of the Banco Ambrosiano, and the murder of Roberto Calvi who was found handing from Blackfriar's Bridge. Opus Dei now runs the Roman Catholic Church. It's power is enormous. NBC did a recent expose on this story last year. Opus Dei is far from a benevolent force in this world.
Anybody else get the feeling that the stupid danish cartoon brouhaha is the new "why didn't Ray Nagin use the busses?"
Especially when teabagger's flaying that rancid dead horse?
Posted by iamcoyote at May 20, 2006 06:23 PMBut I do not think that we have to worry about these folks sawing off peoples heads on video-tape while screaming "God is great!"
No, just blowing up abortion clinics, picketing funerals and harassing the mourners of murdered gay people, seeking to ensure that anti-discrimination laws are repealed to that non-Christians and gay people have trouble finding or keeping jobs, etc.
Is it not a belief among Lefties that everyone has a right to be offended and such feelings of being offended should not be questioned?
I'm not sure what 'everyone has a right to be offended and such feelings of being offended should not be questioned' even means. Personally, I would put it this way: No one has the right not to be offended. Freedom of speech belongs to everyone, and should promote discourse and learning. If one is offended by something, one should say so, say why, and make her case, not call for the offensive statement to be censored. That's my view, and, I think, the view of most of those you're calling lefties.
"Controlling what people see and hear is a blatant attempt at controlling what people think and believe, and is a common practice of both cults and totalitarian organizations." ~~ The Mohammed cartoons ring a bell?
Yeah. Do you really think that those of us on this side of the political aisle approve of censoring Mohammed cartoons or the horrific reactions to them? How has America come to be so divided that we habitually straw-man and deligitimize our political opponents? It's so sad.
"It's a more insidious version of the everyday advertising manipulation we all undergo daily no matter where we turn." ~~ Insidious? If that was no advertising, how would the consumer know what is available? Public service announcements for acne cream....paid for by tax dollars, I suppose.
I think the point was that the churches who are reacting are not merely advertising the movie's content, but actively discouraging people from seeing the movie. Of course, there's nothing wrong wiht discouraging people from seeing a movie per se, but when it's done because, and only because, a movie promotes ideas contrary to that of a church, such is indeed insidious. Discouraging thinking and discussion is insidious.
I come from a Jewish family. (Though I'm an atheist myself.) When Passion of the Christ was released, many in my family were decrying the film WITHOUT having seen it. I knew of rabbis who were imploring similar boycotts, even protests, without having seen it or truly discussing what was in it. I was appalled. I said so. To members of my family, from whom I expected better.
"What say you?" ~~ I have said it.....have at it folks! (Expectations of the usual insults and tinfoil-hat conspiracies in 4...3...2...1)
I hope you don't think I've insulted you. Just responding.
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[Editor: ignore=off]I don't know anything about trolls; I merely don't enjoy foolishness, especially institutionalized foolishness.
Posted by scout at May 20, 2006 06:58 PM
Insitutionalized foolishnes leads some to believe there was a virgin birth (haha) and that one can never have salvation except through the life of someone long dead who may actually be a myth. That same foolishness leads people to believe they are better then others because they believe the baby Jesus loves them and hates everyone else. Unfortunately we see very clearing the history of this institutionalized foolishness; the MILLIONS of deaths resulting from people fighting about who'se imaginary friend is better. The sooner we see religion go the way of the dinosaurs, the healthier life will be for children and all living creatures.
Posted by Monica at May 20, 2006 07:52 PMHa ha, my mother the ape. That must be what passes for humor in ultra religious cults like yours.
And I for one, am grateful for that infection of rebellion, otherwise we might still be under the thumb of the church or worse, mad would-be prophets like yourself. Rebellion is what brought you the right to peddle your silly-ass pseudopsychological message of evil as well as my freedom to make fun of you for doing so. If my children have been imbued with a sense of rebellion, I am glad, because they'll resist the efforts of your ilk when you try to recruit them into your cult. You are no better than these bandwagon preachers decrying a film they've never seen because someone told them it was bad. And they've discovered that the shriller they get, the more attention they get as well - enough to make it worth their while to boost box office. Like them, you've used the opportunity of the topic to preach your brand of fanaticism. Like I said, you are the very definition of a troll.
But at least we've shown pessimist why the Christianists are up in arms about the DaVinci Code. They're using the movie's popularity to boost their own collection plates. After all, why should the Catholics be the only ones to benefit from the calculated opposition to a guaranteed blockbuster film?
Posted by iamcoyote at May 20, 2006 08:00 PMOh and by the way scout, the Rapture has already happened and you got left behind because of your Pride. HAHA
Posted by Monica at May 20, 2006 08:12 PMI think maybe "The Last Temptation of Christ" got their goat, just a tad.
Posted by Retired Catholic at May 20, 2006 08:21 PMRC, I remember that one. The godbots were rabid. Sure made me want to see it. Great film, I thought. But I'm a sucker for supernatural movies in general and Willem Dafoe in particular.
Posted by iamcoyote at May 20, 2006 08:26 PMGood one, Monica.
Posted by iamcoyote at May 20, 2006 08:27 PM"I think I could turn and live with the animals. They're so placcid and self contained.." Dont be so quick to knock ("made by God") apes Scout. No ape ever ran a death camp or built a nucleur weapon. If they consider, they might consider the suggestion of familial connection as slanderous as you seem to.
Posted by jondee at May 20, 2006 08:46 PMI haven't had time to read the comments in this section, but I find this whole charade absolutely ridiculous. Just to show you how ridiculous, the Today Show, broadcasting from Rome, featured a week about the Da Vinci Code. With all the issues in this Country, we fixate on some piece of fiction and act as though the world is coming to an end. God people, get a life.
Yes, the Catholic Church probably is upset, because exposing their support of a cult is not good PR. The sect is shrouded in secret, so any exposure is extremely unwelcomed.
Have we become so confused that we no longer know fiction from non-fiction.
J Michael, agree. I have said the same thing here many times.
Im starting to think that if 'em Mooslims would just stick to putting a bullet in the back of the head of non-combatants (and not say "God is great") Bagley would have nothing to talk about.
Posted by jondee at May 20, 2006 09:03 PMBut I do not think that we have to worry about these folks sawing off peoples heads on video-tape while screaming "God is great!"
Nope. Marines put kids in rooms and pop them in the head. Nothin like a sploded baby's head to prove superiority.
coyote, OK, so your mother was an ape?
Science shows we are related to apes. You know. Genetics and the fossil record, which I guess don't exist in your world. But it beats the hell out of believing that god made a monkey man to worship only god, and if the monkey man doesn't worship god sufficiently, god burns the monkey man in hell...because he loves the monkey man so much. Please. Tell me which one is more rational? What egomaniac creates something to worship him?
I take no credit if I appear to show some original thinking.
I give you credit because you don't show original thinking. Dominionist and christian reconstructionist, but nothing original. You should maybe read some books. Now, your takes on history are original...not grounded in fact..but original none the less.
This concrete picture is most often grounded in our very personality, but a personality of rebellion.
This is original, but also really stupid. Again, read some books.
Encinopide: Did you see the History Channel production, where anthropologists sculped a head of what Jesus might have looked like?
The end result looked just like Mel Brooks. Isn't he Jewish?
Have any no-god people ever gone door to door to talk truth to the skinned knuckle tribes?
Posted by TIKI AL at May 21, 2006 12:09 AMSince so many of you hate Catholics so much, which I am, then why don't you all just go to hell, where there are no good Catholics.
Posted by Brian Bell at May 21, 2006 03:43 AMIf you were born in Baghdad, you would be a Muslim. It's called generational brainwashing. I love it when "good catholics" wish us to hell. Jesus would be so proud of you.
No heaven, no hell, sorry, we are just stardust waiting to be recycled. But don't worry, when you die you won't even know the church was wrong.
You won't feel a thing.
Posted by TIKI AL at May 21, 2006 04:28 AMfirst, entertainment, of any kind need not be truthful
second, religion, of any kind, need not be truthful
third, a combination of religion and entertainment need not be truthful
so, you have a combination of entertainment and religion. This is the way to be nice about it.
or, you could say that religion is not truthful, as it is not based on any facts at all
entertainment is truthful, because it makes no excuses for it's lies.
what really makes me laugh is that anyone would consider any of this ought but entertaimnent? you spend 2 hours watching a movie or sitting listening to some fancy dressed dufus telling you things to get your money to move toward gods big pocket book, same difference. One is more honest about what they are presenting
Posted by at May 21, 2006 08:09 AMBrian, the baptists would say there are no good Catholics in heaven, either. It's all a matter of belief, or unbelief, in my case. I don't begrudge you your belief system, but I do think it shouldn't be used to tell me how to live my life. I might question your continued allegience to an institution whose policy was to ignore widespread child abuse, then cover it up when victims tried to point it out, but that's to be expected, don't you think? But I blame the heirarchy of the church, not the congregants, who are also the victims of power run amok. At some point, however, you have to question your own allegience to the institution, and wonder if your own continued support is enabling the abuse and coverup. That's between you and your faith, but when it's plastered all over the front pages everyday, at some point, people are gonna comment on it, and not all comments will be supportive. Sorry about that.
Posted by iamcoyote at May 21, 2006 08:10 AMNo heaven, no hell, sorry, we are just stardust waiting to be recycled. But don't worry, when you die you won't even know the church was wrong.
There is also no evil or good. It's just what we make of it. At least that's what the Founding Fathers thought. New Age Enlightenment Rational Diests the lot of them (except Washington and some farmer from New Hamp, I think). Too bad we've moved so far backwards.
Since so many of you hate Catholics so much, which I am, then why don't you all just go to hell, where there are no good Catholics.
?? No clue where this comes from. I've only seen hatred of stupidity coming from the good people of this blog. I've seen contempt for those pushing "faith based" non-science, "faith based" morality and "faith based" control of others lives. Assuredly I've seen that. Where would you ever get the idea that anyone hates catholics here? And there is no hell...unless you consider the Bush administration. We could get a discussion going about hell on earth given the current situation.
Posted by phidipides at May 21, 2006 08:51 AM"Anybody else get the feeling that the stupid danish cartoon brouhaha is the new "why didn't Ray Nagin use the busses?"
Well, Ray Nagin did not use the school buses. As much as you would like to ignore the fact....well, it is a fact.
"Especially when teabagger's flaying that rancid dead horse?"
"Brouhahah?" A concentrated effort on the part of Muslims to intimidate the western press is, simply, a brouhaha? Riots. Dead people....a brouhaha. I think you are....ummm... mistaken.
"I hope you don't think I've insulted you. Just responding."
No offense taken. A very well reasoned post on your part.
"Im starting to think that if 'em Mooslims would just stick to putting a bullet in the back of the head of non-combatants (and not say "God is great") Bagley would have nothing to talk about."
No, not at all. The willful ignorance of the Left always produces something worthy or ridicule.
"Nope. Marines put kids in rooms and pop them in the head. Nothin like a sploded baby's head to prove superiority."
Marines as baby killers: that is just so 70s....so Viet Nam.
Posted by Bagley at May 21, 2006 09:12 AMTrivializing atrocity. So Brother John Birch, so Young Brownshirt, so "worthy or ridicule." Me done now.
Posted by jondee at May 21, 2006 01:08 PMSee....no one knows a damn thing!
Humans are just afraid to perhaps find out that there really is no meaning to life...we just are, we exist and then who knows....now wouldn’t that be something?
Why does it make sense that a chimp has no soul and just exists, and even though we share 99% of it's DNA, we go to a special place?
Why would just ceasing to exist scare anyone? I don't want to go to heaven and see my French teacher again, or travel to hell to observe my ex-wife getting married for the fifth time.
DISCLAIMER: Bush not included in the 99% shared DNA group of chimps.
Posted by TIKI AL at May 21, 2006 10:40 PMI don't know anything about trolls; I merely don't enjoy foolishness, especially institutionalized foolishness.
Except for the institutionalized foolishness in your sacred fairy tales, of course...
I find it amazingly funny to see the difference in reactions amongst the rligiously insane on this issue. I was subjected to a pressure sales job aimed at trying to get me to go see Mel Gibson's Passion for Torture. Now the same people are trying the same sort of pressure to get me to avoid seeing the Da Vinci Code.
Whatever suprtstitions make you happy in your little world, God Squadders. Just stop expecting the rest of us to live by your rules, and accept that your fairy tales have some connection to reality.
I have it from a high authority that DaVinci Mode is all true. The movie reviewers were paid big bucks to pan the thing. I wasn't going to see it because after Terminal, how can Hanks redeem himself in my eyes? I have a party of buds seeing the matinee tomorrow at our local Regal. Shit, who can afford evening ticket prices? Way above post had it in spades, where was the anger when the pedophile shit was going on? Catholics never wanted their folks to know the truth, only their truth.
Posted by Mal Feasance at May 22, 2006 02:43 PM