"Evangelical Christianity is losing about 88% of its children - at the age of 18, they are leaving the church and they are not coming back or at least they are showing no signs of coming back. And if that is even remotely true, then we have serious problem."
If you want a secular society, school the children in the church. Theocracies discredit themselves over time because the church is corrupted by the state.
The catch is, getting to that "over time" period.
Posted by herbal tee at May 29, 2006 05:09 PMIf Southern Baptists want to marginalize themselves further by quitting the public schools, then go on ahead. They'll all become unemployable morons, and the schools can focus on people who actually care about ideas, the world, people, etc. It's sort of like the old question: are reactionary thugs more dangerous within the system or outside it? Well, they've gained control within the system over the last two decades, and the rest of us suffer. I'd rather them kick themselves out of political society and descend into irrelevance. Then the thinking members of the Southern Baptist Convention can reclaim that body and boot out the fundie trash for ruining one of the great branches of American Christianity.
Posted by Elrod at May 29, 2006 05:21 PMBush is destroying alot more than our public school system.Try the Bill of Rights,The Constitution,our economy,our reputation; the list goes on.I get the feeling that it is purposeful--to make us little mindless robots like the Jesus freaks who fork over 25%of their income to the televangel crackers who are no more Christian than Pontius Pilate.
Posted by Sully18 at May 29, 2006 05:23 PMThe problem arises not just from homeschooling (or private schooling) fundamentalist Christians, or even primarily from them. The real threat to public schools lies in the corporatists, like the Walton family (owners of WalMart), who seek to dismantle public education and "privatize" the school systems by creating corporate-owned schools with rampant advertising to captive, not-yet-fully-formed, not-yet-critical audiences (something large corporations dream about, because brand loyalties are born in childhood). And when corporatists ally with the fundamentalists (as they have in this administration), the threat becomes especially grave.
Our only hope lies in the fact that the goal of the corporatists (the creation of a hyper-consumerist culture) is anathema to the fundamentalist religious communities, which seek (like anti-consumerist liberals) to find ways to shelter their children from consumer culture. Ironically, unless the fundamentalists who wish to raise children that choose to opt out of consumerist culture can find a way to live with liberals (who share their desire to protect their own children from the destructive effects of our object-oriented culture), they will end up with the very thing they fear the most: a community where parents have no choices and no control over the ways their children are raised.
Posted by raisin at May 29, 2006 05:36 PMCome on, if public schools have proved anything since WWII its that THEY DON'T WORK AND WILL NOT ACCOMODATE THE NEEDS OF DIVERSE AMERICA.
I am so tired of reading the BS that people are picking on our public schools and they do such a great job blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
This is a lie and always has been -- giving the schools more money won't help. Teachers that have been in the system for 20 or more years are SERIOUSLY OVERPAID and their unions do everything they can to screw the new teachers and continue to give raises to the people that do the least and have created the most problems.
I didn't support NCLB, but some form of accountability is needed because public schools have consistently shown they cannot and will not work with diverse populations.
They whole system is screwed up from the teacher-training at post-secondary schools and the dysfunctional local school boards. Our public schools represent a gravy train for the elite that are constantly demanding more while taking away from the resources devoted to the most disadvantaged among us.
This is the way it always has been and it is the way public schools always will be -- the whole system needs to be rebuilt.
Since schools have always under-educated large groups of students, it is a lie to proclaim that it is the fault of NCLB. It is time for change and if NCLB is the catalyst for that change, so be it.
The system is broke and it is time we honestly discussed it instead of pretending that somehow the dishonest and elite people that run our schools are somehow "victems." In fact, they are the source of the problems and it is time to hold them accountable for their incompetence and intentional repression of our most needy children.
Posted by at May 29, 2006 05:56 PMOn the local public radio this past week, there was a week long examination of the future of high schools in North Carolina. All kinds of stakeholders and students were heard over the course of the week. One thing that surprised me was there was very little resentment toward the "No Child Left Behind" program. While some teachers and students acknowledged that it short changes time devoted to critical thinking by focusing some 56 hrs a year toward tests and test taking, all agreed that it was a push to accountability and that was a good thing. In fact, one expert from New Hampshire pointed out that the NCLB-Act mainly uses the power of the purse to make states deliver on the standards that they themselves set (state-by-state, not Federal standards). After what I heard, I believe public schools will ultimately be stronger and better. And they still set the standards by which home-schoolers and academies (secular and non-secular) comply. Teachers are far from overpaid and the resources of public schools are already quite slim. I do not like the testing emphasis, but I think we are on that path and are making the best of it.
Posted by gtash at May 29, 2006 06:12 PMSm prnts stll bjct t th hmsxl mntl mlsttn f thr lttl ns.
[Editor: ignore=off]When people are stupid, they are pacified.
Posted by Thomas Ware at May 29, 2006 07:01 PMAs opposed to the more direct kind that you're prone to Bendito.
Posted by jondee at May 29, 2006 07:51 PM"Elites" is code for relativly affluent non-rethugs. "The system is broken" That must be why the best candidate you could come up with out of the "non-elite" private school system is an intellectually stunted, functional illiterate who's idea of a vision for America's future is keeping it safe from flag burners, queers, and human/animal hybrids.
Posted by jondee at May 29, 2006 08:02 PMIf people educated in public schools are so smart, how come they dont know that all you need to do is accumulate a $200 mil war chest and all the little privatizers will form a fellatio line in front of you?
Posted by jondee at May 29, 2006 08:10 PMI read a news article the other day that reported that high school prinicpals are quitting at a high rate.
In other words, not only are public schools losing a whole lot of qualified teachers, now it is being reported that the "generals" in public schools, the principals, are bailing out.
Now, the Christian fanatics (with their attitude that our public schools should be more like Islamic madrassas) will say, "see, see, public schools are failing the students," and therefore should be replaced with the Christian fanatics' version of sharia-spouting, ultra-conservative madrassas.
On the other hand, any sane U.S. citizen who's been paying attention will realize that the Christian fanatics have been plotting this overthrow of our public schools for the past 30 years. And it all revolves around stripping public funding from all public, cooperative projects around our great nation.
When understood in this light, then the entire plan of the religious fanatics and the Republican Party is quite clear...quite insane...and quite evil.
For instance, public highways and roads are like public schools. Both show parallel tracks involving the degradation of the public infrastructure. The Republicans have whittled away over time the public expenditures for these cooperative, democratic endeavors, in an attempt to hide what they are doing.
The result?
Stage one of the Republican Plan: sell off public assets to private, Republican-controlled companies.
Stage two: once all public property has been sold off, then the Republicans will have effectively conducted a coup, and their "ownership" society will have supplanted our democracy.
So, we have public schools being financially undermined...and private schools have been promoted by Republicans as the solution.
We have public utilities being undermined... with privatization being the Republican solution to a problem they caused.
Public roads? Same thing. Republican solution? Toll Roads.
Public hospitals? Same thing.
Anything public is fair game to these anti-democracy, Republican fools.
But you see, the Republican strategy is two-pronged.
Not only are they directly attacking the public funding of democratic, public institutions, they are also attacking revenues through their very one-sided tax breaks for the ultra-wealthy in America. And they even try to hide this from people. A one-time tax "rebate" for taxpayers, while the Republicans try to make the tax breaks for the ultra-wealthy permanent. And the Republican strategists who came up with this nefarious plan throw some bones to the middle-class, hoping that middle America won't realize, until it's too late, that they are actually getting poorer as the ultra-wealthy rake in the big bucks and consolidate even more economic (and political) power in their hands.
Thus, I must conclude that the current Republican regime, with their greed and completely immoral agenda for America, are the gravest danger our Democracy has ever faced.
The Nixon cancer has metatasized and now looks to destroy our Democracy piece by piece, inch by inch, public school by public school.
And the Christian fanatics, who are hardly Christian, are helping the Republican Party destroy our Democracy. Thanks, but no thanks.
Hey, Christian fanatics, I hear the Rapture Express calling your name. Don't you think it's time that you self-Rapture and go meet your maker? Why wait? Since you're already saved, then why are you hanging around? The Lord awaits you. Go to the Lord, and stay the hell out of our hair. And take your irreligious Republican Party pals with you.
I say we give 'em South Carolina and offer to pay their moving expenses, if they're out of the other 49 states by midnight, 12-31-06.
Posted by Jim Faith at May 29, 2006 08:54 PMAnd don't forget the powerful teacher's union, you know, "terrorists" the sec. of education called them.
Why the Right Hates Public Education
Posted by Sharon at May 29, 2006 09:00 PMThe only reason to obliterate public education is to make a class of elites. Deny the common person (that means anyone who comes from a family earning less than $300K a year) access to knowledge and you keep them trapped in circumstance from which there is no way out.
Education means mobility.
The goal to ruin the public school system, to eliminate it, to privatize it, to voucher it to hell, is for one reason and one reason only:
return us to a feudal state.
Return us to Charles Dickens England where all of the wealth is accumulated in 2-10% of the population and the rest of us are paupers and beggars and can be beaten and taken advantage of.
Education is essential to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. So much so that our Founding Fathers advocated free Universities.
If you don't like your local schools, get involved in your local school boards. Many decisions are made there. We pay for the schools. We have a say in our schools.
Teachers do not make too much money and are completely restrained in their abilities to teach via red tape and BS standardized curriculum which teaches to the test. There is very little "out of the box" teaching allowed.
Education and access thereto should never be returned to the elite. Education and innovation and upward mobility - a shot at the American Fucking Dream - is what makes America, America.
Destroy it and there is nothing left.
Just drones without a say in anything.
The fundies would love a bunch of people who never question anything. People who are trained to follow 'god's law' as it is interpreted by fucking man, never thinking of the possibilities beyond.
Twisted world.
Posted by Anjha at May 29, 2006 09:01 PMKids get hearing tests and help in communication skills (the better to learn) through the public school system. Maybe that's too much like national health care and the fundies can't stand it.
Posted by Sharon at May 29, 2006 09:04 PMGreat post Oracle.
Posted by Anjha at May 29, 2006 09:05 PMKids get hearing tests and help with speech and hearing problems in the public school system. Maybe that is too much like national health care for the 'pukes.
Posted by Sharon at May 29, 2006 09:07 PMOOps that first one errored. Sorry for double post.
Posted by Sharon at May 29, 2006 09:08 PMOne one hand maybe they're right; what else but a failure of education can account for all the morons voting this rethug slime into office?
Posted by jondee at May 29, 2006 09:14 PMTeachers are far from overpaid...
BULLSHIT!!! But compare their salaries to others in their communities that work 9 months out of the year. And don't give me that crap about "but they "do in-services blah blah blah blah"
NO THEY DON'T and those that continue their education take classes that expect little or nothing from them.
Posted by at May 29, 2006 10:18 PMAgain, tell us what distinguishs fearless leader as an example of the best that the non-elite private school system has to offer. I mean, he's supposed to be the best of the best right?
Posted by jondee at May 29, 2006 10:36 PM"If you want a secular society, school the children in the church. Theocracies discredit themselves over time because the church is corrupted by the state."
BS, Theocracies discredit themselves because the people running them are fallible (or fallen if you wish) and susceptible to greed, power mongering and evil just like anyone else.
Piety never stopped man from being tyrannical and evil.
Governments and religions are organized institutions run by fallible men. They, the organizations, are all corrupt, always have been and always will be.
That the they manage to do some modicum of good while managing their corruption is their greatest challenge and their greatest success.
Neither religions or governments corrupt the other they always rot from the inside with the arrogant .
Posted by j swift at May 29, 2006 10:37 PMElrod nailed it in the first sentence.
then we get this gem:
But compare their salaries to others in their communities that work 9 months out of the year.
Aside from the fact that this is a BULLSHIT! argument (being married to an educator, I'll be happy to put up salary/benefits broken down into $/hr against most skilled positions), I find it really sad that we argue about teachers being paid too much.
You'd think a society would say, actually put a high value on educating our kids. Why you begrudge someone who educates our kids a decent wage is beyond me.
You want to go after real waste in local, and federal budgets? My notebook is overflowing with ideas. Nah, you want to go after educators.
Oh and would you mind pointing me to an educator that actually takes 3 months off a year? The many primary/secondary educators that I know, take 6 to 8 weeks.
My wife teaches at a university. During her 2 teaching terms she works 6 days a week, 11 to 12 hours a day. Oh and since a portion of her salary is paid by federal research grants she is mandated to take 4 weeks unpaid a year.
Posted by Simp at May 29, 2006 11:35 PMI've had 2 of my former mentor teachers tell me that if there's anything else I can do in my life than teach, I should do it.
I've heard this same reasoning in 2 other fields I've been involved in: Art and Theatre.
I'm not talking about art education - One is a Social Sciences teacher and the other is an English teacher.
Do you know how damn frightening that is? We've moved education to a point in our world where it's viewed as . . optional.
Posted by idiosynchronic at May 30, 2006 04:53 AMA home schooling hub university here in Loudoun County Virginia, Patrick Henry College in Purcellville, is losing students and faculty because SURPRISE: no freedom! Independent thought is frowned upon....religious freedom is discouraged. Students are told to report what church they attended on Sunday; if it don't fit, you quit! Out on your ear if your church isn't on the approved list. The story got big coverage in local papers and the WPost Metro section a few weeks ago. One of the professors now heads the local Republican committee, whose membership is plummeting. Prospective members whose beliefs don't jell with the whole, are denied membership. Not quite the big tent Reagan envisioned for the GOP.
For now, Americans have the choice to quit schools, or say fuck you to political committees who can blackball you. How soon will that choice be denied us?
Where are the Martians who are supposed to come down and observe this madness? I want their report!!!
Posted by Mal Feasance at May 30, 2006 05:52 AMI just heard that my cousin and his wife who've been married for 12 or 13 years have only exchanged Xmas gifts once in all that time. The wife is a teacher and the husband a business man turned teacher. Doesn't sound overpaid to me. Bet Old Anonymous up there thinks daycare workers and nursing home workers are overpaid too. He doesn't value service. And I'm sure he is a he, since all the jobs I've metioned are traditionally filled by women and I imagine women value them more. And man hold the purse strings. Now who exactly thinks Hillary has a chance to be president?
Posted by Sharon at May 30, 2006 06:10 AMidiosynchronic,
I was going to return to school to teach and my best friend said, don't do that, go straight into speech pathology. She'd gotten her teaching certificate and kept right on in school for speech path. Her mom is a recently retired English teacher. My friend said "you don't get paid enough for all the work, and you don't get the respect you used to." I've taken her advice.
I guess if parents think like Mr. Anon. above, that little Johnny's teacher is overpaid, it must be hard to deal with them and their resentment.
That is "return to school to LEARN to teach" and now I'm learning to be a speech path. which is therapy, a kind of teaching.
Posted by Sharon at May 30, 2006 06:22 AMI guess if parents think like Mr. Anon. above, that little Johnny's teacher is overpaid, it must be hard to deal with them and their resentment.
It's a whole host of things: no personal contact rules (which I admit I've not got a problem with, I'm not a physically touchy-feely guy except with my family), NCLB strictures and funding, the attitudes of parents, the movement of school administration from focusing on child development and accomplishment to risk-based management.
This weekend I listened to a friend of mine farther along in the curricula taking a human relations class - which is about cultural diversity - and she felt damaged after having to share information to her class about herself. The problem is not that her privacy was violated by the class but that the instructor has a poor grasp on the class using that information against her in discussion.
Posted by idiosynchronic at May 30, 2006 06:58 AMGreat insights, Oracle.
"Conservatives" lost support for public schools forty some years ago when the Supreme Court stopped the pious displays of little Billy and Sally "praying" to their Lord and Maker before their arithmatic lessons. This occurred sometime in the early sixties, I believe, and reactionary religionists (a major component of "conservatism") have been on the warpath ever since.
Public schools are both a political and an economic target for the Capital & Crucifix Party. Political because they see the teachers unions as invariably supportive of the Dems, and economic because they represent a "market distortion" that is not readily available for corporate exploitation. Every activity must be subject to the divine "Free Market", remember, that's the First Commandment of Holy Capitalism.
Finally, they'd like to transfer a lot of the public funding of publically run institutions over to privately run corporately owned schools---i/e. more corporate welfare.
Anyway, there is no doubt whatever that the Right Wing is virulently opposed to the public schools, and is undermining them and fighting every battle they can with this beleaguered institution.
It's not a surprise in such circumstances that this proud traditional American institution is obviously failing and probably cannot be revitalized any longer: it's on life support, with no real alternative ready to go.
Sorry, kids, but you're gonna be spending lots of time prayin' to Jeebus in "science" hour. And not being told about sinful, demonic things like sex or (shudder with horror) birth control. And that most science is just a bunch of unproven "theories" with alternate Jehovah-based explanations, which frankly are much more persuasive and likely!
How many think a nation can preserve economic prosperity in a global economy with deficiently educated citizens? Just more evidence of irreversible national decline----engineered by blindered, blockheaded, fundamentalist "conservatives", aided and abetted by the Criminal Republican Party.
Posted by euzoius at May 30, 2006 06:59 AMNot to put too fine a point on it, but the major supporters of the Repubs, the "free-marketeers" and the neo-Confederate "christianists" BOTH have an interest in developing obedient, non-critical-thinking automatons for the purposes of bilking. The former, via commerce, the latter, via religion.
And Anonymous? Everytime I hear moaning and groaning about our "failed public schools", I can't help but think of my personal history. In MY Oklahoma public high school, I took enough calculus to test out of 3 hours of college calculus (and another 3 hours of college analytic geometry) and got through half a semester of college Calc II before I saw anything new.
And if "the powerful teachers' union(s)" are so omnipotent, why does their pay lag so far behind? It just doesn't make sense to me. But then I was public schooled....
Posted by bartcopfan at May 30, 2006 07:43 AMThat "forty years" mentioned above got me thinking. Public school in general is how people meet "diverse" others. Hmmmmm, yeah, the 'pukes don't like that. Harder to divide and conquer if "the other" is thought of as human.
"powerful" union is relative I guess. "Existing at all" is powerful in this society. And somewhere I read that even many liberals who aren't unionized think that union members should quit complaining about lowering wages since they get benefits, etc. In Michigan, people are happy to HAVE a frickin' job these days. And lovely Mrs. 'Puke GovWannabee said MI workers are paid too much. She probably meant unionized auto workers. Hmmmm, maybe Mr. Anon isn't a guy.
Posted by Sharon at May 30, 2006 08:33 AMAfter what I heard, I believe public schools will ultimately be stronger and better.
Nope. Kids are complaining they are just taught to the test. There is no room for much else. Schools are hiring instructional design specialists ($65,000.00 per year) to target instruction at individual kids who don't meet standards on the tests. Schools are ending art, music, extra-curricular activities and social science to leave more time and money to test and meet "standards."
Teachers that have been in the system for 20 or more years are SERIOUSLY OVERPAID
You fucking bet! My cousin teaches 7th grade Algebra. 6 classes a day, 5 days per week. Beyond instruction and individual help for students, she grades over 700 homework assignments each week. She leaves the house at 7 in the morning, and generally gets to bed at midnight. Her entire weekends are devoted to grading papers and getting her lesson plans in shape for the next week. The only way she can get away from her duties is if she can find someone who'll help her grade papers. Her district adopted online grade reports, and parents are driving her up the wall if they don't see a homework assignment posted the day it's turned in. Add in mandated testing at the state and federal level, and her days are a general hell.
Teachers that have been in the system for 20 or more years are SERIOUSLY OVERPAID
You bet! And morons like you are the reason my cousin, an outstanding and caring teacher, will soon be moving on. She has way too much money, at $34,000.00 a year, for the 105 hours she puts into her teaching each week during the 9 months she works. And the 3 months shes off? Unpaid prep time for the following semster. I, like you, think she should be willing to do this for the entering salary she was paid when she started teaching. $21,000.00 per year and a $2,000.00 dollar nut for having a math certification.
How many think a nation can preserve economic prosperity in a global economy with deficiently educated citizens?
Ask the Taliban for a show of hands.
So much so that our Founding Fathers advocated free Universities.
Big split amongst FFs. Jefferson thought public education should be mandatory. Hamilton thought education would be the bane of the society. People who were educated would think, and therefore they would make poor laborers. The free University stuff would have been for the elites only.
OK, P-dip, the FF who I agree with advocated free Universities.
(clarification with proper amount of snark)
Posted by Anjha at May 30, 2006 10:14 AMMry, rlly dn’t knw whr t bgn n rspns t yr pc, s cn’t sm t fnd wy t kp ths cmmnt ndr tw pgs. Bt ’ll try.
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n rlty, th N Chld lgsltn lgtmts th vry rsns r schls fld drng th 70’s: w dstryd r fmly nstttn. Hw? dvrc, r-mrrg ftr dvrc, nbrn nfntcd, prmtn f wmn t hv thrty vr mn, ttl dstrctn f th schl sb-cltr f slf cntnmnt, dstrctn f schl dscpln, nfctn f th trmnds scl dprvty glrfd nd dlzd by th Hllywd Clny tht hs nw bcm r Hllywd mpr, glrfctn f hmsxl/pdphls, nd, bt nt lst, th ttl dstrctn f r rlgs nstttn bsd pn th Bbl. ll f th bv cms t f th Blshvk bbl f scl dstrctn.
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Nw, th Blshvks fnd n ncssry t ttck th fmly n ll frnts, bt slwly. Frst th Bbl ws trgtd bcs tht ffrd stblty. Stblty, y knw, hs tndncy t cntn, t rsst chng. Th Blshvks lv chs, dsrptn, dstrtn f scl vls, nd r ttlly ntlrnt f scl stblty. Gt th pctr? Smltnsly, bth th md nd dctnl systms wr ttckd, dstryd, nd rblt nt th mg f dprvty tht w hv tdy.
Th Blshvks r th mrcn Trjn Hrs. Thy kckd r sss, bt, ncrdbly, w lv t. Why? Bcs ths lttl pnks gv s wht w wntd, th glrfctn f dvncy. Fr th Bbl s hrd wrk, f nly bcs r nnt dprvty wll lwys chs t d th ppst. t s ths nnt dprvty tht pwrs p r Blshvk crp lrds nd thr mny hndlrs.
Mry, t’s qt th ppst f yr pnt, th N Chld ct s ‘prgrssv’ lgtmtn f r fld schls, sng th mthd f sttstcl frd s thntcty. Ths, ll th grl kk ‘dmnstrtrs,’ y knw, th whrs rnnng rnd tryng t mk th schl ppr ‘dstngshd,’ vn whl thy prp nd prmt th vry scl dvcs tht shrds vry sngl thng f vl lft frm th schl f 50 yrs g, gt ll xctd f thy cld jst shw n pnt ncrs n tstng rw scr.
nd vryn knws tht r schls cn bcm vn wrs, s whn n, r svrl, f th kds sht th plc p.
Snc thy cn’t g ny lwr sttstclly, thn vry nsgnfcnt ‘scr’ ncrs lgtmts th scl nsnty tht w cll, ‘schl.’
Mnwhl, vry ld tmr tchr rmmbrs th dy whn wmn dmntd scty, rn thr fmls lk tyrnts, nd prdcd kds tht hd chnc t sty t f prsn. Nw w jst mk vry crm lgl. vry schl f tdy cntns th scl dvnts f ystrdys prsns. Whl tdy’s mthrs f ll scl strt dlz th prsttts f ystryr nd wlk th strts wth ll th ttndng rgl f th ncnt hrms. W’r tst.
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[Editor: ignore=off]mry, nd t dd tht hv tght hstry t r fld pblc schls fr vr tw dcds, bgnnng n th 70's.
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Hwvr, whn th dvnt hmsxl/pdphl prnts, nd thr prvrtd ‘prgrssv’ Blshvk sympthzrs ntr th pctr s t th dvlpmnt f thr yngstrs, thy cnsdr th Bbl src f drngd nfrmtn, whl, f crs, tlrtng nd lvng vry thr pssbl frm f vl cn. n shrt, thy nt nly lv th vmt thy’v crtd, thy rn t vry pl f vmt f nly t rll n t s f t w sm frm f nw prsttt csmtc. nd thy frc thr vmt-lv pn ths tht knw th trth f th Bbl.
n shrt, tr Chrstns r ntlrnt f ll nt-Bblcl dctrns f dmnsm. Whl, dmns, wh r lgn, tlrnt vry sngl frm f flth nd dprvty, whl cnsdrng th nly xstng trth, th Bbl, s ‘drngd.’ S, ys, th Trth hs bn sccssflly ttckd by th Blshvk dmn lrds frm bth sds: th lft nd th RGHT. Wtht qstn, th nly wy tht r Blshvk mny hndlrs, thr crp lrds nd pltcl frnt-mn wld hv pssbly bn vctrs vr r lrdy wkn scl nstttns f sy 100 yrs g, ws d t th fct tht th rgnzd ‘Chrstn’ chrchs hv lwys bn flld wth th Blshvk Trjn Hrs, wpn tht fd ff f mn’s nnt dprvty. Wht ws th ‘Chrstn’ wknss? Th Chrstn hypcrt, f crs. Fr th hypcrt, lk hs dmn ltr, pstrd s n tht frd Gd. Hypcrts jn chrchs fr slf gn, n n frm f nthr. Th Blshvk dmns sd th hypcrt fr prpgnd lvrg: thy dstryd th chrch frm wthn. Ths w hv ‘Chrstns’ tht ndrs r DC trtr plcs, vn whl th DC pnks jl th chldrn tht fllw th trtr rdrs.
nsnty pld pn dprvty.
[Editor: ignore=off]Insanity piled upon depravity.
sorry had to laugh at the last line, as it sums up what I think of your posts in general.
Posted by Simp at May 30, 2006 01:11 PMslaves don't need education
neither do soldiers
the bankruptcy law
the outsourcing of jobs
the destruction of public schools
the endless military expansion and privatization
the launching of preemptive wars in the name of "freedom"
the depletion of the national treasury
the selling off of U.S. assets
the highest prison population on Earth
the final "ism" that justifies a police state at home
education is becoming a facade, like everything else about America, whose greatest asset is its self-agrandizing propaganda
"The Land of the Free" is a commercial advertising slogan
the constitution (RIP) has been eviscerated
the congress are corporate jackals hand picked for their pliability
the courts are full of corporate lawyers
i cannot speak civilly of the criminals in that other branch
they will soon crash the economy
then
checkmate
But that's what you get when you raise your children on lies and television, wooden "values" and fear.
Woe betide us all.
mry, nthr thght, f y wll, whch dds mr dmnsn t yr pc. Th dd thng s tht nrly 90% f mdrn 'Chrstn' rgnzd chrchs flly mbrc lbrl dls, nd hv dn s frm th vry bgnnng, bt ntnsfd lbrl dls drng th lst 400 yrs (th rsn w hv 400 ‘Chrstn’ dnmntns tdy), nd clmxng t th dprvd hyp f cnfsn t prsnt.
Crp, jst th thr dy, whn trnd n th TV fr mnt, stppd n n th prvrbl TV hypcrt, Pt Rbrtsn. H ws ptchng gvng mny t hlp Rssn Jws mgrt t srl. Thr s n wy tr Chrstn wll spnd mny n sch flshnss, nlss w hv th dtc-srl-nsprd-n-Crsdr dlgy. nd ths s xctly wht ths fl, Rbrtsn, ws ptchng.
Y cld g t ny mdrn ‘Chrstn’ chrch tdy, nd thy wll glflly ptch thr pgn flshnss by ttlly mbrcng vry sngl thr pgn rlgn prctcd n ths cntry, thnks t r crp lrds nd thr pwrfl rlng ntns knwng hw t prdc mntn f chs f nly t dlt th trth f th Bbl. f crs, r crp md pnks lv t pff p th pgn ‘Chrstn’ chrchs s mnstrm Bblcl, mjr trnk f thr plcy f ttl dstrctn f tr Chrstnty.
t s crtcl t rmmbr tht r crp lrds dvd nd cnqr. Thy mk fls dvsns t hlp crt chs. Ths, yr rgnzd chrchrs r n th sm sd s th mst dprvd lbrls, nd vc-vrs. f th dst vr ccdntlly sttld lng ngh, t wld rvl ths fct t ll n-lkrs. Thy wld thn ttck th crp lrds f xplttn nd dmnnc.
Crp lrd tctc: fll thr mnds wth msh, nd thy wll fllw. Yh, w’r tst.
Cnsdr: frst th nstttn f rlgn frgmntd, thn ll thr nstttns fllwd. Ths, f t wsn't fr lbrl, Gdlss Chrch, w wldn't hv kk Blshvsm!
Hw'y lk m, nw?
this act was a response to the incredible level of academic ignorance ‘graduating’ from our high schools, colleges, and PhD programs of the last 2-3 decades.
No. It came from the "Texas Miracle" (Tejas Mackarel)of Rod Paige during the Busch mis-Governorship. You know, the one built on lies about results from testing. Like the lies religious freaks tell about "abstinence only education."
Thus, the feds were pressured to centralize procedures and test students and to make sure that every teacher is credential for, and teaching in, his content field.
No. It was pushed by Busch and supported through congress by testing companies which, after all, are subsidiaries of major corporations and their lobbeys. $34 billion in 2004. That ain't chump change.
disgusting perversion, confusion, chaos, and social blindness.
Republicans!
when the deviant homosexual/pedophilia parents, and their perverted ‘progressive’ Bolshevik sympathizers
Where to start? I.......Snore, BZZZ, Snore (phidipides pays appropriate homage to this statement by being thoroughly bored into a deep sleep).
education is becoming a facade
Naw. Stop the testing. Get the religious perverts and their weird ideas about what should be taught out of education, and things will be just fine. Want America great? Lower the cost of a University education. Make Community Colleges free. Make all post secondary vocational education free. We have the finest post-secondary education system in the world, bar none, but it's becoming inaccessible. Let's use it.
The American education system has never been about quality. Never. It's about access. Everyone gets some. The quality is up to the parents, local schools, and districts. Too many poor schools are marvelous, and too many rich schools suck, but everyone has access. You can get stupidity at any level (Busch?). Overall, the kids aren't bad. Just more narrow and less cosmopolitan than in the past because teachers are so constrained in what they can teach.
the FF who I agree with advocated free Universities.
I agree with those FFs, also (proper snarklessness assurred).
Posted by phidipides at May 30, 2006 05:33 PMGary North
Oh yes, the guy who was SO DAMN SURE that Y2K would lead to the destruction of civilization. There's some shrewd analysis and insight.
Of course, Crawford Beavis was elected that year, so maybe it's just happening slower than he thought it would.
Posted by Mike G at May 30, 2006 05:44 PMmry, n lst thng, bt tchr py. Wll, wht s mr mprtnt thn chldrn? dd t ths thr nds f prntl lv, gdnc/dctn, tc., nd w s tht th tchr s vcrs prnt. Tchrs wr, nc pn tm nt lng g, prt f th fmly nstttn; ys, nthr nstttn tht r crp bys dmlshd fr slf gn nd dmnnc.
Prnts nd tchrs r th mst ndrvld nd ndrpd ppl n r cptlstc scty, whl, t th sm tm, thy r th mst mprtnt t vryn, ncldng th dmn crp lrds nd thr mny hndlrs. Bt, f th crp lrds gv th kds th d thy nd, th grwn-p chldrn wld qckly vrcm th crp ndcd scl dz nd kck thr sss rght p tht tht hngn tr.
sbmt tht thr s nthng mr mprtnt thn sld Gd-frng mthr n ny scty, yt, thy r th mst ndrvld nd cnfsd grp f ppl tdy. Nxt n ln r th tchrs, wh r ls th nxt grp f ndrvld ppl. Crp, thy py pnk ttrny’s $500.00 n hr, t tlk sht ll dy. Nw, tht’s cntrst nd cntrdctn ll n n lttl prgrph.
n th thr hnd, ntl w cntrl r crp lrds, dvs tht ll tx prps b vtd 'n.' Th pnt bng s tht mny tnds t lgtmt whrvr thrwn; nd th crrnt rlng ds hvd rnd r schls, tchrs nd chldrn. Snds lttl lk rq? t shld, fr wht w s n rq s wht w s hr, bt sbtl.
[Editor: ignore=off]I believe teachers are far from overpaid.
I say that making simple comparisons to the wage earner around me---truck drivers,IT workers,government employees (Federal and State,non-teaching positions), doctors and lawyers, architects and draftsmen, surveyors and the folks in the building trades generally, accountants and groundskeepers and ----in short, I don't need a survey or anybody else's personal testimonials to inform me of my opinion, thank you.
Posted by gtash at May 31, 2006 05:40 AMI submit that there is nothing more important than a solid God-fearing mother in any society, yet, they are the most undervalued and confused group of people today.
I strongly disagree with this statement, and would ask scout to try and provide some non-faith-based logic to justify this submission.
However, I do agree with him and the others here who note that teachers are underpaid, overworked, and unappreciated. I was going to try and get a teacher's degree here in Michigan a while ago, and after considerable research, came to the conclusion that teaching was not going to be a profitable career choice. I have no idea what the anonymous clueless wonder is basing his statements on - but is seems to me that s/he has no real world personal interaction with any teachers. I know of no one who has ever dealt with teachers personally who have considered them overpaid.
tm, mdrn mthrs fl t mthr sng lv nd crrctn. sng jst n xmpl, mng hndrds, lt’s tk th crp lrd dp, Spck. W nt tht th rly Spck cstgtd crprl pnshmnt. H jmpd n th Blshvk bnd wgn, nd jmpd ff jst bfr dth. Th lt Spck bck-trckd n hs rlr vws f sng crprl pnshmnt, bt t ws t lt.
Prhps th nly rlvnt TV shw tdy r th ‘Nnny’ shws. vry ld tm tchr knws wht gs n nsd th mdrn mthrlss/fthrlss hshld. Th nnny scrpts/rlty r qt ccrt n shwng th bzrr cnfsn f mthrs nbl t cp wth hr ld chld, lvng bng md rght nsd hrslf. Yt, sh s t lss n bth lvng nd crrctng th chld. Th chld rns th hs, gs t schl, nd rns tht, ls. Th mthr, cntnng t ct th rl f th mcbr, rns t th schl nd bcks p hr chld’s kk bhvr, ll th whl prtndng tht sh s shwng ‘lv’ fr hr chld. Pr psychss.
nthr mnr bty f th bv TV shws s n ccrt prfl f th hsbnd. Thy r lwys n th prphry, t f fcs, whch s ccrt ntl th chld rchs th g f 5-6. Th shw crrctly fcss pn th chld nd mthr, nd th rsltng bhvr f th chld’s (rs) nnt dprvty.
Th bv s jst th mst mnr f snpshts f th ttl dstrctn f r lrdy wknd Chrstn cltr f 100 yrs g.
Tm, ls, th trm, ‘fth,’ s mch sd nd lmst lwys nvr ndrstd. Bt, lt m try hr, nd ’ll kp t shrt. Frst, trsh vrythng tht y prtnd t ssct wth th wrd. Nw, fth s Chrst. Whn Chrst pns r ndrstndng t th Bbl, thn w hv ndrstndng f Chrst. r, whn w r gvn bsc ndrstndng f th Bbl, w hv ndrstndng f fth.
Chrst GVS s fth, fr fth s prt f Hmslf. Ths, whn Jhvh (Chrst) sys tht H wll dwll n Hs ppl, Gd s tlkng bt th bv Chrst/fth ntrng th mnd f th lct, gvng ndrstndng nd fr f Jhvh.
Th ‘Chrstn’ hypcrts, fr th pst 2000 yrs, prtnd t hv sm mn-md vrsn f th bv, mch s th Bddhsts prtnds t mprss th mn-md kk sprts by crwlng n hs blly cpl mls.
Fnlly, d nt tk n shrd f crdt fr ny f th bv ndrstndng. Th ndrstndng tht hv ws rvld by tr fth, s dfnd n th bv.
n mr thng. Y wll hv t srch fr nd wd bfr y’ll fnd nthr tr Chrstn tht wll knw wht m tlkng bt. Dn’t bthr gng t ny f th mdrn/rgnzd chrchs, thy dn’t hv cl.
Hwvr, hv cm crss fw lct n th ntrnt; th mst rgnzd r fmlyrd.cm.
Hey, scout:
What part of I strongly disagree with this statement, and would ask scout to try and provide some non-faith-based logic to justify this submission. was too difficult for you to understand?
Maybe you could try again, except this time without all of the occult fairy tale references, and your personal opinions, and possibly provide some factual evidence for your claims? This is just more of your standard Jeebus malarkey with no basis in reality. Honestly, I expected more from you than your standard boilerplate supertitious nonsense.
Got any scientific research studies that show that modern mothers fail to mother using love and correction? Have you even got any proof that Spock (and I'm guessing you're talking about Dr. Spock) is a corp lord dupe? Plus, using TV shows to make rational arguments to try and prove that there is nothing more important than a solid God-fearing mother in any society seems a little, um, irrational.
Go clean all of that occult superstition out of your brain, dude. and feel free to try and use your melon for a little more than spewing christian fairy tales when somebody asks you to prove something.
Oh yeah, one more thing...
I would have to search far and wide before I'd find another rational human being that would know what you are talking about. Your blasphemous heresy and distortion of the biblical fairy tales are an insult to truly spiritual people everywhere. Don't bother trying to defend these ludicrous points of view with any more of your pagan noise.