I'm becoming impressed at how fast these things are being deconstructed - and the MSM seems to cave in after a couple of days.
That is a good storyline to bang out, and it has the added merit of being absolutely correct.
Great advice,but how do you get Dem leaders to overcome their empty fears that "kneecapping the bastards" who have been "kneecapping Dems"for years will somehow result in a voter backlash?
Ben Kagan
These are the same people (at least I think they are human, although lately I have sincere doubts) who would LOVE to charge a journalist for revealing "classified" information they don't want released.
This is scum-pond politics as practiced by Rove and his spawn plain and simple!.
Democratic party WAKE UP! When you are dealing with evil, you must go for the throat ... to hell with the knees, tear out their damned jugular vein!
Unfortunately, most Hill Dems are quite happy to instead try to move to the right of the Reps on this stuff.
If we're going to talk about "banging out" any storyline at all, maybe we could get those Dems to recant their "fixing the policy around the intelligence that was fixed around the intelligence" over Iran. Fat Chance.
Truth is, while its nice to use this stuff to score political points, the kind of Dem who has any chance of sitting in the White House is more likely to use it all (especially Bush's signing statement methods) as useful precedent rather than stopping it when they eventually sit in the Oval Office. Is anyone so naive as to think otherwise without first asking the damn question?
http://cernigsnewshog.blogspot.com/2006/05/pressuring-dems-on-presidential-powers.html
Regards, Cernig @ Newshog
P.S. Steve, thanks for not responding when I first sent you that post. Either you simply didn't notice or you decided to "ostrich" it. I'd love to know which but I would more love to hear youir opinion on the post. -C
Posted by Cernig at June 23, 2006 04:36 PMActually, Negroponte CAN declassify this if I remember correctly. I could be mistaken but I seem to remember a bit of a dust up (on the web) a few weeks back about an executive order that gave previously unheard of powers to high level administration officials. I believe the original threads were in regard to Bush allowing Negroponte to use his discression to selectively declassify information as Bush and Cheney appear to have done with Plame.
Funny how it only took a few weeks to actually abuse this authority.
ffakr:
If you find a link on that issue, please let me know.
Thanks
Posted by Steve Soto at June 23, 2006 04:58 PM"Ambassador Negroponte in particular — may be playing a partisan role in the 2006 election," California Rep. Jane Harman."
Duh, you think?
Rick "man-on-dog-sex" Santorum is a lunatic.
Posted by Christopher at June 23, 2006 05:28 PMAll politics, all the time. That is the GOP. Losing power is not an option. Anything is OK to retain power.
Posted by T2 at June 23, 2006 05:52 PMDms hv bn pltczng thr l fr ths fw yrs, bt cntrng th l wth fcts s bynd th pl. Th ctl xstnc f tngbl vdnc f Sddm's mlfsnc mst b dsllwd whl th ntngbl f l Gr's hllcntns r bslt. h th grndsty tht wld rl f nly th pps wr nlghtnd.
[Editor: ignore=off]I think ffakr is referring to Bush's delegating authority to Negroponte to allow companies to disregard SEC filing rules when they are working for "national security".
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/25/ap/politics/mainD8HQI0V80.shtml
Regards, Cernig @ Newshog.
P.S. So it was likely "ostrich" then?
Posted by Cernig at June 23, 2006 06:38 PM"never mind that they were pre-1991 weapons that weapons inspectors already knew about and had nothing to do with BushCo's justification for war"
If true, why weren't they destroyed? Your position and Saddam's is that the weapons did not exist...they did. They had been destroyed..they hadn't. The lie is yours because you now know what you are saying is false and you continue to rationalize.
Bendito, you bring up no facts related to this thread, and yet manage to drag Al Gore into this somehow.
bye bye.
Posted by Steve Soto at June 23, 2006 06:42 PMWhere is our future as Americans? The future is only as bright as the decisions we make today for the next generations to come. What directions and paths we choose to follow will be our children’s fate to follow and live with. We have to be wise and not just think of ourselves but the many generations ahead of us.
We need leaders now more than ever.
Posted by Papamoka at June 23, 2006 06:54 PMGive up on the Dems. They are no longer the answer and will never again have any legitimacy since they are part of the problem and apparently not up to being an opposition party.
Read the Declaration of Independence if you want to know what we are up against and what the only answer is.
Posted by jim at June 23, 2006 06:59 PMThat picture of Santorum looks as if he's being Santorumed.
Perhaps nasally, and they airbrushed it out.
That picture of Santorum looks as if he's being Santorumed.
Perhaps nasally, and they airbrushed it out.
Posted by rcauthen at June 23, 2006 07:14 PM
*****
That's his "dog fuckin'" look.
Posted by God Of War at June 23, 2006 07:21 PMThat picture of Santorum looks as if he's being Santorumed.
He is starting to resemble Lieberman a little!
it really is too crazy. the lunatics are running the asylum.
the munitions that this cerebral-deficient heralds as proof of saddam's evil intentions were munitions made in the usa, chile[under usdod's blessing]; that the usa supplied to iraq when saddam was our vassal. munitions that don rumsfeld, at the behest of bush1[george herbert walker bush] went to baghdad to deliver, and was photographed embracing saddam[odd, isn't it, how the msm refuses to air these photos, refuses to discuss reality?].
you might almost think that "mandog" was trying to pressure the bushithouse to give him some more "juice". as i see it, "mandog" thinks that by bringing up these republican-supplied iraq-iran war munitions[pre-1988] he can open old wounds that should have been festering, but became closed[by demtillians along with reptillians - both parties equivalently, eagerly homicidal].
and that the threat of these revelations will propel the bushithouse to throw everything into pa to preserve his incumbency.
"mandog" has learned that he has the same bushit status as katherine harris. and he is threatening the potus in an effort to retain his incumbency.
"mandog" is so stupid that even the k street gang don't want him.
Posted by albertchampion at June 23, 2006 07:58 PMToday's post at WMR describes these weapons as coming from the Carlyle Group and Rumsfeld, Reagan's Special Envoy to Saddam Hussein. Old Hat that current regime is fully aware of. Santorum is just another GOPedophile screaming about morality while having none. Fox will give any loon airtime.
Posted by peacemonger at June 23, 2006 08:19 PMSteve, Spain didn't blow up the USS Maine ---but we went to war against her empire, anyway, because that's what we do. The Zimmermann Telegram was a pipe dream shared between the Germans and the Mexicans ---but we used it, anyway, to go to war against the Hun. And the Gulf of Tonkin incidents? Recognized as bullshit before the Viet Nam War was even over ---but we had the Commies to fight and, so, went to war.
When are you going to admit that the causes of America's wars run deeper than any one of them?
Y'alls obsession with the politicization of the evidence for WMD in Iraq is futile. Nobody thinks it's important. The war is what matters now ---and all this other stuff is just a distraction.
Posted by Toby Petzold at June 23, 2006 09:20 PMWe've seen yet propaganda go from (eventually Intelligence to) Administration to chosen journalists in a Press outlet panel, then to opinion and comments then to representatives in Congress. But in this case, the 500-pounds rant goes straight from Intelligence to affiliate Representatives. Out-sourcing journalists and administration and the opinion, to influence the law makers and start a campaign of "believe me if you will" absurdities.
They have to lie to show how much they conform, how hard they work for the plan.
How did they preventivly knew it, got it, claimed it was news ?Very nice point you make ! And 'kneecap them' is much better than 'go to the throat' (Webegeeks), because it leads to tilt the balance of every Republican's compulsive rhetoric, rather than silencing voices… when you can.
It's clever to attack the method, the regularity of the procedure and the agenda's inconsistencies, than to react to portent ideas that might be already framed in a polarized perspective, i.e.
Who care about his ideas anymore, who care being truthful ? Not the Republicans let's hope for them. But they pretty much care "to follow the same book." They've lost any originality, even free thinking, but they invent thousand ways to delay and repeat the same mantra — as if they have the Right not to care about what it means, and just say they're anti-liberal. On any matters, they're waiting for them to come, again. As for Coutler, 'liberal' clearly means promiscuity.
But Republicans really value being consistent with themselves, they do fear the law and work hard to wall themselves into an simple but endlessly arguable narrative. They don't need to be right, because they can always, at any point, argue they believed they were right and to have acted accordingly.
Rumsfeld don't know what he doesn't know…
Tell them they are not legal, their procedure is not complete, their friend under inquiry. Their logic is wrong, not only blattantly biased. Give them advice on how to better follow the rule if they want embody something at all.
They're special kids, only have parrot-tantrum.
The best way I've discovered to explain the actual relationship America has had with Iraq is to utilize the Old West.
Say America (Rumsfeld in particular, in this case) is the sheriff. Iraq and Iran are both the bad guys, ruthless killers who hate each other because of some mysterious past between them.
Well one day Iran decides to take hostages, has it in real personal for America. So what does America do? We haul Iraq in, set him down, and explain real simple-like the situation at hand. We give Iraq a gun with bullets then we sit on the porch of the Sheriff's office and wait.
Few days later Iraq comes back after shooting Iran in a dramatic duel, but he also settled some personal scores around town. So what do we do? We tell him he can either leave and never come back, or he can hang from the gallows. So Iraq leaves, but he's an evil man, so one day he tries to rob Kuwait.
Now America has been doin just fine as sheriff for a while, even settled the score with the Mexicans (er, Russians). Turns out we won't ever need Iraq again to do some dirty work. So this time we throw him in a cell, starve him, then charge him for all the other people he killed when he went after Iran. Our evidence is the gun we gave him to do it, and now the ammunition back at his ranch.
Look, you can argue who was right or wrong in all of this, about justice and fairness and tough decisions to be made. What you can't argue about is the moral complexity involved, and how criminally it has been ignored, marginalized and often ridiculed.
Posted by wait a minute at June 24, 2006 12:52 AMToby,
Quit embarrassing yourself. Bush has failed us and conservatism has been exposed to be a grand failure for our country. Quit apologizing for failure.
If any serious argument could be made that our boys found actual WMD in Iraq, you think maybe Dead-eye Dick, von Rumsfeld or Nero might announce the fact? Might play it up a bit themselves? Or at least pile on after Reactionary Ricky's presser?
It did turn out to be an embarrassing little problem for them, after all. Sanitarium seems to me to be an unlikely messenger of such momentous news.
And Toby, glad to see that you now understand that, just as it has in the past, our government intentionally and knowingly misused the data and misled us into war---welcome aboard!
In no time at all you'll be questioning the whole militarist operation!
Posted by euzoius at June 24, 2006 07:12 AMRICKY ROUNDLY RIDICULED
It's Unanimous - He's A Dork
*Why isn't the White House backing him up?
Because it's crap and they've taken enough crap on this issue.
*Now Tricky Rick went on the www.kdkaradio.com Honzman show and claimed the White House just doesn't want to engage in this issue because it's sick and tired of it.
*But of course they NEVER tire of repeating the SAME TALKING POINTS if they think anyone will believe them. It is the height of absurdity to suggest the White House wouldn't beat the drums if they didn't know they'd get nailed as fibbers.
*Tricky Ricky - scaling new heights of absurdity on a daily basis.
Posted by john mcintire at June 24, 2006 08:21 AMThe war is what matters now ---and all this other stuff is just a distraction.
Wrong. How we got there does matter. Your boys ran on accountability, now you just want to whitewash it. Holding them accountable is the fastest way that we are going to solve Iraq.
BTW last I checked it was members of your party that tried to reinsert WMD's back into the discussion
Your boys need to be exposed for the complete policy incompetants that they are. Then we can get some adults in charge and actually solve the problem.
My God! They refuse to even investigate the known $9 Billion that went *poof*. Its just a big money hose that they can direct whereever they feel like it.
My family of 4 is paying $120/month for this insanity.
Posted by Simp at June 24, 2006 08:59 AMI am not ruining my good aluminum baseball bat on that bastard's kneecaps. I save it for worthwhile goons.
Posted by tempus at June 24, 2006 09:51 AMDems have been politicizing their lie for these few years, but countering the lie with facts is beyond the pale. The actual existence of tangible evidence of Saddam's malfeasance must be disallowed while the intangible of Al Gore's hallucinations are absolute.
Bendittohead: what peyote are you taking. I'd like me some. Can I order it through a catalogue? Or do I have to go to a Repug PAC? Either one is fine, just tell me how to get as fucked up as you! Fine, fine, stuff, for sure!
Posted by tempus at June 24, 2006 09:56 AMToby, don't set them up for me on a tee. You said:
"Y'alls obsession with the politicization of the evidence for WMD in Iraq is futile. Nobody thinks it's important. The war is what matters now ---and all this other stuff is just a distraction."
Wrong. As I noted last week, the most recent NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll specifically showed that by a 57%-40% margin, respondents want a new Democratic congress next year to dig into pre-war intelligence. Toby, the truth is that this is the GOP's Achilles heel the next two years. If the Dems retake the House and launch an investigation of this and find what I suspect they will find, the GOP will be severely harmed.
And the GOP knows it
Posted by Steve Soto at June 24, 2006 11:35 AMSteve, the problem with that scenario is that you're banking on the investigatory power of the House Democrats being stronger than the Commander-in-Chief's power to make this war an even more permanent fixture of our lives.
As our successes against the Mohammedans increase, the spectacle of a seditious and unpatriotic Democratic Party will undermine your nominee on her way to the White House. Not because she isn't against the war, but because too few of her party are.
And for all his troubles in 2004, Bush won because the American People recognized that they shouldn't reward our enemies by electing John Kerry.
They'll do the same again, if necessary, with HRC in 2008.
Posted by Toby Petzold at June 24, 2006 04:15 PMCorrection: too many of Hillary's party are against the war.
Posted by Toby Petzold at June 24, 2006 04:18 PM"And for all his troubles in 2004, Bush won because the American People recognized that they shouldn't reward our enemies by electing John Kerry."
Yeah, so when Bin Laden sprang that October 2004 video tape to ensure that Bush got reelected, the voters picked the guy Bin Laden wanted.
Posted by Steve Soto at June 24, 2006 07:40 PMUsing their logic one would say Japan has kamakazee pilots aimed at us.
Posted by keith at June 25, 2006 06:36 PMOh by the way. Do Chemical weapons leave mushroom clouds?
Posted by keith at June 25, 2006 06:39 PM