Duckman:
9/11 should have been a police/swat type of action against al Queda and that reprehensible murderer OBL, with a military excursion against their state sponsor in Afghanistan[...]
Snarfable!
Because, if there's anything that the anti-war Left believes in, it's the license of the intelligence and law enforcement communities to domestically surveill our ultra-violent Muslim guests and swoop in like superheroes to nab them at the last minute.
Good stuff, man. You've made my night.
Posted by Toby Petzold at June 23, 2006 11:45 PMLet's not forget that, besides the oil, Goerge would not have been able to prove to his mother that he was more of a man than his father.
Posted by Lurch at June 24, 2006 02:07 AMToby,
Quit making a fool of yourself. You have invented an imaginary strawman who you put to bed with yourself everynight it seems. Keep punching that strawman. I guess it makes swallowing the Bush apologia a lot better.
We should all be ashamed of ourselves. Here's the WH trying to protect us by spying on us, and we, being ungrateful, have upset Uncle Dick.
"What I find most disturbing about these stories is the fact that some of the news media take it upon themselves to disclose vital national security programs, thereby making it more difficult for us to prevent future attacks against the American people," Mr. Cheney said, in impromptu remarks at a fund-raising luncheon for a Republican Congressional candidate in Chicago. "That offends me."
"That offends me"? Cheney's very existance "offends me".
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thenewswire/#a023699
Judith,
Who cares what Cheney says? He's a freaking international joke. Even here at home only 19% of people approve of the idiot. I just laugh everytime he comes up with anything and so should you.
>But then how could we control the oil in the region?
Looks like we won't be controlling oil in the region much longer. It will be controlled by Iranian mullahs and Muqtada al-Sadr. And Muqtada's been busy talking to the Saudis.
Posted by john fletcher at June 24, 2006 06:26 AMThis group was more aspirational than operational," FBI Deputy Director John Pistole said. But Attorney General Alberto Gonzales described the men as "homegrown terrorists" who "view their home country as the enemy."
Duckman, It's statements like this that have me worried. What's next, the local Progressive chapter meeting because they "view their home country as the enemy."
We just have to keep that radical nationalism alive or we don't love our country!
toby's right. the president is doing a great job of smoking out osama. even more importantly, he captured the miami brain trust, and it only took one informant! he's like jack bauer with a bigger package. more of the same, please!
Posted by toby fan club at June 24, 2006 07:06 AMUS out of the muslim holy land! thank you, slaves.
get rid of the radical secularists in iraq! thank you, slaves.
hahahahaha!
Yeah, they do like to multi task their criminal behaviors, oil control and citizen control!
And I love my country, just not my leaders.
Posted by Duckman GR at June 24, 2006 07:32 AMMission Accompolished!
Saddam is out. No WMDs!
The war is over so time to bring the troops home.
Mission accompolished already!
So Mr president just what course is it that we're staying in Iraq? Mission accompolished. Now what? You need a NEW resolution from congress to pursue terrorists outside the country. There's plenty of them you are unleashing on us the people. Do we have any rights you are oblidged to honor?
You're going to establish democracy? Was that a part of the resolution giving you permission to use the armed forces to eliminate WMDs in Iraq? You're obviously not qualified to establish democracy. You have to try practicing it yourself first.
Democracy is minority rights. The smallest minority is the individual. Individual rights! Above all else, democracy establishes the highest office there is, citizen and makes all other offices servants. Do you know what servants are? Try being one for a change before we have to fire you. Gazing into the crystal ball I see citizens exercising their offices. When servants don't serve they get fired. Do you have your resume out?
Posted by Bill at June 24, 2006 07:39 AMthank you slaves ...
this lunacy comes from the most powerful men in the most powerful nation in the world ? a mentor, retired "tanker services" executive in the middle east, (1950's through 1980's) once commented about american diplomacy "..... we forget, we're dealing with the oldest horse traders in the world. we rarely win a deal. " the fact the so despised "freedoms" al queda swears to destroy is being accomplished by there adversaries , points to the goat in this deal. people have been stealing other people's stuff always. it's sad to see but not surprising. lie with dogs, get fleas.... we're a' scrach'n
oh, this is rich (CNN via marshall):
The family of Phanor, who according to the indictment calls himself "Brother Sunni," told reporters in Miami he was innocent of all charges and was a practicing Roman Catholic, not a Muslim. "They all call themselves brothers and they well-mannered," said his older sister, Marlene Phanor. "All they was trying to do was clean up the community. We are Catholic. He's Catholic."
catholifascists, i guess. since they wore uniforms, are they prisoners of war?
Posted by benjoya at June 24, 2006 08:47 AMGiven that Cheney is the most powerful person in the world it is not wise to just dismiss him. In order to get our foreign policy to be more (rational/effective/humane) we need to understand his worldview and his motivations.
He obviously believes things which are not factually true, therefore he is self-delusional. Why? What is frightening him so much that he can longer distinguish truth from desire? Once a person is this fearful than the next leap is one to where the end justifies the means. So spying, torture, pre-emptive war, and unlimited militarism are all justified.
There is probably no way to make Cheney behave rationally anymore, but it should be possible to prevent his fear from being transferred to the US public. If this can be achieved then he will be seen as just another conspiracy nut (whatever his particular conspiracy is) and disregarded.
Arguing over his talking points (as his echo chamber does) just keeps the fear level up. We need to redirect the discussions in a new direction.
Posted by robertdfeinman at June 24, 2006 09:36 AMToby has a fan club? Cool! (Jesus Christ)!!!! I read with great sneering the Newsweek article about Bushie's trip to Vienna. The dick-headed MSM cannot UNDERSTAND why Europeans hate Bush?
Posted by Mal Feasance at June 24, 2006 09:39 AMLike 9/11, this Miami "bust" smells like a false flag. Terra terra terra, terra all the time. Watch Out! Them Gay Muslum Mexican Terrorists are comin' to gitcha...
Posted by Thomas Ware at June 24, 2006 09:43 AMThe GWOT is just a dodge with respect to the financial records. The purpose of monitoring SWIFT is economic espionage for the benefit of those favored by the NSA and Bush&Co so they can beat their international competition.
I wonder when the Europeans are going to wake up and start complaining that Bush&Co is spying on them for economic gain, not crushing terrorists.
Remember, follow the money. That is just what Bush&Co are doing worldwide. The real question is how they are profiting from their secret knowledge.
Posted by Nobody at June 24, 2006 10:00 AMWait a minute. At first I laughed like most. Thought to myself "what bullshit." These guys are not AQ.
Now I have been thinking that this might just be the start of the police state.
The only saving grace here is that it seems these guys will be given public defenders which implies some kind of due process.
Look at the couple of facts though: 1. they are poor 2. they are black 3. they were practicing some kind of non-traditional religion
There is different info that they might have been mixing some kind of voodoo, one of the family members said that one of the group left when they started practicing "magick".
It appears clear to me that whatever radicalism that was coming from them was spawned by the "informant".
There was even info that said that at times they were doing good works, "cleaning up the neighborhood" "handing out bottled water after the hurricane".
So, we have a group of guys that were not mainstream.
This serves the administration in several ways. They get to parade around some poor guys saying that they foiled some big plot, they get to make people afraid - afraid enough to allow even more privacy to be taken away and the govt gets to see how gathering up people and claiming them as 'enemies of the state' goes over with the public.
People, this concerns me deeply. If they were planning to do harm then they do need to be tried and if found guilty, pay the price. But if they were just set-up and if they are just a test as to how much more power that this admin can grab, how much more of a police state that the public will allow, then we are in big trouble.
It will not be difficult for 'informants' or 'undercover' people to infiltrate all kinds of groups and cause massive round-ups of people. In the sixties the govt had undercover people go in and attempt to incite anti-war protesters and peace groups in order to turn public opinion against those who were against the government.
Are these defendents going to go to prison or to Gitmo. There is an enormous difference.
I am really afraid of this administration. I do not trust even a utility van parked outside of my house. That is bullshit.
Posted by Anjha at June 24, 2006 10:05 AMmaybe these guys were collaborating with the rocket scientist who wanted to take down the brooklyn bridge with blowtorches.
Posted by benjoya at June 24, 2006 10:12 AMBen: Brother SUNNY's sister said in her interview that his nickname has been "SUNNY" since he was a little boy, and she even spelled it. I heard her say this myself.
Traditional media taking poetic license again?
Posted by TIKI AL at June 24, 2006 10:17 AMt s bsrd t mn vr n mgnd lss f frdm whn y'r rsstnt t flly dfndng th vry ntn whrn frdm hs flrshd. Lkws snrng t th ncvrng f vn th mst nlkly schm f mss mrdr mng s dmnstrts mntl dsrdr tht vls prtsnshp vr prsrvtn.
[Editor: ignore=off]Ben: Don't trip over truth and entrapment on your way out to the Kool-Aid stand.
Posted by TIKI AL at June 24, 2006 10:39 AMthroughout the long history of white/corporate power all opposition, large and small, is dealt with violence and injustice. we :(the usa): imprison, kill inocent people every day all over the wrold, have for a lone time now, of course our leaders are greedy blood thirsty goons it's a hearatage they must uphold. we just don't see the fable america is.
Posted by mark miller at June 24, 2006 11:28 AM"values partisanship over preservation."
I will defer to Benny as an unchallengable expert on such behavior.
Posted by herbal tee at June 24, 2006 11:54 AMDear Wingers: are you fucking idiots, or is it simply recovery from bowling night? These poor bastards were played, both by the WH and the FBI. They in turn, figured the scam out, and tried to play them back to the tune of 50 big.
When are you going to learn that if you want to play the nasty, you have to have a brain or two thinking it out. Your recent attempts are nothing more than idiotic, and I suspect they will continue down the slippery slope.
Don't bother trying to justify this crap, or prey upon a certain segment of American society’s ignorance to get you through this one. You have messed up so badly this time, you may just have to fire the WH janitor, although he has known GW for 40 years.
Posted by tempus at June 24, 2006 12:53 PM...scheme of mass murder among us demonstrates a mental disorder that values partisanship over preservation.
Well put Bendittohead! So when are Bush/Rove/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice/Bolton/ oops! My Complete Fucking Asshole database just crashed. Oh well, I think you get the general idea. Oh, and Santorum's dog has left him for another woman.
Posted by tempus at June 24, 2006 01:04 PMMiller:
throughout the long history of white/corporate power all opposition, large and small, is dealt with violence and injustice. we :(the usa): imprison, kill inocent people every day all over the wrold, have for a lone time now, of course our leaders are greedy blood thirsty goons it's a hearatage they must uphold. we just don't see the fable america is.
And, yet, you're still alive.
Fascist repression just ain't what it used to be.
Posted by Toby Petzold at June 24, 2006 02:34 PM"9/11 should have been a police/swat type of action against al Queda and that reprehensible murderer OBL, with a military excursion against their state sponsor in Afghanistan, to be followed by a major and extensive reconstruction of that battered and war torn state, with no diversion of assets to Iraq. That would have made a bigger, more positive impact for the US on the Middle East than any kind of success that could arise from the toppling of Saddam Hussein."
That's the most sensible, obvious statement to date [not meant sarcastically like some other commenters]. It's exactly what we should've done, what the American people wanted done. The tragedy of the AEI/PNAC obsession with Iraq is two-fold: We didn't do what you suggest, and we did do something else that was incredibly stupid.
You suggest the motive in this "biggest policy failure in American history" was oil. Maybe. But it's also possible that it was simply the action of a bunch of incompetent idealogogues who had no clue how to govern and no understanding of the world we live in. They turned the tragedy of 911 into an even bigger tragedy, one of their own making...
Posted by Mickey at June 24, 2006 10:12 PM
who the fuck are you ?
i nearly died last year and became permanently disabled from a common infection because i can only afford health care for my children.
go play, little shit, i have a real life.