Apparently, Ken Lay died of a heart attack in Aspen.

Wow. My sympathy to his family.

Apparently, Ken Lay died of a heart attack in Aspen.

Maybe they can sell his organs and recoupe some of his employee's retirement savings. Not his heart. That is apparently made of stone.

My roads, as well as much of the infrastruture of the United States, is dying from republi-con neglect. Maybe they can put an earmark in the budget, or we can hire lobbyests, and address the issue?

No kidding, snark. Now they'll have to bear the stigma of his crimes all by themselves.

I can hear it now. Hannity, Rush, Jonah and the like saying the Left hounded a good man into the grave.

I want to hear robertson and falwell say that this is God's punishment for cheating, lying, greed and arrogance.

Apparently, Ken Lay died of a heart attack in Aspen.

I just want to know what he took.

Funny, but I thought Skilling would be the first to commit suicide.

I was listening to Laura Ingraham (don't ask me why) this morning, and she said she was broadcasting from Aspen, Colorado. Our local station broke in with the news that Ken Lay had died in Aspen. Is there some sort of wingnut conclave going on up there this week?

I refuse to desecrate the dead. Except for Coulter...when that bitch dies, I'm gonna piss on her grave.

Is there some sort of wingnut conclave going on up there this week?

It's the July 5th, "Drinking buckets of Iraqi children's blood fest, and topiary show." Only the neo-cons were invited.

And then there's this tidbit from Wapo:

On Friday, federal prosecutors asked a judge to order Lay and former fellow Enron executive Jeffrey K. Skilling to turn over $182.2 million in assets, arguing that their homes and other assets were acquired by fraud.

Oh, and about that estate tax.....

Interesting, ann, maybe the speculations about Kenny boy faking it aren't so far fetched after all! He's taken a bin Laden flight out to parts unknown.

How convenient. So much for repaying his debt to society.

Aspen? Oh, that's right. The Lays enjoyed 6 homes. Including Aspen and the Caymen Islands.

from Bloomberg:

The Furnam Holt Funeral Home in Greenwood Village, Colorado, was called today by the Pitkin County, Colorado, coroner's office to transport Lay's body for autopsy, said a representative of the funeral home who refused to give her name.

So, there will be an autopsy. Couldn't we see some photos of the corpse, though? Sort of like how they showed pics of Hussein's sons.

Now you guys have got me thinking. I'm usually not a conspiracy nut but.....

Isn't it rather odd that Kenny Boy's dear friend W just paid a visit to Graceland last week? And now Ken Lay is "dead"? I think the whole 'the Japanese Prime Minister loves The King' thing was just a front. Bush really went to Graceland to communicate with Elvis! I believe, although I think the truth will be hidden forever, that The King has been enlisted by those at the very top levels of our government to take Ken Lay under his wing and teach him the fine art of 'disappearing oneself'! Who better to help hide Lay than The King himself?

Couldn't we see some photos of the corpse, though?

Who the hell wants to see a flayed-open hispanic pool boy?

I think you're on to something, snark. What, I don't know, but you're on to something...

You know, I was watching the fireworks last night and came up with a thought: How long will it be till firework celebrations will be outlawed by liberals due to killing the habitat of some kind of beetle? Sooner than we think I'm sure.

You know, I was watching the fireworks last night and came up with a thought: How long will it be till firework celebrations will be outlawed by liberals due to killing the habitat of some kind of beetle? Sooner than we think I'm sure.

Ignorant wretch.

uRcoyote: What triggers a "questionable comment" rejection? Am I too naughty?

one less pardon to write.

Can bu$h still pardon him?

TIKI, I'm not sure, did you get one today? It's been slow posting here on my end, I've gotten a couple server errors, and had to repost today. Sometimes, too many links will stop a post. Mary's the real brain behind the curtain, maybe she knows what's up.

But yes, TIKI, you are too naughty. Heh.

How long will it be till firework celebrations will be outlawed by liberals due to killing the habitat of some kind of beetle? Sooner than we think I'm sure.
Posted by Reasonable at July 5, 2006 08:51 AM

*****

Shouldn't you be competing at the Special Olympics?

Gosh, unreasonable, I hope you didn't break any bones with that awkward, yet hilarious, contortion.

I just heard the AP news break about the rape and murder of the Iraqi girl and her family. All last week they were pretending she was a woman, then a young woman. Seems the AP has finally caught up with the facts. And apparently, the two soldiers mutilated and killed were part of the same platoon as the rapists. Connection?

Someone has to post the obligatory "Oh my God! They killed Kenny! You bastards!"

This has been a test of the "questionable content" system.

I think Bush had him killed! (a la Vince Foster).

goose1, bu$h isn't that smart, maybe 'shooter'!

Me above, sorry.

coyote, TIKI, I've found that when I post at the same time as someone else I get that message.

It is the end of july 4th as we know it!

It is the end of july 4th as we know it!

Call Bill O'Reilly. Maybe he'll care.

Thanks coyote, yea I got one earlier on a Ken Lay post, so I put it up on C&L, and understand I am up for a pulitzer.

I was thinking the same thing as you regarding a possible connection between the mutilated soldiers, and the ones charged in the same company. Possible payback?

You know, I was watching the fireworks last night and came up with a thought:

Congratulations!

How long will it be till firework celebrations will be outlawed by liberals due to killing the habitat of some kind of beetle? Sooner than we think I'm sure.

Well there are plenty of people interested in banning fireworks displays in places like Texas because they're interested in preventing wildfires. Wild fires do destroy the habitats of animals and insects so I suppose your fears are already being realized. Of course wildfires also destroy the habitats of humans and, even more importantly, they could potetially destroy businesses or business related assets! You wouldn't want that to happen would you?

We all understand that it would be impossible for you to experience your puffed up sense of patriotism without the smell of sulfer in the air once a year.

Note to reasonable;

We won the War of Independence. We're not part of the U.K.

tiki,

i got a similar message when i tried to post a link to google video (bush kisses lieberman)

Shouldn't you be competing at the Special Olympics?

For all you know, he's posting on the computer labs in Maple-Willow-Larch at ISU. They keep those things open all summer and it's open access.

snark, exactly. Not to mention the fireworks related injuries, property damage, and air quality issues - there were so many people doing their own displays last night, my valley had a cloud so thick, it obscured the hillside only a couple miles away. I love the boom-boom, myself, but man, that's a bit much. Still, I never once thought "but what about the BEETLES!" last night. Odd that the troll did.

7 and\or ben: Were you guys able to repost without retyping?

snark: the fireworks scared the crap out of my cats, not to mention the F-16s flying over our house for the Tempe Town Lake celebration and the fully automatic weapons that my neighbors were providing with their own rockets. I was waiting for the RPGs next.

Or maybe he meant "the" Beatles? Maybe unreasonable thinks fireworks might be the cause of Paul McCartney's latest breakup, and the "lefties" believe that banning fireworks might save his marriage? That sounds reasonable, doesn't it?

It is the end of july 4th as we know it!

Well, having read the link, which you obviously wouldn't or couldn't, it seems it takes the incredibly liberal stance of being aware of what you are doing when setting-off fireworks. You know, such liberal things as: Don't hold them in your mouth when lighting; It's not funny to set them off behind epileptics; Don't put them in a cat's ass and light; and, Be aware it's best not to drop them in a gallon of gasoline when lit, then peer in the hole.

Damn us liberals! Why should we warn three-fingered neo-con children about this stuff?? Is there no end to our leftist ways?? Or their leftists ways depending on which hand they hold the half stick of dynamite in?? Don't we understand it's better to lose an eye than have the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th Amendments?? Why can't we let people drive cars that get 2 miles to the gallon...and we liberals call ourselves freedom lovers! Give me stumps for fingers or give me death!!

Why, Reasonable. You're still here. You may go.

Coyote beat me to it - the number of fireworks related maimings and deaths in the 1960's led to Iowa banning the possession and use of all explosive fireworks containing so many micrograms of gunpowder or more without a license. The ban is widely flouted, but keeps the amount of fireworks-related events at a manageable level for emergency rooms, police, and fire departments.

Of course, sexion & reasonable strike me as the type of idiots that lose at least a few fingers every 4th.

I can't decide which I like more, the low thuump of the mortars or the bang of the shells as the detonate in the air.

7 and\or ben: Were you guys able to repost without retyping?

That's a definite maybe!

There were several fireworks last night that sounded a lot more like gunfire than I'd heard in previous years. Or maybe it was gunfire partially masked by the black cats.

P-dip, did the article say anything about beetles?

Trolls are infected with brain-beetles which thrive on kool-aid. The more kool-aid injested - the smaller the brain becomes.

When the brain becomes small enough, a GOP vote triggers its tiny reward center.

TIKI, Raining at your house? It is here.
After the hottest June on record for Phoenix!

Boy, you guys took that and ran with the "ban those freedom celebrators movement". It's quite entertaining though. And Tiki, I kind of had you penned as a cat lady. How many? 83?

Let's try again, hottest June on record for Phoenix!

If it doesn't come through, I will know it's a plot by Kyl and J.D. Hayworth!

Isn't it a bit early for you to be drinking, reasonable? Cos you ain't making any sense.

It's global warming, SOS. Only the beetles will survive!

P-dip, did the article say anything about beetles?

Well, since it's a British article about fireworks use in Britain, I'm sure we could find a beatle in there. I did not notice one, although I searched with all due alacrity. It did mention something about American seperatists. But it's a British article. Did I mention it's a British article? They were more worried about it upsetting M'lady during her scones and tea...being a British article and all.

I have 2 Bengal cats, which are part wild Asian Leopard Cat. They killed the troll's pitbull next door. Wanna try to pick one up?

OT:
OK trolls, where is the outrage for this Veteran arrested for wearing a t-shirt at a VA hospital?

When the brain becomes small enough, a GOP vote triggers its tiny reward center.

Holy Fucking God this is funny! You hurt me on this one!

Reasonable do you have a point other than trying your hardest to make yourself come across as having the conversational abilities of a sixth grade boy?

Your utter inability to actually engage in an honest defense of your viewpoint has resulted in your being reduced to making juvenile statements simply to incite a hostile response. It's been a rather sad, and incredibly rapid, descent on your part. I'm disappointed. I had some faint hope in the beginning that maybe you really would be worth engaging.

P-dip, since it was a British article and all, I'll bet he was thinking the Beatles. Or maybe Hey Jude was on the radio when he posted his comment. Sounds reasonable to me.

snark, you're right. I don't think Mr. Troll had his Wheaties today. He went all silly way too quickly.

*pokes troll with stick*

C'mon Reasonable, amuse us some more!

Actually Snark, this was started as a "floor is yours" type of thread. And YES i like to get a little excitement going. There's nothing wrong with that. Unless yer skerred to talk and jab at each other. My earlier comment was an attempt at a joke but you guys have no sense of humor when it comes to "trolls". lol.

OK trolls, where is the outrage for this Veteran arrested for wearing a t-shirt at a VA hospital?

Hey, these people arrest Gold Star Mothers. Why shouldn't they arrest a veteran wearing a T-shirt that says "Veterans For Peace". Makes sense to me, or as Bush in Wonderland says: If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary-wise; what it is it wouldn't be, and what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?

Oh yes, coyote, you guys won here. I make a totally outrageous comment about banning all firework celebrations and you guys lap it up. it's really quite funny that i was being overly stereotypical and it turns out you guys really are that crazy. Good luck with running for office on that shit and really think America will be behind you.

Good luck with running for office on that shit and really think America will be behind you.

Just like you guys are behind adolescent boys in Abu Ghraib.

Heh, he should join the Circe du Soliel, he twists around so much! You just plagiarized Ann Coulter by pretending your comment was a joke, though. Or was your calling your comment a joke, the joke? We get it, all right; it's just that right wing humor just isn't funny.

And if you call laughing at your stupidity "lapping it up," then I guess you're right. We laughed it up at your expense. That's real humor. But really, was there a contest going on? And we won? What'd we win?

Why should we warn three-fingered neo-con children about this stuff?

Phid please, we can only have one Django Reinhardt, God forbid his reincarnation be a neo-con!

I make a totally outrageous comment about banning all firework celebrations and you guys lap it up. it's really quite funny that i was being overly stereotypical and it turns out you guys really are that crazy.

You made a crass idiotic comment about a topic that is open for legitimate debate. Has anyone here actually supported the idea that all fireworks displays be banned? To protect beetles no less?

You really don't have any ability to honestly debate anything do you?

Remember coyote, it's all satire when the repukes get called on it!

7: It ain't hot until the planes stop flying at Sky Harbor like the day it was 122 degrees. Rained here this am, not now, that t-shirt deal sucked, he should take it to court.

encinopide: send me a bill for the laptop, I'll give it to the Bengals when they finish digesting the troll neighbor's pitbull.

Gotta admit, that was one of your funnier ones TIKI!!

Now, TIKI's funny. And snark's the one winning. I'm just hanging out making snide comments about beetles. Uh oh! I'm the one that brought up the beetles. Mea culpa, guys. I still don't remember any lapping, though. Maybe reasonable is watching NASCAR?

The lapping was done by you guys reading the article I posted and actually seconding the opinion that fireworks should be banned. Snark, you youself are the one who made a case to ban fireworks. But I like how you twist things later with "Has anyone here actually supported the idea that all fireworks displays be banned?". I guess that was an attempt to make yourself feel more comfortable with your wussiness? hmmm?

But hey, like i've always said i can't blaim YOU for having no balls. It takes giant balls to be honest with yourself and the world. Example: the poor are either lazy or on drugs, national healthcare would really suck, people should be responsible for their actions etc etc. I'll remind you all again, you do know that I invented liberalism right? Yeah I was five years old and thought it all seemed so simple. Then unfortunately I grew up.

Reasonable, I suppose you want to attack me for living off the Government teat because I'm a disabled Veteran. I'm responsible for my actions! I got fucked up defending my country. No one will employ me because of employer insurance issues and the meds I take.
Let's see you repukes make some laws that make some sense so I can go back to work at my former livable wage. Truly help the Veteran, don't just dole out money and meds! Come to bat for the Veteran, make sure I can earn a living. Put in place a program that insurses Veterans to all employers thus taking the onus off the (chickenshit) employer!
Your ilk has had over 5 years to accomplish something and nothing is looking good! Your party sucks at running this country. Face the facts, what have you accomplished? Nothing but unending debt! Some big bad Democrat will have to come by and raise taxes! That's living in reality and having balls!!

The lapping was done by you guys reading the article I posted and actually seconding the opinion that fireworks should be banned.

Could you point out where someone actually "seconded" that fireworks be banned? Discussing the actual dangers of fireworks does not mean anyone wants them banned.

Snark, you youself are the one who made a case to ban fireworks.

Did I? By pointing out that there are actual people in authority positions who seek to ban fireworks for legitimate reasons having nothing to do with saving beetles? I expressed no opinion either way. So if you count me amongst those who 'seconded' the idea of banning fireworks your pulling stuff out of your ass again.

But I like how you twist things later with "Has anyone here actually supported the idea that all fireworks displays be banned?".

Well have they? Again, I expressed no desire to see fireworks banned.

I guess that was an attempt to make yourself feel more comfortable with your wussiness? hmmm?

With my 'wussiness'? You're the one who made a broad generalizing anti-environmental statement and then came back and said "Jeez guys, it was just a joke." You're a real moron.

But hey, like i've always said i can't blaim YOU for having no balls. It takes giant balls to be honest with yourself and the world.

That's another joke right?

Example: the poor are either lazy or on drugs, national healthcare would really suck, people should be responsible for their actions etc etc.

Now is this your balls speaking or is it another 'totally outrageous statement'. Make up your mind man.

I'll remind you all again, you do know that I invented liberalism right? Yeah I was five years old and thought it all seemed so simple. Then unfortunately I grew up.

Right, so you grew up, discovered that the world is not a simple place and have come to the conclusion that the hard things aren't worth thinking about. That much is obvious from the increasingly juvenile nature of your comments. Reasonable's mantra; 'If it looks simple and turns out to be hard just give up.' Congratulations Reasonable. You've aligned yourself with the right party.

The lapping was done by you guys reading the article I posted and actually seconding the opinion that fireworks should be banned.

Could you point out which one of us seconded the opinion (your "joke," right?) that fireworks should be banned? I can't find anyone above who said that. Or are you referring to the British article? It's really hard to tell what you're trying to say.

Really, reasonable, you shouldn't drink so early, as I said. You're bouncing from beetles to bans to articles from the UK about the dangers of fireworks, without any logical progression. IOW, you're tweaking! While it's funny to watch, you might want to see a doctor. You could have a tumor or something.

I'm sure I don't have to remind you 7 that this president (and mind you i'm in the crowd that believes he's an idiot) has faced more setbacks than any president in memory. The worst civilian attack in the history of the US, couple that attack with bringing down the US financial center, fighting two wars, a record of hurricanes in 04, and the worst hurricane disaster in 05. And now here we are, doing ok. We're not great correct, but we're ok. Damn, if I had told you all that would happen in 2000 you'd say we'd be fucked. Guaranteed! Now, I agree with you on Disabled Vets. We should do everything in power to help them.

It's one war, the Global War on Terror! He chose to step on his own dick by going into Iraq instead of finishing the job in Afghanistan and now we're losing there also. We could have rebuilt the infrastructure in Afghanistan and the Muslim people would have loved us. But you know damn well there were no natural resources there. We lost face in the Muslim world by not doing this simple act.
You win by your efforts, bu$h hasn't had any empathy except for his own kind. The wealthy and corporate elitists!

As far as the hurricanes, he's done a piss poor job on that also. My sister lives in the Tampa area, she's got neighbors who still haven't been squared away from 2 years ago. But your repuke congress and president has time to enact some laws to protect the people but refuse.
Please, send me more empathy!
BTW, we are fucked unless the Dems take over congress.

I'm sure I don't have to remind you 7 that this president (and mind you i'm in the crowd that believes he's an idiot) has faced more setbacks than any president in memory.

I remember reading about Pearl Harbor and WWII. Those were some hard times. Oh, and the Oklahoma bombing was pretty hard, too.

And now here we are, doing ok.

Well, what did you expect? That we'd all just fall down in a swoon? Besides you, anyhow. But how we recover (or not, in the case of Katrina) is a whole other issue.

...has faced more setbacks than any president in memory.

Yeah, that whole Civil War thing, state against state, brother vs brother was all very overblown.

Reasonable, I'd like to hear more about your idea that all the poor are either lazy or on drugs.

Apparently there will be no charges for Rush as a result of libidogate.

Of course the irony in this bit of the CNN story makes the whole episode worth it anyway;

The state attorney's office said Dr. Steve Strumwasser's name was on the Viagra bottle, not Limbaugh's.

Strumwasser, who is Limbaugh's psychiatrist, told authorities he "agreed to have his name on the label in an effort to avoid potentially embarrassing publicity for the suspect," according to a filing by the prosecutor's office.

It seems like that was a stellar idea.

7 c'mon man. Amazingly i have a sister that lives in Tampa also. News Flash: Tampa Bay hasn't been directly hit by a hurricane in something like 80 years. So was streching the word neighbor used for effect? Or the word Tampa? It's a moot point really because I happen to believe that the government shouldn't be the caped crusaders you want them to be.

Coyote: WWII was worlds away different BECAUSE when it came time to go to war everyone dropped their differences and fought the war. Also, to compare Oklahoma City to 9/11 is ridiculous, don't lose ALL your credibility to argue.

Snark I really don't remember the Civil War all that much. Those 1860's were much like the 1960's for me, too much booze and reefer. I said "more setbacks than any president in memory". I'll grant wwII time becuase some may still be around that remember it but civil war....not so much.

Yes I believe that 99% of homeless and poor are either lazy or on drugs. No facts, just a hunch. To be honest, I just believe that everyone has a choice. I think if anyone wants to be successful, they can. That's the beauty of America.

that this president (and mind you i'm in the crowd that believes he's an idiot) has faced more setbacks than any president in memory

You bet. Lowest flight scores ever recorded on the exam...it was tough for his dad to get him a "Gentleman's C" on that one.

Oh, you're talking about 9-11. You are correct. And he did everything possible to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. The man's a moron, and a moron's candidate. The two fit together nicely. Hell, I still wonder what you think about him liking to puff a peter every now and then?

I'm pretty sure my right wing sister, who works at CENTCOM, mentioned Charley or some other hurricane that did damage in the Valrico area.
Caped crusaders? How about making sure insurance companies are forced to do their jobs!
I forgot, you come from the school of no oversight is neccessary! Just trust bu$hco and his congressional pals in all that they do!

It was Charley. ""The vast majority of that destruction has been inflicted on Florida, whose miseries began August 13, when Hurricane Charley slammed into Punta Gorda—about 70 miles (113 kilometers) south of Tampa—with winds of 145 miles an hour (233 kilometers an hour). Charley's wind speeds made it a Category Four storm."
Apologize, reasonable?
You've now been downgraded to a lower case 'r'!

7 they might have gotten a little wind but jesus fucking christ do you want the government to come out and fucking fix lawn chairs and shit??? There's absolutely no way that it was anything serious. "The last time a hurricane hit the Tampa Bay area, Florida was in the midst of a land boom. It was 1921, and the combined population of Pinellas, Hillsborough, Pasco, Citrus and Hernando counties was only 135,000."

But hey, keep making false statements, any way to further the cause.

Phid: you're right, he's a moron. I totally agree. Honestly I wish we had a different Rep. candidate to choose from last time. He's the worst representative they could've picked for my views.

Jesus you're obviously not even close to a shore. I've been in 4 hurricanes myself and 70 miles to the north of a hurricane is not being hit. That's a fucking nice day around here.

Snark I really don't remember the Civil War all that much. Those 1860's were much like the 1960's for me, too much booze and reefer. I said "more setbacks than any president in memory".

Ohhhhh! So if it's not your memory it doesn't count? 'Memory' does not imply a personal experience of a given event or series of events.

See, bad writing just leads to so much confusion.

Yes I believe that 99% of homeless and poor are either lazy or on drugs. No facts, just a hunch.

Right, I know you discovered that actually confronting the real world was difficult. Much easier to just go with your hunches.

To be honest, I just believe that everyone has a choice. I think if anyone wants to be successful, they can. That's the beauty of America.

And this is your 'grown up' conclusion?

You are unreasonable, they had cracks in their brick walls. My sister doesn't make shit up. She is like you on your defense of the Gov.
But she agrees that insurance companies should pay when a claim is made!
And if they don't, I fucking expect the politician, who is elected by constituents to do their fucking job, and be involved!!!

Jesus you're obviously not even close to a shore.

You must have read that post about it being hot in Phoenix! Your so brilliant!
Your a waste of time, peckerwood!

I, for one, have written Ban All Fireworks on the front of my house, with my own blood.

The mosquitos in my area suffered greatly from the sulfer that hung in the air like a gas chamber.

Also, I plan to boycott and picket the Safeway because they allowed one of those vile fireworks stands in their parking lot.

I made this decision after I discovered several sugar ants poisoned and dead, suffering in the ash of one of the pellet snakes that I am certain was purchased at that very stand.

Please, all of you, sign my petition at The insect equality network.

I recommend that you call the Congress immediately. We need to all get behind this, quickly, before the image of the suffering mosquitos fades.

We have the power to stop this atrocity.

To be honest, I agree with you that insurance companies need to stop jacking with normal people. My line is just that the government shouldn't be saviors. That's not their job and frankly, they always screw things up.

And no actually i didn't know you lived in Phoenix. I'm just being serious, 70 miles from a hurricane is not being hit, maybe on the east side 70 miles away but not on the north. I'm glad to see i was right about you not being near the shore though. lol.

Why Anjha, you snarky little devil!

I don't often see that side of you but it was a refreshing respite!

Thanks sweetie, you came to my rescue!

In all seriousness, Unreasonable, you and your ilk have forgotten what made America great.

When the men who signed the Declaration of Independence put their name on that paper, they were all then subject to being hanged for treason. They put everything on the line for a vision.

It was a vision of a state that worked together. It was a Republic where the people ruled. We are the government, the people who hold office are our employees.

The vision that sprang forth was one in which there would be a Country that fought for the good of all people and made it possible for people to strive for and work towards a better life. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

An ever changing Union which sought always to form a more perfect Union for our posterity. Our future, our children's future, our grandchildren's future.

The purpose of the government was to continue to institute policies and protections for the people. The great American Experiement. Nothing that had ever been seen before, or since.

The vision was one of working together. For everyone; not just for the elite.

Now, what is occurring is an attitude and policies and laws instituted that say "everyone is on their own." I got mine, and fuck you if you don't have yours. This is not a vision of working towards the greatest good. This is a vision of benefiting a few at the expense of the many and is the antithesis to an experiment that has almost failed.

This is not what the Progressives and the Liberals who signed their names on that document risked everything for. This Country has the potential to be the greatness that you have illusioned yourself into thinking that we are.

The Progressives and Liberals of today still believe this.

E Pluribus Unum.

From many one, dumb ass. Not everyone for themself.

Oh Anjha, I am so...not worthy!!!

You actually brought a tear to my eye!

Anjha: I think you misinterpreted something in history class. Yes: life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That is what I live for and that is what makes America great! But I'm assuming where you're going is that the government should take care of us. Protect us??? Yes please! Take care of us??? uhhhhh no. The beautiful thing about America is that EVERYONE can partake in the system and achieve. It's up to you to take advantage. We cannot MAKE you be succesful in life. You can only give him the tools to do so.

Very nice, Anjha. Truly inspirational. Thanks for the reminder.

Protect us??? Yes please!

Yes, spend your tax dollars on more bombs and guns!

Take care of us??? uhhhhh no.

Why should they, it might take away from making a dollar for large corporations and spending that money on bombs and guns!

unreasonable, I hope you never get hurt or have a tragedy befall you. Say like someone has cancer in your family and they cancel the insurance on you. The hospital bills become to much to pay.
Twisted ignorant fuck! These are the kinds of simple things that happen to people everyday and the rich and your kind could care less.
Our system is perfect in your mind.
We could be doing so much more with what we have but our elected officials waste this on talking about who is fucking who or making you see to it that our kids have God in their lives.

Yes I believe that 99% of homeless and poor are either lazy or on drugs. No facts, just a hunch.

1/2 of the homeless population are veterans. Iraq veterans are showing up at an alarming rate. Something about their country fucking them up devastates them so completely that they can't function. About 1/3 of the homeless are under 18. About 40% overall are are women.

Lazy drug abusing bastards. If only we could kill them or put them in prison! Lazy bums, all of them.

But we need to spend $500 billion in Iraq, bringing them democracy. That's where the well earned tax dollar goes (They spend 6 of every 10 I make, what with the deficit. Why, if I were wealthy, they would be spending about 2.25 of every 10 I make. It all seems so fair.).

Yes, these are lazy fucking drug abusing bums...especially the kids. Fucking bums! You eight year-olds get yourself a fucking job, you scummy fucks. There is no reason you shouldn't be in a steel mill...if we hadn't shipped them all to China. Does us a favor. Run one of them over in a crosswalk. They smell bad anyway.

Does

Should be "do". I am a bit angry. I'll work it out on the SUK-Vs at the golf course tomorrow. I'm getting some great yardage out my hybrid irons. I'll open up so I can hook the hell out of a couple.

Phid: do you have backing for those numbers you throw out or should I just accept them because you are the "defender of the poor"? Also, my statement was that they were lazy or on drugs. You didn't prove me wrong there, just told me who they were.

seven: My opinion is that to the fathers of our country "protecting us" meant from invaders not taking care of us, HUGE DIFFERENCE.

When you guys use the word "corporations" its like you're talking of this huge monster that eats little children. You do realize that PEOPLE work for these corporations and they're the ones making money right? Oh yeah, one more thing, some of those people may be considered poor now but when the company grows they may even get a chance to get a promotion and move out of the poor class. Oh but you probably don't want that because they're more likely to vote Republican then aren't they????

And finally, all you guys do is bash America blah blah blah. I've got a great idea, move to Canada! They're liberal dude! Seems so simple, especially when you're in the minority here.

Trolls get a bonus for having the last entry in a thread.

The article Phid refers to on homeless Vets was on the CNN website. Your beneath me to waste the time to look for it.
I'm sorry, I love capitalism. I just wish all of it would stay in the states. And maybe the CEO's could take a pay cut once in a while and earn only 50 million! Of course the CEO's and investors should be able to make all the money while the employee loses Union benefits, healthcare entitlements and the ability to increase their wages.
Didn't you know that they just elected a conservative Prime Minister in Canada!
Your arrogant and stupid! Gee, sounds like "the King of the Crackers"!

And finally, all you guys do is bash America blah blah blah.

While you bend her over, grab a tit, and fuck the hell out of her. We tread a bit more softly.

Phid: do you have backing for those numbers you throw out or should I just accept them because you are the "defender of the poor"?

You should accept them because I'm a big Broke Back Mountain leftcoast Hollywood liberal faggot. I've got 30 IQ points on any republi-con. I'll not pander to your insensitivity, especially since you are not concerned enough to do a 3 minute google. Wallow in your vile ignorance! That's the best payback I can get.

Phid and Seven, lets stop beating around the bush and just admit our true feelings. I know you got love! lol. But seriously, I just get tired of all the bashing of America. But i'm sure you'd say u just get tired of us doing everything wrong. Either way, it gets tiresome when this is STILL the greatest country in the world AND you're still living here. I dunno though....i'll admit i shouldn't take it so personally if you'll admit you sometimes go out of your way to speak negative of America. Deal?

Either way, it gets tiresome when this is STILL the greatest country in the world AND you're still living here.

Not a big fan of self-analysis are you?

How many other countries have you been a citizen of? What forms your basis of reference to declare the United States the greatest country. Define 'greatest'. Stupid generalizations. Meaningless.

So by your logic the United States should ideally be populated by citizens who never question a thing their government does and the result of that would be to lift the nation to higher and higher heights of 'greatness'?

You're so seemingly unable to think outside of stereotypes and broad generalizations that you can't appreciate the difference between criticism of THE GOVERNMENT of the United States and the actions it takes and criticism of THE United States. Hopeless.

I earned every right to speak up for a better America!
Can you honestly say the same, or does your greed, graft and corruption get in the way?

Don't give me that crap. Bashing the government is bashing America buddy. It is the government of the people remember?

Well I'm of the opinion that if you don't believe that America is the greatest country in the world then you shouldn't be here. OF COURSE we don't do everything right and we need people that can give constructive criticism but what is done here by some people clearly crosses the line from criticism to bashing. Go ask all of the millions upon millions of people that immigrate here if this is the greatest country in the world. They would and DO say it is. That might have something to do with the fact that the US accepts more immigrants than all the other countries in the world COMBINED.

Don't give me that crap. Bashing the government is bashing America buddy. It is the government of the people remember?

I believe the expression is 'Government of the people, for the people, by the people.'

Curious how you highlighted the first and neglected the latter. But it's irrelevant anyway since your comment is ludicrous. The First Amendment to the Constitution specifically delegates to the people the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances. The framers specifically addressed in the afirmative the right to dissent.

Well I'm of the opinion that if you don't believe that America is the greatest country in the world then you shouldn't be here.

So if you don't work for the greatest company in the world you should abandon it and go work for the greatest company? Here's a novel idea. How about working to improve it. Seriously, I'd like to get some criteria for what makes the United States the 'greatest' country.

Go ask all of the millions upon millions of people that immigrate here if this is the greatest country in the world. They would and DO say it is.

I'm not conversing with them. I am with you.

That might have something to do with the fact that the US accepts more immigrants than all the other countries in the world COMBINED.

Not if your buddies the conservatives have anything to do with it. So I suppose all the republicans in Congress are trying to knock the US off its 'greatest country in the world' pedestal? Why do they hate America so much?

And I sure hope none of those immigrants are the poor lazy drug addicted types!

You must have trouble understanding what is plainly obvious. Criticisms of the government is great! I really do mean that. But bashing it for your own benefit (ie: to gain power) is just in poor taste and not needed. And you're right! You can and will do that as you please! But in the same breath I have the right to say "get the fuck outta here!" and call you out for what you are.

I'm not conversing with them. I am with you.

Is that how you totally negate the point I made??? I say: THE WORLD BELIEVES AMERICA IS THE GREATEST. And you're answer is I'm not talking to the world I'm talking to you??? And btw, if you think your political party will ever win with those ideals you're poorly mistaken. That day will NEVER come until you can tolerate a person who has faith and pride in his country. You have to NOT get the heebie jeebies when around a proud American (by far the majority). When that happens your party will get a chance to lead us.

Not if your buddies the conservatives have anything to do with it. So I suppose all the republicans in Congress are trying to knock the US off its 'greatest country in the world' pedestal? Why do they hate America so much?

I don't remember this being an immigration debate. This is an ILLEGAL immigration debate. But I do differ with my "conservative buddies" in that I believe the people here should be given the chance to stay. I feel it's equally the fault of the US and Mexico governments.

And I sure hope none of those immigrants are the poor lazy drug addicted types!

You're damn right. If you're lazy or addicted to drugs don't even bother to apply. This country does not reward laziness, btw I hear France does though.

Is that how you totally negate the point I made??? I say: THE WORLD BELIEVES AMERICA IS THE GREATEST. And you're answer is I'm not talking to the world I'm talking to you??? And btw, if you think your political party will ever win with those ideals you're poorly mistaken. That day will NEVER come until you can tolerate a person who has faith and pride in his country.

Until I can tolerate a person who has faith and pride in his country? Where did I ever indicate that I don't have faith and pride IN MY COUNTRY? Please show me. Again, you can not distinguish between loving ones' country and loving the current government. It's almost laughable. And you lecturing about tolerating people! You're the one whose response is 'if you don't think the country is the greatest you shouldn't be here'! You can't even keep your point consistant from one comment to the next.

You have to NOT get the heebie jeebies when around a proud American (by far the majority).

See, with that one sentence you called all liberals not proud Americans. Baseless. Absolutely baseless.

I don't remember this being an immigration debate. This is an ILLEGAL immigration debate.

You didn't specify. You said the people who immigrate. I'll bet if you ask those who immigrate illegally the vast majority will tell you the US is the greatest country in the world too.

You're damn right. If you're lazy or addicted to drugs don't even bother to apply. This country does not reward laziness, btw I hear France does though.

So you can bash France but you can't offer any examples of what makes the US 'greater' than France.

Sure there may be a chance that you're not "the average liberal" so i'll be kind. But most liberals I meet (the ones i meet, not all of them) don't feel comfortable celebrating the 4th of july, they don't feel comfortable saying the pledge, hate singing the anthem, and have no respect for the flag. In the same moment they dislike people that take pride in those same things. I may be wrong but that is how you and other liberals come across. My honest opinion is that we need you guys. We really do. But you guys have got to come to terms that you need us too.

I think you guys are America's conscious. I think where we lack compassion you guys balance us out (on many many issues). And among other things if you didn't have us you'd be speaking german right now. lol. I don't know, but we're not going to get anywhere by being hateful. ya know?

And among other things if you didn't have us you'd be speaking german right now. lol.

I had 4 uncles who served during World War II. One of them fought the Japanese in the Pacific. Fortunately only one of them died. My family is populated with proud liberals. For you to dismiss the contributions to this country's security made over the years by liberal with a flippant remark like that tells me all I need to know about you.

I don't know, but we're not going to get anywhere by being hateful. ya know?

Liberals are the hateful ones? Open your eyes man.

Snark please be honest. You're trying to tell me that your grandfathers were liberal? I don't think that today's liberal was even in existence back then.

And yes liberals are very hateful towards conservatives (not to say that its not the other way around too). But I just tried telling you that I don't have hate towards liberals. But I sure as hell have read comments aimed towards me that are VERY hateful, even on a personal level. My comment was that we both have to have patience with each other to move on. This blog has made me think that we're farther from that than I thought.

Snark please be honest. You're trying to tell me that your grandfathers were liberal? I don't think that today's liberal was even in existence back then.

You're gonna tell me you know more about my family than I do now? Another hunch?

Sorry. I'm done with you.

Quit being so damn sensitive when someone asks you a question. I'm not claiming I know more about your familiy than you, I'm saying that today's liberal wasn't even in existence in the 40's. Whatever though...be done with me. But hopefully someday you'll realize that you have to accept that conservatives are a mainstay in this country.

snark, stop beating up on the defenseless troll. Can't you see he's a moron? Besides, he's gonna tell you what you're really thinking anyhow, no need to mess him up with stuff like reality.

Besides, when 'pukes say something bad about the country, it's "constructive criticism," but when a progressive does it, it's bashing. You're not going to get a natural born follower like this dweeb to go against the talking points he's been paid to repeat. He may have a woody for Bush, but he's still only gonna say what he's been told to say. Learning is forbidden, you know.

un-reasonable you not only snivel you're a bedwetter....

Both of yall are idiots. Trust me, i enjoy face to face discussions much more due to the other person being more respectful. Of course, that may have something to do with you guys being non-violent. lol. Xray, dude that zit on your forehead is pulsating, you should really take care of that.

un-reasonable you make a bigger asshole out of yourself with every post..scumbucket...

But hopefully someday you'll realize that you have to accept that conservatives are a mainstay in this country.

unreasonable, Yes, as long as you control the media, military and elections we have to say you are a mainstay in this country. And the minute there is a new party in place you will be saying how much you agreed with Democrats or Progressives so you can be on the side that is in the majority.
Will you still say that this is the greatest country in the world?
We can go on endlessly but until you face the fact that bu$hco has repeatedly violated the constitution and stolen from the people then we will always disagree.
You think that by trying to get a reaction you have won this debate.
Admit it, your a fascist and as long as the government continues this way you profit both personally and professionally.

seven: listen man i realize you HAVE to say that we control everything and that's the reason we're in power. it helps you sleep at night, i know. but please wake up to the fact it's pretty even on the media. we have our channels (#1 fox) and you guys have yours (cnn, what is it now the #5 news channel?)

but i will always be a right leaning person. though i lean to the left (a little) on some issues (immigration, abortion, and the environment). i'm sure you think i'm crazy but i think history will look back on conservatives in a better light than you think. only time will tell though.

xray: dude you want me to pop that thing for you or what man?

At least I can keep unReasonable from scoring a point, right Al?

Dear unReasonable: history will look upon you as it did Neanderthal man. Damn mean, and incredibly stupid, almost to the point that they were not considered part of the homo genus at all for almost 100 years. P.S. homo is the scientific genus for man, before you get your pants wet.

Jeez, I keep forgetting, you Repugs don't believe in evolution, so I guess that the only biblical explanation is that you are the results of rhinos and ostriches on an ark together for too many days, with no deck shuffleboard.

unReasonable: why is it that none of the top Republicans, repeat, NONE, have ever served in active combat? Did they just "luck out" or something? There was draft on, or don't you know what that means?

Tempus,
OOOOH you got me. Good one with the evolution jab, too bad you don't know shit about me, but good try though. When will you dumbasses learn that you can't generalize the majority of the country? You minority people should be more respectful of us majority people. And about Republicans and the military, what the hell does that have to do with anything??? But have you ever thought that maybe real conservatives don't run for office? They're conservative, they don't necessarily want the spotlight on them.

Your still a knuckle dragging fascist!

lol. i know and you guys are still tree hugging socialists.

They're conservative, they don't necessarily want the spotlight on them.

That's simply because they don't want to get caught in all the fraud, embezzlement, money-launering, payoffs, and general graft that they are all up to. I suppose you have a poster of Lay on your wall, with little jerk-off stains all over it?

Good one with the evolution jab, too bad you don't know shit about me, but good try though.

You're so right. Who am I to say what your evolutionary parents were. I'm now thinking an aardvark and a centipede, but it's only a guess, as I don't 'know you'. Hey, you're Jimmy Carter, are you!?

And about Republicans and the military, what the hell does that have to do with anything???

Because you Repigs and your brain-dead leaders are the ones that start the fucking wars, that's why!!!

Tempus i love the fact that you can't fit all that you have to say in one post. It says alot of your idiocy. I'm sure you're one of those people that come up with the greatest comeback 5 minutes after the conversation ended. lol.

I don't give a shit about Lay's death but he was not that bad of a person. He deserved the trouble he got into but he wasn't the real pig in all this. But of course I don't know shit, I only live in Houston and know countless people that don't blame him for their losses. Everyone of them said he was actually a pretty good guy but let shit go on that he shouldn't have. I don't celebrate that type of person's death, sorry.

Hey man, I'm all for mandatory military time. I think that's what tree hugging socialists like you missed....a little discipline.

Hey man, I'm all for mandatory military time. I think that's what tree hugging socialists like you missed....a little discipline.

So that is why both tempus and I are Veterans!!
tempus was an officer, I was enlisted!
Covers both ends of the spectrum!
What did you miss, dickhead?

Seven: obviously, he missed combat service, just as his gopper pals did.

Does this ring a bell in your empty brain cavity, unReasonable?

'You stupid fuckin' maggot! Take your rifle, place it in your mouth, and fire exactly one round. Do you UNDERSTAND?' I am your Marine Sergeant, and God as well. You will do as I say!

I don't give a shit about Lay's death but he was not that bad of a person. He deserved the trouble he got into but he wasn't the real pig in all this.

Then who the fuck was? Let me guess. Bill Clinton, right? Of course, who else. Does Richard Cheney mean anything to you? If he does, do the thoughts make you throw up violently. They should. Any comments, my new friend?

I could tell Lay was looking out for his consumers and employees!

The fucking guy had a Ph.D in economics, it was his company, he was CEO...but he's not to blame!

I love this guy! Makes me realize that the GOP is more stupid than I thought!!

Seven, didn't your mother tell you not pick on the disadvantaged? Shame. I owe you a beer!

LOL. Are you dumbasses still arguing with me??? Good lord guys, it was Friday, you should really think about getting a life! Also, try to educate yourself on the Enron deal. It would really do you good when you discuss it.