Extreme fundamentalism is common even in 'liberal' St. Paul, Minnesota.
Posted by herbal tee at July 29, 2006 08:26 PMDon't look now, but if it's a red state it's jesusland. jesusland Americans anti-Semites? Everyone except the neo-cons.
Posted by phidipides at July 29, 2006 09:05 PMThe allliance between militant fundamentalist Christians and pro-Israel Jewish activists is hard to understand. Yet both sides seem to welcome it. The Christian fundies speak out of two sides of their mouth. Out of one side talking about an anti-Islam alliance with their Jewish brothers and out of the other asserting the damnation of all those who don't believe in Jesus.
In truth the Abrahamic faiths do have much in common in their roots and monotheistic traditions. In many forums in this country there is a strong interfaith dialogue. Too bad it can't happen in the Middle East too.
Thank you for this post, pessimist.
I find myself in a precarious (well, precarious for blogs, anyway) position when I comment on such matters. I was raised Jewish, even bat mitzvahed. I, like my brother and father, however, am an atheist and a skeptic. I have family in Israel, and I support the country's right to exist and defend itself. I am also horrified at the onslaught against civilians in Lebanon, and I consider my country's response to it (enabling, refusing to act as a peace broker in any serious manner so as to further their PNAC war dreams) an unmitigated disgrace that defies description.
When I comment on the matter on blogs, I manage to incur the wrath of everyone (seemingly). I've been called an anti-semitic or anti-Israeli Jew when I question Israeli policy by people who seem to believe that Israel never has, nor ever can, do any wrong. I've also been called a rabid pro-Israeli by folks who appear to believe the opposite. The subject is so fraught with misunderstandings and misinformation (not to mention religious zeal) that it's nearly impossible to have a reasonable dialogue.
And the religious fervor in this country - the creeping menace of untempered fundamentalism - only complicates the matter.
Earlier in my life, I learned full well the anti-semitic (or anti-Jewish to be more accurate) attitudes that permeate this country when I was uprooted at age 12 in the 1980s from a predominantly Jewish community in Skokie, Illinois to an upper-class suburb just outside Orange County, California. Thankfully, I endured less than some of the families in your post, but I did endure the name-calling, constant reminders that my family was doomed to eternal hellfire for failing to believe the right stories, and forced into public school bachelloreate procedings at Christian churches.
And I realize I'm being redundant on this blog, it seems worth repeating that we can't take the first amendment for granted. The Supreme Court now has four judges who likely would vote to annihilate the Incorporation Doctrine, thereby allowing each state to establish its own religion if it so chooses.
Posted by Liveliest Crib at July 29, 2006 09:53 PMThe allliance between militant fundamentalist Christians and pro-Israel Jewish activists is hard to understand
This is an oversimplification, but to the fundie Christians, the Jews are God's chosen people. More importantly, their participation is required in the series of events that lead to the second coming of Christ. Ultimately, the Anti-Christ is supposed to lead the armies of the Earth against the Jews in the Battle of Armageddon. In short, no Jews ... no Armageddon ... and no second coming. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Other that that, the fundies could care less about the Jewish people or the Jewish state. If they don't accept Christ as their Savior, they're going to burn in Hell - period.
I'm not certain about the Jewish activists. But I'd be willing to bet they're playing the fundies for the fools that they are.
Posted by Jim Faith at July 29, 2006 10:36 PMJdsm hs yt t rcgnz thr Mssh, tht bng fr th fllnss f th Gntls t cm t Chrst, Chrstns lrdy knw Hm. slm s bt crl prvrsn. Whl Chrstns rnstly dsr tht n sl fll nt th pt, th lft strnsly bjcts t nnblvrs hrng bt hw thy cn b dlvrd frm Hll, nd rlshs th vndctv nd wtlss mgntn f Gd's chldrn smhw ndng p thr. dmttdly w r ll hypcrts n n frm r nthr, whch s jst n mr rsn w dsprtly nd th crcfd nd rsrrctd Svr Jss Chrst.
[Editor: ignore=off]Jim, that's my understanding as well.
Our delightful American Christian fundamentalists "support" Israel solely because of the Jews supposed presence and participation in the Armageddon/"second-coming" scriptural myths. They are neccessary dramatis personae in the little Armageddon play.
In the play, once Armageddon is brought on, the Jews are consigned to their eternal damnation.
Israelis and pro-Israel activists in Murica have allied with fundamentalists because they are the dominant political movement in America, and can be counted upon to blindly (religiously?) support/supply Israel with enormous foreign aid "packages" and loudly clamor that whatever Israel does is justified as "fighting terra!".
Certainly the existence/advancement of some Christian doctrine plays no role in bringing any Jewish myths into fruition.
Thus, the Christian fundamentalists get to feel that they are doing what's essential to advance their desperately hoped-for scriptural rapture, and the Israelis get hard cash and military hardware to maintain their overwhelming military superiority.
Who gets the better of the bargain?
Posted by euzoius at July 30, 2006 06:23 AM
"I've been called an anti-semitic or anti-Israeli Jew when I question Israeli policy by people who seem to believe that Israel never has, nor ever can, do any wrong."
Liveliest Crib, and therein lies the problem. People who are irrational/extremists, are always people who only believe in black or white. Those of us in the realm of reality know damn well that neither side is always 100% in the right, and the sooner we acknowledge that fact, the quicker we can solve many issues that face the world.
Posted by Judith at July 30, 2006 07:51 AM
Christians already know Him.
They know the name. Like you, they are far from living their lives in a fashion jesus would approve of.
Islam is but a cruel perversion.
Damn. Name calling toward a religion that reveres your jesus as a prophet.
While Christians earnestly desire that no soul fall into the pit,
The way you jackoffs condemn people to hell you could have fooled me.
the left strenuously objects to nonbelievers hearing about how they can be delivered from Hell,
Hearing is different than being forced to listen to your incessant drivel and retarded machinations of faith in schools and the public airwaves. Hearing is not being forced to convert. Want to tell me about the love of jesus while you masturbate at the death of kids in Lebanon? Knock on my door. Otherwise, leave me the fuck alone.
the left strenuously objects to nonbelievers hearing about how they can be delivered from Hell,
Your statement should read, "the left strenuously objects to nonbelievers being forced to believe as I do,"
and relishes the vindictive and witless imagination of God's children somehow ending up there.
You are not god's child. God's children are very different from you. The difference is like, well, you burn in hell and god's children don't. That's the difference.
Admittedly we are all hypocrites in one form or another,
I'm not. I do the things I say I'm going to do and try to lead a good and honorable live. I'm the best person I can be, I strive towards that end, and I honestly try and love all mankind. All people have value in this world. I refuse to hate people just because they exist or simply because they look different or live different lives...or don't share my religion. I can assure you, and I see all people as striving towards higher states of social interest if allowed, dominionists and fundies are worthless people because they expect me to believe as they do and hate who they hate. To a person, they are worthless. I still hope they will see the errors of their ways and begin to live more like their christ.
You a hypocrite? I have no doubt.
which is just one more reason we desperately need the crucified and resurrected Savior Jesus Christ.
No thanks. I can do without your ghost stories. I prefer other stories. You know, like Matthew 8:5-13, where jesus heals a Roman ceturions gay lover and claims they had greater faith than any in Israel. But I bet you've never really cracked the book for yourself, and so your own personal faith always appears to be a mere bastardization of some possible faith, but not a real faith. You are eternal death and not to be followed.
Posted by at July 30, 2006 08:22 AMjesus fucking christ! That is me above.
Posted by phidipides at July 30, 2006 08:23 AMMakes you wonder if we will go the way of Rome and spiral down into a abyss of faith and the dark ages being led their by Christian Fundamentalist or go the way of the UK where Christian Fundamentalism was rejected after the death of Cromwell -- the Lord Protector. Let us hope it is the latter.
Posted by Ishmael at July 30, 2006 09:48 AMliveliest, i'm in much in the same boat as far as israel and lebanon. you make good points; keep speaking up.
Posted by benjoya at July 30, 2006 10:47 AM"Admittedly we are all hypocrites in one form or another,"
This is true. Human beings are incapable of not being hypocrites at some time or another.
However, the fundie right uses this "everyone does it" as a bullshit excuse for their hubristic and intentional hypocrisy every fucking day.
In a true Christian world we would not hear from the prig Dobson's and his ilk. Why?
Because if they were real Christian they would be spending their time minding the plank in their own eye and not others.
Orgainized religion is the greatest bane to the human race. There will be no peace, no equality, hatred will not die as long as we have organized religions competeing for social dominance in this world.
Wll th slf rghts Chrst htrs hv hd thr sy tdy. Smngly th lft hs n sn, n sprtl blndnss, nd cn spps thmslvs s gds t cndmn ppl f fth fr nt gsstppng n nsn wth th rlgn f ntchrst. Gtt lv th gnrms chrg tht Chrstns r prmtng rmgddn t frc Gd's hnd. W r cnfdnt tht t wll hppn, bt w hv n dsr fr nyn t sffr t, nt t mntn th trrbl ftrmth f Hll fr th nrpntnt wh prtcpt n wht wll b ths wrld's fnl sltn fr yr thrn nmd srl. Rthr w r grtfl tht n Gd's mrcy th crtn hs nt cm dwn pn ths sn rddld wrld n rdr tht mr sls my yt b svd frm prdtn. Th qlly dtc chrg tht Chrstns cndmn thrs t Hll s n xymrn, bng tht ths lrdy cndmnd by rjctng th slvtn f Jss Chrst cnnt pssbly b mr cndmnd thn thy r lrdy. Th rl bjctn hr s t Jss Chrst hmslf, tht hs lght wll shn n th kngdm f drknss whr th dnzns scrry fr cvr bcs hs lght rvls thr tr ntr.
[Editor: ignore=off]Benito, you make me want to throw-up.
Posted by Judith at July 30, 2006 12:40 PMfrito bendito you write like a true psychotic...delusional asswipe.....
Posted by headxray at July 30, 2006 01:17 PM"Well the self righteous Christ haters have had their say today."
As opposed to the practitioners of hubris who claim superiority and semi-divinity via a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, being indwellt with the Holy Spirit and one day sitting at the right hand of God?
And spare me the christ haters bit.....let me see how does that go....oh, (Bullshit excuse no. 2) I hate the sin not sinner dude.
Posted by j swift at July 30, 2006 01:56 PMStrtlng dmssn, Jdth, tht Jss mks y wnt t pk. 'm nt srprsd t b htd by th wrld n thrll t th prnc f drknss. Bt whn n clms t lv Gd, yt hts th brthrn, tht prsn s lr, nd ds nt lv Gd. f yr rlgn rls n th Chrst htng wrld bng yr lvrs, y mght wnt t rnm t t thr thn Chrstn.
[Editor: ignore=off]
"Startling admission, Judith, that Jesus makes you want to puke."
As usual, you didn't understand what I was saying. You, not Jesus, makes me want to puke.
"Well the self righteous Christ haters have had their say today."
Yes Swift, they have, and they do everyday on this blog. Thy name is troll.
Posted by Judith at July 30, 2006 02:37 PM"But when one claims to love God, yet hates the brethren, that person is a liar, and does not love God."
You know Benito, you should take your own words and internalize them emotionally, not intellectually. You come to this Blog, and time and time again you have expressed your hatred for all liberals, gays and anyone else who doesn't agree with you. You can delude yourself in your self-righteousness all you want, but I have failed to see your love, compassion, understanding, forgiveness, patience or any Christ like attributes expressed on this Blog by you.
"But when one claims to love God, yet hates the brethren, that person is a liar, and does not love God."
God will judge me, not you Benito.
Benito, you make me want to throw-up.
Posted by Judith at July 30, 2006 12:40 PM
~
Startling admission, Judith, that Jesus makes you want to puke.
Posted by Bendito at July 30, 2006 01:59 PM
~
Well, there you have it folks. Bendito doesn't just believe in Jesus. Bendito thinks he is Jesus.
Posted by Liveliest Crib at July 30, 2006 03:18 PMJdth, y mst rtcht yr bstrctn lvl f ndrstndng pwrds svrl ntchs whn tryng t ndrstnd Bblcl cncpts. Bn s mst xcllnt Bblcl schlr. Bt thr s ctch:
Th Bbl s tw-dgd swrd. t hs bth mrcy nd jstc: f y cll n f Jhvh’s chsn ‘fl,’ wll, lt’s pt t ths wy, y’ll b mst nhppy n th vry nr ftr.
Lt m lv y ths vrs, rfrrng t Mss wh s nfrmng th ncnt srlts why t s tht thy cntn n rblln vn ftr 40 yrs f rnnng n th wldrnss, ftr scpng gypt, bng fd nd wtrd vrydy, clthng nd shs nvr wrng t, sng Gd’s pllr f fr vry nght, nd Gd’s pllr f cld vry dy:
Dtrnmy 29:4. Yt th LRD hth nt gvn y n hrt t prcv, nd ys t s, nd rs t hr, nt ths dy.
Fr y s, Jhvh ds ll th wrk f ndrstndng; thr s n rm fr hmn prd, whtsvr.
Tk cr
[Editor: ignore=off]"Judith, you must ratchet your abstraction level of understanding upwards several notches when trying to understand Biblical concepts."
Scout, there is no need for me to "ratchet my abstraction level of understanding upwards" to "understand Biblical concepts." I would pit my knowledge about the Bible and abstract concepts with anyone, but not on this Blog. I have tried to accomplish only one thing here, and that has been to defend Christians, whom many times, have been unfairly lumped in with the religious radicals. The Left Coaster is not the place to discuss personal beliefs, personal walks with God nor my Biblical concepts. I am sure there are other blogs for such discussions.
Posted by Judith at July 30, 2006 04:57 PMI have tried to . . . defend Christians, who[] many times, have been unfairly lumped in with the religious radicals. The Left Coaster is not the place to discuss personal beliefs, personal walks with God nor my Biblical concepts. I am sure there are other blogs for such discussions.
Posted by Judith at July 30, 2006 04:57 PM
Just lettin' ya know, Judith: Lots of us hear ya and agree wholeheartedly!
The vast majority of people in this country is Christian, of one sect or another. And the vast majority of Christians in this country are wonderful people. And I don't even have to agree with their politics to consider them good people.
It is such a shame that radical, fundamentalist theocrats hijack the term "Christian" for their own purposes. They know precisely what they're doing when they purport to advance a "Christian" agenda. They want the word to become one that makes non-Christians cringe, so they can demonstrate to other Christians that "seculars" and "liberals" are all bigots. They've done such an incredible job with it that even Christians sometimes cringe when someone says, "I'm a Christian," for they fear that a theocratic diatribe is about to follow.
It's so sad. I'm an atheist. I love this country because of the ideals to which it aspires, among which is the ideal that all people, no matter what their religious beliefs, can live here freely. Lest that ideal die a tortured and tragic death, we do need to listen to more Christians like you.
Posted by Liveliest Crib at July 30, 2006 05:17 PMyou must ratchet your abstraction level of understanding upwards several notches when trying to understand Biblical concepts.
Yeah. It's pretty complex, being written by people who didn't understand what a lunar eclipse was and all. And you dominionists are into the old testament more than the Jews. Why, it's so complex, you need Jerry Falwel to tell you what it means. I mean, it's super-duper complicated. You know, like Matthew 7 1: Judge not, that ye be not judged. Damn, that is complex, and super abstract! I wonder what it means? I bet it has something to do with the death of all Towel Heads...ya think?
Fixed your typo, phid - p
Posted by phidipides at July 30, 2006 05:29 PMJdth, t’s nt bt wht y, r Bn, r wht thnk, bt bt wht Gd thnks. Th Bbl s th stndrd, ndd, th lw fr hmn bhvr. Pls cnsdr tht th grt fllng wy frm Bblcl trth s mkng jdgmnt dy dstnct n trms f shwng mnknd tht thy dd nt vn try t fllw th rl f lw s wrttn n th Bbl. Jhvh wll sk, Why nt? Y hv th lw wrttn nd wrttn n y hrt. Hw s t tht y fl t cmply wth my rl?
Phd, Mtt 7:1, whn spkng bt jdgmnt, s wrnng t fls Chrstns bt thr stndng bfr Jhvh. Tr Chrstns r th slt f th wrld, w r th jdgs f th wrld n trms f sprtlty. ndd, ll f mdrn cltr, ts mrs, lws nd cltrs, wr, nc pn tm, smwht clsr rflctn t sprtl trth. Wht m syng hr s tht r vrydy lf, n th pst, ws clsr t th sprtl trth f th Bbl.
Snc r mdrn cltr ws gdd by r crp lrds, nd thr mny hndlrs, wy frm th trth f th Bbl, th bv hs bcm lmst bt mpssbl fr vn Chrstn hypcrts t by nt! nd ths nclds th lk f Flwll nd th DC dmns f flshnss. vl s s vl ds; ths, hypcrts hv nw ct ff vn ths tht thy sspct f knwng th trth, f nly bcs thr prsnl prd nssts tht thy knw t ll, nd knw mr thn Gd Hmslf. Ths ws th thrst f Bn’s crtcsm f Jdth whn h skd Jdth t rnm hr rlgs ffltn t smthng thr thn ’Chrstn.’
Bn, mst ctn tht th mdrn rgnzd Chrstn chrchs hv bn bndnd by Chrst, jst s H bndnd th Jwsh Synggs pn th dth f Chrst. thnk y knw ths, bt thrs my nt.
Fnlly, t s crtcl t ndrstnd tht w r rcng t th ntrsctn f tw dmnsns: Chrst nd nsvd mnknd. Tm s shrt, n trms f slvtn. Ths s nthr pnt tht Bn spk bt.
ls, th sngl mst dvsttng blw t Chrstnty, vn hypcrtcl Chrstnty, whch s bttr thn thstc sclr hmnsm, nd whtvr ls mn cn drm p, ws th prcss f dvsn. Tht s, th sprtn f chrch nd stt tht llwd th dstrctn f th Chrstn nstttn, tht, n trn, llwd th nfltrtn f 2300 pgn rlgns. My pnt hr, Jdth, s tht th trth f Chrstnty cn nt b rstrnd t spcfc thght-bx, d, r blg. Th trth s vrywhr, vn n th vry wrds w s t cmmnct. Ths, tr Chrstnty wll xst whrvr mn xsts. nd prt f Pss ndrstnds ths cncpt, s h prdclly tchs pn th trth f rlgn.
Phd, ’v bn dng sm thnkng bt shml. Whn Jhvh tld brhm tht h s t b th fthr f srl, whch s ll th tr blvrs, (ll th chsn r clld ‘Jws,‘ nt blgcl, bt sprtl Jws, Pss), H ls tld shml’s mthr, Hnn, blv, tht shml wll b th fthr f grt ntn. T Jhvh, ‘grt’ cn nly mn ‘blvr!’
sspct tht whn ll f shml gts ts ss kckd, n r dmnsn, whch s hppnng nw, Chrst s gng t d sm y pnng wth qt fw rb brthrs.
Well, preaching to people who have not asked for your opinion on religion, is a sure fire way to turn them off. My belief is that God does not need my help. If God wants me to "witness" to someone, he will send them to me, and has.
"They've done such an incredible job with it that even Christians sometimes cringe when someone says, "I'm a Christian," for they fear that a theocratic diatribe is about to follow."
Anjha, I couldn't agree more with your words. I rarely use the word Christian anymore, because the word and meaning has become so distorted by the religious fanatics. It is human nature to make generalizations about groups of people, which is wrong, of course. However, it is the responsibility of those who call themselves Christians, to speak truth to distortions, as Pastor Boyd did recently.
I am not the best example of a Christian. I cuss all the time, I rarely attend church, I get angry and lash out, I have no patience, and I hate those who are destroying our Country. However, I am kind, loving, compassionate, believe strongly in right and wrong, justice, morality, and that no one in this world is better or more valuable than any other.
Do I hate? Sure. I know I am not suppose to, but when I see others hurt people intentionally, because they believe that they are not worthy or because they don't believe as they do, my blood boils.
Anyway, your post was excellent, and your words very true. Enough of my ramblings.
Posted by Judith at July 30, 2006 06:48 PM
Scout, Benito preaching to me is absolutely ludicrous. He spews hatred on this site, and then lectures me? Typical of his kind.
Posted by Judith at July 30, 2006 07:06 PMJdth, ys, thr s n nd t cst prls n frnt f pgs, s t s wrttn. Hwvr, pltcl blgs ftn pn th dr t ds, sm ncnt, yt nw t sm. t s n ccdnt tht TLC xsts; nr th thr s-clld ‘prfssnl’ blgs tht hv bn lckd nt dbtng, s f lt, ( trd vn thnkng f ll th thnkng).
hv mst crtnly rn nt svrl ppl tht thnk hghly f thmslvs n trms f ntllct, yt cn’t gt bynd thr ntns f hmnsm, scntsm nd vltnsm, n mttr hw mny cntrdctns prsnt. Ths s s bcs prr cndtnng tks prcdnc; r, qt plnly, r vry ntr s dprvd nd w wnt t rbl gnst th trth f Gd wrttn n r vry gntc cd. Ys, w r mst nsty. Dt 29:4 shws s jst hw lst w r.
Judith,
Thank you for the compliments on the posting. Though it was me, Crib, not Anjha. ;)
Posted by Liveliest Crib at July 30, 2006 07:18 PMLiveliest, my bad. Sorry, and thanks for your kind words.
Posted by Judith at July 30, 2006 07:25 PMScout, this blog is a political blog, not a religious blog. I think you are a bright person, articulate, and have some thought provoking ideas to offer. However, one of the problems with your postings, is that you seldom miss the chance to insert some religious point you want to make. The problems you ran into on this site was for that very reason.
Posted by Judith at July 30, 2006 07:34 PM"Well the self righteous Christ haters have had their say today."
Benito, this is a perfect example of your own self-righteous.
Posted by Judith at July 30, 2006 07:38 PMJesus fucking christ - is it the first of the year already?!
Jeez, I don't know who has it worse: Bendito being admired by Scout or Scout allying himself with Bendito.
Nope, must be us - for having to read through the vile to get to other people's posts.
I thought that Christian meant following the teachings of Christ?!
Seems that if that be the case then the above two "chosen" christians have shown us that christ was biggoted, hateful, boisterous, proud, selfish, demeaning, righteous, haughty and a liar.
Not the christ I was taught about. Not the christ I want to be associated with.
Nothing turns people to atheism more than the horrible examples above.
Posted by Anjha at July 30, 2006 07:56 PMJudith, thanks for the compliment; to be associated with Crib's writing is very nice.
Posted by Anjha at July 30, 2006 07:57 PMJdth, wht ‘trbl’ r y spkng f? Bt yr pnt f prsng rlgn nd pltcs gts rght t th cr f th prblm, fr w wld nt b n th pltcl prdcmnt tdy f w dhrd t Chrstn prncpls, vn f spprtd by Chrstn hypcrts. Jst lk t wht thstc-sclr-hmnsm, ys, th rlgn f hmnsm, hs ccmplshd: dvrc, mrrg ftr dvrc, nbrn nfntcd, dlztn f hmsxl/pdphl, xplttn f wmn n th wrk frc, ttl dstrctn f th fmly, ttl dstrctn f r dctn systm, ttl dstrctn f r pltcl systm, ttl dstrctn f r jdcl systm, dltn f ll spcts f scl mrlty, dlztn f prn nd chld prn, ttl dstrctn f mss md, wmn gvn thrty vr mn, ttl dstrctn f Chrstnty, dltn f ml ldrshp, nd, th mst ll-nfrmd vtrs th wrld hs vr prdcd, jst t nm cpl.
Th vry fndtn f th bv ttl ttck pn th trth f Chrstnty r r crprtns nd thr mny hndlrs. Tk jst n tny spct: mrcry, dlvrd wthn vccns t prsrv stckpls, nd stck nt chld. Wll, lk vryn knws tht tbcc css cncr, w’v knwn fr th lst 15 yrs tht th crp bys r prdcng fr s tchrs hg crp f ncntrllbl kds. Sm cll thm ‘tstc.’ Whn th phrmctcls ncrsd mrcry, r crp f tstcs ncrsd; whn thy dcrsd th mrcry, r crp f tstcs dcrsd. Jst crp, bt jst psn, nd ntntnl.
Wnt t tlk bt mcrwvs? vry sngl crp prdct, f cntrlld by th mjrs, hs cttng dg tht dstrys. ll f ths s jst n dmnsn f th hghly ttd hmnsm rlgn. D y s why th crp bys f 100 yrs g ndd t nnhlt ld-tm Chrstnty? Thy smply cldn’t gt wy wth ll f th crp ldng t thr mdrn ‘sccss.’ Yt, ll f th mdrn pltcls ccpt thr trsh s ‘cmmn sns.’
njh, why nt rd th Bbl, nstd f glnng trsh bt th Bbl frm thrs? B dvsd tht th Bbl my nt hlp, bt t lst y’ll hv rsnbl rgmnt, wtht cssng. Cssng mks y lk mnly, ’m sr.
Jdth, f y r tlkng bt cyt’s lttl trd nd my rspns wy bck whn, wll, sh ddn’t mn nythng by sng hr trsh mth s nly sh knws hw t s t. Stv ws t bsy t dqtly plc t blg, tht dy, ’m sr.
nyhw, t s crtcl fr y t ndrstnd tht rlgn s prt f ll spcts f lf. T bd tht pgnsm f hmnsm rls tdy.
Jdth, bt Bn, h s smply nt gng t tll y wht y wnt t hr. ls, Bn wll nt tll y wht h hmslf wnts y t hr. Bcs, s mntnd rlr, h s gng t tll y WHT Y DN’T WNT T HR: th trth f th Bbl. Frthr, nn f s wnt t hr th trth f th Bbl, fr t tlls s f r dprvty. Nw, y my nt ndrstnd ths, y my nvr ndrstnd ths, bt, ths s pblc rn: Gd wrks thrgh Hs ppl, lk Bn, t mk th cnnctns. By ‘cnnctns,’ mn tht Jhvh wll pn th ys f ths H hs st sd; nd t hs nthng t d wth thr bhvr, bt mr lk wnnng th lttry.
Nvrthlss, nythng tht n sys r ds gnst n f Gd’s chsn wll b hld ccntbl, thr n ths tm ln r th nxt.
Phid, Matt 7:1, when speaking about judgment, is a warning to false Christians about their standing before Jehovah.
My point exactly. You are a domininionist. You take a very eloquent and beautiful statement and twist it until it oozes shit. I can use the same device and prove to you god has sex with small marsupials, or that god was a monkey in a spaceship with a John Wayne accent (hey, that's from a really early porn feature titled Sodomy and Gamorrha. I highly recommend it).
Too bad that paganism of humanism rules today.
No. Too bad people like you only profess to be christians. Your knowledge and attitudes prove otherwise.
Posted by phidipides at July 30, 2006 08:59 PMphd, why gt ll mn? ll y hv t d s rd n thrgh Mtt 7 nd y'll s th cntxtl mnng. t's smpl pssg.
[Editor: ignore=off]Scout - What do you and your little friend Bendito think "Blessed are the Peacemakers" means? And dont give me some b.s about how it's refering to "consolations" only available to right wing, authoritarian types like Bendito.
Posted by jondee at July 30, 2006 10:43 PMJudith, thanks for the compliment; to be associated with Crib's writing is very nice.
Wow. Anjha, thank you. That meant a lot to me, really.
One thing, though (oh, boy, I shouldn't do this) . . .
Nothing turns people to atheism more than the horrible examples above.
Actually, most atheists I know reach their conclusions not based on the hypocritical actions of others, but merely through a lot of critical thinking about the issues. I say that not to denigrate the religious as non-thinkers, but we atheists do recognize that whether those who preach X practice X has nothing to do with whether X is true.
Of course, I imagine your statement was not intended for a theological discussion, but an offh-hand comment. See....I told ya I shouldn't do this. Why do I keep typing?
Stop, fingers! Stop! You don't need that extra excamation point! Ahhhh!
:)
Posted by Liveliest Crib at July 30, 2006 11:37 PM"Now, you may not understand this, you may never understand this, but, this is a public arena: God works through His people, like Ben, to make the connections."
"God is working through His people," like Ben." Oh pleeease Scout. Don't insult me. You obviously haven't read the hateful and dispicable posts written my Benito. All of a sudden Benito has become a saint? Life sure is funny.
No Scout, you missed my point. There are people here who are agnostic and those who don't believe at all. When you make a politically valid point, and then insert your religion into it, you diminish your comment in the eyes of many who read this Blog. When are you people going to understand that you cannot force feed God to anyone.
Yes, this is a "public arena". However, if you choose to post comments on religion, then you have to be prepared for the reaction of others who don't share your opinions.
Posted by at July 31, 2006 05:41 AMAbove by me.
Posted by Judith at July 31, 2006 05:47 AMJn, ‘blssd r th pcmkrs’ s drct rfrnc t ths tht r f th lct, th chsn f Gd. Thr stts hs nt n thng t d wth thr bhvr: fr thy wr st sd bfr Chrst md ths wrld. Thrfr, nt n f th lct wll stnd bfr Chrst n hs/hr wn mrt. D y s? ‘Pcmkr’ s NT pc wth fllw dprvd mn, pr sy, bt pc wth Gd. nd t ws Chrst tht pns th ys/rs f th lct t bgn th prcss f ndrstndng th tr ntr f rlty. gn, whn Gd spks f ‘pc,’ H s spkng f pc wth Hm, nt mn, fr mn s n cnstnt wr/rblln gnst Gd.
Pls cnsdr: mn’s vlnc, hstrclly, gnst hmslf s dflctn f hs rblln gnst Gd. W cn msr r htrd f Gd by vltng th mnt f vlnc gnst rslvs. ndd, vry ‘lw’, crss cltrs, s mrkr f r bsc dprvty/rblln gnst Gd, nd rslvs. Fr nstnc, f mrdr dd nt xst, w wld nt vn hv wrd fr ‘mrdr,’ mch lss lw gnst mrdr. Ths, fr th lst 13,000 yrs f hstry, w nt th ncrsd dprvty f mnknd jst by ntcng th ncrdbl ncrs n lws/rls/prcdrs, tc., nt vn cnsdrng th ncrdbl ncrs nd dvsttn n wrs. Nn f ths hv n thng t d wth scl cmplxty, tc., bt r drct crrltn wth mn’s ncrsd rblln gnst Gd nd th trth f th Bbl.
Jdth, n lght f th bv, d blv tht y my ndrstnd why wld b nly srprsd f mny n r TLC blg wld gr. hv wrkd wth ppl fr dcds, nd hv lrnd n thng: mn’s bsc dprvty s nsrmntbl. Ths s why rlr, ths yr, kpt hmmrng tht w mst frst lk nt th mrrr bfr pntng th fngr f glt t th dcdnc n DC. Th pltcls r ‘whrs.’ Why? Bcs, sprtlly, thy fl t vn try t b ‘tr’ hypcrts nd vn prtnd t fllw th rls f Bblcl trth. Tk jst n smll pltcl tm: trtr. W cndn trtr, vn s w ncrcrt r frnt ln chldrn tht trtr!
W cn nt chng nyn, fr th Bblcl bttr, nlss w frst chng rslvs, t lst try. nd th frst stp s t stdy th Bbl s f r vry lvs, nd ftr, dpnds pn t. nd t ds.
n fnl thng. Th mn md ntn f rltvty s mjr stmblng blck t ndrstndng th Bbl. Thr s nly n trth: nt 2300. ls, psd scnc cnfnds ndrstndng by ts rlgn f vltnsm. vltnsm, hmnsm, tc., smply cnfss th trth f th Bbl. Ths r mn-md ds; vry mn s lr: Chrst s nt lr.
Ahhh - I love the smell of religious insanity in the morning!
Usama Ben Ditto spewing hatred in the name of his Invisible Sky Fairy! And then presuming to lecture others about their ethical behavior. It's The Greatest Story Ever Told!
Posted by (: Tom :) at July 31, 2006 07:38 AMOkay Scout. Man is basically evil and only through Christ can he find salvation. Yes, we get the message Scout.
Posted by Judith at July 31, 2006 08:01 AMCrib - my comment was meant only to illustrate that religion, of any kind, should be recruiting based on attraction rather than promotion. What those two offer me is not very attractive. I was in no way discounting atheism and the soul-searching required for any faith decisions.
Posted by Anjha at July 31, 2006 09:59 AMIf the "elite" are already chosen and there is absolutely no action that anyone can do to garner the acceptance of christ then why would anyone attempt to live the right way? All that your crap does, Scout, is give religion a bad name by saying "neener, neener, neener, I'm chosen and you're not!"
If no one can do a fucking thing to redeem themselves or gain their own seat on the golden bus to heaven, then why waste my time (and yours) with your preaching?
Posted by Anjha at July 31, 2006 10:05 AMAhhh - I love the smell of religious insanity in the morning!
Sure is a good advertisement for the need of funding for the psych meds, huh Tom?!
Posted by Anjha at July 31, 2006 10:07 AMnjh, thr s cnsdrbl Bblcl vdnc tht xstnc n th nxt dmnsn wll b bsd pn lvl f vl. t wll b smlr t tdy’s clss systm tht vryn s thrghly njys. Ths, ths frthst wy frm th trth wll fl lttl mr sffrng, tc. Ths ds nt mn tht pr ppl n r dmnsn r vl; t cld b qt th ppst s w nt th vl n r pwr lt tdy. Thrfr, th rlrs f th nxt dmnsn cld vry wll b th hmlss nd pvrty strckn f tdy. ll f th bv s Bblcl.
Why ll th cssng? t s crtcl t ndrstnd tht th Bblcl pstn f ‘lct’ f Gd s nt n f prd, bt n f hmlty. Th chsn wp fr fllw hmns bcs thy d nt hv th blty t nflnc Chrst’s pr-md-p mnd. Yt, w cn pnt t svrl Bblcl tms tht wll hlp lf n ths wrld, nd, s pntd t n th bv, n th nxt, prhps. Jhvh ftn pnts t tht H wll hlp ths tht sk Hm. Bt skng Hm s nythng bt sy, yt H s nt fr ff.
Crib - my comment was meant only to illustrate that religion, of any kind, should be recruiting based on attraction rather than promotion.
Posted by Anjha at July 31, 2006 09:59 AM
I know, Anjha. No worries. I was trying to make a gentle point and keep my tongue as firmly planted in my cheek as I could.
;)
Posted by Liveliest Crib at July 31, 2006 04:31 PM