This is what happens every time religion gets out in front of God.

Baptists=lunatics.

Yeah Pessimist, I posted that story in the open thread. Absolutely unbelievable, but remember some churches like the Baptist, Fundamentalist and Opus Dei are at the extreme end of Christianity. I am also sure that Catholics use Timothy to keep women from becoming priests.

In the New Testament, Timothy says "I never let women teach men". "I" to me denotes that Timothy doesn't believe that women should teach men. He doe not say Jesus says. However, people who want to control women would use this verse to back up their belief that women should be seen but not heard.

The mainstream churches, other than Catholics, have thousands and thousands of ministers who are female. In fact, the Church that my Mother attends has a black women as their Pastor, and she is dearly loved. Again, don't lose site that the First Baptist Church is in the minority and the Pastor obviously is in the wrong.

I wonder if there is a suit in this dismissal?

Isn't it interesting that Jesus first showed himself to a women after resurrection and instructed her to go "tell" or "teach" the others that he had risen? He didn't choose a male.

Ah, the modern trinity:

-American Democracy
-Family Values
-The Gospel of Jesus as revealed in the Old Testament

To Judith above. The "good Christian"/"bad Christian" distinction doesn't work anymore. The kind of thinking at the First Baptist Church elected George W. Bush, stacked our Supreme Court, etc. We're not going to listen to that kind of "we"/"they" business about Christianity until the "good Christians" are our marching in the streets with us trying to fight the insanity of the Religious Right.

Baptist minister? He was trying to have sex with her and she said "No" .That's why he fired her. Either that or he is having sex with her male replacement. These guys are all the same.

pss, hv t tll yr wht y nd mny smply d nt wnt t hr. Frst, th ntr Bbl s th wrd f Gd. t's nt bt wht Tmthy sd, r wht Pl sd, r wht ms sd, tc. Th ld Tstmnt sts p th Nw Tstmnt n trms f ndrstndng, mng thrs thngs.

Gd cnstrctd mn wth chn f cmmnd, xctly lk w hv chn f cmmnd n th mltry, r n ny scl strctr. t gs Chrst, hsbnd, wf nd thn chldrn. Wmn r nt t hv thrty vr mn n trms f scl stts. Tdy, mn md ntns prmt ths s sm frm f sxsm. Wht mn s syng tht thy knw mr thn Gd. H md s, nd H knws xctly hw w wll bst fnctn t fllw Hs Lw.

r Blshvk scty hs prmt nt-Chrst mn md lws. W nw hv wmn wth thrty vr mn, brtn, hmsxl/pdphl, nd th nr ttl dstrctn f ll scl nstttns n r cntry tht wr stll smwht cnnctd jst fw shrt dcds g.

m ld ngh t rmmbr wht t ws lk n th 50's. hv grwn p nd wtchd, nd ys, stpdly spprtd th dsmntlng f Bblcl Lw, s prtnng t r scl nstttns, bcs thght t ws th rght thng. Wll, 'v cm fll crcl whn rlzd tht th kds tght drng th 70's wr fr hlthr thn my kds f tdy. cn't tll y hw prfnd grf flt whn rlzd tht ws n th wrng pth, nd tchng my kds mn md ntns dsgnd t nt nly dstry thmslvs, bt r scty tslf.

ws cmpltly wtht ndrstndng f ny frm f rlgs prncpls bynd cdmcs. bgn t rn thrgh, crflly, th Krn, ll Hnd mtrl, ll Bddhsts mtrl, bt 23 pgn frms f sllnss, nd rd thrgh vry sngl trnsltn f th Bbl. Rdng cms sy t m, s m nt syng th bv t mprss nyn.

Smwhr, s ws gng thrgh th Gnv Bbl, r th KJV, cn't rmmbr whch, th trth f th Bbl strck. t ws t tht pnt, whn ws bt 40 yrs ld, tht my tr dctn bgn.

n smmry, t s crtcl fr ll t ndrstnd tht w, by ntr, r n rblln gnst Gd. Ths s th src f hmn sffrng: rslvs. nc r ncnt prnts rgd wth Gd bt th rls, w wr ct ff frm drct tchng frm Gd, fr th mst prt. ll w hv, n trms f tr rlty, s th Bbl.

wll lv th ncrdls wth ths ntn: wht f r nthrplgst, sclgsts, nd psychlgsts, wth thr stndrd f bhvr tht spss rltvty mng cltrs, gt t wrng? Wht f vry sngl thng n th Bbl ws frm sprntrl bng tht wld mk Q, f str trk, lk lk n . Cl?

These fucking Pharisee scum are not Christians.

They are antiChristians.

Ironic how these fundiefucks habitually skip over the New Testament.

Fundamentalists are nothing new. They can be abrasive, angry, judgmental and downright mean, but they are not true representatives of any of the faiths for which they claim to speak. I say that because every major religion has had its share. Fundamentalist Muslims have made many non-Muslims fear that religion, and yet the Muslim faith, at its core, remains a peace-loving faith. Fundamentalist Jews have made many non-Jews fear that religion, and yet the Jewish faith, at its core, remains a peace-loving faith. And Fundamentalist Christians have made many non-Christians fear that religion, and yet the Christian faith, at its core, remains a peace-loving faith. It's only when Fundamentalists are allowed to gain political power that their existence is a threat to mankind.

First, the entire Bible is the word of God.

That's as much as I could stomach of that comment. The Bible has been interpreted many times with many different results. Which one is "the word of God"? And that's rhetorical because as having gone through 8 years of Catholic school, I believe the Bible is full of Parables, not stories to be taken literally. In fact, some of the stories contradict each other. "Word of God"?
I don't think so
*wagging my head*

Someone's still tryin' to play with half a deck I see.

Jdth, th DC pltcls, nd thr fllwrs, r dmn spwn, nt fndmntlsts. Flwll, Rbrtsn, Grhm, r nt blvrs, bt dltrs. Thy tll thr bs, r whvr wll lstn, wht thy wnt t hr. D y lk dvrc? Thn thy wll tch tht t's K t dvrc nstd f Bblcl lw. D y lk th stt f srl? Thn thy wll tll y tht srl s prt f Gd's pln nstd f th trth tht srl hs nthng t d wth Chrst, r Hs wn.

Yr pnt bt fndmntlsm crss rlgns mrly rflcts ths tndncy f mn t ft trdtns wthn whtvr crrnt styls xst. Ths, 'lbrl' Chrstns, dltrs ls, wll sps tht wmn shld b n th plpt, nd gnr Bblcl lw. Th sm s tr fr ll thr hthn rlgns rgrdng fttng th rlgn t grwng scty f chs.

Jhvh sw ths tndncy nd tlls s n Rv tht th chrch wld bcm 'Bbyln,' n tht t wll b rld by th tsd cltr. My pnt s tht thr s nly trth nd thn vrythng ls s mn md dltry. Th 'fnd' scl cnstrct s nthr crp trm dsgnd t cnfs nd dstrt th hypcrt fllwrs f Chrstnty.

"How to Fight the Religious Right"

http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/deist1999/fight_rel.htm

Mickey, I understand your anger and frustration. I feel the same way, and yet I know that there are religious groups fighting against the thinking of the fundamentalists. Unfortunately, their voices need to be heard louder and more often. Again, we all are not wackos. There are many on this Blog that are Christians or of other religious faiths, and they are speaking out against these fascists.

Fundamentalism is a terrible threat to mainstream religion. Because of their unfounded and unChristian belief system, all Christians have become very vulnerable to attacks. I am sure you do not believe, or I hope you don't believe, that all Muslims are a reflection of the extremists. The Muslim religion is a peaceful and loving faith, but they too are lumped into the pile of extremists to be hated and feared.

Do we need to speak out more? Yes, I couldn't agree with you more on that issue.

Scout:

Those are some really screwed up thoughts. Let me in on something. You are no different than the Taliban. You have some megascrewed up thoughts.

You must also not believe in evolution. Do you ever take medicine. How can you take medicine when the root of most modern medicine is evolution.

You have some mega mental problems buddy.

snrk, swr, ws wndrng whr y'v bn.

Shrn, n trgt, prtlly. Th ntr Bbl s wrttn n prblc lngg; why? T cnfs th nsvd. Gd ds nt wnt ths wtht rs nd ys t ndrstnd th Bbl.

hv sm mr bd nws tht wll snd y t th ppt, gss. Th Cthlc Chrch hsn't hd cl bt th Bbl snc th tm f rgn, bt 200 D, r s.

nywy, th Bbl hs thr lvls f nlyss, tht knw f, myb mr: hstrcl, mrl nd th hrdst, sprtl. S, ys, th hstrcl strs ctlly hppnd. Jnh, ys, nsd th whl, whl shrk, shrk, fsh, r whtvr, nd srvvd. Jnh, n th whl, ws pctr f Chrst pyng th cst fr ppl fr Hmslf. Th bv Jnh sntncs dpct tw spcts f nlyss: hstrcl nd sprtl. Thr's mrl n thr smwhr bt cn't thnk f t.

shml, thght y wr n vctn. Yr bsrvtn, bt th Tlbn, hs sm sbstnc n cpl wys.

Frst, y my b thnkng bt hw th Tlbn blw p th Bddhst dls. Th Tlbn dd lgn thmslvs tghtly wth th Krn, thy ls dn't lk drgs r lchl.

Yt, th Krn, whl t clms t stdy Jhvh, s n mr bt Gd thn th Mrmns r Jrry Flwll. Thy r ll dltrs, vn th Tlbn whn thy blw p thr ncnt dls. Th n thng tht ll dltry hs n cmmn s ts nsstnc tht mn's ctns wll mprss Gd: mn's ctns nvr mprss Chrst.

d tk mtrx fr n ccsnl mgrn, nd th stff wrks.

pss, lmst frgt, th Bbl sys tht wmn my ld chldrn. dn't ndrstnd th Bblcl fndtn fr rmvng th ld Bbl tchr f chldrn Sndy schlrs. Ths, smthngs ls s gng n hr, bt th crp md jmpd n th tpc. Why?

"Your point about fundamentalism across religions merely reflects this tendency of man to fit traditions within whatever current styles exist. Thus, 'liberal' Christians, idoloters also, will espouse that women should be in the pulpit, and ignore Biblical law. The same is true for all other heathen religions regarding fitting the religion to a growing society of chaos."

You know Scout, I have tried to not get into an argument with you on most issues, however, I can no longer be silent. It is because of your arguments on this Blog that has germinated the seeds of distain for Christians. It has been because of your self-rightiousness and all knowing attitude which you use to 'inform us' that does more to work against the principals of Christianity than anything else.

Christ did indeed break bread with the prostitutes, the thieves, the down trodden and misguided. He understood them, and it was his love that transformed them. You might try doing that instead of preaching hell, fire and damnation. The Old Testament is dead Scout.

"Thus, 'liberal' Christians, idoloters also, will espouse that women should be in the pulpit, and ignore Biblical law."

Yeah, I am sure they are going to hell for teaching about the love of Christ.

There's a lawsuit coming on this one, count on it. People sue former employers for all sorts of discrimination, real or imagined, all the time. To steal George Tenet's phrase, it's a "slam dunk."

The Bible? It's a nice storybook, but to believe that a bunch of white men transcribed the "actual word of God" with absolutely no agenda is a joke. Everything is subject to interpretation, even the "word of God." And btw, I go to an Episcopal Church that has a lesbian Rector. I have learned so much from her, it would be a sin if she hadn't been allowed to preach.

Ann, can she sue for job discrimination when she is not on the payroll?

Scout my friends is a fundamentalist. I am very slow on the 'uptake'.

Organized religion: fairy tales for morons.

Except the hucksters that peddle it; at least they're getting paid.

I will leave the incredulous with this notion: what if our anthropologist, sociologists, and psychologists, with their standard of behavior that espouses relativity among cultures, got it wrong?

If only they would have had faith and personal belief rather than science to guide them. Why, who knows, we might all be living in a biblical paradise...like Salem! They had belief and faith in spades.

The entire Bible is written in parabolic language; why? To confuse the unsaved.

Uhh huhh. Otherwise, we would assume it was written by people who didn't know what caused an eclipse. Or, like Revelations, written about social problems of the time. Or we could assume it was a history book written in allegory because by the time people started writing the stories were pretty old. These are irrational explanations, though. god is mysterious in many mysterious mystery inducing ways.

And why would you confuse the unsaved? Because god loves to burn people in hell! You see, he made a monkey man to worship him...no ego there...and burns him in hell if he can't figure out the parabolic language. That's a tricky god! And one that is full of love.

I realized that the kids I taught during the 70's were far healthier than my kids of today.

It's because the kids of today are more religious than in the 70's, and more exposed to the christian religion.

I knew scout wouldn't be able to leave this thread alone, but repeating, verbatim, his words of silliness from three months ago? Come on scout, if you're going to be boring, tedious and obnoxious, sexist, and completely without any spiritual understanding, and least be creative about it!

And incidentally scout, Mary Magdalene was First Apostle, well ahead of Peter and the rest in Jesus’ eyes. Unfortunately, the twisted, angry old men that wrote the bible didn't like that idea, so they changed it. Mores the pity. Have you ever read the Lost Gospels, scout? I suspect not, and that's a shame, as they are a far truer account of the life of Jesus.

Ann, can she sue for job discrimination when she is not on the payroll?

I think so. I've heard about volunteers suing organziations before. In this case, it's a clear case of discrimination. Scout leaders don't get paid, do they? It may take an organizational lawsuit rather than an individual one.

"It's because the kids of today are more religious than in the 70's, and more exposed to the christian religion."

Actually Phidipides, I think that may be incorrect. The problem is "busy kids" or overly scheduled kids. This fact has generated a general decline in church attendance. Some kids and families have to many options to adjust in order to make more time for church.

Also, many sport activities for children are now played on Sunday.

Ann, you may be right about that. I hope she is the type of woman who will sue these bastards to kingdom come (pun intended). Over 50 years of service teaching little children about Christ and this yahoo fires her? He should thank God that I am not that woman.

Dear Pastor LeBouf,

It is with some concern that I hear that you have let a well trained and dedicated Sunday School teacher go due to gender issues.

Mr. LeBouf, our noble President George W. bush has been active in trying to increase trade with Afghanistan in an effort to curtail criminal drug trafficking. Now, I am aware of a certain Mr. Wakil of Spin Boldak, Afghanistan who is an exceptionally talented tailor.

Mr. Wakil has a clothing item that may resolve several issues within the church. The clothing item is for women only and is called by its Pashtun name, a "Burqa." This "Burqa" is a complete covering for a woman which has long been used for both preservation of modesty, and keeping warm in the harsh climate of winter, high mountain Afghanistan. The similarities between the rather ferocious Nothern New York winter and Afghanistan are several.

If Ms. Lambert were clad in the "Burqa" then no one would know that Ms. Lambert really was a Ms. Thus Ms. Lambert's modesty would certainly be maintained, and by her efforts to remain modest and chaste, this would serve as a truly great example for the faithful.

Pastor LeBouf, I put it to you that the entire flock would be well served in the eyes of the Lord if the entire female contingent of the congregation were clad in Mr. Wakil's beautiful blue "burqas." No longer would there be any upmanship between the wealthy females and those of lesser circumstances over who has the nicer finery. Note how avarice and resentfulness would be eliminated among the females, all clad alike in their gorgeous modesty preserving "burqas." No longer would there be any distraction of the males by shapely females inciting lustful thoughts through flashy and unGodly apparel.

It would be reasonable for the female members of the congregation to be able to remove their "Burqas" after services, of course, But, wouldn't it be a real testament, and real, live witnessing in the streets and homes if the female members of your congregation wore their "Burqas" at all times when going and coming from home, or when non-related male friends of the family come and visit?

Thus Pastor LeBouf, I offer this suggestion to you as a way to still the waters made rippled by your decision to relieve Ms. Lambert of her job, and also help Ms. Lambert and possibly every single female member of the congregation be more modest and chaste; thus setting the finest example for the community. And, the added enefit Pastor, of retaining Ms. Lambert's no doubr excellent services as regards teaching the faithful.

I seek no money or reward for this suggestion sir. It is merely offered for your kind consideration.

Sincerely,

Boilerman10

I realized that the kids I taught during the 70's were far healthier than my kids of today.

I don't think the health of children has anything to do with whether they believe that scout's Bible is the true word of God. Kids didn't have so many distractions in the 70s. No video games, computer chat rooms, DVDs, etc. Obesity wasn't so prevalent then, either, is that because kids in the 50s feared God? I seriously doubt that ALL kids in the 50s feared God, anyway.

It was a different world. Parents didn't view their children as "products" that they could refine and promote as much as they do now. Kids could be kids back then. Now, we've got everyone so scared of everything that kids are programmed to be mini-adults who must succeed in nursery school to get into the best kindergarten.

Boilerman10, I hope that is a real letter sent to this idiot. Oops, I'm sorry. That was out of line wasn't it. I should never direct a question to a man unless he gives me permission to speak.

Oh, yes, lots less accumulated environmental pollution in the 70s. Not so much autism, ADD/ADHD, etc. Don't laugh, I am absolutely serious. The toxins in the environment bioaccumulate and many cause learning and behaviorial disabilities. Were we putting pre-teens on anti-depressants in the 70s? A little Ritalin, but nothing like today's over-medicating.

Judith,

I was trying to convey my dismay at the mounting extremeism so close to where I live.

The attitude of Pastor LeBouf reminds me of a Pakistani streaming radio interview I heard in 2003. The conversation was with a former member of "The Committee for the Prevention of Vice and Preservation of Virtue" with the Taliban regime who was bemoaning the state of the nation and virtue during the occupation.

The speaker considered the Burqa a godsend. He really meant it!

I read this about LeBouf and I just hear that broadcast again. The gap between the Afghan Taliban and the Christian fundies is a narrow gap indeed.

If you would like to clean up the posting, and correct my typos and send it along to LeBouf, please, by all means do so.

thank you for your reply!

Have a great day.

Analysis of Paul's letters to Timothy:

We need to understand that God has used women in leadership and authority over men - Deborah the judge of Israel, Esther the Queen, and others. Here in Ephesus - where Timothy is a pastor - Aquila and his wife Priscilla took Apollos - a man - and both of them - husband and wife together - Aquila and Priscilla taught Apollos about Jesus. Later when Paul comes to Ephesus - Paul never reprimands them - never says Priscilla was wrong to instruct a man. In 1 Corinthians 11 Paul gives instructions to women as to how they’re to pray and to teach Scripture in the Church (1 Corinthians 11:3-16). So, whatever understanding we come to about these verses must fit with what the rest of Scripture teaches about women in ministry. And, we need to remember that Paul is focusing on the heart attitude of women.

Notice how our pew Bibles translate verse 11, “a woman must quietly receive instruction.” Then in verse 12 - regarding authority - women are “to remain quiet” - same word. In 2 Thessalonians 3:12 - Paul writing to men and women who were being busybodies in the church - Paul exhorts them to work in “quiet fashion” - same Greek word as here in 1 Timothy 2. One English translation puts it, “urge them to settle down.” or “to be peaceable

This site should answer the question about women and the Church once and for all, as far as I am concerned. By-the-way, that Pastor who fired Mary at the First Baptist Church, according to the Paul, would be considered out of line.

http://www.gospelflava.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=3&topic_id=12189&mesg_id=12189&page=

Boilerman10, your point was well made. I had the same thoughts when I read the article about the firing. These fundamentalists are not far from the teachings of the Taliban in many ways. There are those who will use the Bible to their own ends without any knowledge of the Word. What these people fail to understand is that the Bible is layers of truth and meanings, and in some cases, downright difficult to understand without considerable amount of knowledge. Parables are not always easy to understand either.

Anyway, I think you should send your letter. You made your point in a very concise manner.

Religion is the root of all evil.

Actually Phidipides, I think that may be incorrect. The problem is "busy kids" or overly scheduled kids.

The kids I've got coming to me now are more religious than I have ever been exposed to. Yes, this is bible-banger land, but I've actually had people discuss creationism as a fact compared to the beliefs of evolution. They are more religious, and often irrationaly so. I saw a study, can't think where, that teenagers beliefs are more similar to their grandparents beliefs. Regardless, the 60's and 70's were a period of questionning authority and the established social order. What scout is seeing is that his current students are unquestioning drones. It's what the christo-fascists are after: Unquestioning drones.

So scout. What you're saying is the bible is the word of god and the "truth." But that truth is wrapped up in riddles (the bible - the ultimate book of jokes, I suppose) so the "unsaved" won't sneak their way in. Wouldn't want the riffraff to get a piece of heaven, now, would we? And anyone who won't listen to you is "unsaved." But wait, Jesus said anyone can enter the kingdom of heaven - be saved - through him. Sounds to me like someone's got themselves a Messiah complex.

Really, don't bother answering, because when you think you're "teaching" what's really going on is you're gloating about being the only person to interpret the bible properly and everyone else is going to hell. As Judith said, your interpretation drives people from Christianity, not toward it. I would guess that's your purpose, since there's only 144,000 seats on your comet to heaven. I'm just wondering when you're gonna do all of us a favor and chop off your balls, buy a pair of Nikes and drink the ultimate koolaid waiting for that spaceship to pick you up.

I was doing some work in the southeast and I would walk into a Starbucks in the morning to get coffee and a half of a dozen of people would be sitting and different tables reading the bible and I had to suppress laughter.

Most of them did not even know or understand what is happening currently and they are digging around in a book put together 1800 years ago. I don't know why they don't just dig around in some entrails to divine the future.

I have hiked the Grand Canyon three times and I just about crack a rib laughing when they say that it was dug by Noah's flood.

The thing that really gets me is the denial of evolution. Some of these people say that the fossil record does not support evolution when they do not understand the major tool now to study evolution is genetics.

Most science teachers and scientists will tell you that evolution is the foundation of biology. Without the theory of evolution most modern medicines would not exist. Accordingly, my proposal is if you deny the existence of evolution then you should not take any modern medicine. That should eliminate these faulty genes from our gene pools in a couple of generations.

The last thing that gets me is this. Let's say a God does exist and he constructed the Universe and everything in it. To contemplate that any human brain could understand what God thinks is just a plain fool. It would be like an ant attempting to explain a human being. God is incomprehensible by the human race with our current knowledge. For instance God must be able to travel in excess of the speed of light which with our current knowledge we say impossible (even though there is no a Variable Speed of Light theory). That is why I laugh at it all. Most people do not even understand the Theory of Relativity and they think they understand what God thinks. Unfreaking believable.

For those who have not seen it, I suggest the movie "What the Bleep do we know." A good intro to our ignorance.

If you want to read something that would be a kick in the head to most mainstream Christians read the article entitled: "What the Devil? Prince of Darkness Is Misunderstood, Says UCLA Professor". Trust me, it's worth it.

Link: http://www.physorg.com/news75128924.html

Now we have to fight them here!!..see!

please, when a majority of a group is insane, one calls the group insane, right?
any other questions?

Been teaching there for 54 years? One way to get rid of the deadwood. (Other than keep 'em barefoot and pregnant & one step ahead of their relatives.)

Also show the benefits of working in a private school, where atheistic secular benefits and protections do not apply.

Jdth, whn Chrst sd tht H cm fr snnrs H ws pntng t th fct tht ths wh blvd thmslvs t b snnrs wr f th lct. Prd s th stndrd md f prtn fr th nsvd; thrfr, th nsvd cm p wth myrd f jstfctns fr thr bhvr, ll bsd pn prd. Ths, ys, Chrst cm fr snnrs, bcs H cm t mk t pymnt fr th lct. H nt nly t wth prsttts, bt gds ths vry prsttts t trth, f thy r f th lct.

Chrst cm t flfll th Lw, th ld Tstmnt. Whn Gd spks f lv, H s spkng f th mny rsns H llws ths tmln t cntn. Th bttm s tht th chsn r prmnt, thrght r tmln. Gd s lv mns tht t s Hs lv tht cntns ths tmln, mks th pymnt nt t dstry th chsn, nd mntns ll lf, s wll s ll physcl rlty sch s th csms.

t s crtcl t rmmbr tht th Bbl, cmplt Bbl, s th Lw f Chrst. Whn w rwrt th Bbl, w hv dltry. Thr s nly n ndrstndng f th Bbl.

T shw, sng n cncpt tht hts pn phd’s pnt, hw bth th ld nd nw tstmnts cnnct, wll gv jst tw vrss dpctng hw Jhvh wrt th Bbl fr th lct t ld hmnty:

Dt 29:4. ‘Yt th LRD hth nt gvn y n hrt t prcv, nd ys t s, nd rs t hr, nt ths dy.’ Th bv s Mss spkng t th rblls srls ftr 40 yrs f wlkng thrgh th dsrt, ys nd rs physclly sng Chrst vrydy, fd by Chrst, vrydy, clthng nd shs nt wrng t fr 40 yrs, tc.

Mtt 13:15. ‘Fr ths ppl's hrt s wxd grss, nd thr rs r dll f hrng, nd thr ys thy hv clsd; lst t ny tm thy shld s wth thr ys, nd hr wth thr rs, nd shld ndrstnd wth thr hrt, nd shld b cnvrtd, nd shld hl thm. 16. Bt blssd r yr ys, fr thy s: nd yr rs, fr thy hr.’ Chrst s xplnng why H ss prbls t tch th gspl. Nt tht th lct r gvn th gft f ndrstndng.

nn nd tmp, y r srchng fr tht whch mks sns t y, ll bsd pn mn md ntns tht hv cndtnd yr prcptn. Snc r chrctr s rblls nd dprvd, w cn nt trst r flngs r prcptn bsd pn prr cndtnng nd/r ‘dctn.’

nn, kds n th 50’s, r t ny tm prd, ddn’t fr Gd mr r lss, s fr s knw. Fr, th fr f Gd s pr-rdnd gft, gft f prr slctn. Nvrthlss, ppl f ll prr gnrtns, thrght th chrch g, rgrdlss tht thy wr hypcrts, whch thy wr, wr clsr t th trth. Tdy w hv 2300 mn md ntns f pgnsm, rngng frm slm t vltnsm t hmnsm, ll cmptng nd dstrctng chldrn nd dlts frm th trth f th Bbl.

nn, ’m ff tpc hr, bt pprct yr bsrvtn bt kds bng kds drng ystryr. Crp, rd hrss vry sngl dy ntl my btt hrt s bd tht my mm rdrd m t wrk th mrs n ln fr fw dys. ws lvn. nd, n trgt bt plltn drng th 60’s. ndstry jst spwd th crp, cldn’t cr lss bt nyn r nythng.

Jdth, Jhvh ws crfl bt Hs chn f cmmnd, Chrst, mn, wmn, nd chldrn. sthr, Dbr, Prscll ll hd mn, Mrdc, Brk nd
ql. Ths ds nt mn tht wmn wr scnd clss, bt nly scnd n cmmnd n stts. sthr ws pctr f Chrst; Dbr pctr f th ncnt n, th Fthr, nd Prscll s pctr f Chrst.

f y dn’t lk th bv, thn y wn’t lk ths: thr s bsltly n sprtn f chrch/stt. Thr s t m th sm chn f cmmnd n cltrs s drng th chrch g. gn, knw y dn’t wnt t hr ths, bt th chn f cmmnd s mltry typ strctr n tht Chrst gds th mn frst, thn th wmn, thn th chldrn, n cscdng fshn f sprtl ndrstndng. dffclt, f nt mpssbl cncpt n r mdrn dcdnt scty. Ths, yr pstr frnd s nly t f ln n nt crtczng th fct tht wmn ws rnnng th lcl cty gvrnmnt. Wmn rnnng vr mls=Stnc dmnnsm, t brrw sc f trm frm phd, f t‘s K. Ths s cmpltly Bblcl.

Stv, th rt f ll vl s mny nd prd, s w rd n th Bbl. Nw, rlgns, fls ns, r ll cnstrctd frm mn md ds bsd pn prd nd g-t-ln typ f thnkng. Ths, y r prtlly crrct.

Cyt, ys, th Bbl s bk f prbls, mr thn rddls, lthgh s yr pnt. s ’v pntd t n th pst, Chrst sys tht nly th lct r t b svd frm Hs dstrctn, nt vryn. m nt gltng, bcs hv nthng t glt bt snc cn tk zr crdt fr bng st sd. Ths s why th chsn r hmbl, r prd gt s n whr wth Chrst.

shml, bt th rlgn f vltnsm. Lk ll fls rlgns, ppl s wht thy wnt t s. Thr s vltnsm nd thr s scnc bt thr s bsltly nt ‘vltnry scnc.’ knw smthng bt scnc, s hv svrl pst grdt dgrs. nywy, y cn nt frc vltnsm pn scnc nymr thn y cld frc th trsh pn tr Chrstnty, fr th trms r xymrnc bsrdty. Y smply wll nt fnd n shrd f mttnl prgrssn n th wrld, mch lss th nvrs. Th kks f vltnsm cntn t cnfs cmmn chrctrstcs wth cmmn ncstry. Why? Bcs thy s wht thy wnt t s.

jst gt flvr f th bv wth th rcnt dth f my lttl brthr. H wnt t th hsptl fr hrt srgry. Thy pnd hm p, rplcd vlv, bcs tht’s wht thy wntd t ‘s’ s th prblm, clsd hm p nd h dd sx mnths ltr f lkm. Th dctrs sd tht thy gt t wrng. H wld hv dd nywy, bt y s my pnt. W thnk nsd bx nd rfs t cnsdr tsd th bx thnkng vn s w prtnd t b rgnl.

I have nothing to gloat about since I can take zero credit for being set aside. This is why the chosen are humble, our pride got us no where with Christ.

Now that's some funny shit.

And my sympathy's regarding the loss of your brother.

Scout,

Fundamentalism is about neither boxes, nor boundaries. It is about control.

It is pridefulness amplified to its maximum intensity.

Believing is one thing. Going fundi is no longer believing, it is demanding. Believing is quiet and beautiful. Fundy is neither believing, nor quiet, nor beautiful. It is anger, pridefulness and demanding, and the path leads to death. How many times has man walked that path?

My condolances on your loss. Stick to God. Not shouting and howling men who scream how Godly it will be, instead of how Godly it already is.

I guess now we know what drove scout crazy. Sad that people turn to a cruel god when bad things happen to them. But that's how it is with egotistical idiots like Mr. Prophet here. He's so vain, I'm sure he thinks this post is just for him to preach his gospel of hate.

If there were such things as gods, you, scout, are working for the other side.

Ishmael, there are Christians that see no problem with evolution, as many of the Bill Moyer's participates have pointed out. Neither do I.

It's telling that all religions besides the one in scout's head are "false" to him, even something like evolution, which has more evidence than his made up belief system, and isn't a religion at all. The thing is, all the things that he hates all have the basic characteristic of challenging his grip on his own religion of one. You'll notice he never says, "I believe," he says "this is how it is." Something so certain is definitely on very shaky ground indeed. It's the same with all rabid fundies - they don't want you to just let them believe what they want to believe - they need you to convert or die, they need to drag someone else into their pathology to validate their own. scout has created his own religion where everyone but he and benditto die. Scary, isn't it? I'll bet as we learn more, there will be human sacrifice as well. And snakes!

As we learn more about this sad sack, a picture forms: Granny with her authoritative backwoods ways, skinning animals in front of him (women in authority terrify him); a misdiagnosed brother (false gods); his wife leaving (goddam whores). I get the impression he may have been raped in prison, hence his problem with gays. And notice how his number of degrees is growing - validation that he knows more than anyone else. Poor deluded thing. Best we just ignore him, because in his head, every response validates his pathology.

Well, I am humble enough to tell you that I do not know, have never known, and will never know in my lifetime, the mind of God.

By-the-way Scout, you take a truth, drop a little poison in, and contaminate the whole truth.

"Woman running over males=Satanic dominonism"

Scout, what religion are you? No one has ever asked that question. I know it is not mainstream religion. So what is it?

I am not going to further respond to your posts. I have said all that I have to say.

Sorry though about your Brother.

"You'll notice he never says, "I believe," he says "this is how it is." Something so certain is definitely on very shaky ground indeed. It's the same with all rabid fundies - they don't want you to just let them believe what they want to believe - they need you to convert or die."

Iamcoyote, that is why fundamentalism is so dangerous. It is the reason that millions of people have died in the name of reigion thoughout the centuries.

It's pretty simple. The reverend is an asshole. All groups have some, including the extreme Left (look around yourself).

But luckily there's such a thing as separation of church and state in this country. That means that if he doesn't want a woman doing the job, then that's his decision. But he does have to answer to his church, who might have something to say about this.

By the way, when an individual judges the majority of a group "insane", the first question that should leap out at us is "are we dealing with a bigot"? The majority of Christians have done nothing to deserve this kind of abuse.

Add to your favorites.

The Radical Right is often shocking. Sometimes terrifying. Often absurd! One thing it shouldn’t be is ignored. Part of our mission to counter the efforts of the Far Right is to share with activists our ongoing research to expose who the Radical Right is, what its agenda is, and how truly dangerous it can be to our country.

Our latest effort is our newly launched People For the American Way blog, www.RightWingWatch.org, where you can stay up to date on the latest tactics and craziness from the Right. Share it with your friends. Educate your neighbors. We hope it helps energize your own activism.

cyt, rlly, 'm nt yr x. Bsds, dn't knw nythng. smply spk bt dctn t shw tht 'v bn thrgh th rlgs dctrns f vltnsm, ths, bn thr, dn tht.

mntnd th dth nly bcs th cntxt ws crrct; ws smply wrtng frm th hrt, tryng t s prsnl hstry t ndrln vld pnt.

Jdth, ws sng scrptr t cntr yr crs pnts bt th Bbl, yt y gt pst? Why? s scrptr n rspns t cntr; wh knws, my lrn smthng. nywy, f cld, myb smdy wll tll y vrythng tht y wnt t hr, nd w'll b frnds. Nvrthlss, f mst spk th trth bt tr Chrstnty, bth f s my nt wnt t hr t. nd t gts wrs wth ch pssng wk, t sms.

blr, fndmntlsm s psd frm f Chrstnty, ths gr wth yr bsc prms. Hwvr, b dvsd tht thr s th trth f th Bbl, t's rl, nd ll tr Chrstns ndrstnd ths trth n th sm wy. Ys, thr r fw f s, fr sr.

Cyt, ys, s 'v sd bfr th gspl s bt lf nd dth. Th dth s t jdgmnt dy, nt bfr, f ndrstnd crrctly.

Fnlly, Jdth, rmmbr t's bt chn f cmmnd. W hv th pctr f ncnt Jzbl tht shws s tht r mdrn crp cltr wy f dng thngs s Jzbl ntrntnl. Th mny hndlrs f 100 yrs g sd th Jzbl tl t dstry r cltr. Stdy mdrn srl nd y'll nt cpl tms: frst, nly Jws my mmgrt; nd scnd, y'll s fmls r vwd n n ldr fshn wthn gvt. nd bsnss. Ths s nt n ccdnt, r sxsm, r whtvr. Th Jws flly ndrstnd th fml psych nd ts pwr f ttl cntrl, fr thy rd th ld Tstmnt.

snrk, y knw m wr f yr ntllct; why r y hldng bck? nd thnks.

Jdth thnks.

Blr thnks.

H dd wll.

...and thanks.

You're welcome.

He died well.

As it should be for all of us.

Am I the radical right? Well, I must be. Let's look at my track record so far:

- I asked people to explain why they oppose the U.S. helping to rebuild Lebanon, and why they think the U.S. and Israel are responsible for the war.

- I've criticized you on your lack of religious tolerance. Don't believe me on this one? Take your own posts, and insert the word "Moslem" in the place of Christian, and then see how eager you would be to share them on this web site.

But here's the really funny part. I've posted plenty on this web site in the past and never been noticed or taunted until now. Why? I never disagreed with anything before.

For the record, I'm a center-leaning Democrat. I came around to the Left Coaster again specifically trying to understand why the far left opposes Israel in the current conflict. I'm still waiting for a civil and intelligent answer.

And One More Thought:

Suppose I'm lying, and I really am an undercover right winger. Shouldn't you welcome the chance to blow my wobbly reasoning out of the water? (I would, and do.) Otherwise, what is this website for?

...why the far left opposes Israel in the current conflict.

You mistake opposing the Israeli tactics for opposing Israeli.

A common error.

I second what Snark said. No one here is against Israel, just as no one here is against the US, however, we certainly have the right to criticize actions.

I Get It,

You wrote;

By the way, when an individual judges the majority of a group "insane", the first question that should leap out at us is "are we dealing with a bigot"? The majority of Christians have done nothing to deserve this kind of abuse.

Those two sentences clearly illustrate, to me, that you do not get it.

Get it?

scout, obviously, you're not my ex - despite his faults, he's sane, honorable, and has the humility to realize he doesn't speak for god. You're nothing like that. You're an extremist who's taken the bad things in life and turned them into your own religion of hate, kinda like Fred Phelps. What's really hilarious is seeing you strut your humility, without the slightest bit of irony. Man, you're whacked. Which is why you turn people away from religion. You don't even know that you're the demon you keep saying everyone else is. Funnier than hell!

Almost as funny as this "I get it" character - who doesn't get that this thread is about christian extremists, not Israel. What a dink. I suppose FDL banned you, too, and the extreme left is a bunch of meanies. Blah blah.

"Where's that confounded bridge?"

Shouldn't you welcome the chance to blow my wobbly reasoning out of the water?

Gosh, I'm almost tempted to respond - nahhh.

Rightie or leftie, it don't matter - a dork's a dork.

I get that this thread is about Christians, not Israel. I bring up the topic here again for lack of any better option. When I asked in another thread, all I got back was abuse, and then silence. Why couldn't you have simply made your clarification between tactics and total support then instead?

"You mistake opposing the Israeli tactics for opposing Israeli." Which Israeli tactics do you you oppose, and what do you see as a valid alternative?

Reminder: in the thread that provoked my response, the original author had found that the U.S. effort to give funds to Lebanon was hypocritical, because the U.S. helped to destroy it to began with. So specifically, how do you see this as valid? I countered because Hezbollah started an offensive against Israel, and I support the Israeli counter-offensive.

If this site absolutely forbids off-topic remarks (although it apparently has no problem with personal attacks), then I'm willing to move this conversation to the appropriate place. Where would you suggest?

with the recent death of my little brother. He went to the hospital for heart surgery

Condolences.

I came around to the Left Coaster again specifically trying to understand why the far left opposes Israel in the current conflict.

I oppose their policies, as do over half of all democrats. It may be related to the fact that I don't think of things along the dominionist line. What kind of weird mind supports Israel so that Israel can start a confligration that brings christ back so that christ can send all of the Israelites to hell? That's weird shit!

Where would you suggest?

Apparently your mission is urgent, and must be discussed right. this. very. minute. I suggest you find a Lebanon blogger and have it out with them. I'm sure there are a few discussing your urgent business right now. 'Cos right now you're interrupting some very important abuse of a very nasty troll. Better yet, why don't you and scout discuss your very important business and I'll sign off for now, since I can abuse you both later when you're not looking.

For me, it is not possible to either support or oppose an entire country, such as Israel, Lebanon, or the Palestinian Authority, over the course of its entire history. I'm speaking intead rather specifically of the recent battle between Hezbollah and Israel, in which Lebanon was the unfortunate battle-field.

I believe you when you say that many Democrats, if asked a very vague question such as "which side do you support?" may not side with Israel. But I do not think you would get the same results if they were asked about the recent conflict in Lebanon, which was plainly started by Hezbollah's aggression.

But yes, I do agree with you on one part of this: it would be strange to take sides in any part of the history of the conflict because of some religious prophecy (whatever its source). As I said previously, I support the continued separation of church and state.

phidipides:

I agree with you there. You have to have a pretty empty life if all you can dream about is the end of the world. Not much different than wanting 40 virgins in heaven if you ask me.

Judith:

Please note that I recognize that many Christians recognize evolution, but no fundamentalist will. According to fundamentalist the world is only about 8,000 years old.

Even the catholic church somewhat recognized evolution and embraces the big bang theory. They do not want another Copernicus situation marked up to them.

Scout:

I am sorry to hear about your brother, but I will have to say, if you believe that you are one of the few people thatunderstands the mind of God then you are one weird dude.

Personally, I believe that God would find some hierarchy of humans Man-woman-children just as strange as I do.

cyt, pls.

snrk, gd t s yr lgc gn.

phd, thnks, nd thght yr Nvd pnt n th thr thrd crs.

gt, 'm wth phd n yr qstn. s ll ths prsnt cn ttst, cn rlly drw ths t, bt, n d rspct fr cyt's ht bhvr, 'll kp ths shrt.

Frst, jst s r wn DC nd crp gv’t r bght nd pd fr by thr wsl mny hndlrs, mst f ths r Jws, nd 'm nt syng tht ll Jws r nvlvd, s thy r nt, th srls wsld thr wy bck nt Plstn sng frk pprch; mny prngd nvsn. Frst th Blfr Dclrtn st p th K t spnsr thm nt stlng th Plstnn lnd. Thn th crp lrds nd thr mny hndlrs tk vr vry sngl S md tlt nd bgn t cndtn mrcns nt nw frm f Chrstnty, r frms, tht ll hd n thng n cmmn: srl s th chsn f Gd, nd bgn t ttck tr Chrstnty pn vry lvl, bgnnng bt 100 yrs g. Ths s cmplt fbrctn f th trth f th Bbl.

Ths, nd hr's whr phd's pnt ntrs, th kk nt-Chrst Chrstns, tht pt r crrnt DC nt ffc, nw blv wht th srls hv tght thm t blv: tht Chrst nds hlp t cm bck s w mst gv srl lnd, tht s nt hr’s hv, hlp thm dstry th msq nd hlp thm bld nw tmpl nd hlp thm kll crttrs fr scrfc, nd dn't knw wht th hll ls. ll cmplt nnsns, Bblclly spkng.

Th thr pnt s tht th srl lbby hs kckd ss n vry lvl, bgnnng n DC nd wth thr nt-smntc bllsht/cvr. Thy r my nt b rgnl, bt thy r crtnly pwrfl, nd thy hv trmnds cllctv wlth s th nt-df lg sphns ff whl lt f wlth frm vrydy Jws...bt ths dn't rlly knw wht thy r gvng th mny fr nd why. trly blv tht thy thnk tht thy r dng th rght thng, nd smtms thr s gd, lk ld Jwsh hms, tc.

Th bv s n vr smplfd bstrct f my vw f th prblm wth srl. mn, w th tx pyrs hv nt vtd n gvng ths fls TRLLNS f dllrs. Crp, w hv pr ppl hr tht cld s tht mny fr fr dctn nd hlth cr. bslt crmnl nnsns nd trrbl mscrrg f jstc t spprt srl n ny wy whtsvr.

nd, btw, ’m Bbl thmpr f th frst rdr, jst n cs y’v nt ntcd.

shml, thnks.

W'll hv t dsgr n th Bbl thng, bt 'm sr thr wll b smthng t gr pn n th ftr.

I still don't know what religious affiliation.

sound like jehovah's witness, the "chosen" thing ?? loves his bible tho ....

Jdth, srry, thght yr qstn ws rhtrcl. m nt mmbr f chrch, by chc. Yt, hv n xcs, f y wll llw m t cntn. thnk tht y frgt bt r pst cnvrstn f ths tpc, r myb ’m cnfsng ths wth nthr st, bt nywy ftr bgn t nrvl th Bbl, rnd 1992, r s, thght ndrstd why th chrch xstd. S, wnt t chrch…ftr chrch, ftr chrch, nd s n. mst hv vstd tw dzn chrchs n th Nrth Mntry Cnty r, crss dnmntns, nd nt n knw thng bt th Bbl. Nt n pstr shwd ny sgn whtsvr f hvng vr rd th Bbl.

S, wnt bck nt th Bbl. Thr, spclly n Jrmh, Chrst shws tht th chrch g wll nd drng th grt trbltn. Thr r mny vrss shwng ths prphcy. Bt flt ws n sm shkng grnd n tht ddn’t hv ngh cnfdnc n my crdblty n trms f ndrstndng th Bbl. S, n bt 1999, ht th nt srchng fr cnfrmtn f th bv. Nthng ntl bt 2001. Fmlyrd.cm fnlly lgtmtd my dscvry ndpndntly; fw ppl n th N, h, nd, f rcll, Sn ntn, Txs. Th ns n th N nd h knw smthng f fmly rd, bt th gy n Sn ntn knw nthng f thm. N n knw f myslf.

nywy, th chrch g s vr nd ths s Bblcl. t pprs tht ths tmln wll nd n jst fw shrt yrs.

pn lrnng lttl frm th Bbl, ws frcd t p-nd vrythng lrnd n th sbjcts f sclgy, psychlgy nd nthrplgy. t ll fts vry nc wth th trth f th Bbl, ntrstngly.

Jdth, lt m lv y wth sm thght prvkng scrptr, f y dn’t mnd. t’s qt rnd hr nywy, s, why nt? Rght?

2 Thss 2:3. ‘Lt n mn dcv y by ny mns: fr tht dy shll nt cm, xcpt thr cm fllng wy frst, nd tht mn f sn b rvld, th sn f prdtn; 4. Wh ppsth nd xltth hmslf bv ll tht s clld Gd, r tht s wrshppd; s tht h s Gd sttth n th tmpl f Gd, shwng hmslf tht h s Gd.’

Th bv s spkng f Chrst’s rtrn. nd 'fllng wy' s lvng th trth f th Bbl. Th pctr hr s Stn tkng vr th chrch. thnk t's Rv 18 whr th chrch s pctrd s Bbyln.

Mtt 24:9. ‘Thn shll thy dlvr y p t b fflctd, nd shll kll y: nd y shll b htd f ll ntns fr my nm's sk. 10. nd thn shll mny b ffndd, nd shll btry n nthr, nd shll ht n nthr. 11. nd mny fls prphts shll rs, nd shll dcv mny. 12. nd bcs nqty shll bnd, th lv f mny shll wx cld.’

Th bv s Chrst spkng t th lct; ls, n thnk Mtt 16, Chrst spks f cnnctn wth ‘kllng’ s bng ‘thrwn t f th chrch.’ nyhw, Mtt 24 s ls spkng f th nd tms tht w r crrntly n.

ls, n mr t mk th fnl cnnctn:

Mtt 24:37. ‘Bt s th dys f N wr, s shll ls th cmng f th Sn f mn b. 38. Fr s n th dys tht wr bfr th fld thy wr tng nd drnkng, mrryng nd gvng n mrrg, ntl th dy tht N ntrd nt th rk, 39. nd knw nt ntl th fld cm, nd tk thm ll wy; s shll ls th cmng f th Sn f mn b.’

Th bv s Chrst tllng s tht th ppl lvng n th nd tms wll b jst s thy wr drng th tms f Nh: lvng lf s sl, cmpltly nwr f th cmng nw rlty.

hp th bv hlps. Tk cr. hv sm dd tm, s 'll gt bck hr ltr f y hv ny qstns r cmmnts.

Thanks, Scout, for answering. Unfortunately, I can no more agree with you about some of your assumptions than I could with the right wingers on the other side. But your explanation does seem to clarify why some leftists oppose Israel in this latest conflict.

Also, many interesting thoughts there, Phidipides. I guess it comes down to how you define "fundamentalist". From what I've seen, a minority of fundamentalists believe in evolution, but perhaps by your definition that inherently makes them non-fundamentalists.

ntr, gld t b hlpfl. f crs, dn't tk my wrd fr th hstry lssn, bt d tch hstry nd hv dn th lg wrk. Why nt smply d sm srchng n th nt n sm f my bv pnts? d blv tht y'll b mr thn jst srprsd. ls, srch fr th SS Lbrty, fr strtrs. t wll st 'nc' tn, 'm sr.

Interesting:

Here is the definition of a Christian Fundamentalist by Wikipedia. I believe it is clear from this that Christian Fundamentalist and Evolution are mutual exclusive. In fact according to Wikipedia, Christian Fundamentalism came about specifically to combat the theory of evolution.

Source --Wikipedia

Self-described Christian fundamentalists see their scripture, a combination of the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament, as both infallible and historically accurate. The New Testament represents a new covenant between God and human beings, which is held to fulfill the Old Testament, in regard to God's redemptive plan. On the basis of this confidence in Scripture, many fundamentalist Christians accept the account of scripture as being literally true.

According to Lionel Caplan, a so-called expert on religious fundamentalism,

"In the protestant milieu of the USA, fundamentalism crystallized in response to liberals' eagerness to bring Christianity into the post-Darwinian world by questioning the scientific and historical accuracy of the scripture. Subsequently, the scourge of evolution was linked with socialism, and during the Cold War period, with communism. This unholy trinity came to be regarded as a sinister, atheistic threat to Christian America...Bruce [Chpt. 9 of Caplan 1987] suggests that to understand the success of the Moral Majority, an alliance between the conservative forces of the New Right and the fundamentalist wings on the mainly Southern Baptist Churches, we have to appreciate these fears, as well as the impact of a host of unwelcome changes - in attitudes to 'morality', family, civil and women's rights, and so on - which have, in the wake of economic transformations since the Second World War, penetrated especially the previously insular social and cultural world of the American South." (Caplan 1987: 6)

Sorry that last post was from me.

People who want to share their religious views with you almost never want you to share yours with them.

'specially when they're the prophet, priest and congregation all wrapped up in one big package of hate! Riff raff need not apply.

Please take the time to read the following studies on the Role of Women in the church. This is really what God's heart is. This pastor has it all wrong!

God bless you all!

http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=506