Now Bush can pretend to act tough on North Korea until the election is over and then do nothing. If he had followed Clinton's policy this may have been averted.

Assimilated Press
Read Neocons Prepared For Iraq War By Reading Chicken Entrails

With Truman's OK, on April 5th, 1951, the joint chiefs of staff ordered immediate atomic retaliation against Soviet and Chinese bases in Manchuria if large numbers of new troops entered the Korean War. MacArthur, who had asked for the "D-Day Atomic Capability" was fired to prevent premature atomication. 9 bombs were shipped to Okinawa, ready to go.(Encarta)

Good thing bush and cheney were only powerless little boys at the time, pulling the wings off of flies and exploding frogs.

Unfortunately, our government is not in a position to respond competently to North Korea’s provocation. We expect that Mr. "Axis of Evil," George W. Bush, to come out with sabers drawn, and it will be impossible for us to determine if whatever he says is a reasonable response or yet another political move to divert attention from the plummeting confidence in his Administration. In retrospect, the sudden great urgency to go to war in Iraq is suspect lately for a new reason. Information from a variety of directions suggests a new motive - to divert our attention from the fact that his Administration ignored repeated loud warnings that al Qaeda was about to attack the U.S. prior to 911. It’s easy to speculate that the Iraq War was a fine diversion that they thought would be a walk in the park. It was as they predicted in dealing with Hussein, but there were some other things going on there - big other things, predictable other things.

So, whatever Bush wants to do about North Korea will be wrong - wrong because we’ve effectively taken ourselves off of the world stage as competent by his last six years of inept bravado. Another typical Bush move might be to reappoint Bolton as U.N. Ambassador, another interim, claiming that we need someone in the U.N. to deal with this crisis. That’s true, but it sure ain’t Bolton. Our fate is in the hands of the sensible heads in the U.N. and our own voters in November.

Is the world awake?
Is our Congress awake?
Is America awake?

We’ll see…

P.S. Thanks for the changes...

I just love the fact Kim Jong Il tested a nuke on Little Boots' watch.

Priceless! Add this to the ever growing list of domestic and foreign policy failures called the George "AWOL" Bush years.

I just find it almost incomprehensible that Bush has accomplished all this in six short years. Obviously the world doesn't look at us with the same eyes as they did before 2000.

Judith,

Just think:

Little Boots blew through a $160 billion dollar surplus and created a deficit in a mere 6 months in office.

Just as he did as govenor of Texas.

He's one, talented guy -- NOT!

Even the British have caught the Friedman bug:

By FISNIK ABRASHI

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) - NATO's top commander in Afghanistan warned on Sunday that a majority of Afghans would likely switch their allegiance to resurgent Taliban militants if their lives show no visible improvements in the next six months.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dubya is going to have to nuke somebody in the next 6 months just to keep his nose above water. If you're going to be a genocidal sociopath you might as well hit one out of the park.

The unitary executive continues to be an unqualified failure.

If I were Bush right now, I would be lying awake every night thinking about the myriad ways N Korea will be promoting its technology to both Pakistan and Iran. They have demonstrated their ability. Pakistan is alleged to have received much help from them already in their nuclear work.

The Pakistani government has laready played us for fools and will continue. Can Afghanistan be far behind? And what will the Saudi Royal House really do in a situation like this? They will also play both sides fo the fence.

Oil at $60/barrel this morning by the way.

Baby Bush needs to be thrown out with the bath. He's dirty and so is the water. Way to go NeoCons!

How much of a consortium among these nations does it take to make a missle that carry Korean payload a threatening distance?

Well, about the only saving grace out of this mess is that China is no more thrilled about it than we are.

Cheney's co-president, Henry Kissinger, will have it all worked out by 5pm this afternoon.

Steve,
As a long-time reader and rare commenter, I am glad that you have made some difficult but necessary changes. Good to have you 'back in the saddle'!
Terry

Something else I have been wondering about. If Mark Foley is going to be the poster boy for corruption next to Denny Hastert, do you think Republicans are spending anytime behind the scenes coaching or coaxing Mr. Foley on how to face the charges that may befall him? All evidence suggests the pages will lined up like a firing squad to give testimony. Mr. Foley is desperate man and will say (as he has already) desperate things. But how will they be inflected?
As long as Republicans succeed in hiding what they know (and let's assume they obfuscate long enough to make it till Foley begins to talk), they will be trying to control what Foley says.
I do not think lining up behind Hastert was confusion---it was deliberate, and I do not see how Foley himself can be left out of the picture.

Honestly, I don't see how anyone can blame a regime like that in North Korea for pursuing nuclear weapons in light of our 60 year history of playing nuclear politics.

Steve, how can you condemn North Korea when we have ignored the defiance of Israel on the the issue of nuclear weapons and most recently rewarded the nuclear defiance of the Indians in a way that will allow them to dedicate more of their own domestic resources to the production of nuclear weapons while we help them with technology to produce nuclear power? And the example of Iraq is a clear justification, in North Korean eyes, for their decision made decades ago to continue in pursuit of a 'nuclear deterent'. Why would they stop after our invasion of Iraq? Please don't take this as siding with NK. But no one can expect any regime, as bizarre and unstable as it may be, NOT to take whatever steps they feel are necessary to preserve themselves in power. This is a scenerio that was rendered inevitable when the nuclear genie was let out of the bottle. Were it not North Korea it would have been some other nation. There are now eight nations in the nuclear club. It was only a matter of time before one (really two) that are incredibly unstable joined the group. North Korea will not be the last either.

And the Bush administration's policy of saying it's just gonna take its' ball and go home is revealed as an abject failure. Stubborn willful idiocy. There will be no solution to the problem of nuclear proliferation that is not a truly global one. I'm not talking about 'six party talks'. That's a crock. It's gonna take a leading commitment from the United States to truly organize a worldwide commitment to the elimination of nuclear weapons. Lord knows the Bush administration isn't going to lead such a movement.

And BTW,

Today is the 1300th day of George Bush's war of choice in Iraq.

Well, I am sure Bush and the GOP are happy that they no longer have the headlines. They needed a diversion, and they got it. Let's see how much longer Foley is an issure.

Foley is an "issue."

"It's gonna take a leading commitment from the United States to truly organize a worldwide commitment to the elimination of nuclear weapons. Lord knows the Bush administration isn't going to lead such a movement."

Snark, hell no, especially when you have appointed yourself as the facilitator of Armageddon. I wonder if Bush still hears voices?

I have a question. How f*cking long is Saddam's trial going to take? One would think he would have been sentenced a long time ago. Is it advantageous to keep it going and going and going?

Two more interesting tidbits on the Foley scandal:

WaPo is reporting that Rep Kolbe knew about Foley's interest in the pages back in 2000:

Lawmaker Saw Foley Messages In 2000

Kolbe once invited four former pages to make use of his Washington home while he was out of town, according to an instant message between Foley and another former page, Jordan Edmund, in January 2002.

Ick.

And according to the NYTimes, some of the fundies still aren't getting it, prefering to blame tolerance of homosexuality (and the Dems) for Foley being a predator:

Evangelicals Blame Foley, Not Republican Party

The Democratic Party is “the party that is tolerant of, maybe more so than Republicans, that lifestyle,” Mr. Gwaltney said, referring to homosexuality.

*Sigh*

W d w Dms dbt f grttd fr vrtlly grntng tht fr th nr ftr n clstd hmsxl wll sccd n bcmng vbl GP cnddt.

We do owe Dems a debt of gratitude for virtually guaranteeing that for the near future no closeted homosexual will succeed in becoming a viable GOP candidate.

Now, what about the pedophiles in your ranks?

I predict Foley will make a primetime appearance with Dianne Sawyer a few days before the election for a national mea culpa.

I think one of the many things I find disconcerting about the Iraq Civil War and worsening situation is how repuglican politicians are attempting to use the failed policy and current horrible situation in their campaingns this fall. I heard Jim Talent on MTP yesterday say the recent NIE assessment supports us staying to finish the job in IRaq...he says we have to support the mission and the mission isn't done. He says if we can't leave now because the situation is so bad...and leaving now would only make things worse.

Of course he fails to mention that the reason it is so bad is because of our incompetent leaders who lied to us to get into it in the first place and continue to lie to us now, had no plan or strategy and/or ignored experts advice for dealing with the situation. Yes he failed to mention why should we trust the leaders that lead us into this failed and miserably dangerous situation to get us out of it now. Yes he believes, we should let the same leadership that lied to us in order to drive us over the cliff into the canyon to now to get us out of it. Arrrrrghhhh!

Steve-sorry to hear about your brother, hope he sees a swift recovery.

The leader of the 33% is getting ready, right now at 8:45, to speak.

Hoist by his own reckless, foolish, childish, moronic "Axis of Evil" petard.....far and away the greatest failed president in history, with years remaining in his calamitous term, and many more failures and nuclear strikes to rack up before he "goes".

What a complete surprise! No one could have possibly envisioned that after one "Axi of Evil" was invaded and "occupied", another (Iran) began ramping up what had been a back-burner enrichment program, while the remaining "hyper-evil" member of this imaginary rhetorical "Axis" called the bluff of the Prince of Clowns and his puppetmaster VP and completeted their long-fiddled with nuclear bomb.

A new strategic world order has emerged through the simpleminded ideological nonsense of the neo-con philosophizers and the juvenile tough talk of Commander Codpiece, Deadeye Dick and von Rumsfeld. I'm sure they're really ready to "manage" it.

This nuclear development was mainfestly preventable by diplomacy and negotiated cessation of hostilities (after 50 years!) against this tiny, insolated, dirt-poor failed communist regime, and instead Bush and his neo-clown team have transformed them into a new nuclear headache.

For idiocy and incompetence on a simply unparalleled scale, one can only say "Bravo"! And on to the concluding Act V! There simply is no way to know precisely how this grand farcical-tragedy will end!

This is why monarchies so feared the "weak-minded" son of the king. One cannot have a mildly retarded, essentially uneducated US president. Too bad so many American "voters" didn't understand that simple fact.

Thanks George. You didn't want to talk to Korea, so this is what we get. Clinton could have told you, but you didn't want to listen, because after all, your The King.

Bush: "the reaction will be "swift and immediate." What the hell does that mean?

"U-Nighted Shates."

"Noo-ko-lawr."

"Innerushts."

Perhaps, Bendito can translate???

Bush: "the reaction will be "swift and immediate." What the hell does that mean?

Bombs? Just guessing. 'Cause that's about the only thing swift and immediate in the Bush White House.

“Honestly, I don't see how anyone can blame a regime like that in North Korea for pursuing nuclear weapons in light of our 60 year history of playing nuclear politics.”

Snark, you are right on. I don’t understand how is one paragraph N Korea is absolved from pursuing their nuclear capabilities and then called an unstable regime with a nut case in charge. There is no logic in that type of thinking.
It’s all about we got ours and we don’t want you to get yours…period. Hmmm, who are the world’s largest arms dealer?

Bush: "the reaction will be "swift and immediate." What the hell does that mean?

What it means is that the reaction will be swift and immediate. He decidereded it already. See below:

We do owe Dems a debt of gratitude for virtually guaranteeing that for the near future no closeted homosexual will succeed in becoming a viable GOP candidate.

You see, Judith? That was a swift and immediate reaction. And so many people say Bush and his followers are all a pack of cretins. I guess this just 'shows' all of us naysayers who nitpick about things like diplomacy and competence and the like. That, and nuking Iran. That'll show that damn Kim Il Jong and prove, yes, prove to us all, that the Mad King, idiot son of George, is the leader of the semi-free world...and can get an erection, too!

Thanks, neo-con tards! Your silence on North Korea is deafening. You had no plan, have no plan, and can't formulate a plan. The parallels between your form of fascism and the Nazis are many, except for the one where Nazis were at least competent at some things. You ass-clowns have shown nothing but the most egregious incompetence for the last 12 years you've had congress, and the six you've had the presidency. All of this crap is your fault. Blame it on Clinton's blowjob all you want. In the end, the blame is at your door. You've had the whole game for six years and you can't play any of it properly. As the incomparable Bugs Bunny would say, "What a pack of maroons!"

Bush: "the reaction will be "swift and immediate."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Little Boots has spent the past 5 years obsessed with Iraq, consumed with gittin' the guy who tried to hurt mah daddy.

Now, a geniune noo-ko-lawr genie has been released in Asia and guess what? Bush has only 2 years left on the clock so he can turn the mess over to the next president.

I hope Hillary is up to the challenge.

With our forces otherwise engaged...with our equipment in the shop waiting for parts I wouldn't be surprised if the "swift & immediate" part got assigned to Japan. Since EmptyWheel is stuck in the airport in Japan I'm hoping the immediate part can wait until she's clear.

A Republican congressman knew of disgraced former representative Mark Foley's inappropriate Internet exchanges as far back as 2000 and personally confronted Foley about his communications.

GOP REP KOLBE SAW FOLEY MESSAGES 6 YEARS AGO...

A spokeswoman for Rep. Jim Kolbe (R-Ariz.) confirmed yesterday that a former page showed the congressman Internet messages that had made the youth feel uncomfortable with the direction Foley (R-Fla.) was taking their e-mail relationship. Last week, when the Foley matter erupted, a Kolbe staff member suggested to the former page that he take the matter to the clerk of the House, Karen Haas, said Kolbe's press secretary, Korenna Cline.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/08/AR2006100800855.html

I hear North Korea has conducted a nuclear test and I expected to see some backbone and concern. Instead I visit my favorite sites and see celebration that it happened on Bush's watch and that Clinton held North Korea off and Bush has dropped the ball.

I am totally disgusted at my party for trying to seek political gain from this tragic event. So disgusted that I am going to leave my long relationship with the Democrat party and go to NO PARTY. No political party represents what I believe anymore.

The Democrats and Republicans are just political hacks who seek political gain from tragic events. I thought the Democrats were above this and put country and individuals first. Wrong! My party has politicized this! Horrible. I'm gone. I don't think I can even vote for any Democrats next month. I think I'll just leave those races blank on the ballot and vote for the local issues.

Alec Baldwin: “You Can Lie To The American People…But You Diddle One Page…And It’s Over”…

Marwick411, and that will lead us into 8 more years of GOP destruction.

I agree, but as someone pointed out to me (I think it was Ann or Anjha), win back our Government, and then start weeding out those who need to be weeded out. We know we are headed towards Fascism, but 8 more years of the GOP will seal the deal.

Note the "concern troll" post above Judith's at 7:57 ...wtf, you really think people here living in the sane side of the blogosphere are celebrating this action by NK because it happened on Bush's watch? Nice strawman, a pure Rovian and Bushco gift I might add..there is not a chance that anyone who posts here regularly is "celebrating" this latest failure and fiasco, not an effing chance.

I thought the Democrats were above this and put country and individuals first.

Funny thing is, taking the moral high road doesn't win elections. Kerry took the high road when the Reps smeared his noble service to this country and he lost the election.

I agree with your sentiments to an extent, Steve. In a better world, I would disagree, I would say the president needs to engage the North Koreans, even in bilateral talks. I never understood the neo-con aversion to them, except that multi-party talks was a different and now ineffective "policy" than what Clinton did. However, I don't trust the Bushies and the DPRK to do anything but make a bigger mess, which no one needs. I think some benign neglect of the current situation might be the best course here. Restate the commitments to deterrence, make it explicit that the U.S. nuclear umbrella protects Japan and South Korea (if they want it) as well as our own shores, and move on. Sanctions? Why bother? They'll be ineffective and maybe even provocative. And I wouldn't rule out sending food aid to North Korea, either. Letting the North Koreans starve may sound good in the heat of the moment, but in practice, it's a terrible idea. There's no reason to let people starve. Moreover, nuclear blackmail for food was a precedent set in Soviet-U.S. relations -- remember the grain exports to the USSR? -- and I see no good reason why we should not continue that sort of policy for North Korea. Avoiding death is the idea here, not encouraging more death.

These f*ckers are really that stupid. Sure Dobson, that's why Foley resigned. It was just a joke. Now you know how the religious right-wackos are going to respond. I got news for you Dobson, you and your followers are the joke.

James Dobson and Daniel Henninger both echoed a claim previously made by Matt Drudge and Michael Savage that the sexually explicit communications that Rep. Mark Foley allegedly engaged in with former congressional pages were "sort of a joke" or a "prank[]" on the part of the former pages.
Commenting on the congressional page scandal surrounding former Rep. Mark Foley (R-FL) on the October 6 broadcast of Focus on the Family, James Dobson declared that the Foley affair has "turned out to be what some people are now saying was a sort of a joke by the boy and some of the other pages" who had reportedly come forward with sexually explicit instant messages that Foley allegedly sent.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200610060004

Hey, I'm in the direct line of fire in the PacNW, someone better do something.

God, the absolute phoniness of the scripts used by these "I-was-a-Democrat" concern trolls is laugh-out-loud funny.

An RNC cubicle-boy, munching his chocolate Krispy-Kreme and posting "fake Democrat" messages on progressive blogs. Pathetic.

"What did you do in the War on Terra, Daddy?"

"I carried the bloody water for Coach KKKarl Rover and the National Cronyist Party, son."

euzoius, the thing is, the concern trolls always think they're the first ones to pretend to be a dem who's going to the other side. Sad idiots.

One would think by now I would recognize a troll. Oh well.

Iamcoyote: always room here! Anyone noticed how the MSM is doing it's level best to square up the thinking process that, Don't worry, be happy, they are a good 6 years away from being able to send anything our way. Imagine what would happen if another axis or their new friend decided to help out N Korea (in exchange for paying the NK heating bill this winter) by providing the transportation and/or the missing parts. And this is what can happen when we go down the road of the enemy of my enemy is my friend. We may be about to find out.

So disgusted that I am going to leave my long relationship with the Democrat party and go to NO PARTY.

This should have been the clincher, Judith. No one who is actually a Democrat refers to it as the "Democrat party."

Exactly mainsailset....funny how when that Paper Tiger Saddam Hussein was the threat,one of the talking points of the many hundreds used was that we can't afford to even wait because he is a madman and might smuggle/give technology and/or nukyular material to the wrong people like those terrarists he loves to coddle and hang out with now.

Hypocrisy knows no bounds here does it.

Korea lost 4 million people in the Korean war, they don't want to start another one. They saw what happened to Sadaam, who had no bomb and don't want to make the same mistake.

Crazy Leader Contest:
A. Someone who is pig-headed to a fault, does not listen to other points of view, and has a world-class porn collection.
B. Someone who is pig-headed to a fault, does not listen to other points of view, and hears and obeys marching orders from God.

So disgusted that I am going to leave my long relationship with the Democrat party and go to NO PARTY.

I speak neo-con and will gladly translate:

"I support a party of incompetent republi-con pervs, and no matter how badly we fuck-up, it's never our fault!"

And the Mad King, idiot son of George, gives N. Korea what for:

The United States will seek U.N. sanctions to curb North Korea’s import and export of material for weapons of mass destruction, as well as its illicit financial activities,

Uhhhhhhhh...well, that was certainly a stunning response. A lot like that Kennedy "Ask not..." in it's eloquence.

Let me see. We sanctioned them so completely on everything else that Bushco starved a few million of their population to death. We gave them no carrot we can withdraw, and all we have left is a big stick...that's frayed and distracted from whacking it over in the Middle East. So what does the Mad King, idiot son of George, do? Why, the U.N needs to deal with this.

Ooh hoo! Neo-con moe-rons. Aren't you guys completely against the U.N.? Just asking. Just wondering, since that fool you follow so closely... so closely that if he stopped walking we would have to pry your heads out of his ass with a crowbar...seems to be relying on -NEEDS...MUST HAVE...CAN'T DO WITHOUT- the U.N. Aren't you the idiots who call for it's dissolution? Me thinks you are!

Hmmm. I have analyzed this response from the Mad King. On this one, as well as many others, the neo-cons and republi-cons resemble one of those litte organ grinder monkeys trying fuck a football. A promise of great activity, but nothing ever comes from it.

marwick411, That was te best post I've seen in here in 3 years.

Judith, It is becuase of people like you on both sides of the political spectrum, that real change will never occur in this country.

...that real change will never occur in this country.

You mean like Clinton when Clinton in 94 had a multi-part diplomatic solution that would help the N. Koreans with fuel and power producing reactors that couldn't be used for nuclear bombs that Bush then called appeasement and went about destroying? You mean the "big stick" policy of Bush? Or when we were invading Iraq and N. Korea called the Bush bluff and Bush folded his hand? Do you mean Bush talking a good high-school boy bluff game but never doing anything...you know, incompetence? Exactly what the fuck do you mean?

I speak neo-con and will gladly translate:

"I support a party of incompetent republi-con pervs, and no matter how badly we fuck-up, it's never our fault!"

Posted by phidipides at October 9, 2006 09:20 AM
==

phid you are one funny soul. Thanks for the laugh of the day!
==

Steve, nice to have you back--glad your brother is doing well.
==

Agree with many--since being labeled any portion of the "Axis of Evil" seems to be rather nasty for one's health, it shouldn't surprise anyone to see those so branded trying to grab the only known antidote that there is. Poor, poor Terra...

PAZ

I simply do not and cannot agree with the statement "but at this point the North Koreans can talk to a wall from now on as far as I am concerned." The North Koreans have always been exceedingly difficult to negotiate with, but why should North Korea trust the US? I mean, why, just because we violated the terms of the armistace that ended the Korean War by placing nuclear weapons on the Peninsula? Why should that bother them? Those weapons, removed only under Bush I, were replaced by a documented, planned and trained policy of using nuclear weapons if war broke out again. (Bruce Cumings: "Korea's Place In The Sun", from information in the Eisenhower Library). Why wouldn't the Koreans insist on sitting down with the US and why shouldn't N. Korea develop a nuclear armament if the United States and other nation have one. If the US intended to be anything except what it is, it would sit down with North Korea and start off by agreeing to dispose of some of its own nuclear weapons. Hell, we have enough of the damned things to destroy the world a few times over, don't we? Also, at the very least, we should provide all the food and fuel that we possibly can. Attacking the people with sanctions didn't work in Iraq. It didn't work in Cuba and it won't work in North Korea.
JGug

What I ment by my statement before all the moron's jumped in and tried to tell me what I think, is simply that there is very little difference between either of the 2 major parties. I for one commend the individual that comes out and say's I'm sick of everyhting getting turned into an opportunity for the other party to gain. Rather what is needed is new opposition to the status quo. New parties that are interested in the betterment of the United States, and of the world. Rather what we have are 30 million voters that run around and vote for a D or R. This is wrong, judge each person by his/her actions, judge each policy on its merit, not by the party that the person belongs to.
I for one registered as a Republican at the age of 18, becuase that is what my parents were. By the age of 20 I was voting Democrat, because that is what I thought I wanted. Now at the age of 28, I vote on each individual based on their beliefs and actions. Since I've done that, I have voted for 1 Republican (Voinovich), 1 Democrat (Brown), and I believe the rest have been either Libertarian or some other 3rd party. I refuse to listen to the people telling me that all i'm doing is throwing votes away...I'm voting for real change everytime I go to the polls. When you vote D, just because they oppose the R's, you are voting for the same thing, one just usually has more smoke and more mirrors.

That is what the Fuck I meant.

Attacking the people with sanctions didn't work in Iraq. It didn't work in Cuba and it won't work in North Korea.
JGug

Well, the Bush-tard, in all of his inscutable wisdomly deciderlyness, gave N. Korea $94 million dollars and removed the stipulation that inspectors had to ensure that N. Korea wasn't enriching uranium to get the money. Now that was very wise in a Bush-wisdom way...and it removed a sanction Clinton imposed because...well, because...well, Bush ain't clinton...and Clinton got a blowjob.

Daily Iraq war casualties are now starting to approach Vietnam War rates and the whole "moving sideways" commentary makes those of us old enough to remember think very much of Vietnam. If the Foley scandal is what finally brings a wind of change in Washington, I am less inclined to look for the hand of Nancy Pelosi in bringing down the Republican control of Congress than the hand of God. Michael Baron's analysis for "U.S. News and World Report" of a Democratic Party take over of the House is music to the ears of every moderate who has been chafing under the hard right control of the Republicans. A narrowly held Democratic Majority will NOT turn the nation sharply left as Republicans warn, according to Barone, but more toward the center where we have not been in a long time. The whole magic of the Clinton years as well as the best of the Reagan years was a very "Centerist" America and that is where we need to be once again.

"Evil" never causes "Good" to happen but "Good" often comes out of the ashes of "Evil," rising like the mythical Phoenix. The Foley story is a tragedy but if from it comes a return to Centerist values and policies in America, then we will all have much to thank God for this Thanksgiving Day.

That is what the Fuck I meant.

Then why didn't you say that in the first place and leave your assult on Judith and what she said to the neo-con troll-bot out of it? Seems an easy enough thing to do, and it keeps us from playing the Amazing Carnac.

"Why should I care about North Korea?" - George Bush, from State of Denial

Gee, maybe because there are 38,000 U.S. troops stationed at the border between the two Koreas?

Even more remarkable, Kim Jong Il's nuke program was under control of the international community when President Clinton was in office.

Any Bush loyalists care to take me on???

Unfortunantly I believed you'd be intelligent enough to figure it out...I guess I was wrong, and apologize for that. I too will continue to write everything in a manner where I'm taking a shot at everything, this way you will have a better understanding of what I mean.

Example:
Democrat$ = Bad
Republican$ = Bad
Third Party = Good

For those not able to get a handle on my onscreen handle, there is this:

NORthern CALifornia Republican In Name Only

Third Party = Good

Third Party = Lieberman = Good Correct?

Crazy Leader Contest:

Bush in world History at Yale, trying for an answer:

Thinks to self: "This is hard, real hard. Dang I'm hung over. I wish Victor (Victor Ashe, his gay roommate at Yale) would move his hand so I could see what he got. Man, he's got purty lips. Cr...cr... cruh...ray ..z...z... uh l...l...l..luh ee...luh eee duh...duh...duh.... Dern this is hard! C..r..uh...NO...ray...cruh-ray-zee...ledur. Cruhrazy letter. Dang, I didn't know this was english. Uh....C, none of the above. Heh, heh! I need a beer."

Sorry savage4president, but since so many trolls like to jump in and mess up things by using every subterfuge known (including first trying to appear to be liberals) to, then, spew their vile, I can understand why your comments (specially attacking Judith) took such rap. So, again sorry from this one moron.

But, regardless, I still think that phidipides retort was funny.

PAZ

Bush-bashing is a fairly immature and very unproductive effort. Will History be kind to Bush? No, but it will not be entirely unkind, either. He is still a guy you might want to share a beer with in bar, more so than either Kerry or Gore. Has he been a great leader in the War on Terror? "Nope" on that one until you consider his two opponents for the presidency. He's still the pick of the litter, even if it was not a good litter to begin with. The electorate did not get it wrong; they just did not have much to pick from. "None of the above" or "Mickey Mouse for President" would have been a better choice. To quote Burt Reynold's in the old movie "Switching Channel's, Bush "ain't much but (he's) all we got."

If the Dems take the House, Bush certainly deserves Censure or even Impeachment for his mishandling of the War on Terror, but not removal from office. Even I cannot imagine the horror of having Dick Cheney replacing him.

Thanks for your comments, JamesG.

Kim Jong Il's government essentially took the only path open to it to ensure its survival in the face of the foolish, unnecessary bellicosity of Cheney's adminstration---this is rational behavior on NK's part, not insane behavior.

And it was all perfectly predictible, especially given the mystifying limitation that "we" would not have direct talks. But we'll see what "Nuclear Dick" orders in response.

Christopher, there seem to be precious few Bush "loyalists" hanging around here anymore. Bagley seems to be one of the last of his sorry kind.

Progressives who petulantly vote against the Dems in '06 may find that there isn't going to be much left of the constitutional republic set up in 1789.

Just one more Justice "Scalito" will create a rock-solid, five justice radical-right wing "conservative" majority on the Supreme Court, and that'll be the end of the constitutional ball game as we have experienced it over the past 100 years.

And they'll be there for another 25 years.

NorCalRINO,

Share a beer with a sociopath? Because that truly is what he is. A bully, but really, a scared little boy who can't get ANYTHING right.

He screwed everything but the tax cuts for the rich, and that's because somebody else did that for him, i.e. GOP Dictated Congress.

And you think Bush was a better choice than Al Gore or John Kerry?

Impeachment of Bush and Cheney is the only way to start to fix the damage those two delusional cowards have done to this country. Bush virtually gave NK the bomb, by his stupidity in naming them Axis partners, refusing to adhere to the "agreed upon framework," his coddling his best buddy in Pakistan, Where's Osama Musharev, and AQ Kahn, his humiliation at the hands of CHina, his stupid and delusional invasion of Iraq, all of it told the paranoid Kim that the Bomb was the way to go. And you think that record is better then what Al Gore would have done as President, who had been instrumental in helping Bill Clinton do so much on the world stage?

Yeah, go have a beer with the guy, I wouldn't trust myself.

He is still a guy you might want to share a beer with in bar, more so than either Kerry or Gore. Has he been a great leader in the War on Terror? "Nope" on that one until you consider his two opponents for the presidency.

You are absolutely out of your fucking mind. Quit being an appeaser for the incompetent fuck-tard.

but not removal from office. Even I cannot imagine the horror of having Dick Cheney replacing him.

Bush goes down, Cheney goes down --who happens to be the acting president anyway-- and then the Speaker becomes president...a democratic speaker. Just...quite just.

He is still a guy you might want to share a beer with in bar, more so than either Kerry or Gore.

What stupid son-of-a-bitch.

That's all you expect from your president is a decent companion to throw back a brewski? A ne're do well, who at 60, is still hungering for his daddy's approval, who needlessly sent more than 2,700 Americans to their deaths in Iraq, and has Jeff Gannon's balls on his chin?

NorCalRINO is just another Bush lemming who checked his brain at the door the moment he received his membership card in the Cult of Bush.

In 2004, the American people were presented with the choice between a plain turkey sandwich on day old bread, not fabulous, but actual food, or a vile pig-shit sandwich.

History records a slight majority of idiot Americans went for the shit, proving the failure of our democracy.

Anyone still defending their asinine vote for Bush is no RINO.

Rino----sure, nothing better than to sit at a bar next to a loudmouth rich kid egomaniac who has to be right about any and everything he says and who has to come up with an off-color, belittling nickname for you and yell it out to everyone else in the place- over and over. Sounds like a fun evening....enjoy!

He is still a guy you might want to share a beer with in bar, more so than either Kerry or Gore.

Frankly, I'd prefer a glass of wine with Kerry or Gore any day. I like intelligent conversation when I'm in a bar, not frat boy, keg party antics.

You ass-clowns have shown nothing but the most egregious incompetence for the last 12 years you've had congress, and the six you've had the presidency.

P-dip - don't let them fool you. Their "incompetence" is absolutely planned.

They need to prove to the people that this (our) form of government does not work.

They will wave pics in front of everyone of Katrina, Iraq, N Korea even 9-11 (remember the fuck ups of missing 9-11 were blamed on the restrictions of our own Constitution, our own laws - that is why it has had to be abolished. No habeas, indefinate detention, no fourth amendment - all those things just make it difficult to protect us all.)

Their incompetence is intentional.

Now, most of government needs to be privatized and the rest needs to be changed. Representative Democracy does not work. Constitutional Republic does not work.

They will be waving their own incompetence in front of the sheeple as proof for the necessity of a dictatorship. They won't call it that....Unitary Executive works. They have already been doing this.

America, Freedom, Democracy, Peace, the Ability to make choices in one's own life -

they are all teetering on a cliff and it will take little to push us right over the edge.

How much ya wanna bet they will wave this N. Korea crap in front of us as proof that the Congress making decisions about when to engage in war and stuff is just not agile enough or efficient enough for a post 9/11 world?

Give the Preznit all the power.

Rummy said all of this himself.

Sorry to blogwhore - it was just easier than retyping it all.

Why can’t the Democrats get it right and run with the golden opportunities they are given? Nancy Pelosi is denouncing the North Koreans, when she should be denouncing Bush.
If my memory serves, in 1994 Bill Clinton negotiated an agreement with North Korea whereby, in exchange for giving up their enrichment program, the USA in partnership with South Korea and Japan would build them some number of reactors. SK and Japan would actually supply the reactors, with the USA footing most of the bill. Our Republican Congress never authorized the needed funds, and then distracted Pres. Clinton with the Lewinsky nonsense such that we hadn’t fulfilled our end of the bargain by 2000. However up to that time the North Koreans had upheld their end of the agreement, and done no enrichment.
Then Bush made his idiotic “axis of evil” speech and invaded Iraq, leaving North Korea no obvious alternative but to try to build their own bomb out of self-protection. Republican intransigence and belligerence in place of diplomacy has now landed us in another mess where the world has become much more dangerous.
Let’s make it clear to voters who really has the best approach to national security. Bush and Co. have surely jeopardized our security too much and for too long. Unless I am mistaken the Democrats have never had a better issue to run with.
I am requesting the help of all bloggers to get this message to the powers that be in the party .

Will History be kind to Bush? No, but it will not be entirely unkind, either.

WTF?!

Only when it is all complete and history is absolutely rewritten, and everything else goes down the shoot for burning, will anything look kindly on this monster.

He is a sociopath.

Pure and simple.

Worst.President.Ever

Bush certainly deserves Censure or even Impeachment for his mishandling of the War on Terror, but not removal from office.

Not only does he need to be removed from office, he needs to sit in a cold, damp cell for the rest of his life viewing movies of all that he destroyed. His entire Administration deserves the same. Don't worry about Cheney being instated, they all need to go to jail as the war criminals that they are.

Impeachment and rotting in prison will be the only thing that will begin to restore this Country's credibility and moral standing in the eyes of the rest of the world. It is the only thing that will allow this Country to begin healing from the complete rape of our Constitution and our values.

Prison is not good enough for his crew.

The having a beer with remark always reminds me of a kid I ran into who said he voted for GW because they shared the same disgust of abortion. As NK demonstrated today, we do not live in a single dimensional world, if for some reason I find myself in the room with the president I want to be literally awed by his superior intelligence not by how many beers he can chug before he drives home...for that reason alone, the sheer intelligence and depth, I would have gladly seen Gore win in 2000.

Then Bush made his idiotic “axis of evil” speech

And two weeks later gave them (N. Korea) $94 million dollars without strings attached to it. You should discuss that while you're at the bar, NorCalRINO.

NoCalRINO, (um we folk here on the left side of the blogosphere are pretty savy with acronyms and such ). I appreciate your candor but I am gonna pile on here just because....after 6 miserable years I can't believe what I am reading.

He's still the pick of the litter, even if it was not a good litter to begin with. The electorate did not get it wrong; they just did not have much to pick from.

So that's how Bush voters justify their votes...something here about the the Soft Bigotry of Low expectations crowd.

So You mean even though he lost the actual popular vote to Al Gore (another issue and not one I am here to discuss)after the first 4 years of this Bush's miserable failure of a presidency, you still believe he was a better choice than Kerry...WTF????... Don't get me wrong Kerry wasn't awesome but at the bare minimum he could at least speak in complete sentences, but noooo that wasn't good enough for you, you need to be able to drink beer with with the guy. Yup makes sense.

Lastly you claim, Gawd forbid we lose Bush because that would leave Cheney in charge....Umm, quibble here, please don't tell me you really still believe that your pal Bubble Boy, (the guy you'd like to have a brewski with so that is why you voted for him), has been running the show and calling most of the shots here. Billmon doesn't call it the Cheney Administration for nothing.

We are a tough but politically educated crowd here...(even though my own typing and editing skills suck). I appreciate your candor, but it doesn't mean I excuse the reasons you gave for your support for the Worst. Administration. Ever.

IF and it is still only an If the Dems take over the House, they will very narrowly have the votes to either censure or impeach the President. And just as in the Clinton impeachment, there will NOT be sufficient votes in the Senate to convict and thereby remove the president. It takes only a simple majority to impeach but something like 60 percent or even 75 supermajority in the Senate to remove a president. It just won't happen.

Nor will Bush or Cheney do any prison time, since they will never be convicted of any crimes. You are just indulging in more lefty wingnut froth and lather to think otherwise.

I am a centerist and make no apologies. Bush is not a traitor or some horrible war criminal. He is just wrong. He and his cronies had a rosy view of America avenging itself of the ills done to us on 9/11 and showing the world what we could do all on our own (or with a little help from a few close friends). Their world view was as wrong as that of Christopher Columbus.

Contrary to the common misperception, Columbus did not set out to prove that the world was round or spherical but rather to prove that it was about 16,000 miles around at the equator instead of 25,000. He was wrong and the whole round earth verus flat earth thing was tossed in after the fact to make it look like he knew what he was doing instead getting lucky in finding America.

Bush will be remembered as the 9/11 president on the kindly side and as the idiot who did not understand what he was getting into in Iraq on the less than kind side. He will not be branded a traitor for several reasons, not the least of which is that our own mythos of America will not permit us to so label one of our presidents.

Several of our past presidents were in fact scoundrels but we do not remember them that way as a nation because they were OUR scoundrels. Rant all you like, but in the end, it will make no difference at all. Bush will be remembered as a nice guy to share a beer with but not all that good of a guy to have at your back in a showdown.

you lefties do serve your purpose, however, even if only as cheerleaders for the other side. All Bush has to do to look reasonable is point at you folks foaming at the mouth over him. That alone raises public perception of his IQ and fitness to lead without his actually having to do anything. History will be a lot less kind to you for being the folks that kept the hard right in power with all your lunatic ranting and raving about stupid conspiracy crap instead of using good logic on the wrongness of most of the Right's positions.

I'm impressed.

NorCalRINO managed to hammer out seven paragraphs and still said absolutely nothing!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I am equally impressed, Christopher. You can read and yet have no idea what you are reading. Perhaps you should run for an elected office.

Nice of the rino to try to lecture us on the knowable, not the unknowable, is it not?

Especially that last bit, giving us some friendly advice, always good for a laugh. And nobody has mentioned any conspiracy crap here at all, so I think you're misinterpreting things.

You should take your own advice, NCR, and really examine what we've been logically, rantingly, foamingly, however we can, talking about for the last six years. Read the archives here, because you're starting to sound a bit like a troll there, and we wouldn't want to judge you falsely. Unlike Muckdoggy. Hahahahahahahahaha.

I find that sharing beers with recovering drunks—and especially recovering drunks who refuse to admit that's what they are—is a serious fucking downer. Add to that the fact that this particular guy is a world-class dickhead, and I think I'd rather just sit down with a six-pack and throw beers at the TV.

Thanks for the props, NorCalRINO. But the real question is, would you want to have a beer with me?

Duckman,

I'd rather not be judged at all, but short of that, just try to get it right. Political moderates are like bisexuals in some ways, except that it's our political gate that swings both ways, not that such a comparison would play well in the rust belt. It's sort of like the whole "Brokeback Mountain" movie. Some of my friends and family were a little concerned to hear that they were making a gay cowboy movie until we heard that they were really sheep herders. If you are a true cowboy, who cares what sheep herders do!

"Bush will be remembered as a nice guy."

NorCalRINO, I can't decide if your that stupid or your pulling our collective legs. There are many many things Bush will go down in history for, but I can assure you that being "remembered as a nice guy" is NOT one of them.

Christopher

I think having a drink in a bar with you would be fun. However, I think I still hold the record for the largest number of non-alcoholic drinks ever ordered in one night at the Silver Dollar Saloon in my family's hometown of Jackson Hole, Wyoming. I don't actually consume alcoholic beverages but not for the reasons our current President holds off on the brew. I am pretty unihibitted without getting drunk and drinking does not let me forget any of my indiscretions while drunk, so for me there's not much point to it. However, if I was a drinking man, it would be Captain Morgan and not Heinekein that I would be toasting you with.

Judith,

I guess I must be that stupid. Either that or you are just a little over-obsessed with hating Bush. I actually admire people who see the world in stark Black and White, whether they lean left or right. I tend to see all the shades of gray and all the various colors of the visible spectrum. I got a lifetime of absolutes growing up Mormon and that is simply not how I see the world, in absolutes, that is.

The "TRUTH" is seldom either/or; it's usually somewhere in between. God gave us two eyes to give us perspective, but when it comes to politics, too many people insist on seeing the spectrum through only one eye. Of course, if that one eye is shoved up against the scope of a political hit gun, I can see the reason for doing so. I just can't agree with it.

My idea of a "good guy" could include a lot of people who mean well but just get it wrong, not just "W," although he is the one right now that most easily and readily comes to mind. But then, he is another of those "right or wrong", "black or white" people who insist on closing one eye in order to look at the world around him. And being intentionally blind in one eye so as to focus better is my idea of pretty darn stupid. But that still does not make that stupidity "evil" in my book. It's just "stupid."

I suppose I get that ability to look at and observe people without judging them harshly from my dad, a New Deal Democrat and a real Wyoming cowboy. And from that prospective, I can see that you folks are just passionate about your beliefs and highly frustrated that one-eyed stupidity has ruled this land ever since 9/11. I just think that a centerist approach is our best hope in getting out of our present mess. I know that those of us in the center are a small minority compared to either the Left or the Right, but we are the people who swing elections and it is my opinion that public trust has swung away from Bush and the GOP. The trouble in that is that it has not firmly latched on to the Democratic Party as an alternative. Hence my own status as a RINO rather than a new Democrat.

Okay NCR, I'll give ya this, but mind you, it ain't much. You're already way funnier than jwest is, but again, that isn't saying a whole lot if you've followed his comments.

I think that many Presidents have been painted as scondrels, like LBJ, and Hoover, or crooks like Tricky Dick, or mis-painted like Grant and Fillmore, and certainly some have grown into their office, like Teddy and Truman, but then there's bush.

You seem to think that he's a figure of pathos I guess, that well meaning but out of step person always reaching for the door as the lock snicks shut, but I just can't see bush that way at all.

And I am the most tolerant person you could ever expect to see. But I have limits, and bush/cheney exceeded them during the first campaign.

I cannot see bush as well meaning in any way, not based on his actions, his accomplishments, the way he talks to people, the way he lords his position over the lowly court scribes, the way his eyes light up when he talks about killing, no, I have a very hard time finding redeemable qualities or deeds in the boy.

If he were just stupid, that's one thing. But he lacks character, and that is unforgivable in someone who serves others, as the President purportedly does. You can't go do another fund raiser while the people of New Orleans were drowning, and then have a prime time Hollywood backdrop scripted speech later telling us how hard it is and how we must be ever hopeful for the good people of New Orleans who still don't have their city back, Reggie Bush notwithstanding, and expect that to be the final word on your responsibilities.

You can't pay North Korea to start up their nuclear weapons program, coddle Pakistan, bluster the war talk when you've got nothing in your hand but a little tiny dick, and expect people to look longingly on the good ol bush years 10 years from now, let alone 100.

So sorry, bush does not mean well, he really is utterly not worth a shit, not for beer drinking, not for history, not for people, only for corporations, but there I think the backlash is building, and they may come to regret their greed sooner than later.

"My idea of a "good guy" could include a lot of people who mean well but just get it wrong, not just "W," although he is the one right now that most easily and readily comes to mind."

NorCalRINO, I cannot believe that you think George Walker Bush is a "good guy" who "means well but just gets it wrong." Where in the hell have you been for the past six years?

This Country and it's Constitution is being destroyed by this "good guy." Our freedoms are being eroded by this "good guy." The middle class is disasppearing because of this "good guy." We can now torture prisoners now thanks to this "good guy." You can be held, without trial or the ability to see the evidence against you by your "good guy." You can now spy on Americans because this "good guy" thinks it's perfectly okay, even without an court order. Yeah, you idea of a "good guy" is certainly different than mine, and most people on this Blog.

I suppose that this is the thread where all the "discussion" is this evening.

Or not...

...games is on: goodnight.

Judith, Judith:

Such displaced anger. You make me feel like a surrogate for Bush with lines like "Yeah, you idea of a "good guy" is certainly different than mine, and most people on this Blog." Now being unpopular in my views as you measure it is supposed to turn me around? My views are consistent with the all important swing voters who will decide the next election. We do NOT hate Bush, we just no longer trust him. We get it that you do hate him and that you do not get our viewpoint at all.

That's precisely why the Republicans are losing more trust than you folks on the left are gaining. Democrats are marginally ahead of Republicans among likely voters when confidence in this President and the GOP are at all time lows. Democrats should be pulling in double digits ahead of the GOP; this next election should be a landslide, but it won't be. Democrats will pick up a narrow lead over Republicans because while Republicans have lost the public trust, Democrats have yet to win that trust themselves.

A perfect case in point is here in California. Angelides should be killing Schwarzenegger. This is about as Blue a state as there is but a lot of Californians are center-left not far left, so the Governator swung far enough left in his campaign to appear "Centerist" again and people are buying it. Angelides is hanging left and it is costing him. I personally plan to vote for Angelides simply because I am a public school teacher and having been burned once by the Governator, I do not want to risk it again. Angelides did good for himself in my book in the only debate between Ah-nold and himself but not well enough to overcome the celebrity factor of the Governator. Ah-nold may end up being the one "bright spot" for the Republicans come November.

It's that whole same issue of Republicans losing trust by the bucket load and Democrats somehow failing to scoop it back up again.

Duckman,

Careful! "Greed" is a very good word according to Rush Limbaugh. It may even be a sacred word to him. Of course, how you reconcile that view with the teachings of the Biblical Jesus is anyone's guess. It is the view of most so-called "Christian Businessmen."

I was taught as a kid to distrust both Parties as a matter of faith: the Republicans because they claim to love Jesus almost as much as money and Democrats because they demonstrate the love of Jesus for their neighbor and the lust of the devil for their neighbor's wife. Now, it seems the Republicans also want to love your neighbor's kid.

We do NOT hate Bush, we just no longer trust him.

Then you have done quite a poor job of understanding his background. Understanding his incredible failures at everything he attempted in his life, which was always promptly covered by his dads friends. He couldn't even get elected dog-catcher until Rove told him to shut-up and just stand there with that stupid grin on his face. You have no understanding of his socipathic disregard and contempt for the well-being of human beings. You may call yourself a centrist. You are not. I don't think a rational centrist would have the platitudes for Bush that you seem to have. Indeed, you remind me of the apologists who attempt to sway the conversation to the idea that the Mad King, idiot son of George, was pretzledent at an unfortunate time in history, and that no else one could have done any better.

That you can watch him wipe his ass with the Constitution, spend our the treasure on the wealthy and corporations of this country while ruining the finest military the world has known, while those making under $88,000.00 per year lose ground in this economy...and I only state a few things amongst the massive amount of incompetence and sheer evil this adminstration has perpetrated on the American population...and you want to have a beer with him?

Go ahead and say it. He was pretzledent at a bad time, so what else could anyone have done better? Get it out of your system. Then I will gladly tell you he is the single worst president in American History. A war criminal just as sure as was Adolf Hitler or Slobodan Milosevic.

Judith, Judith:

Such displaced anger. You make me feel like a surrogate for Bush with lines like "Yeah, you idea of a "good guy" is certainly different than mine, and most people on this Blog." Now being unpopular in my views as you measure it is supposed to turn me around?

NorCal, NorCal:

Whether you turn around or not is of no importance in my me.

Judith, Judith:

Such displaced anger. You make me feel like a surrogate for Bush with lines like "Yeah, you idea of a "good guy" is certainly different than mine, and most people on this Blog." Now being unpopular in my views as you measure it is supposed to turn me around?

NorCal, NorCal:

Whether you turn around or not is of no importance to me.