Guess whose church will be the next IRS target?
Posted by degustibus at October 25, 2006 08:53 AMOne has to wonder how many more "one issue" reasons there have to be for Rep voters to disengage???
Posted by mainsailset at October 25, 2006 09:14 AMThose damn single issue voters!!
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W d w hv tdy's mss? Th bt tw fctrs fgr hvly.
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hv nvr sn wrtr tht s s plrzd s yrslf, s y wrt btwn brllnc nd thn cmplt stpdty. gss w ll hv t strt smwhr.
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B dvsd tht crp rlsd flms mrly spprt yr pnt f blh-blh, sch s th 'Chclt,' mng mny. Pls sk yrslf why th crps lt ths typs f flms ht th mrkt? T spprt thr gnd f dstrtn, dsrptn, nd dct.
[Editor: ignore=off]The epitome of asshole, Rush Limbaugh, has fiercely impaled the GOP with his stupidity this morning, and so did Rush and the rest of that rabid talk-radio posse on immigration.
I think it's telling that this time [the Michael J. Fox ad] Rush got caught. The only previous time I can think of was his Donovan McNabb crap, and that wasn't in the context of Rush's own show. The GOP is fixin' to go down hard.
Posted by dj moonbat at October 25, 2006 10:07 AMIf we do ever control immigation and corporations are forced to hire only US citizens, we can look for outrageously high prices ($8 cantaloupe, $40/pound ground beef.) Americans like their low prices. They may dislike immigrants but when push comes to shove with their wallets, they will long for the days when corporations could pay immigrants $2/hour to pick fruit.
Personally, I am ambivalent on the matter. Yes, US citizens need higher wages but if they get those higher wages at the expense of price increases, there's no net gain for anyone but the corporations who will protect their bottom line for the CEOs and shareholders over selling affordable milk.
Posted by ann at October 25, 2006 10:26 AMI just want to second what scout said and again ask what planet do you live on.
Posted by JohnT at October 25, 2006 10:31 AMI always knew chocolate was evil, and would destroy the world one day! It's the devil's food, as we all know. mmmm, tootsie rolls...
Rush's idiocy isn't going to make a dent - not while Cheney's his number one interview. Besides, there are just too many people who think the drug-addled gasbag is god, and too many who love the hate enough to cheer on the racism.
Posted by iamcoyote at October 25, 2006 10:38 AMJohnT, scout's a troll, you really don't want to encourage him, or he's going to start up the 9/11 was done by a shady CIA/Jew conspiracy.
But I'm curious, which part do you agree with - the evils of chocolate, the closing of the borders will stop drugs from entering the US? Racism doesn't exist? Please elaborate.
Posted by iamcoyote at October 25, 2006 10:46 AMBut the bad press that Rush is getting over his attack on a guy suffering the severe affects of Parkinsons Disease will have a resonance with independent and undecided voters. They don't need to listen to him to know he's a defacto mouthpiece for the GOP.
Posted by snark at October 25, 2006 10:50 AMcyt, y fl, y r th dsrptv trll, sk r.
nn, pls, y r t smrt t sy crm s K s tht th mddl clss cn lv s chply s pssbl. Wht, d y wnt t rtrn t n trght slv systm nxt? Hw rvltng.
ls, gn, t's nt bt mmgrtn, bt bt llgl mmgrtn. Pls strt y brn, nw. Ths mns tht brdr ptrl mst knw wh s ntrng th cntry, hw lng, nd mk sr tht thy lv whn thr vs xprs, r wrk clrnc, r whtvr. Why, pry tll, r ths smpl cncpts s dffclt? Bcs f crp prr cndtnng. Lk t cyt, sh cn't thnk n nch pst hr mg n th mrrr. Jst crp. Smn tll m jst hw w cn cln t th whrs nd whrmngrs nd hmsxl/pdphl prdtrs n DC f w cn't vn gt crss smpl mmgrtn plcs? Ths crp bys r t gd, nd thy bgn ths plcs vr 100 yrs g, nd nw w hv n ntr cltr f crss dts tht lv dprvty nd rfs t thnk bynd thr mg n th mrrr, r wht thy flsh dwn th tlt. W smply cn't wn, bcs, r rhd dts thnk thy r wnnng vn whn thy'r lsng! Jst crp. 'm s sck.
[Editor: ignore=off]snark, you think it'll affect indy's votes? They already know Rush is a GOP mouthpiece. They've seen him laugh off bad press, and a drug bust. I'm just not sure it will translate into votey goodness for the dems. If the huddled masses yawned while decorated soldiers are called cowards (Kerry, McCain, Clark, Duckworth, et al), you think they're going to care about a sitcom star from the 80's? Especially with the way the media's pretending it's just a silly midwest kerfluffle?
Posted by iamcoyote at October 25, 2006 11:06 AMsnark, you think it'll affect indy's votes?
It's certainly not going to hurt.
...you think they're going to care about a sitcom star from the 80's?
This is the American public we're talking about. And forget Alex Keaton. He was Marty McFly!
Posted by snark at October 25, 2006 11:43 AMWell, Mr. Limbaugh's outburst against Michael J. Fox's certainly made the case for Mark Halperin (ABC'S political director and co-author of The Way To Win") when he went on O'Reilly's show discussing how the "old media" are TOO LIBERAL and thus need to prove to conservative voters these next couple of weeks that they understand the Conservative grievances with their liberal news slant. Yup, that damn liberal media, spewing lies and assumptions against the conservative victims...
As an afternote, it certainly would have been gracious (choke) of Limbaugh to include in his apology that once he was informed that it was indeed the fact that Michael J. Fox WAS taking his medication that produced his on-screen shakes (the medication increases movement to offset the disease's freezing of a person's movement) he realized just how wrong he was.
Once again, Limbaugh relishes the embellishment of his creation so much there's just no room left for facts.
When all is said and done about illegal immigration, the bottom line is that it's about the needs of the poor to make a living, no matter who they are. It's about jobs, it's about pitting the American working class against the Mexican poor in order to benefit the elites of both countries.
Poem by Woody Guthrie, about a plane crash many decades ago that killed a planeload of "deportees" who weren't important enough to be named by the media:
The crops are all in and the peaches are rott'ning,
The oranges piled in their creosote dumps;
They're flying 'em back to the Mexican border
To pay all their money to wade back again
CHORUS:
Goodbye to my Juan, goodbye, Rosalita,
Adios mis amigos, Jesus y Maria;
You won't have your names when you ride the big airplane,
All they will call you will be "deportees"
My father's own father, he waded that river,
They took all the money he made in his life;
My brothers and sisters come working the fruit trees,
And they rode the truck till they took down and died.
Some of us are illegal, and some are not wanted,
Our work contract's out and we have to move on;
Six hundred miles to that Mexican border,
They chase us like outlaws, like rustlers, like thieves.
We died in your hills, we died in your deserts,
We died in your valleys and died on your plains.
We died 'neath your trees and we died in your bushes,
Both sides of the river, we died just the same.
The sky plane caught fire over Los Gatos Canyon,
A fireball of lightning, and shook all our hills,
Who are all these friends, all scattered like dry leaves?
The radio says, "They are just deportees"
Is this the best way we can grow our big orchards?
Is this the best way we can grow our good fruit?
To fall like dry leaves to rot on my topsoil
And be called by no name except "deportees"?
"We will cross mountains, deserts, even borders to feed our family! Wouldn't you!"
Posted by Seven of Six at October 25, 2006 12:01 PMI dunno, snark, who remembers Marty McFly any more, except in reruns on Scifi channel? And Alex Keaton was a more odious troll than non-Prophet here - I blame that show for making the neo-cons seem cute and cuddly while they built up the VRWC and set out to destroy America.
Still, the GOP are showing their true colors by calling Fox a faker, calling Tammy Duckworth (both legs amputated) a "cut and runner" ad nauseum. Like Stephanie Miller said, "they've run out of bullets and now the GOP's throwing the gun." How pathetic! Mainsailset, I'm not sure facts have ever been associated with Rush!
Julie, thanks for the Guthrie poem!
Posted by iamcoyote at October 25, 2006 12:15 PMI don't usually weigh in on this topic, but if the Radical Republicans win again two weeks from now, the "immigration" issue (illegal or otherwise) will have had a lot to do with it.
It's this cycle's hot button emotional issue (as Rove intended from the start), and plays great with non-college educated white people and hierarchical "law and order" personalities. The "conservatives" are running this issue pretty hard in ads all over the country, and it's working with its target group, which is not latinos, duh.
Hilariously, Republicans (as usual) have absolutely no plans to REALLY do anything effective about illegal immigration, as their corporate contributors and agri-business base can't exist without the illegals. Severe monetary penalties on businesses found with illegal workers (including ultimate forfeiture of the business and its assets to the government, like we do with drug dealers) and significantly beefed up enforcement (raids on businesses), together with a legalization and path-to-citizenship plan for those we foolishly let flood in here, would perhaps get us somewhere, but actual effective REGULATION of the businesses that are causing the problem is not going to accomplished by the businessman's GOP, to say the least.
Manipulating and deceiving the voters is the stock in trade of the Republican Party, so we're off and running on this comedy of immigration "policy". You can argue it's not a long term "winner" for KKKarl Rover's successor sometime in the future. Nero jr, facing Congressional subpeonas, couldn't care less. The future is now, baby.
Posted by euzoius at October 25, 2006 12:27 PMthe Latino community has learned an important lesson - trust the GOP and you'll be sorry. The one thing the GOP Immigration/Border Fence plan did was galvanize the Latino community and send them into the streets by the 100,000's to protest the GOP heavy-handed approach. I have never bought into the Latino Vote as a major factor. They just don't vote much, for several reasons. But the GOP may have created a much more activist voting block by their "hang-em then deport 'em" proposals. Welcome back to the Dems, Latino's, it's where you belong.
Posted by T2 at October 25, 2006 12:51 PMoozo: Watch how you demean "non-college educated white people", or I will smite thee with my high school yearbooks.
Well, a dem volunteer just came to my door wearing a snazzy "Democrat Party" shirt and wanted to know if we got our ballots thru the mail OK. Az dem party alive and well.
He was polite, and didn't ask me if I went to college. Will my ignorant vote count?
Posted by TIKI AL at October 25, 2006 01:10 PMI have never bought into the Latino Vote as a major factor. They just don't vote much, for several reasons.
My Hispanic wife and her family in Pueblo, CO will all vote Democratic. My mother and my cousin's from Guatemala will be voting Democratic. My brother and I will be voting Democratic. I will say it's going to run something like 90% Hispanic's voting Democratic. And yes...we do vote.
The few in the family who vote GOP support this illegal war! Some are religious freaks! Yes, even former immigrants can be lied to and spun to believe that the GOP has there best interest at heart!
My mother and my cousin's from Guatemala will be voting Democratic.
Guatemala?
What county's that in?
;)
Posted by snark at October 25, 2006 01:32 PMIt's like baseball, TIKI, I'm just talking about percentages.
And historically, a solid majority of the "white college educated" have tended to support the Republicans.
Millions upon millions of "non-college educated white people" support Democrats and progressive policies, of course Yet something like 62% of them voted for Bush in 2004--a 24% gap, or something like that, can't remember exactly.
I can see how people can take offense at the comment, and perhaps it was the wrong way to say it, but how else can the phenomenon be described? Maybe "working class" is a better description. Or perhaps I should just scratch the "education" component, as I think the "immigration" issue plays well with most whites.
I meant only to report a "fact" that I have run across, and certainly didn't mean to offend, especially TIKI.
Posted by euzoius at October 25, 2006 01:39 PMGuatemala?
What county's that in?
Southern Mexico!
Posted by Seven of Six at October 25, 2006 01:53 PMmy grandfather's name is Gutierrez, and I'll be voting Dem,too.
Posted by T2 at October 25, 2006 02:07 PMRight on T2, right on! Mi familia!
My pasty white ass ain't got no Latino in it but for what it's worth I'll be voting Democratic too.
So that's three. Who's gonna keep count so those fuckers can't cheat?
I don't think the Dem machine has realized yet the power of this issue. This is an especially hot topic for the Reagan Dems. And I've said it before--The Repuglies have boxed the discussion in, with Bush playing good cop, and the Minutemen the bad cops, so they win both ways. Reframe, reframe, reframe is the only way the Dems can win on this one. Don't even touch the argument on whether or not there should be a fence. This is not about illegal immigrants, it's about illegal employers. The working class is getting squeezed between job out-sourcing and cheap immigrant labor. The Dems must let the Reagan Dems know that their concerns about jobs are being heard.
Seaking of out-sourcing, I have been polled three or four times in the last two weeks, and at least two of the poll workers sounded distinctly Indian. What does that tell you?
Posted by Julie at October 25, 2006 02:18 PM7of6, nevertheless, I believe the % of eligible Latinos who vote has not been, on a national level, a factor as of yet. Maybe that will change as the % of the Hispanic/Latin population overall increases, but the factors that keep the voting % low will need to change also. Case in point -recent GOP attempt to scare "immigrants" from voting in Sanchez's California district.
Posted by T2 at October 25, 2006 02:30 PMhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJRVhWizVc8
Posted by Julie at October 25, 2006 02:43 PMoozo: "Supreme Working Class Hero" works for me, thank you, no offense taken.
Besides, as a highschool graduate I take solace in the fact that it was white college educated morons that embarked on the worst foreign policy blunder in history while simultaneously flushing the constitution down the Thomas Crapper.
Posted by TIKI AL at October 25, 2006 03:26 PMann, please, you are too smart to say a crime is OK so that the middle class can live as cheaply as possible. What, do you want to return to an outright slave system next? How revolting.
I never said a crime was okay. I said that while Americans don't like undocumented workers, they like their low prices and I can bet you dollars to doughnuts that once Americans realize there is no net gain for them, they will long for cheap labor so consumer prices are lower.
Posted by ann at October 25, 2006 03:27 PMIf Democrats lose this time it will be by a single issue such as the opposition to Border fence. Why Dems are so stupid of opposing it? A fence gives a perception of solid seperation. Why oppose it. Now the Republicans have to just point out that Dems are against a fence that can prevent terrorists entering US. Nobody looks into that what congress has appoved is less than 700 miles of fence for a border of 2500 miles. People do not pay attention to these details. What will be stuck in voters minds will be that Dems are opposed to building a fence on US-Mexico border. When Dems going to learn to keep away from hot button issues? In 2004 they screwed it up with Gay Marriage issue.
Posted by suresh at October 25, 2006 03:48 PMWhy Dems are so stupid of opposing it? A fence gives a perception of solid seperation. Why oppose it.
suresh, you certainly have a point. I come out strongly against the fence for a more conservative reason: it's a waste of money. Now, if Dems could actually articulate that the fence is an expensive Republican illusion that won't change anything (aka: pandering) I'd be on it with them, but no one in Congress seems willing to call pork what it really is.
Posted by ann at October 25, 2006 03:53 PMThe idea of 'securing' the border makes about as much sense as invading Iraq--it sounds nice in the abstract, but the reality is that it is unworkable. From the Great Wall of China to the Maginot Line, isolationist leaders have tried building walls to keep 'illegals' out, and the bottom line is, they don't work, and are just expensive boondoggles.
Even if the entire US/Mexican border were to be fenced off (which would be an unimaginably expensive proposition), there are still thousands of miles of coastline, east, west and gulf, not to mention our border with Canada.
Do you really think the 'coyotes' are going to pack it in if the US 'secures' the US/Mexico border? Well, then, the GOP has a few good candidates for you.
And, like it's fellow boondoggle Iraq, the Border issue has little to do with its stated purpose, and everything to do with what is left unsaid...i'm sure that Bechtel and Blackwater will be needing some lucrative post-Iraq contracts!
We do need better border control and immigration procedures, however, the 'close the borders' recidivism is scaremongering, not governance.
Posted by cheSF at October 25, 2006 04:45 PM"Scaremongering, not governance."
That's the entire GOP platform, for Christ's sake.
Posted by euzoius at October 25, 2006 05:25 PMWhat we are going to do Nov. 7th isn't a national election, it's a national IQ test.
Posted by herbal tee at October 25, 2006 05:54 PMIf memory serves, last Spring when the immigration issues heated up the Latino radio shows were able to mobilize a sizeable # of people that looked to me like they might find their way to the polls with a memory in their hearts of how a Republican Congress viewed them.
Posted by mainsailset at October 25, 2006 06:14 PMDon't worry. A fence is not going to be built. The republi-cons even say so. The billions and billions (dang, I'm the reincarnation of Carl Sagan) of borrowed Chinese dollars are going to Halliburton, KBR and Blackwell because of their stunning successes with security in Iraq. It's just another republi-con boondogle. No news here.
Posted by phidipides at October 25, 2006 06:17 PMPhid, Did you mean Blackwater?
Posted by Seven of Six at October 25, 2006 07:08 PMI became US Citizen in 2003, from Mexico, my wife from El Salvador, US Citizen and 8 other members of my family are from Mexico and El Salvador and are US Citizens and are able to vote, my district (California 39th) is heavily Latino and Democratic, We are voting Democratic for one simple reason, we are welcomed, and we are going to take the house, the senate and revert all the draconian immigration laws passed by the republicans from the south.
Posted by chompiz at October 25, 2006 09:11 PMActually, the Great Wall did work: the Mongols got in because it had fallen into disrepair and the Manch were allowed in by treachery.
Posted by Brian Boru at October 25, 2006 09:35 PM"Some Congressmen want to build a fence along the Mexican border. One question: how are you going to build a 1900 mile, 15 foot high fence on the Mexican border without using Mexican labor? Think they’ll draft housewives from La Jolla?" -Will Durst
Posted by Alex at October 26, 2006 07:21 PMthree things about a fence,
1) estemate is half of all illigals are here on expired visas.
2) show me a 20 foot fence and I will show you a 21 foot ladder. Also my friend Rita from New Mexico, who rightly says her parents didn't croos the border, the border crossed them, also states that she comes from four generations of miners.
3) It is a really expensive, both fiscally and politically sham.
If you want to stop undocumented workers from comming to the US, fine the employers. It would generate revenue for the Governmnent and work.
Jim