Thank you Steve.
Posted by peter at November 8, 2006 01:22 PMNice piece, Steve. Go for the long-term gains, I'm so with you on that. Yours reminds me of idiosynchronic's great essay from this morning - here it is.
Posted by iamcoyote at November 8, 2006 01:24 PMCan you specify what issues liberals want pushed that you think would be damaging? Otherwise this is the proverbial "some say."
Posted by Antid Oto at November 8, 2006 01:28 PMAnd, ending government subsidies for the oil industry. I'm tired of paying for them to rake in windfall profits on my dime.
Posted by Christopher at November 8, 2006 01:31 PMWell said. The time has come to bury the GOP for a generation and we need to keep the independents and moderate Republicans deserting the GOP. There's no reason why we can't add more seats in Congress in 2008, especially in the Senate.
Posted by gf120581 at November 8, 2006 01:45 PMPelosi needs to lock in these gains . . . so that the Democrats head into the next decade with solid margins in both houses, even before our newly-elected governors from last night can possibly steer reapportionment after their reelection and the next census.
Technically, there's no legal requirement that we wait until after the next census. DeLay et al. did their double-dip redistricting, and although parts of that power grab were struck down, those stricken parts were not on the basis of a restriction to one redistricting per census period (although that argument was raised).
Of course, it would be the height of political folly to pull such a brazen maneuver right now. But it would not be illegal, apparently (unless, of course, this is one of those IOKIYAR things that the Supreme Court pulls every now and again).
Posted by dj moonbat at November 8, 2006 02:14 PMIf the Reps had stayed in power, do you think peter would be thanking Steve for a call to govern from the center? My guess is he'd be claiming they'd earned capital and would be spending it and that they'd be willing to work with anyone who would agree with them.
Posted by ann at November 8, 2006 02:16 PM"We have learned from watching the Republicans -- they would not allow moderates a voice in their party. We must work from the middle."
--Harry Reid
Bingo!
I'm a liberal Democrat but priorities are priorities. The number one priority is repairing our government. The next priority is getting out of Iraq with our foreign policy still reasonably intact. A huge priority is simply finding out where we are: what is the state of our economy, our military, our energy situation, the federal budget, etc; we can't move forward until we know where we are after six years (or is it twenty-year years?) of misinformation. Liberal and moderates can agree on this without any problem. And there's some broad issues like minimum wage that even some conservatives can agree on. Even Republicans once upon a time believed in ideas about the common good; it's now up to liberals and moderates to restore some of that. This is going to take more than two years; it may take ten years to get our country turned around. But it's going to take both liberals and moderates to get the job done.
The other lesson yesterday is that Americans want candidates who are clear about what they stand for rather than looking over their shoulders to see what their consultants say. The Karl Roves of the Republicans, and yes, even the Democrats, are now out of business or on notice. Come to think of it, the conventional media is on serious probation; our nation is in crisis and the media spent three days last week talking about 20 seconds of a mangled Kerry joke instead of six years of a mangled presidency.
Posted by Craig at November 8, 2006 02:17 PMIn 2008, the chances of locking in a solid Democratic majority are door. The 'rodent class' of 2002 is up and the post 911 fearmongering is no longer effective. The people do want leadership, they gave the little man with the bullhorn a chance and he let them down. Now, we have a chance, a permanent realignment is not secure yet, but if the cross over voters are satisfied with the change they've made this year, progressive polices will come. You just can't get too far in front the larger society lest the nightmare that we're just waking up from happens again.
Posted by herbal tee at November 8, 2006 02:19 PMIn talking about this, we need to start talking specifics. We have to start defining, issue by issue, what exactly is meant by liberal policies and agendas. As Antid Oto posted above, you need to define exactly what "liberal" policies or ideas you view as damaging to a lasting coalition. You can not just condemn them out of hand.
Otherwise, everything you just wrote, compelling as it may seem, is just more bullshit.
Having said that, I must state that it would be great if we could somehow magically put Gay rights and abortion on the back burner for at least a couple of years so that we could get the rest of our house in order. Then, maybe with a calmer, more informed populace we could tackle these divisive issues.
Of course, I also wish that I had the head of hair I had when I was eighteen so...
The word 'door above is supposed to be 'good.' I have no idea why it came out as door, unless the spirit of Jim Morrison is moving within me. ;)
Posted by herbal tee at November 8, 2006 02:21 PMWell, the tax cuts have to go. Doubtless, we will draw fire for being "tax and spend liberals," but our fiscal situation is as bad a problem as the Iraq war, if not worse, for America's future.
Posted by dj moonbat at November 8, 2006 02:25 PMWatching the absurd Republican water-carrying cable news shows last night demonstrates what a HUGE problem they are: they refuse to accurately convey facts and information in a way which is not horribly prejudicial to Dems.
They literally will not challenge a word out of the lying waxen mouth of that cadaverous demonic Mehlman or his henchmen. He lies with utter complete impunity, without challenge.
The Dem party leaders need to determine about how to change this dynamic or these televised turd "journalists" will continue their "conservative" apologetics and distortion until the cows come home.
Posted by euzoius at November 8, 2006 02:35 PMthe door has opened for a period of responsible governance. But remember, many of the most agregious actions of the now-lamest duck Bush Admin have had time-bombs inserted into them with the purpose of continuing to enrich the rich and screw the rest of us for years to come. These need to be ferreted out and reversed. In addition, the horrific damage done by the Bush Admin to our environmental well-being must be addressed. Lets understand that the people of the United States have just rejected the Bush policies and performance resoundingly, and I believe they/we fully want change. Change for the better for all Americans, not the priviledged few.
Posted by T2 at November 8, 2006 02:37 PMOne more comment, if you will. I questioned, as many did, exactly what would happen if the wheels came off the Rove Machine. Like many, my speculation ran from rampant cheating, to postponing/invalidating the election, to simply refusing to recognize the winners (forcing the matter to the SCOTUS) to even martial law. None of these materialized. In the end, when the country opened a massive can of whip ass on George W. Bush, his Administration, and the GOP as a whole, they responded like the spoiled bullies they are. They did nothing. They did what they've done for 6 years, blamed someone else for their failures. They are LOSERS. But worse, they are lying losers who care about no one except themselves.
Posted by T2 at November 8, 2006 02:48 PMT2, hear, hear.
Wolf just finished the interview with Pelosi and she reiterated that impeachment was off the table, but she definitely expects to start oversight right away. When asked about committee appointments she said sometimes the senior minority chairs moved to the leadership positions, but sometimes they don't. I got the impression that Wolf was asking about Lieberman, especially since he mentioned the intelligence committee in particular, and Pelosi immediately said that those seats are always rearranged. Hmmm. One of the considerations, she said was loyalty to the party and how they'd publicly defended them in the past. Seemed like a dig at Joementum to me.
Earlier, I couldn't believe it when Wolf asked Kissenger if the Dem win didn't naturally embolden the insurgents in Iraq. Really, that's what he said.
Posted by iamcoyote at November 8, 2006 02:52 PMDems should move immediately on the anti-corruption and election reform fronts which have NO opposition within the American citizenry and which their new caucus will be completely united on.
And let the party of authoritarian corruption explain why they're against such popular reforms.
Let's have some fun with these turds.
Posted by euzoius at November 8, 2006 02:52 PMBush's press meeting today was remarkable.
He really is certifiable and the Democratic sweep, in the face of Karl Rove's "upbeat" prediction on the election, seems to have driven him plumb over the cliff!
Poor thing. Oh well. Ativan on your corn flakes.
Posted by Christopher at November 8, 2006 02:56 PMMy new President? Nancy Pelosi!!!! She's more Presidential than shitbutt. Who needs an election after a coup? She is the President! I'm proud to be an American, now! Long live the United States of America! By God, we don't take it after all! We can lift our heads again! In pride! She's a LADY and I'm so proud!
Posted by Mal Feasance at November 8, 2006 03:13 PMPelosi gets it. The Republicans lost last night more than the Democrats won. If she goes too far left then this is a hollow victory that will be reversed in 2008. Americans as a group are centrists. That's why 2 party politics continues to work for us. We want to select from a menu of choices. Lefties and Righties are great as long as the nation is ruled from the center. The Republicans got into a frenzy of power and believed their own lies of America being a right-wing nation. It is not nor is it a lefty nation. We simply want the best of both. Protect the environment but don't ruin life in the suburbs to do so. Let Gays have civil rights as Americans but protect "Marriage" as a heterosexual institution of human civilization. These are all centrist views. Clinton understood all that which is why he polled everything before taking a position on anything. Pelosi understands it because she recruit centril Democrats to challenge Republicans in Red States and beat the Righties, because even in Red States there are more moderates than true Conservatives.
Gays in America should be pushing for "Civil Unions" right now because that is a term that polls well with a majority of Americans. Most straight Americans, including most Democrats, are not comfortable with calling a lawful gay union "marriage," even if the gay couple enjoy all of the same legal rights and just go by a different title. Do not think that Pelosi will abandon any of her liberal views. She will just bide her time and bend things as far left as she can without breaking the trust of the people in the middle the way the Republicans did with all their fear-mongering about national security.
Posted by NorCalRINO at November 8, 2006 03:29 PMgreat post and ideas steve. i'd like all that stuff done right away too, but I think you made a good case for consolidating the gains etc
good ideas. and thanks.
Posted by michael72 at November 8, 2006 04:02 PMWell, the tax cuts have to go. Doubtless, we will draw fire for being "tax and spend liberals," but our fiscal situation is as bad a problem as the Iraq war, if not worse, for America's future.
This is 2nd only to Iraq as a concern, IMHO. If we let the fiscal insanity of the last six years stand, it doesn't make much difference what else we do. We'll all be impoverished, and our children as well. If the Dems can't roll back these giveaways to the richest, we might as well give up any idea of the commonweal, because it will still be every man for himself.
Posted by nyc at November 8, 2006 04:07 PMSorry. Again, I say. I refuse to reach out until the people responsible for this mess are held accountable and are removed from any decision making process.
These assholes have created a hole so big that it is going to take decades to repair. Now they want us to join hands. F*** You.
I will move forward but I most certainly will not go quietly into the night.
Posted by Simp at November 8, 2006 04:08 PMCan you specify what issues liberals want pushed that you think would be damaging?
Anything a lobbyest says is liberal is damaging. Anything a republi-con says is liberal is damaging. Anything a talking head says is liberal is damaging. Can't be liberal...too fucking damaging. Thank God people weren't walking the "moderate line" during the civil rights movement.
I refuse to reach out until the people responsible for this mess are held accountable and are removed from any decision making process.
Exactly. They need to be lanced like the pustulent boils they are. Their misdeeds squeezed out for all to examine. Each and every one of those people is a canker sore on the ass of humanity.
"We have learned from watching the Republicans -- they would not allow moderates a voice in their party. We must work from the middle."
Unless you have forgotten political propriety, Reid just told republi-cons that they can come crawling and Democrats may...just may...give them a few moments to state their case before Dems lock the doors to the meetings and tell the Rs to fuck off.
Posted by phidipides at November 8, 2006 05:17 PMI refuse to reach out until the people responsible for this mess are held accountable and are removed from any decision making process.
I understand the desire to punish these bastards. But there's a LOT of work that needs to be done to clean up what they've broken. To do that work, Democrats need to keep getting elected for a while. Unless polls show that punishment will advance the goal of getting elected and fixing what's broken (and I suspect it would mostly do the opposite), punishment will just be a luxury we can't afford.
Posted by dj moonbat at November 8, 2006 05:22 PMSteve,
You are making a classic mistake--you're confusing independents with moderates. They are not the same animal and holding on to their votes requires different kinds of policies. Besides, the majority of self-identified moderates are really liberals who have been cowed into believing that "liberal" is a derogatory label. One cannot make the same claim about independents. For example, most libertarians are independents. Does that make them moderates? I don't think so.
Buck:
I am calling on the Dems to find some common ground with the libertarians. The last six years of Bush's "big brother" government should make this easy.
Posted by Steve Soto at November 8, 2006 05:49 PMUnless polls show that punishment will advance the goal of getting elected...
A strictly republi-con strategy.
Polls are not the end all of political will. Doing what is right and proper are. People know the difference between governance by polls and governance by what makes a difference in the lives of people. If you had polled people about the Civil Rights Act of 1964 you would never have moved forward on it using your calculus, because the south might not have voted dem in a presidential election. Sometimes you have to take a chance and do what is right.
Posted by phidipides at November 8, 2006 05:50 PMThere's too much work to be done. If flaying Bush jeopardizes the opportunity to fix things, it should not be done.
Posted by dj moonbat at November 8, 2006 06:58 PMGreat post, and it is heartening to see a concensus in the comments. Many of our gains came in red states. Common sense, responsible action and a moderate course will garner strength for the future. Don't bite off too much to chew to begin with but string some small victories together and gain the confidence of the electorate.
Posted by Greg at November 8, 2006 07:20 PMOnce national health care gets passed, then we pass a law that all the Republicans be dragged down Pennsylvania Avenue by a parade of electric cars.
Posted by dj moonbat at November 8, 2006 07:30 PMOnce national health care gets passed, then we pass a law that all the Republicans be dragged down Pennsylvania Avenue by a parade of electric cars.
What's the vote so far? Any backroom deals to get this pushed through? Should I contact my DINO representative? How do we get FOX on our side? Bush will sign it if you attach a "Nuke Iran" rider that allows the torturing of Girl Scouts. Grrrrr...those damn Girl Scouts and their terrorist cookies!
Posted by phidipides at November 8, 2006 08:29 PMSeeking revenge will turn Americans off to your side of the isle. Working for Americans may keep them by your sides. Many above seem to want revenge for politics. That's just about the same as wanting revenge when that guy cuts you off on the freeway. Wrong thought, wrong message. If you follow that message, we will be winning back all those seats you won last night in 'red' areas. Get cocky, go for it. You feel you deserve some love right now. Smack, get over it. Americans voted yesterday. Did they vote against someone or for someone. If it's against, that person will not be on the ballot next time. What then?
And what of Lieberman? All forgiven now that he holds the key to the majority? The second most powerful man in DC. The most powerful in the senate, the king maker!
You're now driving the car. Lead, follow, or get out of the way. Revenge isn't leadership.
America spoke, we listened, they chose more Democrats than Republicans. I awoke this morning, the air smelled the same; the water taste the same. The world did not end. Democrats won, now lead!
America will be watching, and America can change their minds. Rather quickly too.
Posted by peter at November 8, 2006 09:26 PMFine, impeachment's off the table; I can live with that. However, I do think that an impeachment bill needs to be filed in order to keep Bush from pardoning all of the criminals surrounding him. He Has no power to pardon in cases of impeachment; absent a filed (but not acted on) bill of impeachmentm they'll all go free (see GHW Bush and Iran-Contra).
Posted by Brian Boru at November 8, 2006 09:42 PMCome on Steve, the "liberals" know when the moderates go home they have to have something for their voters. But just look at what needs to be done..in Missouri McCaskill won by 51%, but a raise in the minimum wage hike won by 70% (+). All the Democrats have to do is stop the war on the middle class..that was started by W, Dick, Cheney.
Posted by americanforliberty at November 8, 2006 09:51 PMWhy is it so hard to see that this is not about revenge, punishment or "I told you so."
It is about responsibility. If they are not held accountable, why should anyone going into office ever worry about making Hail Mary passes even when it is sure to kill 10's of thousands of people?
Accountability. Responsibility.
After being called unpatriotic, a traitor, an apeaser, a Nazi, and multitudes of other things, that is the very least I can ask for.
Oh and Peter? A special double high bird in the air to you. I find it freaking unhilarious how you have changed your tone in the last 4 to 6 weeks.
Posted by simp at November 8, 2006 10:13 PMI agree. Giant steps would be a mistake at first. Baby steps of reform are called for initially, with longer strides being taken progressively over time.
For instance, we know that the Bush/Cheney administration is at least 100 times more corrupt than the Nixon administration...which means that the Bush administration has 100 times more corruption that needs covering up.
In the next two years before Bush/Cheney slink out of the White House, probably leaving in the dead of night by the back door, Bush/Cheney will do so many things to keep the truth of their corruption from Democratic members of Congress and the American public, that eventually the evidence will become so insurmountable and irrefutable about their corruption that impeachment hearings will finally be possible.
Remember that during Watergate, the evidence about Nixon corruption trickled in slowly at first, but became a flood later. I foresee this in regards to any investigation of Bush administration corruption.
In other words, as the first Democratic Party-led hearings into Bush administration corruption occurs early next year, and as the first refusals by Bush officials to appear before these hearings happens, the calls for impeachment will increase exponentially. This will lead people who know of Bush administration corruption to finally step forward and testify, because they will see that the Democratic Party is serious about cleaning up the rampant Republican Party corruption that the Democrats have inherited, as well as inherited by all U.S. citizens, including their children and grandchildren.
The Democrats were returned to power in Congress by concerned U.S. citizens who want to see the Democrats provide Damage Control for all the Republican excesses of the past 12 years, including the insane excesses of the mad, mad, mad Bush administration.
Democratic Party = Republican Damage Control.
Democratic Party = Republican Damage Mitigation.
Democratic Party = Reversal of Republican Damage.
Just maybe the Democratic Party can save our democracy after all that the Republicans have done to destroy it.
Oh, BTW, another prediction. Either Bush will veto all Democratic Party-generated legislation or we will see a huge increase in Bush signing statements in which he essentially will tell the Democrat-controlled Congress to go screw itself. Which will just add a few more nails to Bush's and Cheney's impeachment coffin.
Posted by The Oracle at November 8, 2006 10:16 PMCan I use some of that "The Oracle"?
Posted by Seven of Six at November 9, 2006 05:34 AMGreat post. I agree that the democrats need to lead with a strong, positive agenda that can split off the remaining moderates in the GOP coalition.
But there's one place the Dems must make war: K Street. They really need to punish the firms that played ball with the GOP. It's not enough for the worst offenders to diversify the ideological spectrum of their employees. Pelosi and Reid must make clear to all Democrats (especially Clinton Administration alumni) that if you take a job with these bad actors, you won't get the time of day on the Hill.
Posted by TG at November 9, 2006 07:09 AMYou have to be careful not to learn the wrong lesson from the Republican losses on Tuesday. Keep it in prespective. They may have narrowly lost their majorities in the House and Senate but don't forget: before that they had a 26 year run which succeeded in utterly transforming the Americsan political landscape and in passing many extremist right-wing measures.
They did NOT achieve this by pursuing timid centrist policies. Instead they held strong to their "principles" and moved the center far to the right.
THAT is what we have to learn from the Republicans. We need to move the center far to the left of where it is now (which is NOT the same thing as far to the left by the way).
Posted by The Fool at November 9, 2006 07:58 AMSteve, I agree for the most part. Never-the-less, I believe that there are three critical agenda items for the 110th Congress which MAY be divisive:
#1: Repeal of the most egregious provisions of the Military Commissions Act;
#2: Legislation of election standards that require a verifiable paper audit trail of electronic voting, no matter what the dollar cost;
#3: Investigations.
Paper trail legislation is likely veto-proof, and repeal of the MCA is likely NOT veto proof, but both position the Democrats as the party that ensured vote counting integrity and fought to restore our constitutional rights.
What about the war in Iraq? Campaign financing? Deficit spending? Tax benifits for the wealthy? Job outsourcing? Unaffordable health care? Oil dependency? Global warming?
What about these and a host of other critical issues? The sad truth, as you've pointed out, is that the truly progressive, substantive legislation required to reverse the disasterous policies of the past six years (arguably TWENTY-six years) is not going to be passed by the 110th Congress. With a deluded, ideology-driven Republican president, and a one seat majority in the Senate, it will be up to a veto-proof 111th and a Democratic President.
And that brings us to the third critical agenda item: Investigations. Rigorous, splashy, sexy investigations. (NOT impeachment hearings). The best hope for essential electoral gain in 2008 is voter education. The people MUST be educated as to where we are now and how the hell we got here. It's one thing to pass reform legislation. For lasting change, the people must understand viscerally WHY reform is vital.
So Steve, Who is this 'middle' we have to please? The Rockefeller Republicans at the DLC? I don't know where you've been the last six years but where i sit it was and still is pretty scary. Bipartisan? Bullshit! If you can believe the exit polls, just for the sake of argument, the majority of voters were concerned about 'corruption'. That means we want accountability, not more nuanced politics from the Senate. We elected junkyard dogs - turn 'em loose! Thanks, and I'll take my answer off-line.
Posted by danno at November 10, 2006 04:35 PMSteve:....You make some good point with regard to a Democratic agenda, but you left out the most glaring inequities that the American people have had to suffer through.
After all of the high fives and slaps on the back one can tolerate, what ever happened to the anger and angst with regard to our constitutional rights?
Our Constitution took a broad side on Oct 17th when Bush signed the Military Commissions Act. What happened to the outrage over the Patrioy Act ( I and II ) ? What ever happened to all those in the Democratic party that bemoaned the unraveling mess over secret wire taps within the US?
Yes, we have some political capital to spend as Democrats, but in point of fact, within a couple of months the public at large will sour on our party just as they did the Republicans unless these glaring hits to the constitution are addressed.
If not, I would imagine that even sites such as these might be considered to be in the camp of an enemy combatant, with no recourse to an attorney or even knowing what charges are being leveled against you.
No, the Democrats will throw us a few crumbs by raising the minimum wage. Big whoop! Lets see just how much outrage the Democrats really have.
{sigh} Every time people who are labelled "liberals" push through legislation (minimum wage increases for example), everyone else cries that the sky is falling. Then when these things are actually enacted and chaos does NOT ensue no one says a word. If you wait until you (hope to) have a bigger majority, the special interests will have time to get a grip on the newbies. Stop throwing around labels and get stuff done. When things actually start to improve, most will just shut up and go with it. God, so-called Dems are going to blow this opportunity - again.
Posted by Whitee at November 10, 2006 08:35 PMAndrew and Whitee...
In principle I agree with you. We do need to be bold, and pandering to the conservatives would certainly backfire.
HOWEVER, aggressive ideological purity can backfire as well. 50,000 purists voted for Nader in Florida. Look at the result. We must pick our battles wisely, positioning ourselves to accomplish truly great things two years from now.
Posted by WisePiper at November 10, 2006 09:11 PMAs much as I'd like to see Bush, Cheney and Rice thrown in jail, I agree that more important issues need to be addressed.
Issue 1: Our troops, Iraq, Afganistan
Issue 1.1: Debt Management
Issue 2: Palestinian statehood - partly paid for by 1/2 annual budget US gives to Israel.
Everything else goes on the back burner including min wage, nat healthcare, miltary commission act/patriot act un-doing, global warming, aipac lobbying, etc.
Iraq - The Chinese and Russians have made significant inroads into the region. With a strong Shia Iraq, Iran, Syria, S. Lebannon and part of Saudi Arabia, most of the ME oil will be under islamic control. Chinese and Russian oil giants will be in control of much of the production and refining. As much as I want the troops out, I think a ME controlled by Mullahs and the Chinese is insanity for US long term interest. China can even control/blockade the oil flow to Japan, Korea and Taiwan and cause all kinds of trouble here in Asia. Even worst for the US, the US$ as the reserve currency is then finished since there will be no reason for the Chinese, Russians, EU, India or Africans to purchase $ to buy oil anymore. (I know this isn't news, I just think its top priority to figure what where the Chinese are heading). Everyone knows what will happen if the financial wheel stops spinning.
I know its CT, but sometimes I wonder if the FEMA camps that are being setup all over the USA are for financial crimes (people unable to pay off their mortgages since new bankruptcy laws demand repayment). Perhaps inmates are the new low wage work force in the USA. It could happen if there is a dollar meltdown. The Chinese hate the US and are just waiting for the right time to pull the carpet out (partly because of support for Taiwan). EU is now their biggest market. Iran has the oil and the ME is also a big market.
There is an interesting, fictional short article on the Chinese ceasing to buy more T-bills:(china trigger) http://financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/2006/1109.html
Posted by marc at November 11, 2006 05:08 AM