The Pew Research you refer to shows a graph wich upticks at 2003 which I assume is the Iraq Invasion.All groups appear to uptick together. What does that mean to you?
Posted by gtash at December 24, 2006 08:23 AMRepublicans believe the founding fathers were devout Christians.
Thomas Jefferson said: "Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man". John Adams contended that: "This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion on it." And Benjamin Franklin said: "Lighthouses are more useful than churches."
You can find quotes that lean the other way, too, which leads me to believe that if nothing else, the founding fathers were devout politicians.
Merry Christmas!
When you see the Party ID of republi-cons, it seems to me that we're dealing with a different set of phenomena than just simple politics. For these people, party ID seems to be a cognitive heuristic rather than rational identification with a party.
Regarding our mental processes, the way these heuristics operate is to save processing capacity. We really are quite limited in mental processing capacity. It's difficult to do too many things at one time when it comes to thinking about things, so we apply heuristics to save capacity. I like beer. I like beer for many reasons, and I can tell you about those reasons. But when I go to a bar I ask for a beer without thinking about all of the reasons I like beer. If you ask me what I like to drink, I say "Beer". I don't have to think about it. I guess my heuristic for beer is based on beer's wholesome goodness!
Another example I'll use is stereotyping. Rascists don't think about why they hate some group. Rather, they see some feature of group membership (skin color, hair, car, address of home, area of town, a street named Martin Luther King) and automatically stereotype. It's a heuristic, it's automatic with no thought to it. Some see a Hispanic and that person is automatically an illegal alien. A Black woman with children becomes a welfare queen. Of course, stereotyping has to be learned, and generally it's learned from family or friends. But once learned it becomes automatic with no real thought to it. It becomes a cognitive heuristic.
Can the stereotyper tell you why they hate some group? Sure. But they must be made to think about it, and they won't be able to do much else cognitively when telling you about it. The horrifying thing is that the reasons are often nebulous and vague, and have no real bases in fact. 80% of women on TANF are white, but the stereotyper will not recognize this feature, and when confronted with it will say something like, "Well, that's a problem."
So too I think it is with Republi-con party ID. They appear to use a heuristic when asked about party identification. But the republi-cons I talk to about their party membership are really nebulous and vague about the reasons for their party ID. They'll tell you the things that are lies: (1) Fiscal conservatives; (2) Limited government; and (3) Strong military -"keeping us safe." But ask them about how these ideals have never been met by their party and they have real problems responding. They even get angry and display very rigid authoritarianism. They want you to believe as they do because it is "right".
It's the anger that I think best represents how they are operating through a hueristic considering their republi-con party ID. It's their frustruation with their inability to explain their party membership so that others can "get it". No different than a child who becomes frustruated with their inability to explain what they are thinking to an adult. They just don't have the cognitive capacity to explain thoughts they don't understand.
How many times do the trolls here respond not with some rational explanation, but rather a laundry list of catchwords and phrases? Constantly. They are using heuristics without thinking. No different than someone stereotyping blacks.
So a consistent 40% with republi-con party identification? I'm not surprised. They really aren't -and can't- think(ing) about it.
Posted by phidipides at December 24, 2006 08:37 AMExcellent explanation, p-dip!
Posted by iamcoyote at December 24, 2006 08:57 AMToo many beers can lead to bad livers and lengthy posts.
Posted by TIKI AL at December 24, 2006 09:13 AMThe Republicans is the party of rich people and the party of white people who are not comfortable with the social and cultural dynamics of the post WWII years. It will remain their party for many years because there is no other party for them.
Posted by James E. Powell at December 24, 2006 09:20 AMSorry. "The Republicans are . . .
Posted by James E. Powell at December 24, 2006 09:21 AMToo many beers can lead to bad livers and lengthy posts.
And in the Chimporer's case, Korsakoff's Syndrome and confabulation.
You see, any analysis of....
Merry X-mas and a Happy Saturnalia!
Posted by phidipides at December 24, 2006 09:32 AMIn Johnson County Kansas the Republican precent chairmen secretly elected Kline (the AG of Kansas who had been resoundingly kicked out of office in November) to the county Prosecuting Attorney.
The uproar in the local paper has been astounding. Letters to the Editor - every day for the last week. Angry, furious, agitated. Several have said that they will change their party registration. I can't believe how long this has lasted, there were three more letters printed today! Normally when something causes uproar you see letters printed for a day or two, and the paper tries to print some from both side of the opinion. I can only believe that there have been tons of letters, running heavily against Kline. (Who is a certified wing nut who spent the last four years harrassing Planned Parenthood and did nothing else.)
Posted by JWC at December 24, 2006 10:12 AMThe Republican Party is funded by and represents concentrated corporate/capital interests which manipulate and exploit the prejudices of stubborn, stupid, "religious" white people in order to achieve power to carry out its corrupt special interest schemes. Its 35% of the electorate are committed and on board for life, oblivious to the manifest failures and catastrophes generated by it.
There is nothing about that dynamic that's going to change anytime soon, and phid has elaborately sketched out how its absurd "principles" operate with the vast bulk of obstinate, ill-informed, essentially authoritarian, white "conservatives".
It's a very, very resistent little bacillus. Even if it transforms into a much more clearly regional political phenomenon, our anti-democratic constitution will render it an obstacle to actual progress and the public good for generations.
Because one wing of the party cares principally about their own financial interest, while the other wing cares principally about hatred of the nontraditional "other", it will remain a corrupt, backward looking, reactionary fact of American life, utterly unreformable, whatever catastrophe(s) envelope us in the coming decade.
Posted by euzoius at December 24, 2006 10:19 AMBig business won't hesitate for a minute to drop the current gang completely in the WH if the US invades Iran.
Why? The price of gas that consumers and businesses pay will go up significantly. And Big Business will feel it.
Then it will be completely over and done for Dick and George.
Posted by Alex at December 24, 2006 10:25 AMWhat's left of my sympathy for the Repub's who forgive Bush sees the Bush followers as those who think if they lose their lockstep with Bush somehow they will have to give up their very identity; the things that the Repub platform in its entirety stand for they see being literally replaced - to become pro-choice, gay lifestyle embracing, Muslim loving, etc. Somehow this strange perspective has evolved where leaving Bush's side means giving themselves over to the Pagans...it's just so strange that they can't single Bush & Co out as endangering not protecting the very essence of their beliefs.
"The Party of the rich", let see the GOP lost 12 percent in the November vote of people making over $100,000. Of people making less than $15,000 a year, the GOP lost only 3 percent from the 2004 vote. I guess we just didn't pander to the rich enough huh? Look another way, the past chairman of Goldman-Sachs is Governor Corzine of New Jersey. You recall them, the 93% profit Goldman-Sachs. The best Governor money can buy is Corzine.
I remember reading here the gas companies were reducing the price of gas to secure the election in November for the President's Party. When the 10.4 billion profit for ExxonMobil was released while the price fell so dramatically sure showed differently. I guess Democrats would have liked them to break their record of a year ago. Shatter it with 20 billion in profit and keep the price high. The other gas companies followed suit with ExxonMobil too.
Phid, we learn to be Republican's by watching our parents, from our parents. We learned many of our morals and character developement from our parents. Sure, we may sow some wildness in our twenties from time to time, but we will come to our senses and return the the person our parents raised. We change some of the bad characteristics our parents may have exhibited, racism, bigotry, etc. to become better people, better Republicans. Our Party ID is a lot deeper.
A better reason for stronger Party ID may be the Roe effect. Democrats abort more babies than Republicans do. The rate difference is a full .5%. Over time, it makes a significant difference. 2.2% verses a 1.7% rate. We're making more Republicans than you are Democrats. 1994 was the first election where the Roe effect showed itself to the masses. One full voting generation of abortions. This November's vote totals show a lack of involvement. Your press suppressed the vote by all the totally bad news. Lots of good news out there not ever reported. Saved many of the stories for after the vote.
The reason people become Republican and stay that way is education, life experience, and hard work. That's also why they're more charitable with their time and money than Democrats.
Posted by muckdog at December 24, 2006 03:23 PMThe Pew chart that you show doesn't show the percent of people who identify themselves Republican or Democrat, just how many Republicans and how many Democrats are happy. It was obviously a seasonable poll question - because this is the season to be merry after all.
That said, Republicans are happier because they are a) richer, b) less worried about the economy, c) don't believe in global warming so they think things are peachy, or d) think that Bush has a plan to achieve victory in Iraq? And Democrats are less happy because they might actually worry about the future? Seems plausible to me.
And BTW: those pesky independents are even glummer than the Democrats.
Posted by Mary at December 24, 2006 03:51 PMThe reason people become Republican and stay that way is education, life experience, and hard work. That's also why they're more charitable with their time and money than Democrats.
Muck, The only one I'll give you is education. That is because like peter says, parents. Basically repuke parents have more money, which enables their children (a majority) to go to the best schools.
I'll match my life experience of hard work, charitable time and money with yours. You might get me on the money, but if time was relayed into money, I'm sure I will prove you wrong.
peter, Another thing happened around Roe that could have had a profound influence on the Nation; the Vietnam War ended. It left a bad taste in people's mouths for years to come.
The Dems and Liberals have learned from Vietnam; never knock the soldier again. Most enlistee's are looking for a way to get ahead in life. It's not their choice when a loser comes along and sends them on a fool's errand!
Have a Merry Christmas.
The conservatives that I grew up with and respected were small government and fiscally responsible, and shared nothing with the ass clowns that have dragged their party and country down the crapper.
Why do trolls still support them? I forgot, they get paid time and one half to blog bullshit on Holidays. Expect more of the same tomorrow.
Posted by TIKI AL at December 24, 2006 07:15 PMYour right TIKI, if it's double time, muck is working it!
I'm sure bagley will show up tomorrow.
Posted by Seven of Six at December 24, 2006 07:19 PM"The reason people become Republican and stay that way is education, life experience, and hard work. That's also why they're more charitable with their time and money than Democrats."
Posted by muckdog
LOL
I know that's what the chart says, and the poll I cite from USA today asks for perception of confidence, not ID.
Both are in the high 30's. It's the same thing every time across a wide spectrum of questions, issues and yes, party ID: the answer is always in the high 30's.
That's the republican base, 36-39%. Mary is correct, though, I should have found the precise voter ID chart, sorry.
Posted by paradox at December 24, 2006 07:59 PMMerry Christmas 7 of 6 and to all you fine folks!
Posted by peter at December 24, 2006 08:22 PMOur Party ID is a lot deeper.
You proved my thesis with your statements.
The reason people become Republican and stay that way is education, life experience, and hard work. That's also why they're more charitable with their time and money than Democrats.
Pretty neat response if any of it had a basis in fact.
I'm sure bagley will show up tomorrow.
Nah. He is celebrating the birth of jesus by trying to one-up other people on what he spent for presents.
Posted by phidipides at December 24, 2006 08:51 PMcast not pearls before swine..that's how i feel about republicans..anyone behind this president at this point is a sick fuck..real sick..worthy of medication..not dialogue..havin said that merry christmas to all
Posted by dennis at December 25, 2006 03:51 AM"Your press suppressed the vote by all the totally bad news."
That's a good one pete. The war is just going great. How about that school we painted?
Nice to hear you became like your parents, racist and bigoted, but have since changed. How quaint.
In your honor, I'm going to abort a baby just for yor.
Happy Secular Merry Seasons Greetings.
Posted by mparker at December 25, 2006 06:57 AM
phid: "You see, any analysis of...." ( injest 6 beers and insert scout sized post here)
that was really funny, phid, just wanted you to know that I got it.
just wanted you to know that I got it.
(Big Grin) I had no doubt of that fact.
In your honor, I'm going to abort a baby just for yor.
Nahh. No need to do that. 30,000 children in the world die from malnutition and diarrhea every single day. And they (republi-cons) renamed American 'hunger' to 'very low food security' to cover their cuts in nutrition programs for pregnant mothers, children, low-income and the elderly. Hell, you cut nutrition to a pregnant woman they spontaneously abort like all get out.
People like peter need the abortion rhetoric to cover the fact that they support not caring for humans at any level. It salves their conscience. Although I haven't found the passage in the Bible yet, it relates to who their jesus would have fucked over.
Posted by phidipides at December 25, 2006 09:13 AM"The reason people become Republican and stay that way is education, life experience, and hard work. That's also why they're more charitable with their time and money than Democrats."
Oh, please.
They also stay Republican because of their arrogance.
Posted by Judith at December 25, 2006 05:34 PM"Nice to hear you became like your parents, racist and bigoted, but have since changed. How quaint."
One an immigrant from Germany directly and the other also from Germany several generations removed from the Sturgess, SD area. Never learned bigotry nor racism. Wasn't a part of my household. You just must be mistaken. I guess that's part of your upbringing. My Sturgess grandfather worked in a granite quarry, the largest openface quarry in the world during his working life.
My church just took some 71 African children off the the streets. Provided milk to an entire school there. We've been to New Orleans to build houses. Been to Mexico to build houses. We've joined with a black inner city church to buy a new building and are in the process of upgrading it to the tune of $500K. We brought land to build a park in the middle of a poor neighborhood not a half mile from our church to provide a safe place for the children to play. Reached out to many other communities in the neighborhood and other cites accross America. So just call us uncharitable, go ahead. It just shows more of your upbringing.
The "Roe effect", look it up. Examine the numbers yourself. Don't just dismiss it out of hand.
Posted by peter at December 25, 2006 07:11 PMLOL - Well Peter, your not a Republican, your a Democrat. Who would have ever thunk it?
Posted by Judith at December 25, 2006 07:56 PMI don't mean to be a party pooper, but the poll that you linked to purporting to show the party ID breakdown over time of Republicans in the high 30's and Democrats in the low 30's, does not show party ID breakdown at all.
What is does show is, when you go back into the Pew article itself is that.. over the time covered, that a higher percentage of Republicans say they are happy than Democrats do. Say 37% of R's report themselves to be happy while only 31% of D's report that they are happy. That is what the chart measures,happiness, not party ID.
I quote the Pew article entitled "Are we Happy yet"
Political Party Affiliation
Some 45% of all Republicans report being very happy, compared with just 30% of Democrats and 29% of independents. This finding has also been around a long time; Republicans have been happier than Democrats every year since the General Social Survey began taking its measurements in 1972.
(This phrase links to)
Which is the chart you link to in your story. But as the title of the chart says
Republicans Happier Over the Years
Percentage Very Happy by Party Identification.
Indeed over time Democratic party ID has always been higher than Republican party ID; D's in the upper 30's and R's in the lower 30's for decades past. For example, in the Feb 2006 Pew Poll the breakdown was 34%D and 30%R.
http://www.mysterypollster.com/main/2005/03/realignment_or_.html
So if Republican party ID goes down to to the low 30's, well that is where it usually is. The 37% happy with Dubya include some Ind.'s and a dollop of Dems. If Republican ID goes to the 20's then that would be a historic shift of long reaching significance.
Posted by debcoop at December 25, 2006 11:47 PM