In other words, we are fucked. Someone, please give me a reason to vote in 2008.
Posted by Judith at February 3, 2007 04:30 PMthe chance of Congress authorizing military action against Iran is zero
To which Pacemaker Dick says, "So what?! Go fuck yourselves." Authorization, schmauthorization.
Seriously, think about it: even if the Cheney administration thinks the War Powers Resolution applies to them (and they don't), that only requires them to get Congress's OK after 60 days.
<Cheney>
We'll totally have Iran finished off in sixty days...the only reason Iraq didn't work out that way is cause the fucking State Department [rolls eyes; jerkoff motion] somehow couldn't believe that Chalabi was the way to go.
</Cheney>
In recent days, we have heard the word "embolden" bandied about. Let's bandy it a bit more.
If Democrats do not pull out all the stops on the President's war in Iraq and his build-up in preparation for an attack on Iran, it is the President and the Republicans who will be emboldened. The Republican plans to filibuster in order to stop a tepid resolution offered by the Democratic Party is a clear enough sign that Republicans have learned nothing from the midterm elections if only because they see the Dems didn't learn anything either.
It is the Republicans who are emboldened now, and it is this history that they and others like them will read in the future when pendulum of power swings back in their favor. It will be clearer than ever before that Congress is not only weak, but irrelevant to the expansion of Executive Power.
At this point, I can only hope something very large and ugly condenses out of the Libby investigation--something nobody suspected--that will finally, at long last, stir the States or the Congress to do what it should have already done: impeach. Impeach and cauterize the wound.
Posted by gtash at February 3, 2007 05:14 PMLet's be clear -- the chance of Congress authorizing military action against Iran is zero.
As you indicated, that's not true. All the leading Democrats (even Feingold) have spoken belligerently against Iran, the media is beating the war drums and the American public thinks that Iran is a major threat.
The current US government wants to whack Iran mainly because Iran resists US hegemony in the Middle East. Also Iran supports Hezbollah and Hamas, democratic anti-Israeli forces in Lebanon and Ghaza which are considered to be terrorists. Israel is dead-set on attacking Iran, and Iran is a major energy source for US arch-rival China. Iran enjoys support from Russia, China, India and the non-aligned nations and is in a key geographical position between our bases in Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan, and most importantly the energy-rich Caspian basin. Finally, Iran is a major rival for influencing the Iraqi government.
Attendant to attacking Iran, Bush has several options regarding Congress. He can use the existing resolution or go to Congress again as he did in 2002 and get them to go along. They probably would. He has a third option, which I think is more probable, and that is to precipitate a Gulf of Tonkin type situation. We no doubt have special ops personnel in Iran right now, along with MKO Iranian dissident terrorists. There could be an incident involving one or more of our ships which would absolutely guarantee congressional concurrence on a war resolution--one is probably already drafted and in Cheney's desk drawer.
Secretary Gates has said that the two nuclear aircraft carrier groups, including fifty warships, are not in the Persian Gulf over the nuke or IED issues. They're there merely to demonstrate US hegemony in the Gulf, he says. Just peacefully steaming around in a big lake (nearly, with only the narrow Strait of Hormuz as an exit) next to Iran. Perfect for the Gulf of Tonkin scenario, or . . ?
Posted by Don Bacon at February 3, 2007 05:33 PMSenator Clinton won't run out use of force to stop 'pro-terrorist' Iran
John Byrne
Published: Saturday February 3, 2007
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At a speech Friday to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) said "no option can be taken off the table" when dealing with Iran, RAW STORY has learned.
Come on folks let's vote for Hillary now. She'll pull the trigger too.
Posted by peter at February 3, 2007 07:03 PMMore...
Clinton told some 1,700 AIPAC supporters that the US must take any step to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons.
"U.S. policy must be clear and unequivocal: We cannot, we should not, we must not permit Iran to build or acquire nuclear weapons," she said. "In dealing with this threat ... no option can be taken off the table."
"To deny the Holocaust places Iran's leadership in company with the most despicable bigots and historical revisionists," she added. Clinton excoriated the Iranian administration's "pro-terrorist, anti-American, anti-Israeli rhetoric."
"We need to use every tool at our disposal, including diplomatic and economic in addition to the threat and use of military force," she added.
Posted by peter at February 3, 2007 07:05 PMoops, pardon me for the above misplaced comments.
Posted by peter at February 3, 2007 07:14 PMOne thing is certain, we cannot allow this administration, to waddle us into another war, not even one in Iran, as simple as taking out their nuclear industry. These, people have no reality based concept of warfare, and we not only got to take this Iraqi' war, out of Bush' and companies hands, we must not allow Bush' and company any more war powers, and for the entire duration of Bushes' presidency.
Copyright 2007 Mark Robert Gates
please my blogs:
http://lokieponaphoenix.blogspot.com/
http://wellnessempowered.blogspot.com/
oops, pardon me for the above misplaced comments.
See. I told you Hilary was republi-con lite. All she has to do is talk about torture being necessary to secure the homeland, and spout some inanity about Islamofascists, and she is a done deal with the 'peter' crowd. I bet it never thought it would vote for a woman.
Posted by phidipides at February 3, 2007 07:44 PMThe Romans precipitated the war with Tarentum which led to the phrase "Pyrrhic victory" by sailing into the Gulf of Tarentum, which they were forbidden to do by treaty. When their ships were attacted by the Tarentines, the Romans responded that "we were'nt waging war, but merely sightseeing." My big fear is that Persian Gulf will turn out to be Farsi for Gulf of Tonkin.
Posted by Brian Boru at February 3, 2007 09:57 PMSo why did Bill stray, if Hill wants to use every tool at her disposal? Did she take some options off the table?
I'm sorry, I know I'm a dinosaur, but Hillary comes off really ridiculous trying to sound macho. It's farcical. I have no problem with a woman sounding like a woman. I think that we need a kinder, gentler US government, and we need more women in government to make that happen. Less testosterone and more feeling. Cynthia McKinney types, God love her. But this Hillary character is ridiculous. Somebody give her the hook. She's overplaying her role, chewing the scenery as they say. Get her the hell out. Golda Meir she isn't. Hey, Hill, you're not even Jewish! No kibbutz time! So leave already.
Posted by Don Bacon at February 3, 2007 10:19 PMIs it true that the only army to defeat Rome was Persian? Do they still reside in Iran?
Posted by TIKI AL at February 3, 2007 10:29 PMPeter just gave us every reason to not vote for Hillary. He supports her.
Posted by Judith at February 4, 2007 06:24 AMIf in this situation a Democratic Congress does not make clear to Escalatin' Dick that IT ALONE has the constitutional power to decide whether the nation will attack Iran, then the destruction of the Constitution will be complete, and they will be complicit in it.
If Congress would declare that Bush must obtain their authorization to attack Iran, and declare that any orders to do so without Congressional authorization are illegal, then the military would be on notice, and the Constitution could be preserved through subsequent impeachment should the executive madmen and their generals elect to carry out their new war.
Repubs are now threatening to not allow a vote even the slight confrontation of Nero that is being proposed. Their party has once again chosen party over country and party over constitution. The 2006 elections have had not a bit of influence on them and their Bush-enabling, despite losing Congress over it. Remarkable.
Posted by euzoius at February 4, 2007 07:28 AMMany are failing to really grasp the fact that the Congress will support an attack on Iran, my feeling is they would rather have Bush just go ahead and do it, because it will provide them the most political cover after the fact.
Posted by soccerdad at February 4, 2007 07:43 AMYes, the way the Dems won in 2006 was to lie low and let things get worse and they think that that will work again in 2008. They just won't take the responsibility that the Constitution gives them and are content to be a chorus of barking seals.
The Constitution:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States . . .To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water. . .To raise and support Armies. . .To provide and maintain a Navy. . .To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces. . .To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers. . .
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States. . .He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties. . .[AND THAT'S ESSENTIALLY IT FOR "EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE"!]
Posted by Don Bacon at February 4, 2007 08:56 AMObama should remind people that orders in the military chain of command are limited to lawful orders.
I don't think Bush and Cheney would politically survive more than a couple of resignations in the chain of command if the order to atack came down.
Posted by tryggth at February 4, 2007 09:04 AMfwiw, edwards showed some understanding of the complexity of iranian politics today on MTP, and insisted on talking to the iranians, but had to use that stupid "on the table" line, too.
OTOH, timmeh read an obama quote on iraq from '03 which made obama look really prescient.
Posted by benjoya at February 4, 2007 09:46 AMat least someone's trying to stop it.
On January 16, Congressman Peter DeFazio introduced a resolution with 18 Democratic co-sponsors, including the powerful chairman of the House Subcommittee for Defense Appropriations, John Murtha, declaring that Bush lacked the authority to take military action against Iran without congressional approval. Biden has since said he will introduce a similar measure in the Senate.Posted by benjoya at February 4, 2007 09:53 AMOn January 18, another bipartisan group, including Murtha and Republican Congressman Walter Jones, submitted a second resolution demanding that the president seek congressional authorization before initiating the use of force against Iran absent a "demonstrably imminent attack by Iran" on the US or its armed forces.
ha. digby agrees with me. i must be right.
Posted by benjoya at February 4, 2007 10:04 AMIt looks increasingly like the House is going to have to take the lead in confronting Deadeye Dick, as the corrupt, Bushco-enabling Repub senators are going to make that body impotent to deal with this Bushco-fomented constitutional crisis.
According to these Repub senate turds, an "up or down" vote on judicial extremist Janice Rogers-Brown was absolutely REQUIRED by the constitution, but not a vote on whether a foreign military occupation is supported by the senate....only in "conservative" wingnut land!
The Repubs are coming periously close to making it clear to Americans that our constitution can no longer function and cannot any longer be the basis of an effective government. This ancient document is essentially the only thing holding the diverse people and regions of this nation together.
Once the constitution has been shown to be bankrupt and no longer workable, there is no solid basis remaining for the union....act in haste, repent in leisure, Repub fools.
Posted by euzoius at February 4, 2007 10:30 AM"Once the constitution has been shown to be bankrupt and no longer workable," people like us better pack up and find a new Country to live in.
The Democrats are not gutless, or stupid, they just appear that way because they are OWNED by AIPAC.
This means that they have to conduct themselves in a manner that does not offend Israel.
Thats why they drive their grassrooots supporters nuts with their timidity and apparent lack of spine, they are far more afraid of AIPAC then they are of a few left wing bloggers or their grassroots constituents.
So Hilary leaves all options "on the table" because she cannot win the nomination, let alone the Presidency without the support of AIPAC - its that stark and that simple.
And almost no Democrat cab get re-elected without pledging support for israel.
P.S. You think the beating Jimmy Carter is getting from the Israeli lobby is coincidental? It's an object lesson designed to show any legislator breaks ranks and goes against Israel's wishes exactly what is in store for them.
Posted by walrus at February 4, 2007 03:16 PM